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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are we old farts a dying breed?

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359 posts found
  Ubel12

Novice Member

Joined: 10/17/03
Posts: 154

5/01/13 3:14:27 PM#141
Originally posted by Normandy7
Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

You Sir, took the words right out of my mouth. Game releases, people hit max level in ONE WEEK, and start complaining about end game content. I take my sweet time smelling the roses and enjoying the view.

sgtdoom12 Xfire Miniprofile
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

5/01/13 3:14:56 PM#142
Originally posted by Distopia
I just think it's weird to consider it the "kids" who want it all fast and streamlined. When i was in my early 20's (when i started MMO's in 02), i had all the time I could need to play games like DAOC or SWG. Today I don't have close to that same amount of carefree free time. While I could still play something like SWG. I could not put nearly enough into it to reap the reward of spending that time in game. Which is what you were rewarded for in those days (massive amounts of time spent).

Agreed. I have been played MMO since Kingdom of Drakkar .. and i have less time today than 20 years ago.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting it fast & streamlined. We are talking abotu games here, not real work.

  Roguewiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 569

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

5/01/13 3:20:40 PM#143

The problem isn't the Gen Y or the Instant Gratification crowd.  The problem is casuals.  Before you burn me alive, continue to read.  In the past, developers catered to the not-so-casual.  Difficult content, grind fests, getting the best gear.  Devs wanted that.  It meant the subs remained high and they maked their money.  As time progressed, they began to cater to casuals.  Now catering to casuals is the way to go because the original crowd back in the day were the not-so-casuals who don't have the time anymore.

However, because of that, making truely engaging games is difficult.  It's easy to make a hardcore game, it's really really simple to make a casual game; but it takes a rocket scientist to make a game that has a fair balance of the two and can allow players of all types to enjoy themselves.

I don't want a game that plans everything out for me.  I don't want to see the roadmap to the end of the game.  I want to be able to do what I want, how I want, and continue to advance my character.

Sadly, we haven't had a game like that since EQ or SWG.

Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

5/01/13 3:21:05 PM#144

Honestly, im only playing afew MMO's right now. Most my gaming time is spent playing Shadowrun Or atleast prepareing for the next session.

 

I play DCUO when i feel like mindless pounding into pavement...ness...

or TSW when i want to raid or run Instances.

 

However other than that. P&P has my atteniton again now that i have people who want to play around me.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17627

5/01/13 3:22:26 PM#145
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath

I already said I don't mind fighting. I don't want running, doing "only" 5 kills and then running again.

Great . i think i understand you now.

So D3 will be your perfect game. You get to kill a LOT. In fact, you can kill 20+ with just one attack (and at the same time, you can die too). It is a perfect balance of feeling poweful, and having challenges.

And throw in an open world for pvp, territory control, meeting people on the road and helping them, etc.

None of those things have anything to do with fighting. I thought you said you like fighting as long as you are fighting a lot of mobs?

I do, and I want an open world. I'm just throwing that in as a note of my preference.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

5/01/13 3:25:46 PM#146
Originally posted by Roguewiz

The problem isn't the Gen Y or the Instant Gratification crowd.  The problem is casuals.  Before you burn me alive, continue to read.  In the past, developers catered to the not-so-casual.  Difficult content, grind fests, getting the best gear.  Devs wanted that.  It meant the subs remained high and they maked their money.  As time progressed, they began to cater to casuals.  Now catering to casuals is the way to go because the original crowd back in the day were the not-so-casuals who don't have the time anymore.

However, because of that, making truely engaging games is difficult.  It's easy to make a hardcore game, it's really really simple to make a casual game; but it takes a rocket scientist to make a game that has a fair balance of the two and can allow players of all types to enjoy themselves.

I don't want a game that plans everything out for me.  I don't want to see the roadmap to the end of the game.  I want to be able to do what I want, how I want, and continue to advance my character.

Sadly, we haven't had a game like that since EQ or SWG.

But no one says you need the same game to cater for both. Don't tell me there aren't hard core game.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17627

5/01/13 3:27:15 PM#147
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by Sovrath

I'd rather kill 20 thigns than 5 things. I'd rather kill 100 things than 20 things.

I already said I don't mind fighting. I don't want running, doing "only" 5 kills and then running again.

It's kinda weird to encounter somone with such a diametricly opposed view on this.  Killing 10 of the same mob at a time is probably the limit of what keeps me challenged.  At that point I have mostly 'solvd' the mob and my brain needs a new challenge.  At 20 kills I start feeling like my intelligence is dropping and I am watching Jerry Springer.  The only time I seem to be able to grind the same mobs for hours is when I am depressed and just want my brain to go numb.  The only way I can compensate by posing more and more elaborate challenges to myself in the way I kill the mobs.  Once that stops working I burn out. 

but perhaps you are assuming I'm looking for a "challenge" during leveling.

In pvp I'm looking for the challenge. Maybe during a min-boss i'm looking for a challenge.

in levleing I'm looking for rhythm. But then again, my first mmo was lineage 2 and I enjoyed the leveling there.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

5/01/13 3:27:22 PM#148
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

I do, and I want an open world. I'm just throwing that in as a note of my preference.

