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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Hate the stand still to attack or cast :(.

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64 posts found
  kaz350

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 56

4/29/13 6:47:23 AM#41

Why people are so  in LOVE with the circle strafe bore fest that is GW2 combat I'll never understand.

 

Neverwinter is a different game leave it be

  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

4/29/13 7:24:09 AM#42
Originally posted by kaz350

Why people are so  in LOVE with the circle strafe bore fest that is GW2 combat I'll never understand.

 

Neverwinter is a different game leave it be

I dare you to 1on1 combat while you circle around me mindlessly. See if the battle is all about circling :) 

Oh wait, it's easier to generalize than think right. That there might be people, not you, that do actual good combat, rather than run in circles like bots. I must admit, I love people like you. They usually kill themselves while at it ^^ 

Should I post PvP vids of actual good players that use the movement freedom wisely and they never circle around their targets? 

  furbans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 870

4/29/13 7:28:16 AM#43
Originally posted by ReeseFlamelocks

DDO did it pretty well in that they followed the D&D ruleset of incurring a penalty when moving. In reality, doing anything while moving is pretty difficult. Ever walked or ran while trying to hit a target with a firearm? Almost impossible. People have watched too many movies where this is the norm. Ever tried to read a book and walk? Not easy. We pay athletes millions of dollars just to run and catch a flying pigskin. Lots of things are difficult when in motion.

 

Additionally, balance is a pretty big part of using a weapon. When people move or are air born trying to use a melee weapon they have very little leverage or power behind the attack.

 

I am not a fan of the jumping-flying super-ninja mode of combat.

In DDO the penelty is so miniscule that they should just tke it out.  Really very rarely do I ever stand still in DDO as one is always chasing a mob around.

Actually walking and shooting is pretty common and really quite feasable at times, granted not a 150 yards but close range very feasable.

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

4/29/13 7:30:04 AM#44
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by WarWitch

Ok I was hopeing for for a action game, dungon crawler. But I totaly hate the stand still to attack or cast play style of neverwinter.

If we could move and fight like in most other mmo's it would add so much fun and action to the game.

Its prety much a game braker for me. Ohh well back to gw2 best of luck all.

 

I found it irritating in PvE when I first started playing, but as I got to later levels and started doing PvP, it made sense.

Control Wizards would be completely overpowered if they could freely kite while slowing. Also Rogues bunnyhopping around would look terrible (like WoW rogues in arenas).

I think the rooting works, and its fairly unobtrusive once you get into the combat.

Agreed 100%

 

Also you need to understand the average cast time of an ability is about .5 seconds where other action games have 1 to 1.5 sec cast time and the difference between animations locks between say Tera and Neverwinter are light and day.  Call me what you will but I prefer this high action, quick skill animation, self rooting animations as it makes the combat visceral and weighty.  Something GW2 and TESO lack.  I used to think GW2's animations were good but the floaty feeling is no where near as good looking as Neverwinter.

SUP

  furbans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 870

4/29/13 7:35:34 AM#45
Originally posted by Lleksu

Heh. Kids.

Being locked in place adds an element of strategy to combat as well as being more realistic. Try swinging a broadsword with power, control and accuracy while running around. It cannot be done. You MUST plant yourself and have a good stance first.

It also takes a cue from the DnD mechanics where a player could choose to move and take a combat penalty or attack.

Personally I love it how it is. GW2 was just spam spam spam. In Neverwinter you have to make a split second judgment call on whether to attack or get the heck outta the way. It feels more... 'mature' I guess.

Hey kiddo, being locked in place to where the char is unresponsive doesn't bring any realism at all.  If anything I'd say this is the most unreal combat since mobs will continuously attack at empty air or how your char wil continue 2-3 more strikes before finally responding to your commands.  GW2 far more requires spilt second decisions... extremely far.  And no... you do not HAVE to plant yourself in a good stance to be effective.  Dueling yes but this isn't dueling.  You don't see soldiers on the battlefiled standing still, they are charging n running around and pacing around an opponent to get an advantage.

And the whole rooting thing comes from PvP justification decision and does not come from any D&D rulebook or feel or anything.

  User Deleted
4/29/13 7:41:30 AM#46
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by WarWitch

Ok I was hopeing for for a action game, dungon crawler. But I totaly hate the stand still to attack or cast play style of neverwinter.

If we could move and fight like in most other mmo's it would add so much fun and action to the game.

Its prety much a game braker for me. Ohh well back to gw2 best of luck all.

 

I found it irritating in PvE when I first started playing, but as I got to later levels and started doing PvP, it made sense.

Control Wizards would be completely overpowered if they could freely kite while slowing. Also Rogues bunnyhopping around would look terrible (like WoW rogues in arenas).

I think the rooting works, and its fairly unobtrusive once you get into the combat.

