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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Need your opinion... AIMed based abilities?

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90 posts found
  NegativeX

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 100

 
OP  5/03/13 10:16:25 AM#1

Wanted to get a general concensus as to what you all thought about AIMed based abilities?

Not every ability, just a select few, to where you can enter a seperate, free AIM mode. Or perhaps certain abilities that can be both? But you receive additional benefits to landing a spell, or shot in free AIM mode.

 

Thoughts?

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  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

5/03/13 10:49:01 AM#2

meh no

Archers complain for this type of thing, if they want it give it to them, but won't play an archer if I have to. In fast paced pvp game free aim archers going to get tore up.

edit for clarity.

Free aim is a type of target system you can do in an mmo (see darkfall), however mix and matching can and possibly will make balancing an even more headache that it already will with non mirrored classes.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1134

5/03/13 11:01:24 AM#3
Originally posted by NegativeX

Wanted to get a general concensus as to what you all thought about AIMed based abilities?

Not every ability, just a select few, to where you can enter a seperate, free AIM mode. Or perhaps certain abilities that can be both? But you receive additional benefits to landing a spell, or shot in free AIM mode.

I'd prefer not to have any reticle-targeting. Based on a recent thread here, the main issue people had with archers and targetting seemed to be with auto-firing bow shots not target lock itself. That concern can easily be eliminated by not having auto-firing bow shots rather than by having a different aiming system for archers. (DAOC didn't have auto-fire archery, so it's hardly necessary for an RvR MMO.) If the game absolutely must have reticle-aiming for archers and magic bolt casters, then it would definitely have to give a powerful damage bonus for those abilities in compensation. I'd rather just keep things simple and let all ranged abilities be performed using target locking.

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  TigsKC

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 139

5/03/13 11:09:02 AM#4

I think a mixture of ability types could work.

I would reserve this AIM-based attack for a few very-long range weapons/spells.  Things like an elite sniper attack.  Maybe in this AIM mode, you could increase your range by 25% and that could be used in special circumstances to pull/attack at a range of relative safety.  Or, it could simply provide some modifier (+ To Hit, - To Dodge) when a skill is aimed.

But, as a rule, I think this would make it hard on ranged classes if the primary combat moves require aiming.  However, some really prefer this.  We shall see.

 

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

5/03/13 11:09:40 AM#5
Without sounding like a conservative..  I am of the mindset of keeping FPS out of my MMO's.  I've tried it and just not as enjoyable as a traditional targetting system.  I'd like to see the option there for players that want it, but I personally don't want to be forced into it.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

5/03/13 11:12:16 AM#6
Originally posted by TigsKC

I think a mixture of ability types could work.

I would reserve this AIM-based attack for a few very-long range weapons/spells.  Things like an elite sniper attack.  Maybe in this AIM mode, you could increase your range by 25% and that could be used in special circumstances to pull/attack at a range of relative safety.  Or, it could simply provide some modifier (+ To Hit, - To Dodge) when a skill is aimed.

But, as a rule, I think this would make it hard on ranged classes if the primary combat moves require aiming.  However, some really prefer this.  We shall see.

 

I honestly don't think these types of systems work when ....

1) You have to be standing still to cast

2) casting isn't instant EVER

3) casts can be interuptted

I really have no idea with those 3 things confirmed why ANYONE would ever want a free aim system implimented, if you impliment it just for long range its just a "fluff" ability with no purpose.

 

Easy fix to archers, is make them have seperate buttons they have to click to load bow ( could have multiple options for diff bows), pull back bow, and multiple slots for pulling back requiring longer time periods, and button to release.

I also think archers shouldn't be interupted by spells or attacks, that's what makes them more like mages.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Leiloni

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 379

5/03/13 11:17:16 AM#7
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
Without sounding like a conservative..  I am of the mindset of keeping FPS out of my MMO's.  I've tried it and just not as enjoyable as a traditional targetting system.  I'd like to see the option there for players that want it, but I personally don't want to be forced into it.

You can't really do both. A game is either tab target or it uses some sort of action combat free targeting system. Games that have claimed to do both really don't. Adding on a reticule to a game that is at it's core a tab target game, is still tab target. They'll have to make a decision on which way to go and stick with it because from an overall game design perspective, you can't mix and match. From basic target mechanics, to class abilities, mob design, character and race design, etc. - all of that needs to be designed with the base combat system in mind.

  TigsKC

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 139

5/03/13 11:20:42 AM#8
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
Originally posted by TigsKC

I think a mixture of ability types could work.

