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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » Lotro, once a great game destroyed...

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110 posts found
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7236

4/28/13 11:15:06 AM#21


Originally posted by Karahandras

Have to agree with this, if it was so great it wouldn't have been a ghost town and had to go f2p.  But I agree with the analysis of the cash shop.


Same logic does not apply to Middle Earth Online...?

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17400

4/28/13 11:43:15 AM#22
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by DavisFlight

LotRO was never a great game.

 

Middle Earth Online was a great game, made by passionate innovative devs.

LotRO was the result of scrapping most of the good content and dumping out a cheap WoW clone. The only real good aspects of LotRO are leftovers from MEO's development.

It was only a matter of time.

Have to agree with this, if it was so great it wouldn't have been a ghost town and had to go f2p.  But I agree with the analysis of the cash shop.

LOTRO didn't go f2p because it was a ghost town,. It went f2p because DDO made so much money with its transition that they wanted to try the same thing in LOTRO.

And though MEO might have fit my preferences far more than what Turbine has done with LOTRO, no one knows how well a finished product MEO would have done or how it would have worn over the years.

  Beatnik59

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2235

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

4/28/13 12:03:29 PM#23

It seems like the überguilds, achiever's lobby, the PvP 1337 and the Counterstrike Club now know what the roleplayers, bread bakers and immersion junkies dealt with back in 2004 to 2005: "you are a minority niche interest, so you don't deserve systems catered to you."

At least the roleplayers, bread bakers and immersion junkies had a good case, however. Besides the typical one of "we pay money," they had other good reasons for developers to throw them a bone.

"We make the games better by doing the things that make the game better," they said, "and our needs are rather minor.  We aren't looking to achieve ultimate power.  We just want a place."

Not so for the twinks.  See, they never really cared about playing.  They only cared about winning.  The only thing the twinks can say at this point is "we pay money," which is--apparently--not enough money for the games to care.

Because they cause a lot more problems than they solve.  Why create raid instances with ultimate loot when it'll all be farmed over in a week by barely 10% of the people, who will then come to boards like these and say "that last expansion sucked?"  Too much money to "feed the twinkers."  Too little value for the development dollar.

That's what we get when we wage "playstyle wars," calling things we don't like as "niche" or "minority" or "not what the core gamer wants."  Because the same reasons that allow us to criticize things we don't like can be turned around and applied to the things we do like.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Lateris

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/05
Posts: 1799

~perspective~

4/28/13 12:14:47 PM#24
@ OP - Sometimes you have to step back and ask are you playing the MMO games because of what everybody else is stating on forums or are you playing a game because its your independent thought process. Who cares what other people think.  I can log into Eve, LOTRO, SWTOR, WoW, or any game and could care less about the trends of the community. I play for world design, heightmaps, terrain, stats, gear, questing, and exploration. I dont care to play the community forums of any game.  Play for yourself. Game development is not such an easy task when you have to have a shopping mall as your front door. MMO gamers cried for F2P- so this is where we are at. The only way to change it is to make your own game.  
  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

4/28/13 2:33:04 PM#25

@ the OP, everyone pretty much know this. We all know that this game quality has gone downhill, it pretty much died during the release of mirkwood. Not going to lie moria/lothlorien days were still fun. 

 

Community was the number 1 good thing about this game (best in all the mmo's out there), but even that is fading. You got jerks flocking in and the forums became a joke. Screw sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views.

But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17400

4/28/13 2:42:27 PM#26
Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views.

But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.

Unless they are not "wrong doings'

For some creepy reason we have "gamers" who think they can say and do whatever they want on forums.

Sometimes there are decent criticisms but many times it's just some rant from some disenfranchised individual who feels that opinion of theirs is "right".

Sapience had a job and did it. It's their forum and their forum is there to discuss the game and it's there to serve the game company "along" with the community.

It's not there to allow players to rant and rave to their heart's content. No company in their right mind would allow it. Regardless of whether there was merit in the complaints.

And in the interest of full disclosure I despise a lot that they did with this game. But that doesn't mean I think "gamers" should have carte blanche to rail against a game company on their very own forum.

