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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Well can't say we didn't see this one coming...

12 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last Search
232 posts found
  DeviDemon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 26

4/30/13 3:10:57 PM#61

When they say spam? Do they mean a few people spamming them the same email over and over? if so why couldn't they block them? If different people then how could they expect everyone to know that tons of others were sending emails as well? And it would seem anyone with common sense would realize that spamming an email would have adverse consequences. Who are these other editors he spoke with?

 It just seems to me that Penny Arcade decided at the last minute to do an article slamming CU and it's fans right at the end of Kickstarter.

All games have rabid fans and I'm sure CU isn't the only game they have received emails for yet it's the one they decided to write an article about?

 

And here on the forums I feel like there is a lot of unjustified hate and calling CU out for spamming. Maybe it was bad before I started coming here but as far as I can see it's not that bad and the whining about it is pretty much uncalled for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/30/13 3:12:23 PM#62
Another thing with TOA

two great pvp alternatives launched around the same time - eve and planetside.
  UOlover

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 332

4/30/13 3:12:42 PM#63

I am sure if there was a WoW2 kickstarter from blizzard tomorrow and people spammed penny arcade with emails about it, they would have made the same post......that's believable.

*note the sarcasm*

  RefMinor

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

4/30/13 3:13:28 PM#64
Originally posted by Shadowguy64

We should feel blessed that Phase 1 of the diobolical plan was: MMORPG.com!!

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/comments?cursor=2950555#comment-2950555

Yup, the idiot posted it here on MMORPG.com too

  RefMinor

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

4/30/13 3:14:58 PM#65
Originally posted by UOlover
I am sure if there was a WoW2 kickstarter from blizzard tomorrow and people spammed penny arcade with emails about it, they would have made the same post......that's believable.

It's doubtful, their servers would have been down if it was WoW, they are just lucky it was such a niche game

  david06

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 183

4/30/13 3:15:15 PM#66


Originally posted by Squeak69
its nice to see the CU fanatics are comeing out in droves to try and denounce a article that dousnt agree ith them, with thier usual venom.

kinda prove the point.



Ben Kuchera started a bunch of drama and tried to get a writer for Forbes magazine fired because he posted a link to an emulator. Kuchera did this even though he had done something similar in the past. Kuchera looked like a fool, and eventually he just started ignoring people when he could no longer defend his conduct.

That's why I don't think that the author is credible, it has nothing to do with his criticism of the CU fanbase.


Originally posted by DavisFlight
But the press HAS been covering this game. Most of it anyway. Almost all MMO sites have, and several PC gaming sites.

And, even PA report is technically covering it. Though it seems petty to say "we're not covering this game because some fans are annoyingly ethusiastic about it." Isn't it their job to report on news?



You're right, the Penny Arcade site hasn't really covered it(when many other sites have) and he's now offering this up as an excuse.


So it's either a poor reason, as many other journalists and sites have managed to wade through this apparent deluge of spam and cover the project, or it's not the real reason.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1954

4/30/13 3:15:59 PM#67
Originally posted by dantheman13
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by dantheman13
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Counterpoint:

It is up to Penny Arcade to put in place a system capable of dealing with such consumer action. That way, fans can be as passionate and organised as they want and PA and co don't have to deal with the negative consequences of such action.

I can see what Ben is saying; it is unpleasant to have to deal with hundreds and hundreds of emails that say the same thing. The problem is that Penny Arcade and other outlets open themselves up to such action by soliciting suggestions, and by broadcasting their contact information for people to use.

The solution isn't to say "the fans of a game have sent us passionate emails that are causing us some issues, so in response to that we're not going to cover that game (and thus punish the business involved)". The business - City State Entertainment - did nothing to PA. PA are in effect boycotting one group of people for the actions of a totally different group of people, even though the group they're boycotting have limited influence over the other group (and did attempt on several occasions to stop the behaviour). That displays a distinct lack of professional courtesy and integrity.