I would reserve this AIM-based attack for a few very-long range weapons/spells.  Things like an elite sniper attack.  Maybe in this AIM mode, you could increase your range by 25% and that could be used in special circumstances to pull/attack at a range of relative safety.  Or, it could simply provide some modifier (+ To Hit, - To Dodge) when a skill is aimed.

But, as a rule, I think this would make it hard on ranged classes if the primary combat moves require aiming.  However, some really prefer this.  We shall see.

 

I honestly don't think these types of systems work when ....

1) You have to be standing still to cast

2) casting isn't instant EVER

3) casts can be interuptted

I really have no idea with those 3 things confirmed why ANYONE would ever want a free aim system implimented, if you impliment it just for long range its just a "fluff" ability with no purpose.

 

 

Agreed.  Aiming as a primary mechanism is not the best fit for ranged classes in CU.  However, this fluff does add variety into the mix, too.  Too many MMOs fall back to 1-2-3-4-Tab-1-2-3-4 combat that can get boring.  I bet there are folks who would really enjoy an extra-long ranged sniper attack, if only to mix things up under special circumstances.

 

  mistmaker

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/11/12
Posts: 234

5/03/13 11:26:38 AM#9
i would say all or none. mmofps could be a nice thing. if there were graphics like bf3, open world, but in a phantasy setting, yeah i would play it. 
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/03/13 11:33:55 AM#10
I would love a pvp mmo with mount and blade style combat.
  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

5/03/13 11:37:09 AM#11
Originally posted by TigsKC
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
Originally posted by TigsKC

I think a mixture of ability types could work.

I would reserve this AIM-based attack for a few very-long range weapons/spells.  Things like an elite sniper attack.  Maybe in this AIM mode, you could increase your range by 25% and that could be used in special circumstances to pull/attack at a range of relative safety.  Or, it could simply provide some modifier (+ To Hit, - To Dodge) when a skill is aimed.

But, as a rule, I think this would make it hard on ranged classes if the primary combat moves require aiming.  However, some really prefer this.  We shall see.

 

I honestly don't think these types of systems work when ....

1) You have to be standing still to cast

2) casting isn't instant EVER

3) casts can be interuptted

I really have no idea with those 3 things confirmed why ANYONE would ever want a free aim system implimented, if you impliment it just for long range its just a "fluff" ability with no purpose.

 

 

Agreed.  Aiming as a primary mechanism is not the best fit for ranged classes in CU.  However, this fluff does add variety into the mix, too.  Too many MMOs fall back to 1-2-3-4-Tab-1-2-3-4 combat that can get boring.  I bet there are folks who would really enjoy an extra-long ranged sniper attack, if only to mix things up under special circumstances.

 

From things i've read MJ saying, it will be more like a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12......etc. :p

Personally my feeling is most people that are looking for this game ( the niche ) community don't get bored of 1-2-3-4 button pressing as long as the combat they're doing and the large battles are done right.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Beidric

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/13
Posts: 2

5/03/13 11:43:06 AM#12
I love aim based abilities (skillshots) in MOBAs, not sure if it would work in an MMO, might be fun to try it out a bit in an IT realm.  I would be in favor of a system where arrows/bolt attacks hit the first enemy they ran into. 
  fanglo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 280

5/03/13 12:00:04 PM#13

Most games since DaoC have both systems. Unless I'm not understanding the topic correctly. GTAE spells instantly come to mind. Siege weopons also come to mind.

I think having both systems could work and could be fun if done right. For example give archers aim abilities so they pley more like a FPS character, but let the casters still do tab targeting. There are definately some balance issues with that proposal but I think it could work.

I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

5/03/13 12:46:24 PM#14

IF an aimed FPS attack is included, it absolutely should not require the player to enter a different screen like using seige equipment in WAR does.

Personally, I think the way pre-TOA DAoC worked for archers was and still is the way to go.  Have a knock-draw-aim-fire system with different draw times for different types of shots and make the targetting tabbed at the aim step.  I also hope there will b differnt arrows for different armor types, etc.  That made the class so much more interesting to play. 

As for interrupts, it would be cool if for archers when they get hit there would be a chance of releasing their arrow depending on where in the sequence they are.  If an accidental release occurs it might just go and hit the intended target, but maybe it hits something, or someone, else. 

It makes more sense for mages to have hard interrupts if a spell must be completed for it to work, but if it builds power over the casting time, then maybe they could have a misfire mechanic as well.

Generally though, I'd rather not have a FPS reticle aiming system, especially for archers since only the closest shots would fly straight to the target.  Although that could be fixed by adding in an angling requirement to the targeting system that determines height at range.  That might be cool, but you'd almost never actually get a hit in an MMO if it were extremely realistic because people move around way faster than your arrow would reach them, so you'd be basically spamming guesses.

