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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The Sandbox Resurrection?

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59 posts found
  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 783

5/03/13 3:37:10 PM#21
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Originally posted by darker70
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Sandbox games are dead ... wow and the 90% of the gaming market out there has done way to much damage...

Damn I just wasted 2 years following and been involved with The Repopulation one of the most anticipated games of 2013.

Planet Explorers KS took 137k  and hit Greenlight in record time with 78% up vote.

Yeah think I will now delete both accounts as thanks to your sage wisdom these games are dead as obviously non linear based game play is a dead duck, but wait isn't Skyrim a sandbox especially modded on PC yep better delete one of the biggest games ever to hit the PC don't want any of that sandbox in my PC as it's as dead as a dodo. 

Oh please stop tickleling me... do tell 1 just 1 succesful sandbox game other then eve online over the past years ?

Right... i know nostalgia will kick in for some people and i DO HOPE we do get a decent sandbox out there but as long as the leading gaming market promotes > press 1 + 2 + 3 and u win ... not having high hopes is what i am trying to say.

Both UO and SWG were successful in their times.  

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  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 783

5/03/13 3:40:25 PM#22
Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox so it really formed my perception of what a MMO should be.   Over the years I've played almost every mainstream MMO released but always missed my first MMO.

Recently, I got the opportunity to go back and play my first MMO in it's original state (can't say anymore than that due to forum rules) and I was completely bored within a couple of hours.

I think that a lot of people have fond memories of the older, more sandbox style games not because they were good but because the MMO genre and basic concepts were new and exciting to us at that time.

The latest focus on resurrecting the sandbox style games is coming from two sources, indie devs who are trying to recapture the magic of the older style MMO's (Repopulation, Divergence, CU) and some larger developers who are looking cash in on the current desperation of players who are sick of themeparks. 

Either way, it won't fill the void that many of us have, not because the games will be bad but because there will be nothing really new about them except maybe the graphics.

 

 

Thats why I could only play UO for a few hours was because it still has the old rule sets.  If we were to change the old SandBox rule sets to todays standards we would see a return to sandbox as long as some themepark is involved.  Problem is too mand Sandbox developers are going with old PVP centric sandbox rules.  Thats why 2013 games will basically just be a year to build til the next generation of MMO

 

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  Ice-Queen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2463

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

5/03/13 3:44:45 PM#23
I'd love an modernized version of Ultima Online and Asheron's Call...I'd play the hell out of them :)

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1873

5/03/13 3:45:09 PM#24
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by darker70
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Sandbox games are dead ... wow and the 90% of the gaming market out there has done way to much damage...

Damn I just wasted 2 years folllowing and been involved with The Repopulation one of the most anticipated games of 2013.

Planet Explorers KS took 137k  and hit Greenlight in record time with 78% up vote.

Yeah think I will now delete both accounts as thanks to your sage wisdom these games are dead as obviously non linear based game play is a dead duck, but wait isn't Skyrim a sandbox especially modded on PC yep better delete one of the biggest games ever to hit the PC don't want any of that sandbox in my PC as it's as dead as a dodo. 

2013 is going to be the worst year for MMOs.  The problem is the current return to Sandbox is trying to use old school Sandbox rules.  Developers do not understand that will not work.  EQNEXT and TITAN will change that in 2014.

Are you talking about Blizzard's next MMO? Where on earth did you hear that it would be a sanbox, or varriation of?

Just watch on Nov 5th and 6th at Blizzcon.  

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzards-project-titan-rumors-facts/

 

Put together the little that is known of Titan like the facts that they will have a dual life plus that housing will be in games with vendors.  

Then take the fact that EQ2 and WOW are both themepark and designed the same way in 2004 its not hard to image or figure out that Blizzard and SOE are going to be releasing the same type of MMO as they did before in 2004.  Just think about it.  They know that Themepark will not work.  

Lol, im sorry, but that is wishfull thinking at its finest....literally nothing released or rumared thus far implies it will be a sandbox, or even close to one.