 

 

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 3091

$500 Backer to 2015's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

4/28/13 2:43:28 PM#27

Anyone who thinks LOTRO's F2P model is P2W is obviously not someone who's ever played the game. LOTRO isn't PvP oriented, so theres no WIN. LOTRO is a PvE game with the option to play PvP in a single zone. As for the F2P model, it's leagues ahead of any other F2P model out there since you can actually play the content without having to spend a dime. There is no gear restrictions, no gold cap and you can still learn whatever crafting profession you desire, all for free. LOTRO also has some of the better aesthetics of any MMO out there as well for when it came out and even comparable to recent MMOs.

This thread has no merit to it period. I know not everyone likes LOTRO, but lying about the game simply because you don't like it, is well, very trollish.

  SwashBuccaneer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/10
Posts: 148

4/28/13 2:45:29 PM#28
If it's all solo; how exactly is is pay to win?  What are you winning, exactly?
  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3616

4/28/13 2:50:07 PM#29
Originally posted by DavisFlight

LotRO was never a great game.

 

Middle Earth Online was a great game, made by passionate innovative devs.

LotRO was the result of scrapping most of the good content and dumping out a cheap WoW clone. The only real good aspects of LotRO are leftovers from MEO's development.

It was only a matter of time.

 I never thought it was all that great of a game either.....The community that was supposed to be so good was nothing special either...i found both EQ and AO communities much better.....LoTRO was basically carried by the IP, but the game itself was really not very good.

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

4/28/13 3:05:45 PM#30
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views.

But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.

Unless they are not "wrong doings'

For some creepy reason we have "gamers" who think they can say and do whatever they want on forums.

Sometimes there are decent criticisms but many times it's just some rant from some disenfranchised individual who feels that opinion of theirs is "right".

Sapience had a job and did it. It's their forum and their forum is there to discuss the game and it's there to serve the game company "along" with the community.

It's not there to allow players to rant and rave to their heart's content. No company in their right mind would allow it. Regardless of whether there was merit in the complaints.

And in the interest of full disclosure I despise a lot that they did with this game. But that doesn't mean I think "gamers" should have carte blanche to rail against a game company on their very own forum.

 

 

 

Yes but before F2P the forums was fine as it is....then came Sapience.  His infraction system is just too flawed.  There are too many cases when a person is sharing his/her views about the game and how to improve on it but then the thread gets infracted because it makes the game look bad.

Yes, i was one of them, but im not alone i can assure you that. I never had a problem with the lotro forums or any other forums on other website before sapience, jhis pathetic logical of what is deemed "troll" is absurd.

 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17400

4/28/13 3:09:26 PM#31
Originally posted by xalvi
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views.

But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.

Unless they are not "wrong doings'

For some creepy reason we have "gamers" who think they can say and do whatever they want on forums.

Sometimes there are decent criticisms but many times it's just some rant from some disenfranchised individual who feels that opinion of theirs is "right".

Sapience had a job and did it. It's their forum and their forum is there to discuss the game and it's there to serve the game company "along" with the community.

It's not there to allow players to rant and rave to their heart's content. No company in their right mind would allow it. Regardless of whether there was merit in the complaints.

And in the interest of full disclosure I despise a lot that they did with this game. But that doesn't mean I think "gamers" should have carte blanche to rail against a game company on their very own forum.

 

 

 

Yes but before F2P the forums was fine as it is....then came Sapience.  His infraction system is just too flawed.  There are too many cases when a person is sharing his/her views about the game and how to improve on it but then the thread gets infracted because it makes the game look bad.

Yes, i was one of them, but im not alone i can assure you that. I never had a problem with the lotro forums or any other forums on other website before sapience, jhis pathetic logical of what is deemed "troll" is absurd.

 

sorry but I would have to actually see those posts. No insult intended but these very forums are littered with players with their "I can't believe I was banned I was just simply telling the truth and supplying pertinant criticisms" only for me to look at their posts and want to have them banned again for good measure.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

4/28/13 3:17:27 PM#32
Originally posted by Lugoves
If it's all solo; how exactly is is pay to win?  What are you winning, exactly?

Are you saying you can't win in single player games? So why do i feel so strangely happy about 5 skulling nightmare in OMD 2? There might be no PvP, but there is still the epeen. If i see horrible players in chat bragging about how they 5 manned instance xy, knowing they load down with potions & scrolls and other crap from the store ... yeah.

Especially if they complain about me not using store potions when i group with them ... thankfully that only happens once per player /ignore. Im sick of having to defend myself over not buying store stuff. I don't buy gameplay related stuff, period. Thats cheating no matter how you look at it, wether its single player games or MMOs.

