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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Should we stop buying MMORPGs, and just wait til they go F2P?

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85 posts found
  Sulaa

Elite Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 897

5/05/13 10:08:58 AM#21

None of mainstream mmorpg released in last 5 years had an overall game concept&design that would make it's survival as p2p possible.    I don't like to even play (not to mention buy) mmorpg's that don't have long-term stable p2p potential - so I've just completly stopped playing any mmorpg's.

For those people that simply look for a mmorpg to play for a while and that don't mind microtransactions - yes waiting till it get f2p / freemium or b2p+cash shop  is definately viable and good strategy.  Few upcoming mmorpg's also don't have design that would allow them to survive as p2p games - at least from public available info.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6751

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/05/13 10:23:55 AM#22

Well you mean cash shop,they are never free.They soon become a partial game depending on how much you pay.

Personally i have m,atured beyond the phase when i was young and would buy every single new game that came out.

Now i look for a solid game and i expect a sub based game becuase that woudl tell me they have confidence in the quality of their game.If a game even smells of cheap quality, then i stay away ,i know it will; end up cash shop.

What really bothers me is that more and more developers are designing their games cheaper with full intention of going cash shop.Everything from lower end graphics,no insides of buildings,no movers,no dsepth to combat or crafting,missing content,empty worlds phasing in,low quality visuals example graphic quality is hued at a very short distance  to keep the bandwidth down ect ect.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Divion

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/09/10
Posts: 386

Those that never took a chance, never had a chance -

 
OP  5/05/13 10:48:15 AM#23

So, what kind of game would survive as P2P?

 

TERA/AION ~ All amazing games, i don't think it's the titles, and games // Sure some just plain out suck, and shouldn't even have been published, and/or developed.

 

But lets face it, the industry is too big now, there is too many options, i just don't think the notion of P2P is workable except in the most extreme of cases (WoW). 

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2441

World > Quest Progression

5/05/13 10:48:19 AM#24
No, I feel my time has a price associated with it even if... especially if it's my free time. If I see an MMO I'd want to play I have no problem paying 60.00 for it and if it turns out to be one month of entertainment so be it. I've probably spent at least 40-60 hours playing, that's cheap entertainment!

If I play for a whole year? 225/365 even if I play an average of an hour a day is .62. Again, really cheap entertainment. Plus, it's not like you are getting all the sub features for free anyhow. Most have some things locked away for micro translations.
  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1892

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

5/05/13 10:50:24 AM#25
Originally posted by Divion

Check out this article : http://www.examiner.com/article/don-t-buy-that-wait-the-smart-guide-to-mmorpgs

 

It claims that most MMORPGS being released now, have a short fuse til they just become free anyways, and you lose out on your box purchase, and subs.

 

I tend to agree, it seems like P2P is basiclly dead, companies are making more off Freemium.

 

What say you?

real works wants to be payed.

secret blown. i know :)

 

anyway, they all need to make money one way or the other, and usualy the p2p mmos had far more content than the f2p ones (not all of them tho obviously, both sides got bad examples).

 

i don't think p2p is dead, actually i'd rather go with mark jacobs statement and say f2p is a "hype" that will hold some time, but not forever

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2441

World > Quest Progression

5/05/13 11:02:25 AM#26
Aion and TERA are great examples of mostly cosmetic items and getting the "game" for free. There are a few things to mention though.

First is that you will not get updates nearly as much as P2P. WoW, Rift, EvE, etc. release content and make improvements on a regular basis. This is no surprise since the last NC quarterly showed NA Aion as a sliver of revenue compared to thier other games.

Second is what you done across if you DO decide to spend in the cash shop. In Aion you pay to rent some cosmetic stuff for 30 days. Remember tht issue about not wanting to feel like you HAVE to log in?

I'm glad both models are available so people can chose what they want. I however think P2P is well worth it if you like the game. I guess it also depends on how long you plan to be there. If someone likes to "hop" sub games aren't feasible.
  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3736

RIP City of Heroes!

