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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » There is No MMO Without Microtransactions

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127 posts found
  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

4/30/13 1:40:19 AM#41
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas

So you like throwing your money away for virtual trinkets that expire and forced to buy more? Havent you knoticed that the cash shops are starting to get even worse with their prices. Hell even mounts now cost just as much as an expansion. No thanks!

Sub fee or nothing from me, i will not keep paying outrageous prices for stuff that should be provided free and everyone have the same ability to earn, gain, or make said items.

Cash shops are the worst thing to hit the industry hidding behind the "free to play" BS.

The point I wanted to make is that the two are very far from being mutually exclusive - even if the pro-sub, nay-RMT crowd insists otherwise.  Subscriptions aren't keeping companies from implementing RMTs into their games, so that means if there is indeed a RMT problem then subscriptions aren't part of the solution.

10 million screaming wow fanatics can disagree. 10 milion at 15$ a pop is a huge amount of $$$. They added cash transaction for only one reason...........greed.

If other game companies would get off WOW's coat tails and make some good mmorpg's and stop cattering to the konsole kiddies then there wouldnt be an issue.

 

Even 400k subs will bring in more than your average cash shop. But see cahs hsops were not to bad when they first popped up. 5$ here and there... no biggie. But now mounts, bags, skills, and even basic things like healing potions cost a ton now and even in some cases are only rented to you for awhile. Pure greed.

 

Compared to 30-50 cents a day, its a no brainer.

  User Deleted
4/30/13 1:48:42 AM#42
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Wow doesn't have microtransactions.  It has some extra services available, and there are some mounts and pets you can buy, but you'll never know from just playing the game.  It's never advertised during play.  In fact, there is no way to even access the "shop" from within the game.

While true that unless you know about them you can't tell they were bought.

How do you reconcile these two statements:

"Wow doesn't have microtransctions... there are some mounts and pets you can buy"

That is a microtransaction. 

not too mention the cards for a chance of getting a mount, worse kind of mt IMO. 

it's a microtransaction that is only available if you purposely seek it out, is never advertised, and has zero bearing on the gameplay.  So I can reconcile the two statements just fine, since I don't see the world in black in white as you obviously do.

And the cards?  that's an entirely different game, which happens to have a few in-game bonuses if you get lucky.  You buy the cards for the card game.

Your basic argument seems to imply that you consider a company that sells t-shirts with their logos as a form of "microtransaction."

So you agree it is a microtransaction.

Why would say it is a microtransaction in one breath, and say it's not in another.  Say whether it is a good or bad version of it, but by your own admission it is still a microtransaction.

 

Not in the context of this conversation, no.  At least not anymore than a company selling a shirt or ball cap with the game logo on it.

But feel free to try and cling to an argument based entirely on semantics.

You stated right there it is a micro-transaction.  If you  can't tell the difference between something bough with RL cash that is used in game and something bought with RL cash that is not used in game, than I can't help you.

Of course you are stating that it is a microtransaction and then arguing that it isn't so I doubt anyone could help you anyway.

I was wondering when you'd start with the personal attacks, since actual facts seem to mean nothing to you.  Context is something you are ignoring here.

In the context that I was using in the original post, it seems glaringly obvious that a microtransaction is any transaction associated with an MMO in which real money is exchanged for digital items or content.

Nowhere in your original post do you define microtransactions as such.  In fact, the examples and implications you give are obviously framed around microtransactions as they are used for a primary, or secondary source of income within a game.  The mircrotransactions I mentioned with WoW do not fit that in the slightest.  They are also not exactly lumped into your generalization of players hating games with microtransactions (I've never seen anyone really complain about WoW in that light), and they certainly don't seem to be well-advertised by Blizzard.

As such, I states that WoW would qualify for a game that does not have microtransactions, in the context of your argument, even though it does *technically* have a few things you can buy with real money.

I have a feeling you aren't going to let this drop, however.  You seem like one of those guys who can't admit when they are wrong, as well as a desire to get the last word in.  So reply to this, and you have it, because this conversation is no longer interesting.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 1:53:09 AM#43
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by asmkm22
Wow doesn't have microtransactions.  It has some extra services available, and there are some mounts and pets you can buy, but you'll never know from just playing the game.  It's never advertised during play.  In fact, there is no way to even access the "shop" from within the game.

While true that unless you know about them you can't tell they were bought.

