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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Two tumbs down!

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152 posts found
  kaltahn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/10
Posts: 31

Spoiler: He was dead the whole time.

4/29/13 3:03:24 PM#101

Interesting - I wonder how a company can charge low prices in the cash shop for a game that doesn't require the player base to spend money on the game (neither through subs nor retail sale) and expect to make a profit.

Heck, this game's not even scratched the "Hooraaay!  We broke even!" mark, and may never get there.  The current prices in the cash shop should be no surprise to anybody.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7679

Logic be damned!

4/29/13 3:06:22 PM#102
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.

You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money.  I don't think F2P is killing the genre.  Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.

 This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.

P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.

For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.

But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.

So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...

I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  User Deleted
4/29/13 3:45:50 PM#103

Just as a comparison, R3 mount costs 2.8 million AD. That's for one (gold purchased) mount, R2 and R3 training, on one character.

At the worst possible exchange rate (500:1, capped in-game), you would have to make only 2 million AD and convert it to Zen through the exchange to get an account-wide mount unlock. At the median exchange rate (200:1 as per dilithium in STO), you'd only have to earn 800,000 AD to purchase the z-store mount.

Let's take the example of a rank 5 enchantment. To get a rank 5 enchantment in-game through the vendors = impossible - rank 4 = 150,000 AD - but let's multiply that by 4x, for the combining rate, assuming you hit the 65% success first time (4 rank 4 = 1 rank 5). For that 150,000 AD, you could easily get 10 lockbox keys and luck into the runes you wanted (or an epic rune). I've gotten scores from a single key ring. So, vendor prices are terribad.

Seeing this, I'd say grinding AD for anything which can be bought in the store at R3 or found in a lockbox is just plain dumb. Grind AD > Zen, buy it from the store and earn it a lot faster.

 

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4839

 
OP  4/29/13 3:52:48 PM#104
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.

You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money.  I don't think F2P is killing the genre.  Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.

 This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.

P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.

For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.

But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.

So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...

I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?

 You all just nitpicking on a single thing. It's not just mounts.

EVERYTHING in this game is a huge AD sink. The higher level you get, the faster you burn through AD.

Beyond level 30 you will start burning through AD at an alarming rate. Much faster than you can get through ingame means.

  tropik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/03
Posts: 103

4/29/13 3:57:36 PM#105
You say you play MMO's to prorgress your character yet you want to make the progression null by buying everything?
  Jeleena

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/27/08
Posts: 121

4/29/13 4:13:54 PM#106
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.

You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money.  I don't think F2P is killing the genre.  Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.

 This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.

P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.

For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.

But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.

So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...

I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?

 You all just nitpicking on a single thing. It's not just mounts.

EVERYTHING in this game is a huge AD sink. The higher level you get, the faster you burn through AD.

Beyond level 30 you will start burning through AD at an alarming rate. Much faster than you can get through ingame means.

Weird, I am at lvl 34 and haven't spend a single bit of AD yet, nor do I feel the need. Maybe it will get worst, I don't know, but so far so good.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/29/13 4:26:11 PM#107
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.

You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money.  I don't think F2P is killing the genre.  Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.

You know as well as I do that the draw, and the fun, of purchasing mounts comes from the skin of the mount, not the effect it gives my character. That's why they have taken the time to create those skins, to create desire for a certain look. Your solution here is that I should buy a different mount that doesn't take as long to get, and that that will somehow be the same as getting whatever my desired mount is.

Let me be clear. I have no problem putting in the effort to get a mount that I want. In fact, I'd prefer to put in effort, because that makes the reward all the more desireable. But that effort needs to come in a form that's interesting, like an epic questline, or fulfilling certain achievements. Choosing between simply hanging on to an extremely bloated amount of game currency, or spending money in the cash shop is not rewarding. That kind of choice is not what should be in a game.

Impatience can only really be argued if it took a reasonable amount of time to obtain the items, which of course will vary from person to person. But I think for most people 3 months is beyond what would be considered reasonable for such a mundane form of purchase.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2755

4/29/13 4:27:59 PM#108
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

Not too long ago, the general opinion was that: "P2P is destroying the fun in this genre".

A great many people believed that "not having to pay to play" would be more fun than anything else.

Seems that did not end well ?