BTW, the only "housing" they even mentioned is "guild" housing, which also does not indicate sandbox in the least.....Rift has player housing, and is by no means a related to a sandbox.

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 783

5/03/13 3:47:35 PM#25
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by darker70
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Sandbox games are dead ... wow and the 90% of the gaming market out there has done way to much damage...

Damn I just wasted 2 years folllowing and been involved with The Repopulation one of the most anticipated games of 2013.

Planet Explorers KS took 137k  and hit Greenlight in record time with 78% up vote.

Yeah think I will now delete both accounts as thanks to your sage wisdom these games are dead as obviously non linear based game play is a dead duck, but wait isn't Skyrim a sandbox especially modded on PC yep better delete one of the biggest games ever to hit the PC don't want any of that sandbox in my PC as it's as dead as a dodo. 

2013 is going to be the worst year for MMOs.  The problem is the current return to Sandbox is trying to use old school Sandbox rules.  Developers do not understand that will not work.  EQNEXT and TITAN will change that in 2014.

Are you talking about Blizzard's next MMO? Where on earth did you hear that it would be a sanbox, or varriation of?

Just watch on Nov 5th and 6th at Blizzcon.  

 

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzards-project-titan-rumors-facts/

 

Put together the little that is known of Titan like the facts that they will have a dual life plus that housing will be in games with vendors.  

Then take the fact that EQ2 and WOW are both themepark and designed the same way in 2004 its not hard to image or figure out that Blizzard and SOE are going to be releasing the same type of MMO as they did before in 2004.  Just think about it.  They know that Themepark will not work.  

Lol, im sorry, but that is wishfull thinking at its finest....literally nothing released or rumared thus far implies it will be a sandbox, or even close to one.

BTW, the only "housing" they even mentioned is "guild" housing, which also does not indicate sandbox in the least.....Rift has player housing, and is by no means a related to a sandbox.

Just wait until Nov at Blizzcon.  Blizzard is going to do what SOE does.  WoW and EQ2 are themepark games released one after the other because they knew what each other was doing and were competing head to head.  Dont think it will happen again.  Wait and see.  

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  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 5244

5/03/13 3:51:33 PM#26
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58

Just watch on Nov 5th and 6th at Blizzcon.  

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzards-project-titan-rumors-facts/

Put together the little that is known of Titan like the facts that they will have a dual life plus that housing will be in games with vendors.  

Then take the fact that EQ2 and WOW are both themepark and designed the same way in 2004 its not hard to image or figure out that Blizzard and SOE are going to be releasing the same type of MMO as they did before in 2004.  Just think about it.  They know that Themepark will not work.  

Lol, im sorry, but that is wishfull thinking at its finest....literally nothing released or rumared thus far implies it will be a sandbox, or even close to one.

BTW, the only "housing" they even mentioned is "guild" housing, which also does not indicate sandbox in the least.....Rift has player housing, and is by no means a related to a sandbox.

This ^

Blizzard's legacy has been built off of their ability to copy other games, and polish the crap out of them. Thanks to WoW, they've essentially killed most of their pool to steal from. I don't think we're really going to see much original from WoW on the MMO front (which is what the genre needs). Heck, look at their last major announcement. People got all stoked for a new IP, and what they got was a Magic: The Gathering knock off centered around WoW.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3548

Hipster

5/03/13 3:53:33 PM#27
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by darker70
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Sandbox games are dead ... wow and the 90% of the gaming market out there has done way to much damage...

Damn I just wasted 2 years folllowing and been involved with The Repopulation one of the most anticipated games of 2013.

Planet Explorers KS took 137k  and hit Greenlight in record time with 78% up vote.

Yeah think I will now delete both accounts as thanks to your sage wisdom these games are dead as obviously non linear based game play is a dead duck, but wait isn't Skyrim a sandbox especially modded on PC yep better delete one of the biggest games ever to hit the PC don't want any of that sandbox in my PC as it's as dead as a dodo. 

2013 is going to be the worst year for MMOs.  The problem is the current return to Sandbox is trying to use old school Sandbox rules.  Developers do not understand that will not work.  EQNEXT and TITAN will change that in 2014.