How do you reconcile these two statements:

"Wow doesn't have microtransctions... there are some mounts and pets you can buy"

That is a microtransaction. 

not too mention the cards for a chance of getting a mount, worse kind of mt IMO. 

it's a microtransaction that is only available if you purposely seek it out, is never advertised, and has zero bearing on the gameplay.  So I can reconcile the two statements just fine, since I don't see the world in black in white as you obviously do.

And the cards?  that's an entirely different game, which happens to have a few in-game bonuses if you get lucky.  You buy the cards for the card game.

Your basic argument seems to imply that you consider a company that sells t-shirts with their logos as a form of "microtransaction."

So you agree it is a microtransaction.

Why would say it is a microtransaction in one breath, and say it's not in another.  Say whether it is a good or bad version of it, but by your own admission it is still a microtransaction.

 

Not in the context of this conversation, no.  At least not anymore than a company selling a shirt or ball cap with the game logo on it.

But feel free to try and cling to an argument based entirely on semantics.

You stated right there it is a micro-transaction.  If you  can't tell the difference between something bough with RL cash that is used in game and something bought with RL cash that is not used in game, than I can't help you.

Of course you are stating that it is a microtransaction and then arguing that it isn't so I doubt anyone could help you anyway.

I was wondering when you'd start with the personal attacks, since actual facts seem to mean nothing to you.  Context is something you are ignoring here.

In the context that I was using in the original post, it seems glaringly obvious that a microtransaction is any transaction associated with an MMO in which real money is exchanged for digital items or content.

Nowhere in your original post do you define microtransactions as such.  In fact, the examples and implications you give are obviously framed around microtransactions as they are used for a primary, or secondary source of income within a game.  The mircrotransactions I mentioned with WoW do not fit that in the slightest.  They are also not exactly lumped into your generalization of players hating games with microtransactions (I've never seen anyone really complain about WoW in that light), and they certainly don't seem to be well-advertised by Blizzard.

As such, I states that WoW would qualify for a game that does not have microtransactions, in the context of your argument, even though it does *technically* have a few things you can buy with real money.

I have a feeling you aren't going to let this drop, however.  You seem like one of those guys who can't admit when they are wrong, as well as a desire to get the last word in.  So reply to this, and you have it, because this conversation is no longer interesting.

Thats cause your wrong.  They are microtransactions.  They do use them for income.  They are bought with RL money.  They are in game.

microtransactions as they are used for a primary, or secondary source of income within a game.  They are a 2ndary source of income

They are also not exactly lumped into your generalization of players hating games with microtransactions (I've never seen anyone really complain about WoW in that light),  When blizzard brought in the cards with a chance of a mount, forums screamed.  When blizzard brought in the celestial steed forums screamed.  Now they are used to it.

and they certainly don't seem to be well-advertised by Blizzard.  about 4 million in 24 hours shows there was enough advertisement

 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  jalexbrown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/13
Posts: 122

 
OP  4/30/13 1:58:02 AM#44
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas

So you like throwing your money away for virtual trinkets that expire and forced to buy more? Havent you knoticed that the cash shops are starting to get even worse with their prices. Hell even mounts now cost just as much as an expansion. No thanks!

Sub fee or nothing from me, i will not keep paying outrageous prices for stuff that should be provided free and everyone have the same ability to earn, gain, or make said items.

Cash shops are the worst thing to hit the industry hidding behind the "free to play" BS.

The point I wanted to make is that the two are very far from being mutually exclusive - even if the pro-sub, nay-RMT crowd insists otherwise.  Subscriptions aren't keeping companies from implementing RMTs into their games, so that means if there is indeed a RMT problem then subscriptions aren't part of the solution.

10 million screaming wow fanatics can disagree. 10 milion at 15$ a pop is a huge amount of $$$. They added cash transaction for only one reason...........greed.

If other game companies would get off WOW's coat tails and make some good mmorpg's and stop cattering to the konsole kiddies then there wouldnt be an issue.

 

Even 400k subs will bring in more than your average cash shop. But see cahs hsops were not to bad when they first popped up. 5$ here and there... no biggie. But now mounts, bags, skills, and even basic things like healing potions cost a ton now and even in some cases are only rented to you for awhile. Pure greed.

 

Compared to 30-50 cents a day, its a no brainer.

