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General Discussion  » Official post - when questing in other faction's zones won't even be able to see other faction's players.

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277 posts found
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3479

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/30/13 7:36:47 PM#221


Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.

I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

4/30/13 8:25:50 PM#222
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.


I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

 

I would wager 2 would say open world exploration, 2 would say kicking my friend in the face and 6 would say be the hero that saves the world.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4152

4/30/13 8:29:36 PM#223
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Well, they made a change that was done because either their Beta testers suggested it or because they thought their customer base suggested it.

Are you sure about that? How about this scenario...

Zmax dev 1: hey guys... these level 50 adventure zones are going to take a shitload of time to do--they won't be ready for launch.

Zmax dev 2: Shit... we have no raids and now no adventure zones... We have to give people who don't want to PvP 24/7 some level 50 content.

Zmax dev 3: Hey... how about we give them level 50 versions of the alliance territory they haven't seen yet to mess with at 50?

Zmax lead: Damn good idea! Hardly any extra work needed... beside, there has been some compalining about not being able to go there with our faction-lock system at some fan sites... We can tell them we're doing it for them!... brilliant!

 

I like my guess better than yours.

Does me saying I like mine better make mine right?

No.

But what is more likely though?

That feedback from their beta testers that are there to test the game design and feedback stuff promted a change or that they decided  6 (SIX) years into development that they got it wrong all of a sudden? Or that their origional design to NOT have 1st person view suddenly got changed on a whim and not because of the massive backlash they could see on the forums?

Who knows but the simplest explanation is often the best one.

So sure, go out on a leg and say the developers got a sudden act of inspiration 6 years into development if you want, doesn't change what is happenning to the design either way.

That they realized their real level 50 PvE content, Adventure Zones, wouldn't be ready for launch--and they won't be--and came up with an alternative for level 50 PvE would be the simplest explanation. Beta hadn't even started back then--only Alpha and the "friends and family" testing.

This announcement happened on March 21st not yesterday.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 8:48:42 PM#224
Piritus

You do realize that daoc pve is 99% the same as vanilla EQ pve right?

Nothing like the pve I've seen from TESO.
  jacktors

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/11
Posts: 151

4/30/13 8:53:27 PM#225
Originally posted by kiersteadmo

I like this and I am a very big PVper, but the fact that I will lvl to max as fast as possible to get to the other zones  would  be bad if there was pvp. I would be able to kill all the lower lvl guys and grief, just like in WOW where griefers would kill players then camp the body.

 

 

It is a great way to keep pvp in the pvp only area and let players play the game.

Not if there is a pvp flag implemented.. 

Problem solved.

 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4152

4/30/13 10:18:25 PM#226
Originally posted by jacktors
Originally posted by kiersteadmo

I like this and I am a very big PVper, but the fact that I will lvl to max as fast as possible to get to the other zones  would  be bad if there was pvp. I would be able to kill all the lower lvl guys and grief, just like in WOW where griefers would kill players then camp the body.

 

 

It is a great way to keep pvp in the pvp only area and let players play the game.

Not if there is a pvp flag implemented.. 

Problem solved.

 

And how exactly is questing @ level 50 with a bunch of lowbees from that faction--whom you can't touch--running around under foot better than not seeing them at all?

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/30/13 10:23:23 PM#227


Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by AlBQuirky  

Originally posted by Eol- If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.
I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."  
I would wager 2 would say open world exploration, 2 would say kicking my friend in the face and 6 would say be the hero that saves the world.



Open world style exploration has been a recurring theme from all of the Skyrim players I know. Granted that's a very small number of players compared to all the people who have played the game, but it does seem to be pretty consistent. They will need to somehow capture that feeling, even if players are progressing through zones with levels.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4821

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 10:23:25 PM#228
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Sovrath
I believe we already knew this from earlier info.

 

This isnt' a surprise.




It's a surprise to me. It's interesting though, a different approach than other games. I don't know if it's better or worse, but it's definitely different.

 

Isn't one of the fundamental principles of going into Enemy Territory the risk of encountering Enemies ?

 

immersion-wise oes such a concept make sense ? will enemy territory be enemy territory or just another area ?

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/30/13 10:35:42 PM#229


Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Sovrath I believe we already knew this from earlier info.   This isnt' a surprise.
It's a surprise to me. It's interesting though, a different approach than other games. I don't know if it's better or worse, but it's definitely different.  
Isn't one of the fundamental principles of going into Enemy Territory the risk of encountering Enemies ?

 

immersion-wise oes such a concept make sense ? will enemy territory be enemy territory or just another area ?