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2230

4/29/13 4:30:25 PM#109
Originally posted by PieRad
Originally posted by Emeraq
Wait... You're requesting a refund because you don't want to pay the listed prices for other items in the cash shop???  I truly hope you are declined, as you clearly state the game is fun and decently designed, so you clearly aren't unhappy with the product you received.. it's the other products that you haven't even paid for that you are pissed about... Some people amaze me.

What a nice guy you are, to stand up for a company ripping off gamers...

 

Round of applause for this gentleman right 'ere!

 

  Wait its a feee game, cost nothing to download and play, nothing in the cash shop is required to play and have fun. The items in the cash shop are not P2W and can be aquired by in game play.  How exactly are they ripping off gamers? As the guy said some people amaze me.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2501

4/29/13 4:31:11 PM#110
Originally posted by simsalabim77
It's a Perfect World game. Did you really think the cash shop and prices would be reasonable? 

BINGO! Neverwinter Online is being published by an Asian company. Expect things to be obsurd. However, I don't have an issue with enormous prices. It gives me something to work towards.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Aderew

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 45

4/29/13 4:31:45 PM#111
You can also receive Astral Diamonds from selling items via auction house.
  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

4/29/13 4:35:07 PM#112
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

Not too long ago, the general opinion was that: "P2P is destroying the fun in this genre".

A great many people believed that "not having to pay to play" would be more fun than anything else.

Seems that did not end well ?

There's always going to be two or more camps in this regard, and we're going to believe differently. I've always been a proponent of P2P. Some people think F2P is the best, and fool themselves into thinking they won't spend more than a sub for the amount of time played. It probably works out for some, but I think for the amount of time people spend in games nowadays, they're probably getting less value than they've led themselves to believe.

it's weird that we've come to the point of fanboying our preferred payment model for the genre, but there it is.

  Killsmallchi

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/08
Posts: 279

Don't be simple

4/29/13 4:40:13 PM#113

It is sad but this is why most games are made for content locusts. No one wants to sit back and enjoy the ride, they are all concerned with being the best on the server right away. I can only play an hour a day if I am lucky, yet I can still have fun. I dont understand these grind arguments...you mean you have goals that take more then 5 minutes? thus youl come back to the game over and over again for longer periods of time to achieve these goals? and the content does not run out in 5 days because it takes time to earn stuff?

Count me in! I can't wait to play NWO....next week when finals are done. 

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

4/29/13 5:14:00 PM#114

The entitlement generation in overdrive.

Its fun, its free, and yet some people still manage to pick fault with that.

 

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

4/29/13 5:17:13 PM#115

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Torvaldr

You can earn refined AD from other content and from AH sales.

You can get a mount, which you want for fun right?, for fairly cheap. You want the best mounts in the game right now without time, effort, or money.  I don't think F2P is killing the genre.  Impatience and entitlement come to mind first.

 This has nothing to do with impatience and entitlement. But F2P pushing grinds to the extreme, to slap the cash shop in our faces.

P2P games have also Epic Mounts that take effort to get. Especially in EverQuest 2 it used to be quite the grind. But still that grind was doable and nowhere near the grind you see in Neverwinter.

For hardcore players who don't care about family and social life and dedicate their lives to gaming and play 10 hours a day... I guess these types of F2P games totally suits them.

But the vast majority of players don't play that many hours a day.... and a lot of them will be put off from the game, when they play it for a while and hit the "wall of grind" sooner than later.

So if you plan on playing the game for 6 months, buy your 50-60$ mount and you still paid less than a subscription would cost...

I mean, most people who "don't play that many hours a day" have lives/jobs/families and hopefully money for their hobbies - right?

 You all just nitpicking on a single thing. It's not just mounts.

EVERYTHING in this game is a huge AD sink. The higher level you get, the faster you burn through AD.

Beyond level 30 you will start burning through AD at an alarming rate. Much faster than you can get through ingame means.

I don't think it's nitpicking.  You're exaggerating the cost of everything.  I totally agree that some items are insanely over-priced in both AD and Zen.  However, you're using the most expensive and top tier mount in the game and extrapolating that to cover everything else.  Lesser mounts are cheaper.  Character slots are cheap.  The 24 slot inventory bags are only around $10.

The high end items are too expensive (that's my opinion), but everything in the game is not a huge AD sink and everything isn't priced in the same way the top tier stuff is - the last two points are facts.  You can check those.

Hopefully they will moderate the prices of the more expensive items and time sinks.  If they don't then I simply won't pay for them and I will play the game less.