Do you understand a business's goal in a free market economy?  It's to maximize profits - maximize being the key word here.  Why should Blizzard have to be content with $15 a month if they can charge more for anything and get people to pay for it?  Companies have anways been "greedy" in the literal sense; that's not really anything nearly as new as you're making it out to be.  If any sort of empiral evidence had suggested that there was money to be made on microtransactions going back as far as Ultima Online's launch, I can assure you that microtransactions would be as old as MMOs are.  Or do you honestly believe there was ever a point in time where someone in a publishing company said, "We could make more money, but we're not going to try."?

  jalexbrown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/13
Posts: 122

 
OP  4/30/13 2:01:36 AM#45
Originally posted by asmkm22

Nowhere in your original post do you define microtransactions as such.  In fact, the examples and implications you give are obviously framed around microtransactions as they are used for a primary, or secondary source of income within a game.  The mircrotransactions I mentioned with WoW do not fit that in the slightest.  They are also not exactly lumped into your generalization of players hating games with microtransactions (I've never seen anyone really complain about WoW in that light), and they certainly don't seem to be well-advertised by Blizzard.

As such, I states that WoW would qualify for a game that does not have microtransactions, in the context of your argument, even though it does *technically* have a few things you can buy with real money.

I have a feeling you aren't going to let this drop, however.  You seem like one of those guys who can't admit when they are wrong, as well as a desire to get the last word in.  So reply to this, and you have it, because this conversation is no longer interesting.

Can you quote where in my original post I said anything that definitely suggests a logical consistency with the idea that what World of Warcraft has is not microtransactions?

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 590

4/30/13 2:01:45 AM#46
Originally posted by Omali

Electronic Arts had a presentation about Battlefield Heroes a couple of years ago where they checked metrics and found that people who complained the most on the forums about being able to buy guns were the same people who were paying exponentially more than anyone else for those same guns

I assume it is this presentation you mean: Paying To Win

And you got it wrong. What they say is that the anti MT people are a vocal minority, that can be ignored. Nowhere do they claim that the same people actually pay.

In short their findings were this: A vocal minority is aganst p2w, as silent majority will happily p2w.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/30/13 2:02:56 AM#47
Originally posted by Omali

Electronic Arts had a presentation about Battlefield Heroes a couple of years ago where they checked metrics and found that people who complained the most on the forums about being able to buy guns were the same people who were paying exponentially more than anyone else for those same guns.

 

 

EA also said they'd NEVER make a game without microtransactions again.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/30/13 2:05:08 AM#48

My POV: As long as there isn't P2W with perma stat increases or items you can't earn in game except for cosmetics and maybe mounts or something...let the rich people blow all their dough and fund the game.

Though a sub based game is best, as it's a level playing field for everyone. Everyone pays the same and has access to the same things. There's no excuses when you don't have something (yeah right..lololol) and there's no demonizing people that do have it when you know it was earned. 

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4033

4/30/13 2:08:04 AM#49

There are a few out there with no micro transactions and they are usually the better MMORPGs..

 

The bottom will fall out of the f2p market soon and publishers will soon realise the old sub method was a lot better for steady income. The one thing they need to realise is that they cant compete with wow and they need to stop trying to copy wow.. Once they realise that and actually make a decent game they will be able to make money from subs again..

 

I am not saying f2p and microtransactions will go away.. sadly they are here to stay but the quality of those games is jsut not very good..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/30/13 2:09:11 AM#50
^ Exactly.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

4/30/13 2:12:51 AM#51
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas

So you like throwing your money away for virtual trinkets that expire and forced to buy more? Havent you knoticed that the cash shops are starting to get even worse with their prices. Hell even mounts now cost just as much as an expansion. No thanks!

Sub fee or nothing from me, i will not keep paying outrageous prices for stuff that should be provided free and everyone have the same ability to earn, gain, or make said items.

Cash shops are the worst thing to hit the industry hidding behind the "free to play" BS.

The point I wanted to make is that the two are very far from being mutually exclusive - even if the pro-sub, nay-RMT crowd insists otherwise.  Subscriptions aren't keeping companies from implementing RMTs into their games, so that means if there is indeed a RMT problem then subscriptions aren't part of the solution.

10 million screaming wow fanatics can disagree. 10 milion at 15$ a pop is a huge amount of $$$. They added cash transaction for only one reason...........greed.