The enemies are there, just like they are in the single player games. They just aren't other players. If it works in the single player games then there's no reason it can't work in the MMO.

Whether or not it's 'better' is something we won't be able to answer until a large number of people are playing the game and why the people who leave the game leave it.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4821

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 10:39:33 PM#230
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Sovrath I believe we already knew this from earlier info.   This isnt' a surprise.
It's a surprise to me. It's interesting though, a different approach than other games. I don't know if it's better or worse, but it's definitely different.  
Isn't one of the fundamental principles of going into Enemy Territory the risk of encountering Enemies ?

 

 

immersion-wise oes such a concept make sense ? will enemy territory be enemy territory or just another area ?




The enemies are there, just like they are in the single player games. They just aren't other players. If it works in the single player games then there's no reason it can't work in the MMO.

Whether or not it's 'better' is something we won't be able to answer until a large number of people are playing the game and why the people who leave the game leave it.

 

so the quest-givers are all neutral and share quests with both factions I imagine?

 

alright. makes sense.

 

 

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/30/13 10:53:13 PM#231


Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Sovrath I believe we already knew this from earlier info.   This isnt' a surprise.
It's a surprise to me. It's interesting though, a different approach than other games. I don't know if it's better or worse, but it's definitely different.  
Isn't one of the fundamental principles of going into Enemy Territory the risk of encountering Enemies ?     immersion-wise oes such a concept make sense ? will enemy territory be enemy territory or just another area ?
The enemies are there, just like they are in the single player games. They just aren't other players. If it works in the single player games then there's no reason it can't work in the MMO. Whether or not it's 'better' is something we won't be able to answer until a large number of people are playing the game and why the people who leave the game leave it.  
so the quest-givers are all neutral and share quests with both factions I imagine?

 

alright. makes sense.

 

 




The area is going to be phased, so the quest givers visible to one faction do not need to be visible to players of other factions. Ditto for the regular NPCs and Mobs as well. It can be a completely different experience depending on what faction the player is a member of.

In fact, it makes a lot more sense that with the phased environments each faction will see a different set of quest givers, NPCs and Mobs because otherwise players would see these characters doing things with invisible partners or spontaneously dying for no visible reason.

You're right, the scenario you've described doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If that's the way they go with it, I can't imagine anyone would be that happy with the experience.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4821

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/01/13 12:31:14 AM#232

sounds like a very bloated area to have so many phases stacked and being a STARTER area.

 

I worry about performance.

 

I won't play this anyway, I installed skyrim a year ago and havent opened it yet...but the concept is interesting.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3479

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

5/01/13 6:58:47 AM#233


Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.

I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

I would wager 2 would say open world exploration, 2 would say kicking my friend in the face and 6 would say be the hero that saves the world.

lol You may be right!

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  immodium

Elite Member

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 1403

5/01/13 7:59:21 AM#234
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.


I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

I would wager 2 would say open world exploration, 2 would say kicking my friend in the face and 6 would say be the hero that saves the world.

lol You may be right!

 

I'm sure a few would say 'troll' NPCs by stealing their clothes. I've done that play through. :)

  Qallidexz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/12
Posts: 269

5/01/13 9:50:31 AM#235
Against the wishes of Paul Sage, it looks like they're going to make a good game afterall.
  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

5/01/13 4:17:10 PM#236
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by immodium
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Problem here is, they decided to build the house out of paper. Doesn't matter how many rooms you add, how many floors, how many bathrooms...when the wind starts blowing and the rain starts falling the house becomes a soggy mess.

They decided the 3 fatcion DAOC model was the best way to design the game and everything else is based on it and that is why no matter what they do people do not like it. Now DAOC might be a good design but for a TES MMO? IMO no, it is the wrong design.

But they have chosen their path and they ultimately will have to live with the results, good or bad. I hope for their sake it isn't as bad as I suspect it might be.

There is no right or wrong decision in what a TES mmo should be be.

IMO a TES MMO should be more PvP based than PvE based.

I think arguably that there is right and wrong in designing something with an IP which has already, demonstrably and very successfully got so much right itself already.

Anyone with common sense would, in deciding to use an IP - look to maximise the benefit the IP brings to the table. 7 million players for Skyrim? Numbers like that should make any MMO designer salivate with anticipation!

So check out what made 7 million players play it, put the core elements of that into your MMO - only compromising where you absolutely have to because of the inherent differences between MMO and single player design limitations... and then add extras in a complementary way.

On the way - keep your potential playerbase updated on your major design decisions - explaining why the MMO genre HAS to have certain things which TES doesn't -and how you have done your best to incorporate those things with as much TES goodness as can be fit in the same game.