Are you talking about Blizzard's next MMO? Where on earth did you hear that it would be a sanbox, or varriation of?

I heard it would be a loot centric raid endgame über themepark MMO, it will be a WoW killer.

  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1393

5/03/13 3:53:39 PM#28

I think it's just that after a few expensive failures, publishers realised copying WoW won't turn them into Blizzards, so they're looking for alternative ways to make MMOs. Customers are either tired of WoW or play WoW, but that's not new.

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3213

Veni, Vidi, Converti

5/03/13 3:56:33 PM#29

Sandbox = more diversity = a good thing. Themepark AAA one to rule them all is really bad for a lot of players even if many more still find that a suitable design.

 

  1. Darkfall UW
  2. Black Desert
  3. Greed Monger
  4. Project Theralon
  5. Repopulation
  6. Archage
  7. Starforge
  8. Origins of Malu
  9. Albion Online
  10. EQ Next
Also to categorise according to AAA Publisher and Smaller Independent Developer and the type of sandbox emphasis. Also different ""MMO models"":
 
  • Shroud of The Avatar - Portalarium Inc. (Richard Garriot)
  • Elite Dangerous - Frontier Developments (David Braben)
  • Star Citizen - Cloud Imperium (Chris Roberts)
Be interesting to enquire which features push towards higher possibilty of success (player reactions)?

 

  Arglebargle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1306

5/03/13 4:01:31 PM#30

I think a lot of MMO players underestimate the difficulty of setting up and running a decent sandbox game/world.   And you have to plan expenses for the amount of players you will likely attract.   Some of the sandbox templates are very niche in nature.  Not going to draw in tons of people, despite what you may hear.

 

Of course, the more different styles of sandbox there are, the more likely any individual will be able to find something they really like.   But expectations out of the gate may be a little too high.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

5/03/13 4:04:20 PM#31

waiting for archeage.

lets see :)

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 783

5/03/13 4:09:14 PM#32
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58

Just watch on Nov 5th and 6th at Blizzcon.  

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzards-project-titan-rumors-facts/

Put together the little that is known of Titan like the facts that they will have a dual life plus that housing will be in games with vendors.  

Then take the fact that EQ2 and WOW are both themepark and designed the same way in 2004 its not hard to image or figure out that Blizzard and SOE are going to be releasing the same type of MMO as they did before in 2004.  Just think about it.  They know that Themepark will not work.  

Lol, im sorry, but that is wishfull thinking at its finest....literally nothing released or rumared thus far implies it will be a sandbox, or even close to one.

BTW, the only "housing" they even mentioned is "guild" housing, which also does not indicate sandbox in the least.....Rift has player housing, and is by no means a related to a sandbox.

This ^

Blizzard's legacy has been built off of their ability to copy other games, and polish the crap out of them. Thanks to WoW, they've essentially killed most of their pool to steal from. I don't think we're really going to see much original from WoW on the MMO front (which is what the genre needs). Heck, look at their last major announcement. People got all stoked for a new IP, and what they got was a Magic: The Gathering knock off centered around WoW.

Thats why I am betting Titan will take a lot of EQNext's ideas and do them in their own way.  Thats exactly what happened in 2004 with EQ2 and WoW.  Its not hard to figure out they will do what other MMO games are doing just better.  What is the MMO genera doing now?  Sandbox\Hybrid Sandbox Themepark mmo.  What will Blizzard do, copy them and do it better than the rest.  Its hard to see them copying themselves. 

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  darker70

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 823

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

5/03/13 4:11:58 PM#33
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Originally posted by darker70
Originally posted by Filterheadz
Sandbox games are dead ... wow and the 90% of the gaming market out there has done way to much damage...

Damn I just wasted 2 years following and been involved with The Repopulation one of the most anticipated games of 2013.

Planet Explorers KS took 137k  and hit Greenlight in record time with 78% up vote.

