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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: No MMO

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92 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/04/04
Posts: 364

4/27/13 11:09:33 AM#41
Adam, I feel exactly like you.  I couldn't have expressed it better.

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 496

4/27/13 11:11:52 AM#42
Pretty much how I feel.

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 38

4/27/13 12:24:49 PM#43

I am also in the same boat as you. I have become that MMORPG vagrant once I devoured every piece of World of Warcraft there was, now constantly searching for that same mystifying experience. But as mentioned, much of the allure is gone. After being a long term MMO veteran, starting a new one is quite dull.


I started towards MMO's with a combination of Oblivion and Diablo 2. The great customization options in fantasy worlds, one with great story, the other with action combat, but I sought after a persistent, massive open world and I found that in WoW. When I first started however I was completely new to the genre and had to figure out the progression paths myself: talent trees, questing, PvP, holy trinity, auction houses, raiding, arenas. Just the immensity of the experience at first is great. But once you master all of those aspects and look to other MMOs you realize that that's all there is.


In trying numerous other F2P, B2P and subscription MMO's from indie studios and AAA studio alike I've found two things: a) what it is that I look for in a game and b) that MMO's all just try to emulate the same experience but just focus on one or two aspects (Guild Wars 2 with dynamic events/no raiding, SWTOR with full cutscenes in questing, TERA with full action combat. I could go on but that's all those games are, otherwise just the same old formula with different skins) that separate themselves from the others but then forget about the value of the others.


In the end what I am constantly searching for now is a game that a) Has an intricate, non-cliched, immersive story (Mass Effect), b) is Challenging throughout the entire experience (POE), c) has great customization (Vanilla/BC WoW with gear, TSW with lateral progression, POE with skill gems), d) has choices that matter (Mass Effect/SWTOR with story, POE with bandits, etc.) e) requires some sort of skill/dexterity (non-tab targetting), f) Is easy to find people to play with (PoE noticeboard, Dungeon Finder), g) has some serious production value (WoW), h) has some great teamplay mechanics (raiding/arenas) where you can mix and max compositions and some serious team work is involved rather than just faceroll.


As I've said, many games make some great advances in one or two of those areas but nothing comes close to that first experience which was WoW for me. Essentially my expectations in those areas started at zero and then WoW set the bar. Now I need a game that  out does wow in the majority of those aspects or It just does not work for me.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 610

4/27/13 12:30:11 PM#44
Got nothing to add. I feel like you. Touching Anarchy Online made it even worse. You ruined the evening for me. I hate you now.

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 13

4/27/13 2:25:04 PM#45
i cant seem to find any mmo to play right now all the mmos that i would like to try or would play is either in cbt or the update that am waiting for is far away wat the fuck am i gonna play now mmos these days r total garbage

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/07
Posts: 12

4/27/13 2:47:33 PM#46

Definately feeling the same. I think some of it is the new MMO experience that all players feel with that first game. And yet I wonder how much of our eternal search is based on some of the shared design decisions made by almost all devs these days.

1. Games must be so easy that even the dumbest WOW player can reach max level and do everything the game has to offer...

2. Games must advance so quickly that hardcore players reach max level within the first week and wonder what game they will destroy next week...

3. There can be no downtime or need for groups because people might try to talk to one another...

4. There can't be a death penalty/risk or good players might feel justly rewarded and no one could rush through a dungeon without knowing what they are doing...

5. Uniqueness is our enemy since Johnny might complain how Bob's shiny fork is cooler than his spoon...

6. Even though we told you this was your world we can't let you make any changes to it because you are the fail...

7. Everything in the game must be researchable on fan sites or players might have to use the evil grey matter....besides statics are much cheaper than dynamics...

8. Our game must compete against all other MMOs inculding WOW by copying all 50 of their ideas except for this one other thing over here that is special...and unique...and so mind-blowingly awesome that players will stay enthralled with it for all of 2 days...but hey we got your money! woot! woot!...


Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

4/27/13 2:57:17 PM#47



have you tried EVE Online? it really isn't like the impressions you get from reading the forums.

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 7

4/27/13 6:00:43 PM#48
Nice article. I'm in pretty much the same position, always living in hope that the next big mmo will be "the one", a new world that I can immerse myself in for the long term.

I think I'm getting too fickle in my old age though and I wonder if I'd even be capable of setting down in another mmo these days. Back in the early days of EQ / AC / AO etc, the market was so much smaller. If a game wasn't perfect, you'd pretty much just live with it. Hell, the imperfections were part of the fun sometimes. They gave the games character.

These days though, even the little imperfections or absences can be enough to turn people off and they jump to the next game, always with an eye on 'the next big thing' coming down the line in the hope that those missing gaps will be filled in.

That's pretty much been my situation for the last few years. Things just don't seem to live up to the potential I inevitably (and involuntarily) impose on them. Yet still I live in hope...

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20144

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/27/13 6:20:09 PM#49
Yeah, this article pretty much describes me, now I've gone back to 2003 for my entertainment

In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
"I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/09
Posts: 30

4/27/13 9:01:07 PM#50

This is not really that difficult to understand.  Most games after Wow chose to ignore what people loved of wow and tried to get the popular IP to push the playability/purchasability of the game.  I submit that the F2P model is popular becuase the games were not good enough to draw people in, not because people refuse to pay.  I can't be the only one wanting to support a good i??

if people wanted to play single player rpg's there are those games out there.  people make a choice when looking at an MMO.  The reason wow/eq etc were successful is not because there were only a few mmo's to play..but that people chose an MMO over say the 1player rpg, or rts, etc.  Give the MMO'er and MMO to play, and they'll play it. 



Novice Member

Joined: 12/05/09
Posts: 30

4/27/13 9:07:34 PM#51
Oh..and of course.. Galactically stupid development decisions.. i.e. DDO NOT being 3 or 3.5 ed and set in Forgotten Realms, and NOT open world..gooooood lorddddd.....aarrrghghhhh.../cry

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2441

4/27/13 11:26:08 PM#52
Being in here with this community, I feel more at home than I have with any recent MMORPG ...which is really sad and depressing!

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 527

4/28/13 12:48:43 AM#53
It seems most MMORPGs these games seem kind of shallow.  WoW, in their desire to please everyone they have thrown out their skill trees, homogenized classes, dumbed down gameplay, added minigames that are so simple you could play them on a smartphone.  It feels like game companies are rushing to make something that appeals to everybody, instead of just making something that is fun.  I've cancelled WoW, and am currently playing SWTOR for the stories, but I already know that once I finish the stories in SWTOR I'm gone, they don't provide value to subs and treat F2P players like crap.  I'll probably hit Neverwinter for a bit after SWTOR, but from what I have already read it sounds like there isn't much to keep me playing that either as it doesn't really have the kind of depth I would expect from a D&D game.  Maybe ESO when it hits, but really I have kind of lost faith in MMORPGs and recently they feel less like real games and more like a free/cheap alternative to solo offline games.  (Recently most online game communities make me want to play alone instead of driving me to logon)

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1719

4/28/13 12:55:04 AM#54

Great article :)  I love to see all the excellent comments too!  Too many great ones to mention.  My experience has been very similar to all of you.  Especially BigHatLogan when he said:

It makes it a lot easier to avoid MMORPG addiction since MMORPG games just aren't very good in their current incarnation.  I have played a ton of mmorpgs, but how many did I play longer than a month?  Not very many.  Mr. Tingle is right about the honeymoon period, that can make all sorts of games seem interesting, and I suppose it lasts about a month. 

Play as your fav retro characters: My site: Blog:


Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/13
Posts: 61

Gaming is a healthy escape for the mind

4/28/13 3:37:17 AM#55

 I have WoW, TSW, DCUO, GW, GW2, SWTOR, and DFUW on my computer. They all have there strengths and weaknesses. All of these games have that "honeymoon period". It's the in game community that makes a game a home. 