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

4/28/13 3:36:26 PM#33
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xalvi
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xalviScrew sapience, the guy killed the right to express peoples views.

But then again you got those fanboys who will never admit to anything about turbines wrongdoings.

Unless they are not "wrong doings'

For some creepy reason we have "gamers" who think they can say and do whatever they want on forums.

Sometimes there are decent criticisms but many times it's just some rant from some disenfranchised individual who feels that opinion of theirs is "right".

Sapience had a job and did it. It's their forum and their forum is there to discuss the game and it's there to serve the game company "along" with the community.

It's not there to allow players to rant and rave to their heart's content. No company in their right mind would allow it. Regardless of whether there was merit in the complaints.

And in the interest of full disclosure I despise a lot that they did with this game. But that doesn't mean I think "gamers" should have carte blanche to rail against a game company on their very own forum.

 

 

 

Yes but before F2P the forums was fine as it is....then came Sapience.  His infraction system is just too flawed.  There are too many cases when a person is sharing his/her views about the game and how to improve on it but then the thread gets infracted because it makes the game look bad.

Yes, i was one of them, but im not alone i can assure you that. I never had a problem with the lotro forums or any other forums on other website before sapience, jhis pathetic logical of what is deemed "troll" is absurd.

 

sorry but I would have to actually see those posts. No insult intended but these very forums are littered with players with their "I can't believe I was banned I was just simply telling the truth and supplying pertinant criticisms" only for me to look at their posts and want to have them banned again for good measure.

 

Understandable, but you and i both know this happens. If someone is calling out a company on their wrong or how the game is lacking in many things, it will eventually be deleted. Because the company doesnt want to be looking bad infront of customers or future customers and there will be arguements on the topic and sapience will deem a few posts as troll of some sort and close the thread.  

He tends to give several infractions on just one post as well. Anyways after digging the web here is what i found.

http://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/1517-sapience-strikes-again/

http://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/834-the-things-i-have-said-that-sapience-does-not-like/

Found much more but you get the picture.

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 504

4/28/13 5:51:07 PM#34
Originally posted by sfc1971

Turbine had with the original game, pre-moria, a decent little sleeper hit on their hands. It was WoW for people that don't like the "intensity" of WoW. And with that I mean anything from the famous barren chat to having to grind just to be able to join a raid. 

The game eventually (before Moria) had two raids, one big and one smaller which gave somewhat okay rewards you didn't need. Raiding was about raiding and not about getting phat loot. I lead plenty, especially Helegrod, were anyone was welcome as long as they met the level requirement to get inside in the first place. 

This would be unthinkable in WoW. Lotro was a nice casual MMORPG and was slowly growing.

But apparently not fast enough because with the release of the Moria expansion, the game took a radically different approach. It introduced an area that was literaly a dungeon and dungeon with no "run free" parts. With that I mean that in the original outdoor areas, you could always find a path with no enemies to harass you on your way to an area OR you could at least reach a spot where you can "run free" of your pursuers without picking up new ones. Not so in Moria, just endless corridors with enemies just widely spaced enough that you would always be under attack. The bypass for collapsed bridge was particullaly insulting, just one corrider just narrow enough to have the single mobs always attack you as you run past. Either run the entire bloody long way under attack or spend an hour or two fighting them. BORING!

Moria also introduced gated content, instances you had to grind before being allowed to do the expansion raid.  For people who by that time had many alts, it promised to be an unsurmountable hurdle and the end content was regonized by many as not worth the hassle. Ever since the introduction Turbine has made countless changes, everytime claiming that this time they had fully satisfied their customers needs... they haven't yet.

Legendary gear was another Moria abonimation and again often changed.

It was basically Moria that ended Lotro as a casual friendly MMORPG and with F2P it opened the flood gates to the kiddies who want WoW but can't afford it. The problem with that approach was simple, the old paying customers left and the new free loaders didn't bring in enough cash. So Turbine went into cash shop overdrive trying to sell stuff like dyes which basically were free in the game proper and finally resorting to pure p2w driving away more old paying customers and getting only free loaders in return.

The game would have been far better if 9/10 of moria had been cut and instead the time had been spent on a nice non-gated raid and some outdoor alternative areas. It had the RP market locked up but wanted to attract the barren crowd instead. Well. They succeeded.

