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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Camelot Unchained: The Final Countdown for a Kickstarter, and an Industry

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200 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/27/13 7:44:11 PM#101
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested.  Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".

There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.

Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.

If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.

Cheers

Doc B

 Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:

PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.

The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"

which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play

for example the Torment game http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera?ref=category only 19 updates not a lot of comments yet made over 4 million.. with just a 20 second tech test and really nothing much else

Once again for the hundredth time bringing up Torment is irrelevant.

It is irrelevent because there are amny reasons it got funded so well here's jsut a few

It was riding off the back of Wastleand 2 which is close to release and has shown a lot of good things since funding.

Inxile is an established small studio who has released stuff via the traditional means including the very well recieved The Bard's Tale reboot.

Both Wasteland 2 and Torment have a plethoria of known talent that have worked on Wastlenad,Fallout,Baldur's gate 1/2 etc and aren't banking on one known name alone.

Torment is a game of a reasonable scope for a small company to produce.It's not trying to be a MMORPG for example.

All these things build confidence and so peopel are willign to risk money.None of the aboe apply to CU.

I hope CU does manage to squeek it in but bringing up Torment  KS in comparison  is not germaine.

CU has a big name of course and more ideas and feedback on what they want to make than many games put up on KS.. i just see people complaining left and right they won't back because they don't have a working demo and such which imho isn't the main purpose of KS.. KS is as much of a route for developers to get a project started as it is to get a project finished. Also with torment its still valid to my point as many projects get funded with nothing more than a couple photos and some big names, some raw information on the game nothing else.. what CU KS has shown is leaps above(information wise) many of those projects on what is expected for this game

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

4/27/13 7:49:31 PM#102
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

I just checked out this campaign and I am not even remotely interested.  Besides I wouldn´t have faith in a project which does not show some convincing alpha gameplay snippets. I don´t even see what a success of this campaign has to do with "the industry".

There already were far more successful Kickstarters out there, e.g. Star Citizen, Double Fine, Elite and lots of others showing that it can work, they already changed "the industry" and don´t need Camelot as a "me too" project.

Not every game concept on Kickstarter can be successful.

If a campaign fails, the concept / presentation failed, not some mythical "industry changing" project. Also - too little, too late.

Cheers

Doc B

 Quoting myself here because no one responded to the arguments, also I want to add:

PEOPLE LACK IMAGINATION. Even I do. I can´t imagine this game after reading some of the text blocks, then looking at the very basic looking tech demos. It may appeal to visionary people, but maybe I am not enough of a visionary, or Daoc fan, PvP extremist to back this. Also I am just not really into RvR *shrug*.

The other Kickstarters I backed had lots of things to show, you got some impression of how the game will "feel". After looking at the CU materials the feeling was just.. "Meh, dunno... let´s check it out if / when it is released"

which had lots to show? most the big projects(1 mil+) I have seen and backed have had hardly anything at all.. i backed mostly because the ideas the developers presented sounded like games I would love to play

for example the Torment game http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera?ref=category only 19 updates not a lot of comments yet made over 4 million.. with just a 20 second tech test and really nothing much else

Once again for the hundredth time bringing up Torment is irrelevant.

It is irrelevent because there are amny reasons it got funded so well here's jsut a few

It was riding off the back of Wastleand 2 which is close to release and has shown a lot of good things since funding.

Inxile is an established small studio who has released stuff via the traditional means including the very well recieved The Bard's Tale reboot.

Both Wasteland 2 and Torment have a plethoria of known talent that have worked on Wastlenad,Fallout,Baldur's gate 1/2 etc and aren't banking on one known name alone.

Torment is a game of a reasonable scope for a small company to produce.It's not trying to be a MMORPG for example.

All these things build confidence and so peopel are willign to risk money.None of the aboe apply to CU.

I hope CU does manage to squeek it in but bringing up Torment  KS in comparison  is not germaine.