What if you have to choose? Good combat against massive horde of mobs but no open world. Will you still play it?

Or open world and killing 5 goblins here, and 4 bandits there.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17627

5/01/13 3:28:21 PM#149
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath
 

I do, and I want an open world. I'm just throwing that in as a note of my preference.

What if you have to choose? Good combat against massive horde of mobs but no open world. Will you still play it?

Or open world and killing 5 goblins here, and 4 bandits there.

as long as the open world has pvp and territory control I will choose the open world.

  Roguewiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 569

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

5/01/13 3:29:34 PM#150
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Roguewiz

The problem isn't the Gen Y or the Instant Gratification crowd.  The problem is casuals.  Before you burn me alive, continue to read.  In the past, developers catered to the not-so-casual.  Difficult content, grind fests, getting the best gear.  Devs wanted that.  It meant the subs remained high and they maked their money.  As time progressed, they began to cater to casuals.  Now catering to casuals is the way to go because the original crowd back in the day were the not-so-casuals who don't have the time anymore.

However, because of that, making truely engaging games is difficult.  It's easy to make a hardcore game, it's really really simple to make a casual game; but it takes a rocket scientist to make a game that has a fair balance of the two and can allow players of all types to enjoy themselves.

I don't want a game that plans everything out for me.  I don't want to see the roadmap to the end of the game.  I want to be able to do what I want, how I want, and continue to advance my character.

Sadly, we haven't had a game like that since EQ or SWG.

But no one says you need the same game to cater for both. Don't tell me there aren't hard core game.

True, but those are called niche games.  Niche games don't make enough money for the "instant gratification" developer/investor.

 

:)

Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1478

5/01/13 3:29:52 PM#151
Originally posted by Torgrim

We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

 

 

Actually, as I've gotten older, I've actually began to enjoy the way games have evolved.  When i was a kid I played Gemstone III(now IV), and that shit took forever to do anything in, but I loved it.  So what changed?  I longer have 40+ hours a week to piss away.  I want to get my money's worth out of the handful of hours I do get to play, and I want to make progress that doesn't need to be measured in years.

 

So no, I think it has very little to do with "age" and a lot more to do with how much time your willing to piss away on a game.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

5/01/13 3:32:04 PM#152
Originally posted by Draemos
 

 

Actually, as I've gotten older, I've actually began to enjoy the way games have evolved.  When i was a kid I played Gemstone III(now IV), and that shit took forever to do anything in, but I loved it.  So what changed?  I longer have 40+ hours a week to piss away.  I want to get my money's worth out of the handful of hours I do get to play, and I want to make progress that doesn't need to be measured in years.

 

So no, I think it has very little to do with "age" and a lot more to do with how much time your willing to piss away on a game.

Well said. And there are more games to play now, as well as other forms of entertainment. So the amount of time i am willing to spend on a single game decreases.

 

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

5/01/13 6:02:47 PM#153

I think what's gone is the possibility of a new experiences because a lot of interesting features have been left off the table. It seemed that 10 years ago MMOs were attractive because of the potential experiences and interactions one could have in a game. Right now it's more about going through the motions of what is expected using a very limited set of features.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

5/01/13 7:18:48 PM#154
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Cephus404
 Trust me, we all know what old-school gamers want.  The fact remains though, no matter how many times it gets repeated, it's just not  going to happen.  There's a point at which people have to accept that the games they want will never get made and go do something else.

So, then your answer to the original question is yes. Yes we are dying out and we should just give up and stop trying. We should, as you so eloquently put it, get it through our heads.

This is really all you needed to type, the rest is just rubbing it in that there are plenty of games for you to play and none for us to play. Better yet, pay more attention to the title, and use that information to understand the subject matter and don't even open the thread. 

No, you should deal with the reality that is instead of wishing for a reality that doesn't exist.  Whining about wanting a flying car isn't going to get you a flying car, it's just going to waste everyone's time and make you look foolish.  The number of people who actually want an old-school game, who might actually play an old-school game, are very small.  There aren't enough people to actually make an old-school game worth making.

So when are the old farts going to get that fact through their heads?

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

5/01/13 7:20:03 PM#155
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Cephus404
 Trust me, we all know what old-school gamers want.  The fact remains though, no matter how many times it gets repeated, it's just not  going to happen.  There's a point at which people have to accept that the games they want will never get made and go do something else.

Really? I am a pretty old-school gamer. My first CRPG is Ultima 3, and my first MMORPG is Kingdom of Drakkar, then UO, then EQ.

And what i want .. is happening left and right. Finally MMOs are becoming better games. So don't think all older timers want the same stuff.

I go back farther than you do but let's face it, we don't label ourselves old-school gamers, we're just gamers.  We aren't fixated on a gaming style that's largely extinct.  We just want to have fun.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  eyelolled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3103

I am more than some of my parts

5/01/13 7:31:55 PM#156
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Cephus404
 Trust me, we all know what old-school gamers want.  The fact remains though, no matter how many times it gets repeated, it's just not  going to happen.  There's a point at which people have to accept that the games they want will never get made and go do something else.