If other game companies would get off WOW's coat tails and make some good mmorpg's and stop cattering to the konsole kiddies then there wouldnt be an issue.

 

Even 400k subs will bring in more than your average cash shop. But see cahs hsops were not to bad when they first popped up. 5$ here and there... no biggie. But now mounts, bags, skills, and even basic things like healing potions cost a ton now and even in some cases are only rented to you for awhile. Pure greed.

 

Compared to 30-50 cents a day, its a no brainer.

Do you understand a business's goal in a free market economy?  It's to maximize profits - maximize being the key word here.  Why should Blizzard have to be content with $15 a month if they can charge more for anything and get people to pay for it?  Companies have anways been "greedy" in the literal sense; that's not really anything nearly as new as you're making it out to be.  If any sort of empiral evidence had suggested that there was money to be made on microtransactions going back as far as Ultima Online's launch, I can assure you that microtransactions would be as old as MMOs are.  Or do you honestly believe there was ever a point in time where someone in a publishing company said, "We could make more money, but we're not going to try."?

Greed is what drives every human, sure. But to have people come on here and state that f2p and transactions are a better coarse because its cheaper is just a down right fib. That is what my points are against.

But to be honest, if they wanted more money they could have raised the monthly fee. The standard 14.99/month has never been touched in a decade. The lesser of two evils is not micro-transactions. Because microtransactions are by far not the cheapest route.

12.99 per month is what i pay for a mmo (12 months at a discount) -40 cents per day 120-160 a year/

I get unlimted clothing, armor, wepaons, loot, speeders, mounts, make my own stuff and sell, always have everything i need for storage, housing, and everything else.

 

You pay 0-60$ for the game

15-40$ for a single mount

10-30$ for one extra bag of storage * 3-5 slots (30-150$)

~~right here you already passes what i paid~~

Armor and weapon upgrades (which fail 50% of the time)

Class and skill upgrades

Pets

Housing decore

Costumes (really?)

healing potions

booster potions

name and sex changes

guild registration and/or name changes

dyes to color your armor

extra content

extra dungeons and maps

paid tickets to get into events

paid tickets to get into pvp (which game did that, i forget was pretty sad)

Mystery boxes........ .0001% chance to win that elite magic item .......after 9999 boxes you still ahvent won anything ;)

I know im missing a few dozen more things............................

 

Really is your game that "free" with micro-transactions? Even buying one or 2 here and there in the long run, i pay less, much much less.

And for 40 cents a day, about how much it costs me to start my car up in the morning, i enjoy the entire game, all of its content, and never have to worry about when i need to buy the next "must have" item that everyone else has. And have you noticed how f2p games with cash shops get updated more often....... but 95% of the time its dealing with the cash shop.

Sub game are more superior in concept, just to bad companies arent making good mmorpg's any longer.

  jalexbrown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/13
Posts: 122

 
OP  4/30/13 2:13:39 AM#52
Originally posted by Caldrin

There are a few out there with no micro transactions and they are usually the better MMORPGs..

 

The bottom will fall out of the f2p market soon and publishers will soon realise the old sub method was a lot better for steady income. The one thing they need to realise is that they cant compete with wow and they need to stop trying to copy wow.. Once they realise that and actually make a decent game they will be able to make money from subs again..

 

I am not saying f2p and microtransactions will go away.. sadly they are here to stay but the quality of those games is jsut not very good..

As I said before, though, subscriptions and microtransactions are no longer mutually exclusive.  If a surge of good MMOs came out that warranted subscriptions, there's no reason to believe that in today's world they wouldn't still incorporate microtransactions to some degree.

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 590

4/30/13 2:16:25 AM#53

I guess the point is that a bad game will remain bad, no matter the payment scheme.

And it takes a special kind of incompetence to kill a good game with bad payment scheme.

But to say that a game is good or bad solely based on its payment scheme is just silly.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 2:21:42 AM#54
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas

So you like throwing your money away for virtual trinkets that expire and forced to buy more? Havent you knoticed that the cash shops are starting to get even worse with their prices. Hell even mounts now cost just as much as an expansion. No thanks!

Sub fee or nothing from me, i will not keep paying outrageous prices for stuff that should be provided free and everyone have the same ability to earn, gain, or make said items.

Cash shops are the worst thing to hit the industry hidding behind the "free to play" BS.