You've echoed my thoughts exactly. The release of Moria marked its decline and I lost my love for it steadily after. I've never experienced such frustrating content as I did with Moria.The legendary system was confusing, and the grind for weapons became unbearable. Then the free to play movement came and players had to pay for content again. To add insult, you're reminded of turbine point on every screen. I'd love to see this game shut down and rebooted. The IP deserves so much better than what this game has become.

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Lithuanian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/06
Posts: 177

4/29/13 3:28:14 AM#35

Of course, Lotro is going down.

It's going down because it has some PvP. It's going down because it has PvE. It's going down because it does not expand new servers. It's going down because it does not merge existing servers. It's going down if it sells fluff in the store. It will be going down if it had no store. It's going down because it is f2p. it will be going down it it wasn't f2p. If they introduce more raids/instances, they are going down because of killing solo content. If they do not introduce more raids/instances, they are going down because of killing group content.

Overall: if I dislike something, game is going down, relies only on fanboys and will end very soon.

Let's start with basic things:

1) in PvE there is no "ultimate gear to win". You can reach endgame, you can stay in lvl.20. It's all about your mood to play. I was happy when, suddenly attacked by some mobs in Eregion, I was able (being lvl.57 and they - some 40s) defend from all of them at one time and use only one healing potion. I did it with standard armour and weapons. What if I purchased stuff from store and did same wipe - would it be "pay to win"?

2) Lotro is 95% PvE. Love it or leave because of it.

3) Turbine is a private company and it has to make money (sounds strange, I know). If they make Big Raid of Death and sales of raid are low - why should they sell it? If raid/instances sells are low - why waste time on things people won't buy? Every company would sell things that do not contradict company's views and bring profit. So - if players do not buy instances/raids - Turbine won't make them, naturally. If OP had a shop and customers won't buy Fishburgers - would OP continue to make Fishburgers at any cost?

4) you will have to pay huge amount of money to unlock basic things like traits, gold cap etc and pay for overpriced expansions without any endgame in the end. Wrong. I spent some 6000 Turbine points in the game. purchasing lots of things: Angmar, Eregion, Evendim, Forochel, Misty Mountains, Mines of Moria; gold cap removal, premium wallet, riding skill, access to Weaponsmith guild, some traits/virtues too. And I paid nothing, just made deeds.

5) Grind. I suppose every game has a grind: kill 100 Rainbow monkeys, slay 78 Orc Nightwach Chiefs or find 99 Sith Lemonade Artefacts on Hoth. Lotro is not different from other games: yes, it asks to kill stuff and rewards for it. Demands increase as player grows up: first slayer deeds require 60 to kill, advanced - some 300. However, OP missed the fact that some quests do require killing or just exploring dungeon/region will force you to kill some stuff. In Forochel, I finished several slayer deeds with very little additional job - everything went naturally.  Also, I am not sure if OP has played all mmorpgs to judge lotro is "the grindiest".

 

I think OP is sad because game does not meet his/her expectations. It does happen, I am dissatisfied with some things in Lotro too. But I do not think game is going down because I dislike certain aspects. I dislike forced fellowships - does it mean game goes down if it has many forced fellowships in Angmar? No, it doesn't. If you don't like Angmar, don't purchase it, don't go there - or if you purchased/went there - take some effort to find fellowship.

I understand OP may be frustrated with slayer deeds (my own "slay 150 Linfavrn in Evendim" is far from being finished), but nobody is forced to do them. If you dislike deed - just ignore it; if you dislike quest - just cancel it.

http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com

  sethman75

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 203

4/29/13 4:55:58 AM#36

[mod edit] The game has never been about pvp. Its a grown up game that grown ups play, not 12 year olds stroking their epeen over a boring and pointless sub game like pvp. If your into that go and play Darkfall or something before it dies because as you know people will be bored within a month and leave the game like all pvp games.

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1622

4/29/13 4:58:26 AM#37
Originally posted by sfc1971

Turbine had with the original game, pre-moria, a decent little sleeper hit on their hands. It was WoW for people that don't like the "intensity" of WoW. And with that I mean anything from the famous barren chat to having to grind just to be able to join a raid. 

The game eventually (before Moria) had two raids, one big and one smaller which gave somewhat okay rewards you didn't need. Raiding was about raiding and not about getting phat loot. I lead plenty, especially Helegrod, were anyone was welcome as long as they met the level requirement to get inside in the first place. 

This would be unthinkable in WoW. Lotro was a nice casual MMORPG and was slowly growing.