CU has a big name of course and more ideas and feedback on what they want to make than many games put up on KS.. i just see people complaining left and right they won't back because they don't have a working demo and such which imho isn't the main purpose of KS.. KS is as much of a route for developers to get a project started as it is to get a project finished. Also with torment its still valid to my point as many projects get funded with nothing more than a couple photos and some big names, some raw information on the game nothing else.. what CU KS has shown is leaps above(information wise) many of those projects on what is expected for this game

I won't argue that many KS campaigns have been successful with less or similar to show as CU does but they were all smaller in scope and not asking nearly as much.CU has one Big if tarnished name agreed but my point is Torment is not a good example to use for the above reasons and because their biggest name Brian Forgo has a stelalr reputation to boot.

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 980

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

4/27/13 7:58:14 PM#103

I will say it over and over, developer bible, i don't think it exist and that translated to a bad kickstarter. I WANTED to like this CU concept but it just wasn't clear enough or had real hard set goals. Just basic ideas and what it "might" have or "what we the devs want to have" , nothing concrete.

To me and I am sure many others, to back a kickstarter there has to be something there to  back., use my sig as a perfect example of "how to" do a good kickstarter.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  ego13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 287

Hell is other people. - Sartre

4/27/13 8:07:55 PM#104
Originally posted by Remains

Sorry OP, but this wont work at all...

The writer of the article is practically preaching to the choir. Everyone whos invested and convinced that this will be the best thing since sliced bread will agree with him. Other peeps risk ending up thinking his article is massively exaggerated and kinda creepy.

In fact, this could actually scare people AWAY from the KS, seeing this desperate, feverish speech about how CU is the salvation of the genre. Im not a founder, because its too niche, too little tangible information... and the info is coming from Mark Jacobs. I still remember his massive babbling in the dev videos for Warhammer: so much talk and so little useful info, and how it turned out.

Precisely....and to whoever says he never preaches it being DAoC2...HE DOESN'T HAVE TO.

 

Camelot in the name.

3 realm RvR.

The Depths...wow so original...back in DAoC it was. (yes he included the LOTR:O content)

Sieges...etc...

 

Yeah...that ALL screams DAoC.  If you choose to try and be naive and blind to this, that's ok, just admit that you are.  Don't try to come and act like this isn't obvious.  If you can't make these simple leaps then there are some serious issues with humanity as a whole.

 

On the other hand....I REALLY wish it would fund because it could be "ok".  I am a hardcore pk'er (pvp/rvr/whatever), but the lack of things to do outside of RvR in this game makes me not care even a little bit about funding it.  Their idiotic choice to take out stealth (and no...I practically never play stealthers was a Bard in DAoC) and such a horrid twist on it also made my decision.  But it could be..."ok".

 

This is no herald of better things, nothing innovative (AT ALL), and most of all it's coming from someone who is KNOWN to say whatever is necessary to please the masses then pull the bait and switch.

 

Those that didn't learn from history...will repeat it.

Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/27/13 8:08:36 PM#105
Originally posted by chaintm

I will say it over and over, developer bible, i don't think it exist and that translated to a bad kickstarter. I WANTED to like this CU concept but it just wasn't clear enough or had real hard set goals. Just basic ideas and what it "might" have or "what we the devs want to have" , nothing concrete.

To me and I am sure many others, to back a kickstarter there has to be something there to  back., use my sig as a perfect example of "how to" do a good kickstarter.

not sure how people don't understand though its "kickstarter" one term you can take literally.. it was designed to get projects "started".. i really don't expect anything more than a lot of good ideas to get me to want to fund a kickstarter.. you also, depending on how much you put in, get the chance to help with the very early development process in many of these game which is an added bonus for a lot of people. I personally think its usually a bit counter productive to show tech demos and such as they normally looks pretty "rough" and hardly ever show anything close to what the final game will look like

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  ego13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 287

Hell is other people. - Sartre

4/27/13 8:13:41 PM#106
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by chaintm

I will say it over and over, developer bible, i don't think it exist and that translated to a bad kickstarter. I WANTED to like this CU concept but it just wasn't clear enough or had real hard set goals. Just basic ideas and what it "might" have or "what we the devs want to have" , nothing concrete.