The point I wanted to make is that the two are very far from being mutually exclusive - even if the pro-sub, nay-RMT crowd insists otherwise.  Subscriptions aren't keeping companies from implementing RMTs into their games, so that means if there is indeed a RMT problem then subscriptions aren't part of the solution.

10 million screaming wow fanatics can disagree. 10 milion at 15$ a pop is a huge amount of $$$. They added cash transaction for only one reason...........greed.

If other game companies would get off WOW's coat tails and make some good mmorpg's and stop cattering to the konsole kiddies then there wouldnt be an issue.

 

Even 400k subs will bring in more than your average cash shop. But see cahs hsops were not to bad when they first popped up. 5$ here and there... no biggie. But now mounts, bags, skills, and even basic things like healing potions cost a ton now and even in some cases are only rented to you for awhile. Pure greed.

 

Compared to 30-50 cents a day, its a no brainer.

Do you understand a business's goal in a free market economy?  It's to maximize profits - maximize being the key word here.  Why should Blizzard have to be content with $15 a month if they can charge more for anything and get people to pay for it?  Companies have anways been "greedy" in the literal sense; that's not really anything nearly as new as you're making it out to be.  If any sort of empiral evidence had suggested that there was money to be made on microtransactions going back as far as Ultima Online's launch, I can assure you that microtransactions would be as old as MMOs are.  Or do you honestly believe there was ever a point in time where someone in a publishing company said, "We could make more money, but we're not going to try."?

Greed is what drives every human, sure. But to have people come on here and state that f2p and transactions are a better coarse because its cheaper is just a down right fib. That is what my points are against.

But to be honest, if they wanted more money they could have raised the monthly fee. The standard 14.99/month has never been touched in a decade. The lesser of two evils is not micro-transactions. Because microtransactions are by far not the cheapest route.

12.99 per month is what i pay for a mmo (12 months at a discount) -40 cents per day 120-160 a year/

I get unlimted clothing, armor, wepaons, loot, speeders, mounts, make my own stuff and sell, always have everything i need for storage, housing, and everything else.

 

You pay 0-60$ for the game

15-40$ for a single mount

10-30$ for one extra bag of storage * 3-5 slots (30-150$)

~~right here you already passes what i paid~~

Armor and weapon upgrades (which fail 50% of the time)

Class and skill upgrades

Pets

Housing decore

Costumes (really?)

healing potions

booster potions

name and sex changes

guild registration and/or name changes

dyes to color your armor

extra content

extra dungeons and maps

paid tickets to get into events

paid tickets to get into pvp (which game did that, i forget was pretty sad)

Mystery boxes........ .0001% chance to win that elite magic item .......after 9999 boxes you still ahvent won anything ;)

I know im missing a few dozen more things............................

 

Really is your game that "free" with micro-transactions? Even buying one or 2 here and there in the long run, i pay less, much much less.

And for 40 cents a day, about how much it costs me to start my car up in the morning, i enjoy the entire game, all of its content, and never have to worry about when i need to buy the next "must have" item that everyone else has. And have you noticed how f2p games with cash shops get updated more often....... but 95% of the time its dealing with the cash shop.

Sub game are more superior in concept, just to bad companies arent making good mmorpg's any longer.

If you buy all those things then I agree with you, however the person that does that is kinda silly.

Most of those things are available in games, some of them are no different than expansions.

The only one that might be different is bags and they usually offer far far more space than something in game.  And I have them for life.

So I buy 3 bags spend 30 bucks, get everything else in game or with expansions.  In 3 months I've spent less than you did on a sub and have the exact same stuff and I don't have to pay 15 dollars the next month.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  jalexbrown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/13
Posts: 122

 
OP  4/30/13 2:25:34 AM#55
Originally posted by Onomas

Greed is what drives every human, sure. But to have people come on here and state that f2p and transactions are a better coarse because its cheaper is just a down right fib. That is what my points are against.

But to be honest, if they wanted more money they could have raised the monthly fee. The standard 14.99/month has never been touched in a decade. The lesser of two evils is not micro-transactions. Because microtransactions are by far not the cheapest route.

12.99 per month is what i pay for a mmo (12 months at a discount) -40 cents per day 120-160 a year/

I get unlimted clothing, armor, wepaons, loot, speeders, mounts, make my own stuff and sell, always have everything i need for storage, housing, and everything else.