5/05/13 1:00:07 PM#27
Originally posted by jdnewell

I personally like the P2P model. I would rather pay a set $15 a month and get the whole game rather than be nickle and dimed the entire game.

I do see the trend of F2P becoming more and more popular tho. I dont play F2P MMOs personally but it seems alot of people like that model. More power to them I say, if the business model works and the consumers spend money and its profitable then have at it. I just wont be on the F2P bandwagon.

If you think the average person actually saves money by F2P over P2P then your misinformed. The reason these companies push out F2P games quickly is to cash in and make a quick buck. Not because they think it will save you money or offer a product with some longevity and retain players.

But then again maybe I am just old and dont understand this F2P craze =)

 P2P also keeps out some of the riffraff

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1867

5/05/13 1:50:16 PM#28
Originally posted by Divion

Check out this article : http://www.examiner.com/article/don-t-buy-that-wait-the-smart-guide-to-mmorpgs

 

It claims that most MMORPGS being released now, have a short fuse til they just become free anyways, and you lose out on your box purchase, and subs.

 

I tend to agree, it seems like P2P is basiclly dead, companies are making more off Freemium.

 

What say you?

 

 

It probably isn't a bad idea, but you need to realize that a P2P game that has switched to the cash shop model is a game living on borrowed time.   People didn't stay and play for a reason and the switch to the cash shop model probably didn't help to change the gameplay for the better.

 

LOTRO is a perfect example.  Server levels are already back to pre-cash shop levels and now the publisher is making 80% less revenue than when it was P2P.   How much longer do you think the servers will be running before WB shuts it down?

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

5/05/13 3:05:08 PM#29

You can do whatever you want.  I on the other hand dont have a problem paying for things in this world that I enjoy.  Dont lump me into your "we" need shit for free crowd mentality.  Too many people looking for a free ride or think that selective purchases will get it done, dont understand the difference between a P2P with sub game that gives you everything and the true problem with cash shops in game. 

The impact of the delivery of features and items since the advent of F2P further degrades the value of our hobby.  Its simple math and the math shows that dollar for dollar when looking at all availble content and items, F2P games cost at least 4x their P2P counter parts.

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

5/05/13 3:07:02 PM#30
You should stop buying anything until it is reviewed at least a few times. Doesn't just go for games.
  Four0Six

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1098

5/05/13 3:09:21 PM#31

I would happily pay for a game that filled my desires.

I currently only kick around in a couple F2P, TSW and Tera, and the 1 B2P GW2. Not because I dislike the sub model, but because there isnt anything worth paying for, in my opinion.

If and when someone launches something I find worth paying for Im in. But not before it launches.

  User Deleted
5/05/13 3:14:43 PM#32

Players love the competition launch day brings... hundreds if not thousands of players all in the same zone doing quests, pvp, what have you.  Waiting until they are F2P means you're going to play the game pretty much solo until you hit max level... assuming that anyone is even still playing when you get there.

 

I think that's what most people pay for with their box price... an opportunity to play during that initial rush.  GW2 on launch day was incredible.  Starting GW2 today isn't any where near close.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19120

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

5/05/13 3:22:57 PM#33
Originally posted by Divion

So, what kind of game would survive as P2P?

 

TERA/AION ~ All amazing games, i don't think it's the titles, and games // Sure some just plain out suck, and shouldn't even have been published, and/or developed.

 

But lets face it, the industry is too big now, there is too many options, i just don't think the notion of P2P is workable except in the most extreme of cases (WoW). 

Well, I'll agree, titles at the top of their design niche such as WOW and EVE can justtify a sub fee, while most of the rest of the substandard clones might as well go F2P to ensure greater longevity.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3275

Poacher killer.

5/05/13 4:02:38 PM#34
Originally posted by thinktank001
Originally posted by Divion

Check out this article : http://www.examiner.com/article/don-t-buy-that-wait-the-smart-guide-to-mmorpgs

It claims that most MMORPGS being released now, have a short fuse til they just become free anyways, and you lose out on your box purchase, and subs.