To me and I am sure many others, to back a kickstarter there has to be something there to  back., use my sig as a perfect example of "how to" do a good kickstarter.

not sure how people don't understand though its "kickstarter" one term you can take literally.. it was designed to get projects "started".. i really don't expect anything more than a lot of good ideas to get me to want to fund a kickstarter.. you also, depending on how much you put in, get the chance to help with the very early development process in many of these game which is an added bonus for a lot of people. I personally think its usually a bit counter productive to show tech demos and such as they normally looks pretty "rough" and hardly ever show anything close to what the final game will look like

When you already have a team, have money, have a developer, and have an idea, it shouldn't be a challenge to come to the table with more than "ideas".  I would COMPLETELY respect that they came there with nothing if they were nobodies, if they had no team, etc..this was NOT the case.

 

This KS has been carried by a big name (MJ) the WHOLE time.  Even Shroud of the Avatar had an ACTUAL game to show, and they had a name behind it also, which is why it ACTUALLY FUNDED.  If he had all this money to invest INTO the game and the faith it would have succeeded he should have invested it first....let them build SOMETHING to show...then KS'd it.

 

Obviously he didn't have that much faith in it, though, and only wants to invest in his "baby" if there's little to no risk.  This is another reason why I wouldn't back it...not even the developer himself is willing to back it until he sees it fund.

Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

  augustgrace

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/29/06
Posts: 632

4/27/13 8:39:26 PM#107
Originally posted by vinland
Have any other mmo's funded on kickstarter? I'm curious because perhaps the reason CU isn't doing as well as other kickstarters with less information is because in general people may be less inclined to pledge to an mmo as the market has been rather lackluster for years. (my opinion of course)

Pathfinder Online is probably the biggest mmorpg to fund on KS.  $307k for the first KS for tech demo, then just over a million for the KS.  But for that second KS they gave themselves a month and a half rather than 30 days, had the tech demo and funding based off the demo from investors, and the second KS was really just to try and add more content and speed up development.

Probably would have been much smarter for MJ to do 2 KS'ers, or at the very least give the KS 60 days.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/27/13 8:49:50 PM#108
Originally posted by Cirin
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by chaintm

I will say it over and over, developer bible, i don't think it exist and that translated to a bad kickstarter. I WANTED to like this CU concept but it just wasn't clear enough or had real hard set goals. Just basic ideas and what it "might" have or "what we the devs want to have" , nothing concrete.

To me and I am sure many others, to back a kickstarter there has to be something there to  back., use my sig as a perfect example of "how to" do a good kickstarter.

not sure how people don't understand though its "kickstarter" one term you can take literally.. it was designed to get projects "started".. i really don't expect anything more than a lot of good ideas to get me to want to fund a kickstarter.. you also, depending on how much you put in, get the chance to help with the very early development process in many of these game which is an added bonus for a lot of people. I personally think its usually a bit counter productive to show tech demos and such as they normally looks pretty "rough" and hardly ever show anything close to what the final game will look like

When you already have a team, have money, have a developer, and have an idea, it shouldn't be a challenge to come to the table with more than "ideas".  I would COMPLETELY respect that they came there with nothing if they were nobodies, if they had no team, etc..this was NOT the case.

 

This KS has been carried by a big name (MJ) the WHOLE time.  Even Shroud of the Avatar had an ACTUAL game to show, and they had a name behind it also, which is why it ACTUALLY FUNDED.  If he had all this money to invest INTO the game and the faith it would have succeeded he should have invested it first....let them build SOMETHING to show...then KS'd it.

