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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why developers don't allow us to build our character anymore ?

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56 posts found
  iixviiiix

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 509

 
OP  5/07/13 5:53:06 AM#1

Earn some stats when level up and build your character in your own way.

Equipment depend on stats.

 

Why they don't allow player to build our character anymore ?

I know that there still some game use that system , but why most MMOs out here don't use it ?

 

 

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1299

5/07/13 5:58:14 AM#2
Out of the recent MMOs, at least Path of Exile, GW2 and The Secret World allow you to allocate stats manually. Or do you mean classless systems? I think they're often avoided for balance reasons and to make builds more different.
  Smikis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/27/04
Posts: 1073

5/07/13 6:00:36 AM#3
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance
  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

5/07/13 6:03:05 AM#4

many feel variation in balance is directly proportional to variation in the characters themselves

 

  thecapitaine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 392

5/07/13 6:11:25 AM#5
It's easier to design around a system with fewer unknowns and limiting what can be done with stats is one way devs simplify things.  Plus, a lot of new players find themselves baffled by the options and unintentionally gimp themselves as they level a character, especially when the game's systems are somewhat opaque.  Even a relatively straightforward game like Champion's Online suffered from a lot of gimped avatars (and complaints) back when it was P2P.  The superstat point allocation system along with power choices and interactions made for a sizable group of people who didn't even know where to start in building a remotely optimal hero.
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1878

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

5/07/13 6:13:38 AM#6
Originally posted by Smikis
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance

tell that to an RPG player :)

 

we handled them for ages. yes, you don't get perfect balance.... but hell

name one balanced mmo.

 

you CAN NOT BALANCE mmos. 

pong was balanced.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/07/13 6:16:24 AM#7
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Smikis
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance

tell that to an RPG player :)

 

we handled them for ages. yes, you don't get perfect balance.... but hell

name one balanced mmo.

 

you CAN NOT BALANCE mmos. 

pong was balanced.

Stop confusing stricht balance for "good enough" balance which can be achieved. This is of course ignoring purposeful perfect imbalance.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

5/07/13 6:18:23 AM#8
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Smikis
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance

tell that to an RPG player :)

 

we handled them for ages. yes, you don't get perfect balance.... but hell

name one balanced mmo.

 

you CAN NOT BALANCE mmos. 

pong was balanced.

it would also eliminate 50 percent of the content of most MMO's out there.. Gear Grind..

heavens forbid they should actually introduce actual game content to replace the gear chasing treadmill that everybody loves so much

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1878

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

5/07/13 6:20:15 AM#9
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Smikis
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance

tell that to an RPG player :)

 

we handled them for ages. yes, you don't get perfect balance.... but hell

name one balanced mmo.

 

you CAN NOT BALANCE mmos. 

pong was balanced.

Stop confusing stricht balance for "good enough" balance which can be achieved. This is of course ignoring purposeful perfect imbalance.

yes, and balance WAS good enough while we played those games with pen and paper. all of a sudden this system is not working anymore? doesn't sound legit to me.

you think we did not pvp? we did. also we had raids and dungeons if you wanna see it this way.

basically the only thing changed is the medium and the audience.

 

you CAN do stat based games.

you CAN give players a choice.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Quirhid

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5537

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

5/07/13 6:41:16 AM#10
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Livnthedream
 

yes, and balance WAS good enough while we played those games with pen and paper. all of a sudden this system is not working anymore? doesn't sound legit to me.

you think we did not pvp? we did. also we had raids and dungeons if you wanna see it this way.

basically the only thing changed is the medium and the audience.

 

you CAN do stat based games.

you CAN give players a choice.

PnP games have nothing to do with MMOs. And for the record, D&D was very poorly balanced.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/07/13 6:49:20 AM#11
Originally posted by Quirhid

PnP games have nothing to do with MMOs. And for the record, D&D was very poorly balanced.

^ This. Mages being stupidly op by the mid levels thanks to how they decided to do scaling and magic as a huge example.

While you most certainly CAN give players choices the sheer amount of polish demanded by the masses means they shouldn't.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Digirono

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/11
Posts: 87

5/07/13 6:52:40 AM#12
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Livnthedream
 

yes, and balance WAS good enough while we played those games with pen and paper. all of a sudden this system is not working anymore? doesn't sound legit to me.

you think we did not pvp? we did. also we had raids and dungeons if you wanna see it this way.

basically the only thing changed is the medium and the audience.

 

you CAN do stat based games.

you CAN give players a choice.

PnP games have nothing to do with MMOs. And for the record, D&D was very poorly balanced.

Hah..yeah. Look at 3.5, it's why everyone(Usually, not all the time) goes with some variant of "Magic-User". In 1st Ed. and 1st. Ed. AD&D it was a bit more balanced, but it wasn't "Perfect". ((Plus there weren't as many classes. 1st. Ed only had 3? Classes..Fighter, Magic-User, and Cleric, 1st Ed. AD&D put in 7 or 8 more)). There won't be a game with the perfect balance, someone will always find a way to imbalance it, doesn't matter if they allow us to allocate our own stats, or they give us a template and all we have to get is the gear and levels.