The solution is to say "right, so... we've had this problem before (ed: as the article suggested they have had this problem before), and now we have this problem again. HOW do >WE< deal with this, so that fans can continue to express themselves and we don't have to suffer the negative consequences involved (but can still glean the information we need to provide our readers with the media they want)." That's the right solution, the professional solution, and the solution I'd expect a company worth millions of dollars that has a great deal of experience in dealing with such massive groups of consumers (they organise conventions ffs) to pursue.

Movie studios and various other organisations have come up with a myriad of ways to deal with such consumer action. It's a well documented phenomenon, and several workable (and cost effective) systems have been developed to deal with it. PA and others may not like it, but it comes with the territory (and... again... the article suggests they already knew this).

P.S. I don't care about CU.

Well said.  PA's reaction to the "spamming" is childish at best.  Politicians around the world often get email bombed by pre-written email messages by grassroots organizations.  Such emails have curbed evil things like SOPA and other nasty laws and government policies.  As long as these emails were not automatically generated, which by the sounds of the article there is no proof that they were, PA should have done the responsible thing and taken the emails as a sign of a passionate community that should not be ignored.  Their refusal to cover the game only makes them a questionable and lazy gaming news outlet for me.   

What an illogical and nonsensical comparison.  Obviously from your argument, anyone who disagrees with what you believe is childish.

How exactly is it nonsensical to you?  Maybe you don't know what the responsibilities are of a reliable news source towards their audience?

To compare political mailings to game sponsorship mailings is ludicrous, through and through.  Who are you to judge them childish for not wanting to tolerate such behavior?  I can assure you most people would not tolerate it one bit, would that mean most of us are childish or is it more likely that we are protecting ourselves from having our precious time wasted.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2780

4/30/13 3:18:40 PM#68
Originally posted by DeviDemon

When they say spam? Do they mean a few people spamming them the same email over and over? if so why couldn't they block them? If different people then how could they expect everyone to know that tons of others were sending emails as well? And it would seem anyone with common sense would realize that spamming an email would have adverse consequences. Who are these other editors he spoke with?

 

It was mentioned in the article that it was an organized attempt to get as many people as possible to send out the same copy pasta message.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 979

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

 
OP  4/30/13 3:19:59 PM#69
Originally posted by Shadowguy64

We should feel blessed that Phase 1 of the diobolical plan was: MMORPG.com!!

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/comments?cursor=2950555#comment-2950555

Indeed, I have to giggle to a point thou ( it did make me laugh) that the same community bashing the article now are praising and asking for the person under the persona of "Time" who started this to get a unique title in game. That to me is just another endorsment to the community. I loved the old daoc community and some where pretty nutty, but the majority where pretty down to earth I beleive, it all depends on the way you see it thou. I remember going to original daoc forums that wasn't even part of the daoc site that was the almost "other" part of the community many didn't know about. That got extreme many times depending on what server you where on like most MMO's. I see some of that here, but not at the craze point I see it atm.

That's my opinion thou, I get it they are passionate about getting this title made, just seems a bit extreeme to me. It reminds me of the arguments that broke out about darkfall before darkfall actually was released. Yeah , I was part of those :P not proud of that fact, but grown sense that time. I remember that passion so I get the craze point I see here, I don't know but to me it's even past that point.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  Kenichi

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 108

4/30/13 3:21:23 PM#70
Originally posted by Instigator-Jones
"lol. There's single player games for you then I guess. If you play online, you play with those same nitwits. Nothing unique to CU. You'll see the same attitude of any group of people that care about something and need to convince others to share their view."

You miss the point entirely; I thought CU was supposed to be this 'special' game with this 'amazing' community. If, however, it IS TYPICAL as you say... Well, then all the better to 'just pass'.

No internet community will ever be amazing, except for the small selective groups out there.

With that being said, I was hoping that with less backers there would be less of this attitude floating around. 