 

Obviously he didn't have that much faith in it, though, and only wants to invest in his "baby" if there's little to no risk.  This is another reason why I wouldn't back it...not even the developer himself is willing to back it until he sees it fund.

how do you think he is paying for all the time and effort all his employees are putting into this game right now and just to get this KS going? you honestly think he doesn't already have a large chunk of money invested into the game? He has already stated he was not sure if this type of game would be something enough people would get behind has nothing to do with faith in his game. I could have the best idea in the world for a game in my head but unless enough others think its great then its pretty pointless. KS is a great way for him to feel out how many would be interested in the project and he said he would put in a lot if it funded.. Who is to say the game will be a success even if it funds? what if it tanks? then he's out a lot of money again so not sure how you can say that's "safe" in any shape or form.

Also shroud had a rough alpha build which to me did it more harm than good because it looked pretty awful as many pre-alpha builds look.. but shroud had richard and the type of game appealed to a MUCH larger audience that's what it did well.  I funded shroud based on the ideas he presented not because of some very rough raw footage

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1144

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

4/27/13 8:55:37 PM#109
Originally posted by Mkilbride
 
 

 

Camelot Unchained, The Lighthouse in a Bleak Ocean

If you follow OnRPG you may have heard of a little project I’ve been backing since the early days of its announcement. From the proverbial dark ages for Fantasy MMORPGs came a shining light when one of the Pre-WoW Innovators of the online gaming industry emerged from his retirement to announce a title so full of risky untested features, major publishers like EA wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole. I’m talking about Mark Jacobs and his newest venture, City State Entertainment, now finished with their mobile title and ready to push the limits of what defines an MMORPG with Camelot Unchained’s kickstarter goal.

 

So tell me, does it make me a hero to put my money behind a project I truly believe in for my personal enjoyment? Not in any way. But if someone who doesn’t even want to play Camelot Unchained sees the bigger picture and throws a small donation behind it anyway… then something bigger than ourselves begins to occur. This game has the power to make a statement. To change everything. To bring back gaming communities the way they were known in the late 90s and early 2000s. A return to indie studios like the original Mythic Entertainment forged by 80s style game devs uniting to accomplish their vision of fun. The original Cryptic Studios formed by two guys that just “wanted to do an online role-playing game… with superheroes.” Risk takers like Origin Systems that will put their company name on the line for an untested experiment like Ultima just because a handful of developers knew they could make it work. CCP games that weren't daunted when everyone said copying World of Warcraft was the only way to make it in the online world, and stuck to their SciFi guns until it paid off.

Read the rest here:

http://www.onrpg.com/articles/editorial/camelot-unchained-the-final-countdown-for-a-kickstarter-and-an-industry/

 

Really inspiring article and well done. Gets your blood pumping!

 

 

 

Very well said!

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

4/27/13 9:14:49 PM#110
Originally posted by Mkilbride
 
 

 

Camelot Unchained, The Lighthouse in a Bleak Ocean

If you follow OnRPG you may have heard of a little project I’ve been backing since the early days of its announcement. From the proverbial dark ages for Fantasy MMORPGs came a shining light when one of the Pre-WoW Innovators of the online gaming industry emerged from his retirement to announce a title so full of risky untested features, major publishers like EA wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole. I’m talking about Mark Jacobs and his newest venture, City State Entertainment, now finished with their mobile title and ready to push the limits of what defines an MMORPG with Camelot Unchained’s kickstarter goal.

 

So tell me, does it make me a hero to put my money behind a project I truly believe in for my personal enjoyment? Not in any way. But if someone who doesn’t even want to play Camelot Unchained sees the bigger picture and throws a small donation behind it anyway… then something bigger than ourselves begins to occur. This game has the power to make a statement. To change everything. To bring back gaming communities the way they were known in the late 90s and early 2000s. A return to indie studios like the original Mythic Entertainment forged by 80s style game devs uniting to accomplish their vision of fun. The original Cryptic Studios formed by two guys that just “wanted to do an online role-playing game… with superheroes.” Risk takers like Origin Systems that will put their company name on the line for an untested experiment like Ultima just because a handful of developers knew they could make it work. CCP games that weren't daunted when everyone said copying World of Warcraft was the only way to make it in the online world, and stuck to their SciFi guns until it paid off.

