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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Encouraged Discrimination?

3 Pages « 1 2 3 Search
51 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6101

5/02/13 1:44:34 PM#41

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by itgrowls

Gear in this game is nothing like it is in the others. It's really REALLY easy to get, they even have an in game helper called a broker that tells you where to get your next upgrades if it be by the auction house or completing a task. So even if people are being stupid about this it's not that difficult to catch up. and I doubt very much it takes an enormous amount of dungeon running to actually achieve the goals you need for your play style. 

Also, if someone end game is taking the trinity seriously, they can't play honestly. If they think that the trinity is at all necessary to finish and they are acting all leetist about it call them out because that's not how the game is designed and they are just trying to cover for their own lack of skill. I usually don't make statements like this and I usually hate the leetist people who spew this stuff at every turn but in this case the way this game was designed to be trinity lite, it's true, they aren't what they claim to be if they are expecting a perfectly built trinity run every time.

What dungeons have you done? The Cloak Tower? Come back again once you are doing end game hard modes.

Gear matters, so does the trinity. Unless you want to waste lots of money on the store healthstones.

 

This is very true.  At later levels you need better gear and that stuff isn't just thrown at you like greens.

Originally posted by Quizzical
If a player's utility in a group is primarily determined by his gearscore, then discrimination is the least of your worries.  "Combat is terrible" is a much bigger problem.

 

I don't think the gearscore works like that in this game though.  It's action oriented so gear score has more to do with the potential of a players output and not so much their actual output.  A tank with great gear will be able to survive longer but, unlike a hard tab-targeted game with total rng determining combat, a tank in this game still needs to use mobility and tactics or they will be chugging pots or dying.

I do agree though, that there could have been better ways to hide this stuff from the player.  It's sort of a lazy easy way out when designing group content and requirements.

Originally posted by birdycephon
So basically, because something useful can be abused by some people to hurt other peoples feelings, it should be removed?

The developers should have used a little foresight and experience to make a better system.  There is gearscore in Rift (Hit, Toughness, and Focus), but each role only needs to do well in their primary area.  A tank needs toughness and a little hit.  A physical dps class needs hit, and a magic class needs focus.  No one really says, does your total gear need this score.  They just advertise the content.  Each content area has a known minimum hit/tough/focus.   And, the dungeon finder only shows options for which you qualify so it's not like you're looking at what a loser you are.  It only shows the content that will help you gear up.

It's not so much the system, but how it's implemented and how it can be used to detract from the community.

Curse you AquaScum!

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

5/02/13 1:47:28 PM#42
Originally posted by psiic
Originally posted by theAsna


Something like gearscore is more or less a crutch.


People just see different things in it. There are some that use it to discriminate. Others use it as a tool to judge the skill of a person or to estimate the time another person spent playing the game, etc.


 

This is EXACTY the point, gearscore does not score the SKILL of the player at all.  Yet most idiots looking at gerascore think it does.

 

 

I understand where youre comming from, however there comes a point where no matter how skillful a player is, he will still fail without the appropriate gear, or severly handicap the party, whether he gets one-shotted by an aoe, or doesnt deal enough dps to bring down the boss before it goes berserk.
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5565

5/02/13 1:50:07 PM#43
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Amjoco
I'm just now looking into this game. I'm somewhat confused on gear and the "foundry" system. What keeps someone from making a mission and adding epic loot on a very simple level? Is there a requirement for the author to achieve before developing a mission? Sorry for the dumb question. 

Anyone plz? I

you can't assign loot in the foundry its automatic based on how hard the encounter is.. you can set how hard mobs are in the foundry like easy medium hard and such then the game automatically assigns loot

I have a quick question. Can you build things using the foundry without paying anything?

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6101

5/02/13 1:52:01 PM#44
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Amjoco
I'm just now looking into this game. I'm somewhat confused on gear and the "foundry" system. What keeps someone from making a mission and adding epic loot on a very simple level? Is there a requirement for the author to achieve before developing a mission? Sorry for the dumb question. 

Anyone plz? I

you can't assign loot in the foundry its automatic based on how hard the encounter is.. you can set how hard mobs are in the foundry like easy medium hard and such then the game automatically assigns loot

I have a quick question. Can you build things using the foundry without paying anything?

Yes you can.  There are limits on how much you can publish I think, but I don't know those.

Curse you AquaScum!

  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 801

5/02/13 1:56:51 PM#45
Logged into gw2 lastnight to play the new dungeon thats lvl80 and some cat was asking for group and we need 1 more so I invited him only to see he was lvl20.  THIS!!!
  theAsna

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 303

5/02/13 1:57:43 PM#46
Originally posted by birdycephon
Originally posted by psiic
Originally posted by theAsna


Something like gearscore is more or less a crutch.


People just see different things in it. There are some that use it to discriminate. Others use it as a tool to judge the skill of a person or to estimate the time another person spent playing the game, etc.