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/30/13 3:22:16 PM#71

I honestly didnt see anything negative in the article.  There was that other gaming site that overreacted, but this actually seems like pretty good press.  He affirmed that CSE wasnt the cause and that MJ has tried to do what he can to reign fans in.  He didnt try to discourage anyone from pledging towards the project.  He even posted the new front page video from the kickstarter.

 

It basically sounded like a backhanded way to help advertise the game while still chastising the folks who have been screaming and running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

  DeviDemon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 26

4/30/13 3:23:52 PM#72
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Originally posted by DeviDemon

When they say spam? Do they mean a few people spamming them the same email over and over? if so why couldn't they block them? If different people then how could they expect everyone to know that tons of others were sending emails as well? And it would seem anyone with common sense would realize that spamming an email would have adverse consequences. Who are these other editors he spoke with?

 

It was mentioned in the article that it was an organized attempt to get as many people as possible to send out the same copy pasta message.

Doh. I missed that. Yeah, that was not a good idea. Oh, well.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1954

4/30/13 3:26:50 PM#73
Originally posted by Eraserhead

 


I’ve spoken to multiple editors about this issue, and they all expressed annoyance at the Camelot Unchained spam, and this has led most of us to not cover the game

What drivel. Any decent "editor" of a decent website will not refuse to cover a game out of spite. Editors write about what's relevant and what they think readers want. If they don't cover something that they would have previously then the website probably isn't worth reading.

 

Having said that, mailbombing isn't the best idea in the world.

Didn't MMORPG.com just recently ban a game from this very website, because the game owner was demanding that moderators remove negative comments about said game?  Companies have morals and ethics because they are run by people.  Sometimes it seems like the instant corporation is mentioned, everyone pictures a robot running the show.

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/30/13 3:26:54 PM#74

I look at this two ways:

1. It is disappointing that fanatic fans are going a bit too far and making MJ, CSE, and Camelot Unchained look bad

2. It is disappointing that sites are purposefully trying to harm MJ, CSE, and Camelot Unchained because of it

Look, I get that it is annoying to receive a flood of emails from fans requesting coverage. However, part of your job as a journalist is to receive such emails, and it is quite easy to create rules to ignore them if it gets bad. I am not excusing the fans, but part of the responsibility falls to the journalist, too.

I am confused as to why the next step is to "punish" the company and game for the transgressions of fans. This makes the website and the journalist look petty and without any shred of integrity. I can honestly say Penny Arcade has really disappointed me and I will not be providing it with further ad revenue.

You see, they made a choice to not support Camelot Unchained. That is fine - had they stopped at just that, I would have not said a word or thought anything less of them. It is their choice., But to go out and write a fairly vindictive piece complaining about how they had to deal with some emails really makes me never want to visit their site again.

Anyway, I hope fans let MJ and CSE handle the PR, as it works better that way. Spread awareness via friends and guilds and such, not by spamming forums or websites. I also hope media outlets do their jobs and do not let their opinion of fans change their opinion of the game.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

4/30/13 3:31:23 PM#75
News sites complaining about spam? Kinda like all the ads thrown in my face whenever I load any page on their websites. Welcome to irony.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  dantheman13

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 57

4/30/13 3:31:57 PM#76
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by dantheman13
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by dantheman13
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Counterpoint:

It is up to Penny Arcade to put in place a system capable of dealing with such consumer action. That way, fans can be as passionate and organised as they want and PA and co don't have to deal with the negative consequences of such action.

I can see what Ben is saying; it is unpleasant to have to deal with hundreds and hundreds of emails that say the same thing. The problem is that Penny Arcade and other outlets open themselves up to such action by soliciting suggestions, and by broadcasting their contact information for people to use.