Read the rest here:

http://www.onrpg.com/articles/editorial/camelot-unchained-the-final-countdown-for-a-kickstarter-and-an-industry/

 

Really inspiring article and well done. Gets your blood pumping!

 

 

 

Ok being enthusiastic about an idea is one thing, but positioning it as the lynch pin that could potentially shut the door on all indie development is pushing it. First of all, how many small mmo indie companies do you think will shoot for a 2 million dollar kickstarter goal for their first project or even have a big name developer? Especially when they are only looking for such a small playerbase of 50k subs? That is a VERY small drop in the bucket for any mmorpg and definitely not a attention getting number if you're looking to change the industry. But more importantly Mr. Jacob has personally told me and countless others that this is NOT OUR FIGHT. How you might say? By acknowledging right out the gate that:

 

It was made clear from day 1 by Mark that he isn't designing it for everyone. This article is directed at the fence sitters, the MMORPG industry enthusiasts, and even the luke warm backers that put some money down but haven’t mentioned it to others.

 

What if those fence sitters, MMORPG enthusiasts and luke warm backers are taking what Mr. Jacob said to heart? I consider myself a MMORPG enthusiast. But why should I stand behind a idea, with money, that is only trying to cater to 50k harcore RvR players? Like I said, I'm a enthusiast, but I'm not one dimensional. I don't have a problem buying something I've tried (or seen) because I like a large range of different mmos. But, when you throw around ideas like no PvE progression (even for leveling), stealth mechanics that incorporate this veil world instead of trying to keep players in the world where most of the fighting will be taking place, a potential PvE dungeon with no exp or loot drops and a exstensive crafting class and system that could be nothing more than a virtual punching bag for other classes... Yeah, things like that create lots and lots of fence sitters and luke warm backers.

 

But the real gem of that piece was this number:

 

If you’re reading this and have been watching the MMORPG industry as closely as I have, you know what I’m saying is reality. Camelot Unchained is an anomaly in an industry that's become filled with recycled ideas and dying profits. If it funds successfully (through a miracle at this point), it will show that the strength of the MMORPG community still stands together strong enough to overcome the bottom line power of the 1%. Of the NCSofts. Of the EAs. If it fails well.. Nexon knows they’ve won. Perfect World Entertainment will continue acquiring smaller talented studios to improve the gaming mill of releases. Jack Emmert will walk around gaming conventions looking like a zombie as he interviews gaming press like us with a paid smile on his face.

 

But how can you want to rally an entire MMORPG community when you're only trying to appeal to and please 50k players? Because last time I checked, the MMORPG community is fast approaching 20 million players world wide and the winds of change are already starting to shift with games like:

  • The Repopulation
  • Archeage
  • Black Desert
  • EQNext
  • Divergance Online
  • Orgins of Malu
All on the horizon. If CU doesn't fund it won't be the end of indie mmo developers, but it might be the end of rock star developers seeking to change the industry through Kickstarter.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  TigsKC

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 139

4/27/13 9:48:22 PM#111
Originally posted by Mkilbride
 
 

 

Camelot Unchained, The Lighthouse in a Bleak Ocean

If you follow OnRPG you may have heard of a little project I’ve been backing since the early days of its announcement. From the proverbial dark ages for Fantasy MMORPGs came a shining light when one of the Pre-WoW Innovators of the online gaming industry emerged from his retirement to announce a title so full of risky untested features, major publishers like EA wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole. I’m talking about Mark Jacobs and his newest venture, City State Entertainment, now finished with their mobile title and ready to push the limits of what defines an MMORPG with Camelot Unchained’s kickstarter goal.