  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

5/07/13 6:54:57 AM#13
Originally posted by iixviiiix

Earn some stats when level up and build your character in your own way.

Equipment depend on stats.

 

Why they don't allow player to build our character anymore ?

I know that there still some game use that system , but why most MMOs out here don't use it ?

 

 

Because to have multiple build options you need to invest the time and effort to create differentiated options that are somewhat balanced and equivalent. Developers don't do that. They create one obviously preferred option and throw a bunch of crap in to pad out the rest. Players work this out and create cookie-cutter builds that get posted in the forums and suddenly a) everyone is running the cookie-cutter build, b) anyone not running the cookie-cutter build is under-performing c) anyone not using the cookie-cutter and not doing a MOUNTAIN of their own theorycrafting, experimentation and modelling is running the probably risk of gimping themselves.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7239

5/07/13 6:56:53 AM#14
Originally posted by iixviiiix

Earn some stats when level up and build your character in your own way.

Equipment depend on stats.

 

Why they don't allow player to build our character anymore ?

I know that there still some game use that system , but why most MMOs out here don't use it ?

 

 

Stop playing the cookie cutter, copy past games this site hypes. 

 

Wushu, there are no two characters the same. From their 17 or so profession to the  weapons they wield.

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  thecapitaine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 392

5/07/13 7:07:39 AM#15

Stop confusing stricht balance for "good enough" balance which can be achieved. This is of course ignoring purposeful perfect imbalance.

yes, and balance WAS good enough while we played those games with pen and paper. all of a sudden this system is not working anymore? doesn't sound legit to me.

you think we did not pvp? we did. also we had raids and dungeons if you wanna see it this way.

basically the only thing changed is the medium and the audience.

 

you CAN do stat based games.

you CAN give players a choice.

While I agree with the two points you underscore at the end, that it can be done, I also think your argument is a bit oversimplified.  As a rule, PnP games were cooperative rather than competitive.  Yes, PvP could arise, yest there could be dissent and conflict, but the games were designed to foster a group dynamic of working together to achieve a common goal, no matter the genre.  In practice, MMOs don't really work that way-- the moment a piece of rare loot drops in an average dungeon or a DPS/Healer/Tank doesn't "pull their weight" makes that abundantly clear.

 

A DM can allow the utmost freedom when there's a handful of players to shepherd along through an encounter and she can tailor the challenges to complement them.  Double, triple, quadruple the number and it's inevitable that any carefully crafted scenario will be undone by one or two players who've built their characters in a way that trivializes the content.  Now expand that out to include hundreds or thousands of players with hundreds of thousands of unique builds and it's easy to see how that can be daunting for developers to guard against.  This is especially clear in an age where there are solid metrics that players can use to compare one person against another, something that just wasn't even a consideration back when a lot of us were enjoying tabletop games.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1612

5/07/13 7:11:05 AM#16
Originally posted by iixviiiix

Earn some stats when level up and build your character in your own way.

Equipment depend on stats.

 

Why they don't allow player to build our character anymore ?

I know that there still some game use that system , but why most MMOs out here don't use it ?

 

 

-Studies reveal it is cheaper to decide the path of the player for them by holding them on a leash.

-less (pvp)balancing issues with less templates.

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1266

5/07/13 7:43:03 AM#17
Because players have become a bunch of babies...   crying that everything must be perfectly equal.
  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2571

5/07/13 7:51:43 AM#18
Originally posted by iixviiiix

Earn some stats when level up and build your character in your own way.

Equipment depend on stats.

 

Why they don't allow player to build our character anymore ?

I know that there still some game use that system , but why most MMOs out here don't use it ?

 

 

Because WoW doesn't let you and all MMOs just copy WoW.

 

Also, any chance at failure is removed, hence why all MMOs are so boring now.

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2527

5/07/13 7:53:43 AM#19
Originally posted by Smikis
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance

How would it be bad? Please explain, I for one enjoy figuring out new builds and not being able to pick my stats means no freedom in builds, all are the same of that class.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  NL-Rikkert

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 121

Currently playing:Mount & Blade,Smite,Chivalry MW,LoL

5/07/13 7:54:23 AM#20
Originally posted by Thane
Originally posted by Smikis
well choosing stats would be bad for any mmo balance

tell that to an RPG player :)

 

we handled them for ages. yes, you don't get perfect balance.... but hell

name one balanced mmo.

 

you CAN NOT BALANCE mmos. 

pong was balanced.

Lol no you cannot balance a MMO , but devs still try, because they don't want one player ganking all other players in their game due to a certain build. Of course this all fails time and time again. As a RPG player I love more freedom and control over my character, but this would leave some people without a brain clueless on how to play.

And no game is balanced really, of course they can be somewhat if all players have to exact same abilities. Though even in that case one of those players will have superior reflexes or better insight, thus making him/her unbalanced compared to their opponent. 

STOOPID
When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

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