Really? I am a pretty old-school gamer. My first CRPG is Ultima 3, and my first MMORPG is Kingdom of Drakkar, then UO, then EQ.

And what i want .. is happening left and right. Finally MMOs are becoming better games. So don't think all older timers want the same stuff.

I go back farther than you do but let's face it, we don't label ourselves old-school gamers, we're just gamers.  We aren't fixated on a gaming style that's largely extinct.  We just want to have fun.

and here I thought I was old! Looks like I'm just a young buck in his gaming prime! Keep your daughters locked up fella's or they'll be out chasing after some sweet eyelolled action

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Tjed

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 161

5/01/13 7:52:10 PM#157
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Cephus404
 Trust me, we all know what old-school gamers want.  The fact remains though, no matter how many times it gets repeated, it's just not  going to happen.  There's a point at which people have to accept that the games they want will never get made and go do something else.

So, then your answer to the original question is yes. Yes we are dying out and we should just give up and stop trying. We should, as you so eloquently put it, get it through our heads.

This is really all you needed to type, the rest is just rubbing it in that there are plenty of games for you to play and none for us to play. Better yet, pay more attention to the title, and use that information to understand the subject matter and don't even open the thread. 

No, you should deal with the reality that is instead of wishing for a reality that doesn't exist.  Whining about wanting a flying car isn't going to get you a flying car, it's just going to waste everyone's time and make you look foolish.  The number of people who actually want an old-school game, who might actually play an old-school game, are very small.  There aren't enough people to actually make an old-school game worth making.

So when are the old farts going to get that fact through their heads?

Well, right now I'm playing Neverwinter and loving the foundry. I've got two or three games that I'm looking forward to playing. your analogy is absolutely awful, as it attempts to make many people here look like they are searching for something that never existed in the first place. It's more like wanting something retro or throwback, something that mimics a style that used to be enjoyed by many. These things are very circular and it is not a certainty that a certain style of game could become popular again in the future.

I also don't understand how a many page thread full of people agreeing with each other as well as reminiscing about how much fun they used to have is "wasting time" and "looking foolish".  There are lots of people here that seemed to enjoy themselves discussing this subject.  If you feel you have wasted your time by reading the entire thread, when you knew from the title that you would disagree, then I honestly can't say I blame you. I'm sorry you wasted your time.

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 334

5/01/13 8:08:33 PM#158
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Cephus404
 Trust me, we all know what old-school gamers want.  The fact remains though, no matter how many times it gets repeated, it's just not  going to happen.  There's a point at which people have to accept that the games they want will never get made and go do something else.

So, then your answer to the original question is yes. Yes we are dying out and we should just give up and stop trying. We should, as you so eloquently put it, get it through our heads.

This is really all you needed to type, the rest is just rubbing it in that there are plenty of games for you to play and none for us to play. Better yet, pay more attention to the title, and use that information to understand the subject matter and don't even open the thread. 

No, you should deal with the reality that is instead of wishing for a reality that doesn't exist.  Whining about wanting a flying car isn't going to get you a flying car, it's just going to waste everyone's time and make you look foolish.  The number of people who actually want an old-school game, who might actually play an old-school game, are very small.  There aren't enough people to actually make an old-school game worth making.

So when are the old farts going to get that fact through their heads?

Technically there may well be enough for such a game to be made, however it wouldn't be a AAA title and would be a niche game, I also agree many who played then probably wouldn't have time nor desire to play it.  But in theory it is a area of the market that isn't generally catered for (most old school games having since become more casual to emulate modern successes) and could very well be profitable.

Will it be done though?  Probably not.  There are easier demographics to target.

Is it worth admonishing people for wanting an old school game?  Nope, more choice is a good thing.  Even if that choice is not something you would enjoy.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

5/01/13 8:42:07 PM#159
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Cephus404
 Trust me, we all know what old-school gamers want.  The fact remains though, no matter how many times it gets repeated, it's just not  going to happen.  There's a point at which people have to accept that the games they want will never get made and go do something else.

Really? I am a pretty old-school gamer. My first CRPG is Ultima 3, and my first MMORPG is Kingdom of Drakkar, then UO, then EQ.

And what i want .. is happening left and right. Finally MMOs are becoming better games. So don't think all older timers want the same stuff.

I go back farther than you do but let's face it, we don't label ourselves old-school gamers, we're just gamers.  We aren't fixated on a gaming style that's largely extinct.  We just want to have fun.

Yeh. I don't see a compelling reason to fixated on a single gaming style. There are so many ways to have fun.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20673

5/01/13 8:43:17 PM#160
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Tjed
 

So, then your answer to the original question is yes. Yes we are dying out and we should just give up and stop trying. We should, as you so eloquently put it, get it through our heads.

No. there is even a better solution. Change your preference and enjoy what is out there.

It works wonders.

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