I tend to agree, it seems like P2P is basiclly dead, companies are making more off Freemium.

What say you?

It probably isn't a bad idea, but you need to realize that a P2P game that has switched to the cash shop model is a game living on borrowed time.   People didn't stay and play for a reason and the switch to the cash shop model probably didn't help to change the gameplay for the better.

LOTRO is a perfect example.  Server levels are already back to pre-cash shop levels and now the publisher is making 80% less revenue than when it was P2P.   How much longer do you think the servers will be running before WB shuts it down?

You make a good point. Additionally, Turbine's licensing agreement expires next year. It will be very interesting to see how things unfold. 

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

5/05/13 6:03:31 PM#35

I have already been doing that for a while.

With so much free MMO entertainment, i have stopped, and probably would never pay a sub again.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2779

5/05/13 6:07:24 PM#36
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by jdnewell

I personally like the P2P model. I would rather pay a set $15 a month and get the whole game rather than be nickle and dimed the entire game.

I do see the trend of F2P becoming more and more popular tho. I dont play F2P MMOs personally but it seems alot of people like that model. More power to them I say, if the business model works and the consumers spend money and its profitable then have at it. I just wont be on the F2P bandwagon.

If you think the average person actually saves money by F2P over P2P then your misinformed. The reason these companies push out F2P games quickly is to cash in and make a quick buck. Not because they think it will save you money or offer a product with some longevity and retain players.

But then again maybe I am just old and dont understand this F2P craze =)

 P2P also keeps out some of the riffraff

Hmmmm, the WoW community is famously toxic and the only time Eve makes news is when someone is a douche.

 

I don't see required payment being a barrier to general asshattery.

Your opinion and my opinion differ.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  reeereee

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 708

5/05/13 6:19:00 PM#37
Originally posted by Divion

However BioShock doesn't require a subscription to play, and it has a definitive conclusions.

 

In the world of P2P MMORPGS, if you buy a box ~ 60 bucks, and sub for a year (11 months paid, 1 month free) That is 165 bucks @ 15 dollars a month + box costs of an average 60 bucks, so 225 dollars to play the game for a year.

If on the game's launch anniversy it goes Free to Play, then you lost EVERYTHING you invested, as a new player can spend the treshold amount, and have basiclly the same account status as you, minus the progression you made.

 

You are comparing apples to waffles.

If you're willing to wait a year to play the game you really want to play just to save $18.75 a month then you are either increadably patient or very poor. 

 

Being able to play for a year ahead of other people gives you a huge amount of experience and resources over newer players, how much of an advantage that is largely depends on the game.

 

I mean serriously... lets compare value here for a $225 years head start on a subscription mmo turn f2p to the Neverwinter $200 founders pack that gave you like... a six day head start?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

5/05/13 6:23:47 PM#38
Originally posted by snapfusion

You can do whatever you want.  I on the other hand dont have a problem paying for things in this world that I enjoy.  Dont lump me into your "we" need shit for free crowd mentality.  Too many people looking for a free ride or think that selective purchases will get it done, dont understand the difference between a P2P with sub game that gives you everything and the true problem with cash shops in game. 

 

You assume, erroneously, everyone needs "everything" in a game to have fun.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/05/13 6:24:49 PM#39
Originally posted by Divion

What say you?

Money, mouth, juxtaposition.

(Translated: A lot of people talk incessantly about how miserable they are, but balk when faced with the possibility of moving on. 'Just stop buying them' sounds like wonderful advice, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Don't use that 'addiction' word, but..."all talk, no leave".)

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19849

5/05/13 6:24:58 PM#40
Originally posted by Ghavrigg
I personally think people should start paying again and stop letting the genre go F2P. F2P will forever be an awful model, in my eyes.

I personally think that you have no business telling others what to do .. and not that what you think matters a bit.

The market does not decide on a direction based on what YOU think is awful.

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