Do not make design choices which preclude successful elements of your IP.

THAT was a wrong decision...

I disagree.

Take those 7 million TES players, 80% of those players are console players. So right of the bat they are choosing not to please the core of the fanbase.

There are a lot more MMO players than TES PC players. So when deciding to enter the MMO world do you decide to please a small miniority of the TES fans interested in playing an MMO or do you try pleasing the much larger MMO audience.

I understand that TES did get popular for it's exploration. However it's PvE is below average. Seeing as most MMO PvE is even worse I do not have high hopes for TES if they decide to make the game PvE-centric.

I have the single player games for my PvE.

The most sensible thing for Bethesda to do with the SP franchise is add co-op to it's next release. Seeing as it's a console franchise now it will sell like hot cakes and please the core TES fans more than ANY MMO version of TES will.

Your argument would carry more weight if you could quote the % of those console players with PCs and those who also play MMOs... I would wager the overlap is significant.

Let's say 4 million then? MMO dev's still dream about numbers like that...

TES PvE is 'below average'? It's better than any PvE I have ever played - in many ways it is a benchmark for good and immersive PvE...aside from the combat mechanics - and that of course effects PvP too - in fact, rather more.

I would imagine the figures I ask for exist somewhere - there is certainly a chance of it.

Until I see them, your argument is largely speculative I feel.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

5/01/13 4:19:08 PM#237
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.


I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

 

I would wager 2 would say open world exploration, 2 would say kicking my friend in the face and 6 would say be the hero that saves the world.

I would wager they would have much more to say - not just the one thing or the other which coincides with this argument or that...

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/01/13 4:44:23 PM#238
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.


I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

 

I would wager 2 would say open world exploration, 2 would say kicking my friend in the face and 6 would say be the hero that saves the world.

I would wager they would have much more to say - not just the one thing or the other which coincides with this argument or that...

I have been working in sales for a long time now and people are a lot more shallow then that. Its rare people buy products knowing the details. People normally focuse on 1 or 2 things they like about any product and the first gut reaction feature they yell out is the one that will normally sell them on the product. I sold a server once all on the fature it was black and looked sexy. Sure some can list a number of features they like about a product but whats important is like I said, the first one they list. 

Thats why to the gamers exploring everywhere from level 1 in any direction this is not a TES game. Its one feature they are stuck on but its their number one. My number 1 for TES is there, so Im happy. Sure you may have a list of what you want in a TES game but thats not most people. Fact driven people are one of the smallest % of the population. People like you and me are not the norm.

  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

5/01/13 5:52:07 PM#239
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Eol-
If we sat down 10 TES players in a room, we would probably get 10 different opinions about what they want from ESO. Dont act like there is this unanimous mindset, because its not remotely true. In fact, the only thing we know for sure about the TES fanbase is that they like playing the TES RPGs... and the problem is that a MMORPG is going to be different than an RPG designed for a hundred or two hours of single player gaming. No matter what the developers of ESO do, they are going to have to alienate some of the TES fans simply because its impossible to design Skyrim online and still have lots of players in 6 months.


I would wager that 9 out 10 would say, "Open world exploration."

 

and I want a new Ferrari for $40,000. A lot of good that does me.

As I pointed out, TES players like open world exploration but its the one thing that ESO the MMORPG cant possibly give them, because its impossible to create enough material in a MMORPG as fast as people go through it. TES needs to be translated into a MMORPG and that means making major changes; they cant just create a Skyrim where the content never ends (and hell even in Skyrim it seems there is much more content than there is because to a large extent the mobs level up as you do, unlike a MMORPG where the mobs are different levels and there needs to be content for every level). My point was that there isnt one thing or set of things that TES players want from a MMORPG. If people on this forum cant agree how to translate TES into ESO the MMORPG, why in the world would you think there is some agreement among the much larger group of TES players?

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6704

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

5/01/13 5:56:51 PM#240
Originally posted by Eir_S

Well I'm back to wanting to skip this title altogether.  I always said "phasing" would be an issue for those seeking immersion.  Sure, if you can't PvP there's not much sense in seeing players from other factions, but how the HELL does making them not exist make up for it?

Stupid as fuck.  "Mega server" was just a lame buzzword all along.

I agree 100%. I was initially leaning to maybe try this game due to them allowing us to adventure in other factions zones but now you wont even be able to see them? I mean wtf, if their are afraid of PvP then dont allow it but just to make the enemy faction go poof?

No, this is dumb as fuck. I am staying well away from this "MMORPG".

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