Lawt

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

5/03/13 1:00:36 PM#15

For a mmorpg i'd much prefer tab targetting than reticule one. if it was more an FPS of course , but not for CU. 

There is so many fps outthere, lets leave the reticule aiming to those, give me an oldschool targeting when it comes to a mmorpg and i'm happy

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  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

5/03/13 1:07:15 PM#16
i like a mix style combat the best personally something akin to gw2 with tab target but also able to dodge/move out of the way from projectiles and such.. that system with tons of abilities and some great classes would be awesome.. i know mj has mentioned gw2 style in a couple interviews before

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  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17501

5/03/13 1:14:27 PM#17
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
Originally posted by TigsKC

I think a mixture of ability types could work.

I would reserve this AIM-based attack for a few very-long range weapons/spells.  Things like an elite sniper attack.  Maybe in this AIM mode, you could increase your range by 25% and that could be used in special circumstances to pull/attack at a range of relative safety.  Or, it could simply provide some modifier (+ To Hit, - To Dodge) when a skill is aimed.

But, as a rule, I think this would make it hard on ranged classes if the primary combat moves require aiming.  However, some really prefer this.  We shall see.

 

I honestly don't think these types of systems work when ....

1) You have to be standing still to cast

2) casting isn't instant EVER

3) casts can be interuptted

I really have no idea with those 3 things confirmed why ANYONE would ever want a free aim system implimented, if you impliment it just for long range its just a "fluff" ability with no purpose.

 

Easy fix to archers, is make them have seperate buttons they have to click to load bow ( could have multiple options for diff bows), pull back bow, and multiple slots for pulling back requiring longer time periods, and button to release.

I also think archers shouldn't be interupted by spells or attacks, that's what makes them more like mages.

I completelyh disagree.

Having to stand still to attack makes perfect sense. You get to a good attackign ground, take aim and attack. Firing a bow is not like firing a gun. Not that one is goign to hit something accurately while running and firing a gun.

But firing a gun is a lot more instant than placying your arrow, pulling back the drawstring, aiming and firing. If you get hit you should be interrupted.

Having said that, because or the limitations, the damage, if you do hit, should be significant. it's a tradeoff.

I'm all for aiming and firing with bow weapons and I'm all for having to make decisions on whether or not you should attack or find a better place for an attack.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

5/03/13 1:26:57 PM#18
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

I completelyh disagree.

Having to stand still to attack makes perfect sense. You get to a good attackign ground, take aim and attack. Firing a bow is not like firing a gun. Not that one is goign to hit something accurately while running and firing a gun.

But firing a gun is a lot more instant than placying your arrow, pulling back the drawstring, aiming and firing. If you get hit you should be interrupted.

Having said that, because or the limitations, the damage, if you do hit, should be significant. it's a tradeoff.

I'm all for aiming and firing with bow weapons and I'm all for having to make decisions on whether or not you should attack or find a better place for an attack.

i played couple games(can't think of names of top of my head) that had a system for bows that allowed you to run and shoot but greatly reduced damage/accuracy.. think that would be a great system for this game

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17501

5/03/13 1:29:35 PM#19
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

I completelyh disagree.

Having to stand still to attack makes perfect sense. You get to a good attackign ground, take aim and attack. Firing a bow is not like firing a gun. Not that one is goign to hit something accurately while running and firing a gun.

But firing a gun is a lot more instant than placying your arrow, pulling back the drawstring, aiming and firing. If you get hit you should be interrupted.

Having said that, because or the limitations, the damage, if you do hit, should be significant. it's a tradeoff.

I'm all for aiming and firing with bow weapons and I'm all for having to make decisions on whether or not you should attack or find a better place for an attack.

i played couple games(can't think of names of top of my head) that had a system for bows that allowed you to run and shoot but greatly reduced damage/accuracy.. think that would be a great system for this game

That would work.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

5/03/13 1:33:58 PM#20

I tried it aswell in PS2, and i didn't like it myself. I know skill should matter, but thats not skill thats motorcontrol which imho shouldn't matter as much in a MMO.

But i think it should matter wether you have line of sight or fire to your target. For example if you fire an arrow at player A, and another hostile target B moves between it and its intended target the arrow should hit B not fly through him to hit A. That way things like position, high ground etc will mater more, i.e. make the game more tactical instead of more twitchy.

Also i think the whole idea of going with realistic mechanics unless it hurts gameplay is a good idea. For example the arrow hitting an unintended hostile due to movement would be good, the same arrow hitting an unintended friendly target would only lead to griefing and hurt realmpride.

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