I'm the same way, they've actually lowered the amount of microseconds the clicker (at-wills) moves will hold you so you can still move much more fluidly then before. Casting takes concentration and so does ranged attacks. Holding you in place keeps you from exploiting and bouncing around like its an FPS, it's not. And it's actually not a weakness of the game.

You get companions and you're supposed to be smart enough to know which companion compliments the role you've chosen. A control wizard shouldn't have a traveling wizard with them. It's redundant. Clerics as companions are one of the things DPS class players in the official forums are raving about, they love how they don't have to  drink potions like a lush on christmas at the family reunion just to stay alive.

I play a Devoted Cleric and the only time I get hit is when I'm either not paying attention or when there's server lag.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

4/29/13 7:53:05 AM#47
Originally posted by kaz350

Why people are so  in LOVE with the circle strafe bore fest that is GW2 combat I'll never understand.

 

Neverwinter is a different game leave it be

Neverwinter is a WoW clone that is trying not to be a WoW clone. So they added in some D3 elements.

 

It is boring as all get out.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 485

4/29/13 8:18:13 AM#48
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by kaz350

Why people are so  in LOVE with the circle strafe bore fest that is GW2 combat I'll never understand.

 

Neverwinter is a different game leave it be

Neverwinter is a WoW clone that is trying not to be a WoW clone. So they added in some D3 elements.

 

It is boring as all get out.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1835

4/29/13 8:44:39 AM#49

I agree with a couple points here.  I do like the ability to move and attack, but I think it should be limited to an extent.  For instance, I think a Thief or dagger wielder should have this ability, but someone using a greatsword or two handed axe should not (or at least have limited abilities that can be done like this).

I've only played a weekend beta and am very excited about tomorrow's opening for the masses, but I think finding the right balance is key.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

4/29/13 8:50:28 AM#50
Originally posted by DeniZg
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by kaz350

Why people are so  in LOVE with the circle strafe bore fest that is GW2 combat I'll never understand.

 

Neverwinter is a different game leave it be

Neverwinter is a WoW clone that is trying not to be a WoW clone. So they added in some D3 elements.

 

It is boring as all get out.

My opinion after playing up to level 20. Not a troll but don't understand why people are so ga-ga over a game that really isn't that well written.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1593

4/29/13 8:56:07 AM#51
Originally posted by WarWitch

Ok I was hopeing for for a action game, dungon crawler. But I totaly hate the stand still to attack or cast play style of neverwinter.

If we could move and fight like in most other mmo's it would add so much fun and action to the game.

Its prety much a game braker for me. Ohh well back to gw2 best of luck all.

 

I hate GW2's spastic combat style.  I didn't at first but after 50 levels I can't stand it anymore.  Oh well to each their own I guess.  Enjoy GW2.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16944

4/29/13 10:35:12 AM#52
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR
 

I call bullshit. 

I can stab you in real while walking around you, I don't need a good stance to murder you if its about the realism. 

it's not about realism, it's "a game".

These are the systems they chose. Some might find it fun.

why does everything always have to be the same?

  tropik

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/03
Posts: 103

4/29/13 4:02:51 PM#53
Dark Souls which has arguably the most deep combat system in a RPG does this also. Don't see anyone complaining about that. This adds a lot of weight to the combat and makes your decisions matter. 
  neorandom

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/08
Posts: 1753

4/30/13 1:10:01 AM#54
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Pantherninpo
You can move and cast in Guild Wars 2, The Secret World, TERA.

you cant move and cast / melee in TERA. You are stuck in a combat animation unless you use the evade skill. But even that is has more movement than NW.

 

NW added the root in place thing with the excuse that it prevents kiting. Why not then make it tactical turn based combat? Thats much better than standing still while actively slapping each other with your enemy with zero tactics. If you are going to make it action combat make it action combat. Mobility is important in action combat.

really?

 

i play my great weapon fighter, and im constantly moving (i dont really use the charge up at will aoe slash because most of the time im killing a big target with my encounters and my primary slash which allows me to move out of the enemies heavy attack arc while dealing heavy dmg)

even in pvp im not standing there letting someone slap me, im proneing and pwning them of constantly getting behind them so they go find a different target to fight that will let them stand there and do it, while i pwn them from behind.

  ReeseFlamelocks

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/10
Posts: 42

4/30/13 1:37:08 AM#55

I think we can all agree that people like different playstyles. Some like the more traditional WoW/Rift/LOTRO style and some like the action-RPG style. Does one require more skill than another? That is highly debatable. If you notice, most "action-RPGs" are very light on the amount of skills or options one has in combat. GW2 actually limits you to a hard 7 (with probably 3-4 used more consistantly over time than others) and TERA has the character utilize about as many at any one time. The humam brain can only handle so much. If you are concetrating on jumping around you are naturally using a lower number of skill-sets. Other games that pile on the skills but limit character movement require the player to manage more skills over a period of time.