 

So tell me, does it make me a hero to put my money behind a project I truly believe in for my personal enjoyment? Not in any way. But if someone who doesn’t even want to play Camelot Unchained sees the bigger picture and throws a small donation behind it anyway… then something bigger than ourselves begins to occur. This game has the power to make a statement. To change everything. To bring back gaming communities the way they were known in the late 90s and early 2000s. A return to indie studios like the original Mythic Entertainment forged by 80s style game devs uniting to accomplish their vision of fun. The original Cryptic Studios formed by two guys that just “wanted to do an online role-playing game… with superheroes.” Risk takers like Origin Systems that will put their company name on the line for an untested experiment like Ultima just because a handful of developers knew they could make it work. CCP games that weren't daunted when everyone said copying World of Warcraft was the only way to make it in the online world, and stuck to their SciFi guns until it paid off.

Read the rest here:

http://www.onrpg.com/articles/editorial/camelot-unchained-the-final-countdown-for-a-kickstarter-and-an-industry/

 

Really inspiring article and well done. Gets your blood pumping!

 

 

 

 

 

That was an excellent article.  Thanks for sharing it.

 

 

  Dahkoht

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 289

4/27/13 9:59:33 PM#112
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Mkilbride
 
 

 

Camelot Unchained, The Lighthouse in a Bleak Ocean

If you follow OnRPG you may have heard of a little project I’ve been backing since the early days of its announcement. From the proverbial dark ages for Fantasy MMORPGs came a shining light when one of the Pre-WoW Innovators of the online gaming industry emerged from his retirement to announce a title so full of risky untested features, major publishers like EA wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole. I’m talking about Mark Jacobs and his newest venture, City State Entertainment, now finished with their mobile title and ready to push the limits of what defines an MMORPG with Camelot Unchained’s kickstarter goal.

 

So tell me, does it make me a hero to put my money behind a project I truly believe in for my personal enjoyment? Not in any way. But if someone who doesn’t even want to play Camelot Unchained sees the bigger picture and throws a small donation behind it anyway… then something bigger than ourselves begins to occur. This game has the power to make a statement. To change everything. To bring back gaming communities the way they were known in the late 90s and early 2000s. A return to indie studios like the original Mythic Entertainment forged by 80s style game devs uniting to accomplish their vision of fun. The original Cryptic Studios formed by two guys that just “wanted to do an online role-playing game… with superheroes.” Risk takers like Origin Systems that will put their company name on the line for an untested experiment like Ultima just because a handful of developers knew they could make it work. CCP games that weren't daunted when everyone said copying World of Warcraft was the only way to make it in the online world, and stuck to their SciFi guns until it paid off.

Read the rest here:

http://www.onrpg.com/articles/editorial/camelot-unchained-the-final-countdown-for-a-kickstarter-and-an-industry/

 

Really inspiring article and well done. Gets your blood pumping!

 

 

 

Ok being enthusiastic about an idea is one thing, but positioning it as the lynch pin that could potentially shut the door on all indie development is pushing it. First of all, how many small mmo indie companies do you think will shoot for a 2 million dollar kickstarter goal for their first project or even have a big name developer? Especially when they are only looking for such a small playerbase of 50k subs? That is a VERY small drop in the bucket for any mmorpg and definitely not a attention getting number if you're looking to change the industry. But more importantly Mr. Jacob has personally told me and countless others that this is NOT OUR FIGHT. How you might say? By acknowledging right out the gate that:

 

It was made clear from day 1 by Mark that he isn't designing it for everyone. This article is directed at the fence sitters, the MMORPG industry enthusiasts, and even the luke warm backers that put some money down but haven’t mentioned it to others.

 

What if those fence sitters, MMORPG enthusiasts and luke warm backers are taking what Mr. Jacob said to heart? I consider myself a MMORPG enthusiast. But why should I stand behind a idea, with money, that is only trying to cater to 50k harcore RvR players? Like I said, I'm a enthusiast, but I'm not one dimensional. I don't have a problem buying something I've tried (or seen) because I like a large range of different mmos. But, when you throw around ideas like no PvE progression (even for leveling), stealth mechanics that incorporate this veil world instead of trying to keep players in the world where most of the fighting will be taking place, a potential PvE dungeon with no exp or loot drops and a exstensive crafting class and system that could be nothing more than a virtual punching bag for other classes... Yeah, things like that create lots and lots of fence sitters and luke warm backers.