The solution isn't to say "the fans of a game have sent us passionate emails that are causing us some issues, so in response to that we're not going to cover that game (and thus punish the business involved)". The business - City State Entertainment - did nothing to PA. PA are in effect boycotting one group of people for the actions of a totally different group of people, even though the group they're boycotting have limited influence over the other group (and did attempt on several occasions to stop the behaviour). That displays a distinct lack of professional courtesy and integrity.

The solution is to say "right, so... we've had this problem before (ed: as the article suggested they have had this problem before), and now we have this problem again. HOW do >WE< deal with this, so that fans can continue to express themselves and we don't have to suffer the negative consequences involved (but can still glean the information we need to provide our readers with the media they want)." That's the right solution, the professional solution, and the solution I'd expect a company worth millions of dollars that has a great deal of experience in dealing with such massive groups of consumers (they organise conventions ffs) to pursue.

Movie studios and various other organisations have come up with a myriad of ways to deal with such consumer action. It's a well documented phenomenon, and several workable (and cost effective) systems have been developed to deal with it. PA and others may not like it, but it comes with the territory (and... again... the article suggests they already knew this).

P.S. I don't care about CU.

Well said.  PA's reaction to the "spamming" is childish at best.  Politicians around the world often get email bombed by pre-written email messages by grassroots organizations.  Such emails have curbed evil things like SOPA and other nasty laws and government policies.  As long as these emails were not automatically generated, which by the sounds of the article there is no proof that they were, PA should have done the responsible thing and taken the emails as a sign of a passionate community that should not be ignored.  Their refusal to cover the game only makes them a questionable and lazy gaming news outlet for me.   

What an illogical and nonsensical comparison.  Obviously from your argument, anyone who disagrees with what you believe is childish.

How exactly is it nonsensical to you?  Maybe you don't know what the responsibilities are of a reliable news source towards their audience?

To compare political mailings to game sponsorship mailings is ludicrous, through and through.  Who are you to judge them childish for not wanting to tolerate such behavior?  I can assure you most people would not tolerate it one bit, would that mean most of us are childish or is it more likely that we are protecting ourselves from having our precious time wasted.

You seem to be missing the point.  Governments have a responsibility to respond to their constituents regardless of how annoying they are, and reliable news sources have a similar responsibility to respond to their readers regardless of how annoying they are.  Refusing to cover CU for any reason is simply irresponsible for a "reliable" gaming news outlet, and a disservice towards their readers.  

  nf4mous

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/13
Posts: 55

4/30/13 3:38:31 PM#77
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

4/30/13 3:38:46 PM#78
Originally posted by Tuktz
What's funny is since that PA article was posted, the #backers/$pledged has gone up tremendously, so if anything I'd have to thank all the parties involved. =)

Posts like this cause people to hate a game's community.  CU will see nagtavity against it greater than SWTOR or GW2 because of smug crap like this.

  nf4mous

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/13
Posts: 55

4/30/13 3:41:08 PM#79
Originally posted by strangiato2112
 

Posts like this cause people to hate a game's community.  CU will see nagtavity against it greater than SWTOR or GW2 because of smug crap like this.

yeah, right.  if that were the case WoW would've been dead years ago.

keep dreamin!

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

4/30/13 3:42:16 PM#80
Originally posted by Taldier

I honestly didnt see anything negative in the article.  There was that other gaming site that overreacted, but this actually seems like pretty good press.  He affirmed that CSE wasnt the cause and that MJ has tried to do what he can to reign fans in.  He didnt try to discourage anyone from pledging towards the project.  He even posted the new front page video from the kickstarter.

 

It basically sounded like a backhanded way to help advertise the game while still chastising the folks who have been running around screaming like chickens with their heads cut off.

Thats how i took it too.  They arent stupid, they knew that posting their article would probably help the project overall because they went after the fans, and made CSE and Jacobs out to look good.  I bet if Jacobs didnt ask the fans to stop they would have waited til after the kickstarter to post the article.  So it wasnt giving the fans what they wanted, it was rewarding for Jacobs for acknowledging it.

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