 

You pay 0-60$ for the game - You pay this with most subscription games

15-40$ for a single mount - A little bit of an exaggeration; in my experience you usually pay $10-$20, maybe up to $30

10-30$ for one extra bag of storage * 3-5 slots (30-150$)

~~right here you already passes what i paid~~

Armor and weapon upgrades (which fail 50% of the time) - You pay this in most subscription games in the form of expansion packs

Class and skill upgrades - You pay this in most subscription games in the form of expansion packs

Pets

Housing decore

Costumes (really?)

healing potions

booster potions

name and sex changes - You pay this with most subscription games if it's an option

guild registration and/or name changes

dyes to color your armor

extra content - You pay these in most subscription games in the form of expansion packs

extra dungeons and maps - You pay these in most subscription games in the form of expansion packs

paid tickets to get into events

paid tickets to get into pvp (which game did that, i forget was pretty sad)

Mystery boxes........ .0001% chance to win that elite magic item .......after 9999 boxes you still ahvent won anything ;)

I know im missing a few dozen more things............................

 

Really is your game that "free" with micro-transactions? Even buying one or 2 here and there in the long run, i pay less, much much less.

And for 40 cents a day, about how much it costs me to start my car up in the morning, i enjoy the entire game, all of its content, and never have to worry about when i need to buy the next "must have" item that everyone else has. And have you noticed how f2p games with cash shops get updated more often....... but 95% of the time its dealing with the cash shop.

Sub game are more superior in concept, just to bad companies arent making good mmorpg's any longer.

I don't have empirical evidence to suggest one way or the other what's going to be more expensive for the player (although I will admit that all likelihood does point towards the more restictive MMOs with extensive cash shops), but we are in all likelihood passed the days when publishers were keen to take a subscription and let that be that.  Furthermore there's really no empirical evidence to suggest that microtransactions are inherently bad for MMOs.  In all honesty cash shops, subscriptions, and payment models in general seem to have very slight to no correlation at all to quality.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

4/30/13 2:26:18 AM#56
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Onomas

So you like throwing your money away for virtual trinkets that expire and forced to buy more? Havent you knoticed that the cash shops are starting to get even worse with their prices. Hell even mounts now cost just as much as an expansion. No thanks!

Sub fee or nothing from me, i will not keep paying outrageous prices for stuff that should be provided free and everyone have the same ability to earn, gain, or make said items.

Cash shops are the worst thing to hit the industry hidding behind the "free to play" BS.

The point I wanted to make is that the two are very far from being mutually exclusive - even if the pro-sub, nay-RMT crowd insists otherwise.  Subscriptions aren't keeping companies from implementing RMTs into their games, so that means if there is indeed a RMT problem then subscriptions aren't part of the solution.

10 million screaming wow fanatics can disagree. 10 milion at 15$ a pop is a huge amount of $$$. They added cash transaction for only one reason...........greed.

If other game companies would get off WOW's coat tails and make some good mmorpg's and stop cattering to the konsole kiddies then there wouldnt be an issue.

 

Even 400k subs will bring in more than your average cash shop. But see cahs hsops were not to bad when they first popped up. 5$ here and there... no biggie. But now mounts, bags, skills, and even basic things like healing potions cost a ton now and even in some cases are only rented to you for awhile. Pure greed.

 

Compared to 30-50 cents a day, its a no brainer.

Do you understand a business's goal in a free market economy?  It's to maximize profits - maximize being the key word here.  Why should Blizzard have to be content with $15 a month if they can charge more for anything and get people to pay for it?  Companies have anways been "greedy" in the literal sense; that's not really anything nearly as new as you're making it out to be.  If any sort of empiral evidence had suggested that there was money to be made on microtransactions going back as far as Ultima Online's launch, I can assure you that microtransactions would be as old as MMOs are.  Or do you honestly believe there was ever a point in time where someone in a publishing company said, "We could make more money, but we're not going to try."?

Greed is what drives every human, sure. But to have people come on here and state that f2p and transactions are a better coarse because its cheaper is just a down right fib. That is what my points are against.

But to be honest, if they wanted more money they could have raised the monthly fee. The standard 14.99/month has never been touched in a decade. The lesser of two evils is not micro-transactions. Because microtransactions are by far not the cheapest route.

12.99 per month is what i pay for a mmo (12 months at a discount) -40 cents per day 120-160 a year/

I get unlimted clothing, armor, wepaons, loot, speeders, mounts, make my own stuff and sell, always have everything i need for storage, housing, and everything else.