 

But the real gem of that piece was this number:

 

If you’re reading this and have been watching the MMORPG industry as closely as I have, you know what I’m saying is reality. Camelot Unchained is an anomaly in an industry that's become filled with recycled ideas and dying profits. If it funds successfully (through a miracle at this point), it will show that the strength of the MMORPG community still stands together strong enough to overcome the bottom line power of the 1%. Of the NCSofts. Of the EAs. If it fails well.. Nexon knows they’ve won. Perfect World Entertainment will continue acquiring smaller talented studios to improve the gaming mill of releases. Jack Emmert will walk around gaming conventions looking like a zombie as he interviews gaming press like us with a paid smile on his face.

 

But how can you want to rally an entire MMORPG community when you're only trying to appeal to and please 50k players? Because last time I checked, the MMORPG community is fast approaching 20 million players world wide and the winds of change are already starting to shift with games like:

  • The Repopulation
  • Archeage
  • Black Desert
  • EQNext
  • Divergance Online
  • Orgins of Malu
All on the horizon. If CU doesn't fund it won't be the end of indie mmo developers, but it might be the end of rock star developers seeking to change the industry through Kickstarter.

That's being generous to be honest.

It's more like ridiculous hyperbole.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

4/27/13 10:00:56 PM#113
If anything it shows that RVR is finally dead, a thing of the past. There aren't a lot of backers for the Kickstarter and that should tell you something right there. Also most players want to see the game in action before they pledge money. Having none of that is a deal breaker for many. You have to have some sort of demo, ideas alone just won't cut it.
  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7437

"Really officer, they're herbs."

4/27/13 10:04:44 PM#114
If CU doesn't get funded, the industry will just keep chugging along as it always has. 

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4889

4/27/13 10:15:41 PM#115
Originally posted by Teala
If CU doesn't get funded, the industry will just keep chugging along as it always has. 

If CU does manage to get funded, the industry will just keep chugging along as it always has. 

 

edited to fix typo :P 

  GwapoJosh

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/12
Posts: 1012

4/27/13 10:18:31 PM#116
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Teala
If CU doesn't get funded, the industry will just keep chugging along as it always has. 

If CU does manage to get funded, the indistry will just keep chugging along as it always has. 

Agree and agree :)

"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

4/28/13 1:24:19 AM#117
Originally posted by Teala
If CU doesn't get funded, the industry will just keep chugging along as it always has. 

CU is insignifcant to the industry.  It only matters to those who want to play it.

 

Ridiculous topics like this probably dissuade more people from pledging than persuading them.  

  Siug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1139

4/28/13 1:29:42 AM#118
Most problems MMOs currently have are related to lazy devs but CU devs are ultralazy, selling just their thoughts. If CU gets funded we'll see a lot of other devs too lazy to make even a demo when asking for money.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3174

I actually still like MMORPGs

4/28/13 1:37:40 AM#119

CU is gonna change the world with it's niche audience! Anyone else think Mark Jacobs talking about wanting a niche audience is just a way of covering his ass if it fails? Oh, we always expected the player base to be small.

That article was a little too dramatic for my tastes. CU isn't that innovative. It's DAOC with half of the game missing.

  Navek

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/06
Posts: 72

4/28/13 3:36:30 AM#120
Originally posted by Normandy7
If anything it shows that RVR is finally dead, a thing of the past. There aren't a lot of backers for the Kickstarter and that should tell you something right there. Also most players want to see the game in action before they pledge money. Having none of that is a deal breaker for many. You have to have some sort of demo, ideas alone just won't cut it.

 Again in the same thread, Strawman srguements, if one kickstarter from a small indie company fails how does that equate to RvR being dead, stupid arguement with no foundations. Explain the money spent on and success of GW2, TESO for example.

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