Yeah think I will now delete both accounts as thanks to your sage wisdom these games are dead as obviously non linear based game play is a dead duck, but wait isn't Skyrim a sandbox especially modded on PC yep better delete one of the biggest games ever to hit the PC don't want any of that sandbox in my PC as it's as dead as a dodo. 

Oh please stop tickleling me... do tell 1 just 1 succesful sandbox game other then eve online over the past years ?

Right... i know nostalgia will kick in for some people and i DO HOPE we do get a decent sandbox out there but as long as the leading gaming market promotes > press 1 + 2 + 3 and u win ... not having high hopes is what i am trying to say.

 

Actually the only reason we have not seen many Mo sand box games is because they take ages to make and with as you say WOW  plagiarizing the genre,publishers saw this as the way to make money and with later F2P this method works really well as you can milk any poor sod dry with a cash shop or DLC.

Now we have smaller devs owning thier own IP's and taking their time as they are not rushed by the suits wanting the game out of the door making money, further more most if not all have integrity and will not kill their dream with a rip off cash shop as they have garnered trust over years with a community.

It was only after SOE killed the original SWG and lost most of it's player base,that was a major factor in the sandbox Mo dieing a death and that is why even now the biggest post on the Repop forums is the SWG refugee thread people want that style back,I missed out on all that  as I was in Eve for 3 years running a corp but having revisited SWG and wished I had been in SWG pre-CU as it was the defining game of it's generation but was killed through greed and no concern or respect for it's customers.

So if you include SWG-pre CU at the time was the most successfull Mo sandbox,but as I said Skyrim is a sandbox just like Oblivion and Morrowind three of the most noted games in history and all Sandbox based so pretty successfull in my book.

 

  danwest58

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 783

5/03/13 4:13:48 PM#34
Originally posted by Arglebargle

I think a lot of MMO players underestimate the difficulty of setting up and running a decent sandbox game/world.   And you have to plan expenses for the amount of players you will likely attract.   Some of the sandbox templates are very niche in nature.  Not going to draw in tons of people, despite what you may hear.

 

Of course, the more different styles of sandbox there are, the more likely any individual will be able to find something they really like.   But expectations out of the gate may be a little too high.

 

No the problem with Sandbox MMOs is they keep trying to take the old SWG, UO, EVE rulesets that do not work well for casual players.  Or they do what Mortal Online has done and make them harder core rulesets.  No one has tried to modernize the Sandbox Rule Set.  Dont believe me look ar Archage.  FFA PVP with FFA looting of a body on death.  Even if its not full loot it still old hardcore rules that casual players will not play by.  Its not hard to see.

SolidSteel Lodestone Forums We are recruiting the right players for our FC

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1873

5/03/13 4:48:45 PM#35
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58

Just watch on Nov 5th and 6th at Blizzcon.  

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzards-project-titan-rumors-facts/

Put together the little that is known of Titan like the facts that they will have a dual life plus that housing will be in games with vendors.  

Then take the fact that EQ2 and WOW are both themepark and designed the same way in 2004 its not hard to image or figure out that Blizzard and SOE are going to be releasing the same type of MMO as they did before in 2004.  Just think about it.  They know that Themepark will not work.  

Lol, im sorry, but that is wishfull thinking at its finest....literally nothing released or rumared thus far implies it will be a sandbox, or even close to one.

BTW, the only "housing" they even mentioned is "guild" housing, which also does not indicate sandbox in the least.....Rift has player housing, and is by no means a related to a sandbox.

This ^

Blizzard's legacy has been built off of their ability to copy other games, and polish the crap out of them. Thanks to WoW, they've essentially killed most of their pool to steal from. I don't think we're really going to see much original from WoW on the MMO front (which is what the genre needs). Heck, look at their last major announcement. People got all stoked for a new IP, and what they got was a Magic: The Gathering knock off centered around WoW.

Why would anyone have been excited for a TiTan announcement at the GDC? Blizzard literally said "We will be announcing something new, and it wont be Titan"....then a bunch of ppl complained that they got their hopes up for nothing once it wasnt titan that was announced lol

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1873

5/03/13 4:53:40 PM#36
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by danwest58

Just watch on Nov 5th and 6th at Blizzcon.  