 

This is EXACTY the point, gearscore does not score the SKILL of the player at all.  Yet most idiots looking at gerascore think it does.

 

 

I understand where youre comming from, however there comes a point where no matter how skillful a player is, he will still fail without the appropriate gear, or severly handicap the party, whether he gets one-shotted by an aoe, or doesnt deal enough dps to bring down the boss before it goes berserk.

 

No matter the gearscore you'll only know if a player was useful after you have run content with them. At least once.

 

1) Being killed by an AOE means the player was not aware what happened around him/her. HP thresholds are more accurate in this case than a gear score metric.

2) Gearscore will only tell you something about a DPS potential. Whether that player delivers that potential is another question.

 

The more interesting question is. If the content is difficult then why do you have to rely on pugging?

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

5/02/13 2:01:31 PM#47
Originally posted by theAsna
Originally posted by birdycephon
Originally posted by psiic
Originally posted by theAsna


Something like gearscore is more or less a crutch.


People just see different things in it. There are some that use it to discriminate. Others use it as a tool to judge the skill of a person or to estimate the time another person spent playing the game, etc.


 

This is EXACTY the point, gearscore does not score the SKILL of the player at all.  Yet most idiots looking at gerascore think it does.

 

 

I understand where youre comming from, however there comes a point where no matter how skillful a player is, he will still fail without the appropriate gear, or severly handicap the party, whether he gets one-shotted by an aoe, or doesnt deal enough dps to bring down the boss before it goes berserk.

 

No matter the gearscore you'll only know if a player was useful after you have run content with them. At least once.

 

1) Being killed by an AOE means the player was not aware what happened around him/her.

2) Gearscore will only tell you something about a DPS potential. Whether that player delivers that potential is another question.

 

The more interesting question is. If the content is difficult then why do you have to rely on pugging?

 

Because some people want to run high end dungeons, but dont want to have no time to commit fulltime to a raiding guild.
  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

5/02/13 2:14:41 PM#48
Originally posted by psiic
Originally posted by theAsna


Something like gearscore is more or less a crutch.


People just see different things in it. There are some that use it to discriminate. Others use it as a tool to judge the skill of a person or to estimate the time another person spent playing the game, etc.


 

This is EXACTY the point, gearscore does not score the SKILL of the player at all.  Yet most idiots looking at gerascore think it does. 

 

This is true. It's like a job resume. Sure the job seeker may be the best worker ever...but if his resume is mispelled and written in crayons...he's unlikely to get hired...

 

 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

5/02/13 3:50:01 PM#49
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Amjoco
I'm just now looking into this game. I'm somewhat confused on gear and the "foundry" system. What keeps someone from making a mission and adding epic loot on a very simple level? Is there a requirement for the author to achieve before developing a mission? Sorry for the dumb question. 

Anyone plz? I

you can't assign loot in the foundry its automatic based on how hard the encounter is.. you can set how hard mobs are in the foundry like easy medium hard and such then the game automatically assigns loot

I have a quick question. Can you build things using the foundry without paying anything?

yes once you get level 15 foundry opens and costs nothing to use.. you are limited in the number of total projects you are given 10 quest & 10 campaigns slots.. pretty sure you can purchase more slots but haven't looked into that yet

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  theAsna

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/09
Posts: 303

5/03/13 12:46:45 AM#50
Originally posted by birdycephon
Originally posted by theAsna
....
The more interesting question is. If the content is difficult then why do you have to rely on pugging?

 

Because some people want to run high end dungeons, but dont want to have no time to commit fulltime to a raiding guild.

 

You don't have to commit fulltime to a raiding guild. You just need to be able to manage your time. You should be able to know when you have some spare time (no work, no family responsibilities, etc.). Build a network of friends/ fellow players/ potential team mates. Find a suitable time when people can play together. Etc. It doesn't need to be 5 days in a row for 5+ hours. Once a week maybe if you find it that hard to find some time.

 

How is gear score helping with that?

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2266

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

5/03/13 12:54:31 AM#51
Originally posted by Vannor

It can be bad for the community that ignores it. For those that don't ignore it, it ensures there is nothing the argue about.

Gearscores came into MMOs because everyone was checking each others equipment, arguing about it and ruining their own and everyone elses fun.

A gearscrore does this: Strong enough for this content? Yep.. No argument. Too weak for this content? Nope.. No argument.

It saves time and arguments.

Some people trying to do content they shouldn't be doing might get hurt feelings if they get kicked from a group.. but at the end of the day.. they wouldn't be hurt if they paid attention to their gearscore and stopped trying to do stuff they shouldn't be doing.

Problem here is that the line you talk about isn't black and white.

There are people with skill who are skilled/strong enough for the content at a much lower score. But the score is used so that the baseline for 'are you strong enough' is really 'is your gear so good even an asshat could complete the content.

Gearscore checks are a way of saying, 'are you overpowered so I don't have to risk dying?'

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