But apparently not fast enough because with the release of the Moria expansion, the game took a radically different approach. It introduced an area that was literaly a dungeon and dungeon with no "run free" parts. With that I mean that in the original outdoor areas, you could always find a path with no enemies to harass you on your way to an area OR you could at least reach a spot where you can "run free" of your pursuers without picking up new ones. Not so in Moria, just endless corridors with enemies just widely spaced enough that you would always be under attack. The bypass for collapsed bridge was particullaly insulting, just one corrider just narrow enough to have the single mobs always attack you as you run past. Either run the entire bloody long way under attack or spend an hour or two fighting them. BORING!

Moria also introduced gated content, instances you had to grind before being allowed to do the expansion raid.  For people who by that time had many alts, it promised to be an unsurmountable hurdle and the end content was regonized by many as not worth the hassle. Ever since the introduction Turbine has made countless changes, everytime claiming that this time they had fully satisfied their customers needs... they haven't yet.

Legendary gear was another Moria abonimation and again often changed.

It was basically Moria that ended Lotro as a casual friendly MMORPG and with F2P it opened the flood gates to the kiddies who want WoW but can't afford it. The problem with that approach was simple, the old paying customers left and the new free loaders didn't bring in enough cash. So Turbine went into cash shop overdrive trying to sell stuff like dyes which basically were free in the game proper and finally resorting to pure p2w driving away more old paying customers and getting only free loaders in return.

The game would have been far better if 9/10 of moria had been cut and instead the time had been spent on a nice non-gated raid and some outdoor alternative areas. It had the RP market locked up but wanted to attract the barren crowd instead. Well. They succeeded.

I take it you play a game called WOW?

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  trancejeremy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1220

4/30/13 5:41:38 AM#38

The "community" was always overrated. People in the game were snobs for the most part. If you aren't a member of their kin, they wouldn't even spit on you. Things actually got better when F2P hit, normal people started playing. But now it's back to being insular.

 

The game also was actually doing pretty badly, all things considered. When I started playing the game, about a year after the launch, there were very few people who kept playing after the trial period. I pretty much went from level 25 to 46 without seeing another person in the landscape. It was crazy. And this was on Landroval, one of the bigger servers.  I've never experienced anything like that on a game until City of Heroes, where some servers would only have 20 people on at a time.

 

But part of it was things like not getting a horse until you were level 35. I mean, c'mon. That really sucked, having to run everywhere.  And all the grind involved.

 

But the grind has only gotten worse. I thought grinding for virtues was bad, but LIs are perhaps the worst grind in all of MMORPGs. Including anything from Asia.

 

On the flip side though, a lot of the quest design has gotten better. In many of the newer areas, you don't have to constantly go back to the same area over and over, like you once did. And horses are avaible quicker, which help a lot.

 

If not for LIs, I think the game is actually improved.

 

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  Netspook

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1440

4/30/13 6:12:09 AM#39
Originally posted by vinilla

Hahaha! LOTRO is pay to win game, cmon be serious! Currently Turbine has the best free to play model! I didnt pay for that game since Mines of Moria and still i have almost all contents available! It's pretty easy if u don't want to pay - farm Turbine points ... 

And btw the new expansion has a lot of raids and 3-man 6-man instance so please be more familiar with the game before posting that kind of crap! 

And be more familiar with the term "Pay to win". In LOTRO the only thing u can buy from the shop is cosmetics, steeds and traits if you are too lazy to earn those!

 

You really don't know anything about this, do you?

1. Grinding TP to unlock contents, will require that you first unlock character slots, then use multiple characters to grind the same deeds over and over again. Else you won't get far. You call farming TP over hundreds of hours "pretty easy"? Well, may be true for those without a life...

2. We all know that promises about instances/raids in expansions have been made before, and not been delivered. The new expansion is still far ahead of us, and no one knows what will change before release, this time. So mind your own "crap" posting, please.

3. You tell others to be more familiar with "pay to win", but haven't got a clue yourself. Or do you consider for example stat tomes purely cosmetic? Just one example, there are plenty more.

Failed on all points, try again, please.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16786

4/30/13 6:19:40 AM#40
Originally posted by Dibdabs
YES! - a "pay to win thread".  This is both new and interesting.

As I read it OP is upset because they focus on adding solostuff instead of raids and dungeons, the point wasnt really P2win.

And he do have a point, LOTRO is not the only game that focus on solostuff but few others focus this much on it with an expansion.

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