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/blizzards-project-titan-rumors-facts/

Put together the little that is known of Titan like the facts that they will have a dual life plus that housing will be in games with vendors.  

Then take the fact that EQ2 and WOW are both themepark and designed the same way in 2004 its not hard to image or figure out that Blizzard and SOE are going to be releasing the same type of MMO as they did before in 2004.  Just think about it.  They know that Themepark will not work.  

Lol, im sorry, but that is wishfull thinking at its finest....literally nothing released or rumared thus far implies it will be a sandbox, or even close to one.

BTW, the only "housing" they even mentioned is "guild" housing, which also does not indicate sandbox in the least.....Rift has player housing, and is by no means a related to a sandbox.

This ^

Blizzard's legacy has been built off of their ability to copy other games, and polish the crap out of them. Thanks to WoW, they've essentially killed most of their pool to steal from. I don't think we're really going to see much original from WoW on the MMO front (which is what the genre needs). Heck, look at their last major announcement. People got all stoked for a new IP, and what they got was a Magic: The Gathering knock off centered around WoW.

Thats why I am betting Titan will take a lot of EQNext's ideas and do them in their own way.  Thats exactly what happened in 2004 with EQ2 and WoW.  Its not hard to figure out they will do what other MMO games are doing just better.  What is the MMO genera doing now?  Sandbox\Hybrid Sandbox Themepark mmo.  What will Blizzard do, copy them and do it better than the rest.  Its hard to see them copying themselves. 

To imply EQ2 or EQNext are in the same market position as EQ1 was when WoW was released, is quite frankly, the most far fetched thing I have ever read. You are literally ignoring everything that has been released and rumared thus far about Titan, and completely basing your view off of hugely far reaching self conclusions.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22251

5/03/13 5:45:18 PM#37
Originally posted by aesperus

Blizzard's legacy has been built off of their ability to copy other games, and polish the crap out of them. Thanks to WoW, they've essentially killed most of their pool to steal from. I don't think we're really going to see much original from WoW on the MMO front (which is what the genre needs). Heck, look at their last major announcement. People got all stoked for a new IP, and what they got was a Magic: The Gathering knock off centered around WoW.

They can copy non-MMOs. They are good at making fun, non-original games.

  Koranian

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/13
Posts: 2

5/04/13 12:41:40 AM#38

Playing a Sandbox MMO is more abot the players and the time they have to play them.. 

I love Sandbox MMO's where you can be what you want like in UO I could get by being a trader didn't have to get my hands dirty and fight monsters (although I did) the idea that you can make a life for your character is very appealing however that takes time.. Many people who play games want a quick escape something they can imerse themselves in at a moments notice and have some fun.. Sandboxes are not always "fun" for people because you have to work at them to make your own fun.. 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 5184

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/04/13 12:48:36 AM#39
Originally posted by emistz
 
What gives? Has the market for sandboxes suddenly exploded because people have grown tired of the same old same old theme park mmorpgs, or are investors all of the sudden taking a concerted gamble at a piece of the market that does not have the best track record?
 
What do you think?

themepark bubble burst.

 

or it quietly dried up. either way...there's no more room for so-so themeparks. so they're looking for other potential markets.

  krazeek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/13
Posts: 11

5/04/13 12:56:43 AM#40

Honestly, I think the entire MMO environment is drying up. Themepark games are losing subscribers because of the massive selection of similar games. There are a few sandpark games out there (like the joke known as Fallen Earth) but not enough to command a serious percentage of the playerbase. Many of the sandbox games out there are still suffering, but not nearly as bad as most themeparks (ATITD is lucky to have 500 players online at once, Eve is slowly losing players but that may change with the next expansion).

I dearly pray that some good sandbox, or even sandpark games come out in the near future. Right now, I'm watching Wildstar, and a few indie productions as well. I hope we can revive the spark that made MMOs great, even as I know that we can never return to the 'glory days' of MMOs.

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