A great article Adam and I find myself in the same boat. I also have myself to blame. I excluded myself to soloing. Part of it is finding that right group of people to play with. For some strange reason. I have no luck in getting. It's a progress fast mind set anymore. If your behind, you get left there. 


For example WoW, The first mmo I played. I was hooked with a quickness. The community was great. Grouped with people that loved it as much as I. No problem getting help to do raids. BC comes out nothing changes. Game is still great and having a blast in Outland. WOTLK comes around, something I have been waitng for forever. Finally fighting Arthas was something I highly anticipated. Something changed in the community at the same time. It was all about gear score (item level). So I grinded for this gear score I needed to fight the lich king. I got the score I need! Oh, but your still a pug? Well, we will let you in for a gold fee. Not only that you will not be able to roll on the good stuff. That just put a bad taste in my mouth. Still to this day have not fought Arthas. What a drag lol


My two cents...peace everyone :)



Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 1156

4/28/13 4:14:04 AM#56

Well. I've even stopped giving mmorpg's a honeymoon peroid.  Nowadays I just play some beta weekend, read features and watch some long gameplay of someone other than me. 

I know more or less what I want, I am experienced enough to asses what certain game is about. I am past getting 'one month fun' from mmoprg's and buying them knowing from my research that because of what kind of game they're there is very little chance I will like them longer term,

I guess I am still obsessed because I still read and still post about mmorpg's, but I am unable to go on big compromises anymore, unable to  give and get  honeymoon fun peroid from mmorpg's and I know that I won't even seriously consider playing an mmorpg if It does not have very serious potential to be long-term game. 

That require - gameplay and mechanics that are made for me and players similar to me (instead of super wide appeal), theme I do like(no pseudo-fun theme like in WoW or GW2 and no asian stuff), good enough support &production values(I love single& multi indie games - but not mmorpg's - sorry)   and no microtransactions at all. 

On close horizon - next 1-2 years there is no single mmorpg that fulfill those few fundamental requirements.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 5

4/28/13 7:00:32 AM#57
I wander a lot through videogames in search of inspirations, but is really hard to find original things which ALSO work, seems the two word can't collaborate together.
  User Deleted
4/28/13 8:54:31 AM#58

Dear Adam Tingle,


I thought I would critique some if you don't mind.


It's not that worrisome to "escape" into a virtual world. It's called play, and all animals play. Playing is how we develop creativity.


Seeing how your favorite games were EQ, DAoC, and WoW, I can see why you haven't found another MMORPG you call home. No other games are as built like those except maybe RIFT.


The blog failed to mention that the magic is gone from DAoC because that game's PvE was simply ruined by the crazy designs forced upon it by the expansions. At least that is the consensus from a lot of players, even if it's a question of value. It's still a fact that the game's PvE had a significant shift in design. Point being, too many people will praise the MMOs that they loved, but are too afraid of constructively criticizing them using reason and skepticism. This is what creates communities full of social anxiety.


The same phenomenon does actually occur with all other titles, not just FPS. Just hop over to the nostalgia critic community, or the Angry Video Game Nerd community, and you'll find people talking all about how they miss some obscure video game from the 20th century.


If a person is really struggling hard with this issue, and obsessing over it, then it is very important for that person to just uninstall all the video games on their Desktop. Then install one or two non-MMO games and stick with them for a month at least. Then the person forgets all about it.


The problem is real with the MMORPG industry. It's just not a good thing for a person to obsess over it to the point that they are suffering. I know that it is sufferable because I've been there until I uninstalled.


However if this advice does not find relevance with you, then feel free to use it however you wish.





Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

4/28/13 9:06:08 AM#59

I find that GW2 provides me with my fix :)

But I do believe MMO addiction is a real problem and should be addressed.


"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2


Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/07
Posts: 381

4/28/13 11:16:11 AM#60

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