Originally posted by Lanessar

Just as a comparison, R3 mount costs 2.8 million AD. That's for one (gold purchased) mount, R2 and R3 training, on one character.

At the worst possible exchange rate (500:1, capped in-game), you would have to make only 2 million AD and convert it to Zen through the exchange to get an account-wide mount unlock. At the median exchange rate (200:1 as per dilithium in STO), you'd only have to earn 800,000 AD to purchase the z-store mount.

Let's take the example of a rank 5 enchantment. To get a rank 5 enchantment in-game through the vendors = impossible - rank 4 = 150,000 AD - but let's multiply that by 4x, for the combining rate, assuming you hit the 65% success first time (4 rank 4 = 1 rank 5). For that 150,000 AD, you could easily get 10 lockbox keys and luck into the runes you wanted (or an epic rune). I've gotten scores from a single key ring. So, vendor prices are terribad.

Seeing this, I'd say grinding AD for anything which can be bought in the store at R3 or found in a lockbox is just plain dumb. Grind AD > Zen, buy it from the store and earn it a lot faster.

This is a good post that people should pay attention to.  It's cheaper in many cases to just spend the Zen.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Tsumoro

Elite Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 299

4/29/13 5:25:14 PM#116

This appears to be a common trend these days with people get so butt hurt about cash shop related items. Sure, I would concede I would rather everything be in the game without a cash shop ever being present. However, this is a F2P MMO and they have costs and a profit to make. 

 

They obviously want you to play the game and have fun with it, after all which game developer wouldn't want others to enjoy the work they have slaved over but they also understand that money has to be made. 

 

As long as the items are 'not' required to progress and are nothing more than cosmetic or alternative means are in place to where the items can be earned alternatively then I am perfectly okay with it. Especially with this game which has a foundry system in place to give you new regular content. 

 

Just out of interest, how do you earn the other form of currency? The one that you can exchange without paying any money?

  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 514

4/29/13 5:48:25 PM#117
PWE has always been a clever money sucker. they just enhanced their gameplan. they saw the number of suckers wasting cash in their shitty f2p games in western market is very high but the number of suckers who defend their shitty f2p game and pay2win cash hop are even higher. so they realized if they step up their gameplan, buy a western publisher and buy license to publish game of some well know IP(star trek, D&D) then all the suckers in the world would just jump in to waste as much as cash they can in PWE. this mediocre piece of trash being treated as holy grail just because it has "dungeons& dragons" in it's name and people are saying "respec was never in D&D, so asking money to respec is fine" to defend this trash. PWE is as usual spot on, they were the 1st ever company to publish a complete pay2win game in western market and turn it into huge success, obviously their business mind and psychological understanding of today's mmo gamers is awesome. i applaud them for this at the very least. but people who are defending them, i got nothing to say but a quote i read somewhere : "you can help a blind man see the world if he can open his mind but a man with clear eyes who closed his mind will never see the obvious truth right before his eyes".

No panties, No Life

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/29/13 6:30:14 PM#118
Originally posted by Tokenaru
PWE is P2W everyone knows this.  All of thier games are highly pay to win, they make thier money overseas where they like that sort of thing.  Launching it here is just bonus for them.

how can a game without pvp be P2W?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/29/13 6:31:54 PM#119
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by rygard49

At 25k AD per day, it would take you 80 days capping AD to get the tier 3 mount. Almost 3 months of time, without spending any AD on ANYTHING else, for one purchase. This is what the free to play model is all about. Show you the desirable item, and then make the effort to obtain it unreasonable for an average player, which then drives that average player into the cash shop.

Games are about fun right? Is getting a new mount necessary to game play? Nope. Is it fun? Yes. Is saving up 80 days worth of AD fun? No.

Free to play is destroying the fun in this genre.

Not too long ago, the general opinion was that: "P2P is destroying the fun in this genre".

A great many people believed that "not having to pay to play" would be more fun than anything else.

Seems that did not end well ?

depends on game

PS2, GW2 amongst others do it pretty fair.

  Athena_Starfire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 175

UH! Whats this lever do?

4/29/13 6:36:44 PM#120
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by Tokenaru
PWE is P2W everyone knows this.  All of thier games are highly pay to win, they make thier money overseas where they like that sort of thing.  Launching it here is just bonus for them.

how can a game without pvp be P2W?

Neverwinter has PvP (Arenas and Battlegrounds)

 

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