 

I personally just don't like the spastic jumping playstyle. I prefer a more realistic tone to my MMO's where the character is a little less mobile but has a larger, and more diverse, number of skills to draw from.

 

In all honestly, DDO did it the best. The characters were mobile but had a lot of tools (not necessarily skills but "options" I will say). Even with a high acrobatics skill you were pretty mobile, but not insanely so. I still consider DDO combat to have nailed it the best. TERA is just the epitomy of everything that is extreme about action-RPGs.

Played: UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, DDO, LOTRO, Aion, Rift, TERA
Sampled: WoW, AoC, GW2, Vanguard, FF XIV, Neverwinter
Playing: ESO

  bingbongbros

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 566

4/30/13 1:42:13 AM#56
Originally posted by Latronus

There have been games that allowed it but I hav never agreed with casters being ale to move and cast.  Call me old fashion, but casting a spell of any kind should require a phrase and/or gestures to be performed perfectly and that would require total concentration.  If you are moving you are not fully concentrating on casting the spell.  That's all my opinion though.

But, we are talking about "games" here and to each there own.  If the OP wants a game where he can run and cast, then have fun playing that game.  We don't all like the same things after all.

Gandalf can run and cast spells and he is a wizard!

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  Kost

Newshound

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 1972

In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.

4/30/13 1:43:39 AM#57
Originally posted by evilastro

Also Rogues bunnyhopping around would look terrible (like WoW rogues in arenas).

Try watching some high end play instead of scrub comps with 1200 rating.

Good rogues don't bunny hop in competitive arena.

  EsLafiel

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/12
Posts: 91

4/30/13 5:55:59 AM#58

I dont like 100% root at all.

Example of what I like is,

 

a powerful spell root you, a medium spell slows you and a weak spell dont hurt your movement at all.

 

If it a guy with a bow then, normal shots dont hurt your movement, but likes marskmen shots where ya hit certain points to do high damage stops your movement.

 

These are just examples of the way I like it.

 

Plus I was so hoping NW would be a game for me, well one down. 

 

still looking forward to elder scrolls,

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16414

4/30/13 6:11:55 AM#59
Originally posted by Latronus

There have been games that allowed it but I hav never agreed with casters being ale to move and cast.  Call me old fashion, but casting a spell of any kind should require a phrase and/or gestures to be performed perfectly and that would require total concentration.  If you are moving you are not fully concentrating on casting the spell.  That's all my opinion though.

But, we are talking about "games" here and to each there own.  If the OP wants a game where he can run and cast, then have fun playing that game.  We don't all like the same things after all.

Movement during casting of arcane spells should be limited, it is part of the lore just like casting spells in melee combat is risky (attacks of opportunity). Divine spells are usually less restricted but also should be less offensive.

In D&D this is a balance thing, arcane spells hurt a lot more than anything else but wizards are very easy to kill (and everyone go for them first).

I think Cryptic have made a misstake here though, D&Ds ruleset is not a great base for action MMO combat and they actually nerfed movement here so it is even worse than in D&D.

I think they should have gone a bit closer to GW2 and TERA, or they should have kept the D&D rules a bit closer to the P&P mechanics.

It is still something you get used to but it will feel a bit slow and clumsy to Tera and GW2 players in the beginning and it might turn many off. NWNs strenght is the foundary, not really the combat mechanics.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8526

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

4/30/13 8:09:54 AM#60
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Latronus

There have been games that allowed it but I hav never agreed with casters being ale to move and cast.  Call me old fashion, but casting a spell of any kind should require a phrase and/or gestures to be performed perfectly and that would require total concentration.  If you are moving you are not fully concentrating on casting the spell.  That's all my opinion though.

But, we are talking about "games" here and to each there own.  If the OP wants a game where he can run and cast, then have fun playing that game.  We don't all like the same things after all.

Movement during casting of arcane spells should be limited, it is part of the lore just like casting spells in melee combat is risky (attacks of opportunity). Divine spells are usually less restricted but also should be less offensive.

In D&D this is a balance thing, arcane spells hurt a lot more than anything else but wizards are very easy to kill (and everyone go for them first).

I think Cryptic have made a misstake here though, D&Ds ruleset is not a great base for action MMO combat and they actually nerfed movement here so it is even worse than in D&D.

I think they should have gone a bit closer to GW2 and TERA, or they should have kept the D&D rules a bit closer to the P&P mechanics.

It is still something you get used to but it will feel a bit slow and clumsy to Tera and GW2 players in the beginning and it might turn many off. NWNs strenght is the foundary, not really the combat mechanics.

Think they did an okay job at translating the dnd pnp 4e rules to a more actionbased system. And combat is still fun espescially in PvE because of the very good mob ai.  For Pvp however themovement  restrictions and rooting of all classes even mellee classes works strange and unnatural, removing a lot of the promissed action based fun. They really missed the nail with their hammer here.

 

And about movement while casting, i still think vanguard hit the nail right on the head, it was just the perfect....

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

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