 

You pay 0-60$ for the game

15-40$ for a single mount

10-30$ for one extra bag of storage * 3-5 slots (30-150$)

~~right here you already passes what i paid~~

Armor and weapon upgrades (which fail 50% of the time)

Class and skill upgrades

Pets

Housing decore

Costumes (really?)

healing potions

booster potions

name and sex changes

guild registration and/or name changes

dyes to color your armor

extra content

extra dungeons and maps

paid tickets to get into events

paid tickets to get into pvp (which game did that, i forget was pretty sad)

Mystery boxes........ .0001% chance to win that elite magic item .......after 9999 boxes you still ahvent won anything ;)

I know im missing a few dozen more things............................

 

Really is your game that "free" with micro-transactions? Even buying one or 2 here and there in the long run, i pay less, much much less.

And for 40 cents a day, about how much it costs me to start my car up in the morning, i enjoy the entire game, all of its content, and never have to worry about when i need to buy the next "must have" item that everyone else has. And have you noticed how f2p games with cash shops get updated more often....... but 95% of the time its dealing with the cash shop.

Sub game are more superior in concept, just to bad companies arent making good mmorpg's any longer.

If you buy all those things then I agree with you, however the person that does that is kinda silly.

Most of those things are available in games, some of them are no different than expansions.

The only one that might be different is bags and they usually offer far far more space than something in game.  And I have them for life.

So I buy 3 bags spend 30 bucks, get everything else in game or with expansions.  I've spent much less than on a sub and have the exact same stuff.

Thats you, and you telling me you never bought anything but bags? And at the rate people jump from game to game...... 30 here, 30 there, 30 more on that one............ eventualy you will surpass my $$$ paid out.

Many people buy ungodly amounts of stuff from cash shops. In average the sub price is by far the cheaper route if you wish to get the full extent of your gaming experience. Because most F2P games I have played minus maybe aion and tera are by far gimped. And you never get the full experience in most without diggin in your pckets.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

4/30/13 2:31:55 AM#57
Originally posted by jalexbrown

 

You pay 0-60$ for the game - You pay this with most subscription games

Normal for almost every game....

15-40$ for a single mount - A little bit of an exaggeration; in my experience you usually pay $10-$20, maybe up to $30

Neverwinter charging 40$ for mounts right now, EQ2 last i looked had 25$ mounts, and many other ones have 204+ mounts, some I have seen as high as 50% for rare ones.

name and sex changes - You pay this with most subscription games if it's an option

Was never a min option in older games, that came along with paid transactions and now part of the norm. Cant recall many older games having that up front. Though i can be mistaken.

guild registration and/or name changes

dyes to color your armor

extra content - You pay these in most subscription games in the form of expansion packs

Expansion packs came maybe once a year or two. Not every other mnth and call them DLC's or special content packs. And charge you a lot for them.

extra dungeons and maps - You pay these in most subscription games in the form of expansion packs

No, you get these part of the expansion pack, not pay for the expansion and then pay for the rest of the content via packs or dlc's. Like D&D for example.............

 

 

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1169

4/30/13 2:32:39 AM#58

Ending VengeSunsoar's baby fit, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropayment

Hasn't WoW had a cash shop since Vanilla, I forget what the start was, but I think it was paid character transfers.

 

 

The more interesting thought is when you add value to in game currency, every item that you spend said in game currency on becomes by definition becomes a micro-transaction. Every single game that has an online economy has micro-transaction. Then again that's just my opinion, as I'm a person who find Time to be a valued commodity.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

4/30/13 2:35:02 AM#59
Originally posted by hfztt

But to say that a game is good or bad solely based on its payment scheme is just silly.

You have been jailed for using the pick pocket skill.  Please confirm your payment of a $0.25 fine to continue playing.

  Lithuanian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/06
Posts: 174

4/30/13 2:41:22 AM#60

About Istaria: it does not have any microtransactions. Just absolutely no option to buy additional plot of land of have Great Shiny Armor of Owning for lame 99.99$,. Yes, they do have 3 subscription plans: 1 standard "Plot owner" and 2 for budget players. However, I do not consider having subscription plans being a microtransaction.

In my mind microtransaction is: a) having game shop; b) encouraged by devs option to buy stuff for real-life cash. Istaria lacks both.

http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com

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