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Defiance

Defiance 

General Discussion  » Why all this single player crap in an MMO?

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61 posts found
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

4/27/13 5:18:27 AM#41
Originally posted by eAzydaman

Why all this single player crap in an MMO?

Because despite our best efforts, we still can't get all of  our players to enjoy exactly the same things.

Their lack of conformist indoctrination is sometimes very disturbing.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Pala

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/06
Posts: 103

4/27/13 5:28:33 AM#42

I don't play MMOs anymore because they are too solo oriented and soloing is just plain boring. I mean how many millions of NPCs can you kill and find it interesting. If I have to interact and work out strategies with my teammates then I will happily pay whatever is asked, but I just wont do single player MMOs. Unfortunately, thats all of them right now!

Currently, I play World of Tanks - 15 v 15, not much cooperation or strategies just noobs rushing each other but still better than everything on the single player MMO market.

In fact I dont even bother looking at the new MMOs being produced as I expect them all to be the same crap just different packaging.

 

  Wololo

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 74

4/27/13 5:42:08 AM#43
Originally posted by fallenlords

I like MMO's but I don't like people.  So being able to solo content as a single player is a must for me.  I only like to group when I feel like grouping.  The odd day in the year when I am feeling social.   Defiance I like because it does have Ad hoc grouping through normal quests.  Which forces me to be a little bit more social than I like to be, and takes me out of my comfort zone.    I don't like the fact that as a single player in a lot of MMO's certain content is unavailable to me.    I try to solo everything, which doesn't normally end well.

 

Overall it's up to the game, not to force me to participate, but to gently nudge me in that direction.   I think Defiance does that quite well.  Fallen Earth I found was a game that seemed to have a bit of Ad hoc grouping. Most MMO's you only really experience the full potential of the game if you join guilds etc, which is kind of too heavy for some people. 

Umm... Please explain your first sentence to me, because everything past that doesnt matter unless you can make sense of it.

 

If you like MMO's, you like interacting with people. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

If you do NOT like interacting with people, you do NOT like MMO's. Clear as day.

 

So why are you an MMO player? Why does your kind ruin these games and this genre because you are an antisocial MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game player?

 

Go back to SPRPGs please!

  Wololo

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 74

4/27/13 5:48:57 AM#44
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

Ugh. GET OUT!

  StonesDK

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1839

4/27/13 5:50:33 AM#45
Originally posted by Wololo
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

Ugh. GET OUT!

Relax Francis

You are too emotionally invested. Time to re-evaluate your participation. Maybe even your life

 

MMOs have a living thriving economy and quite often an auction house which can be a meta game all on it's own for those with the skill to manipulate the market properly. Then there's the fact some people enjoy being around others but not necessarily interact, you know the living breathing world part. You can also trade with people without having to group with them. There's actually quite a few advantages to play MMOs as an anti social git

 

Not only that but right now he's confined to what's basically a singleplayer game. Maybe you should encourage him to stay there instead? You know in your own best interest

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/27/13 6:42:01 AM#46

"Why all this single player crap in an MMO?"

 

Over the past ten or fifteen years, a combination of single-player and multi-player content has proven to make for a good MMO for a lot of people across the spectrum of MMO gamers.  

Examples: Ultima Online, Free Realms, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Puzzle Pirates, Runescape, Maple Story, Mabinogi.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  eAzydaman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 220

 
OP  4/27/13 7:44:11 AM#47
Originally posted by Pala

I don't play MMOs anymore because they are too solo oriented and soloing is just plain boring. I mean how many millions of NPCs can you kill and find it interesting. If I have to interact and work out strategies with my teammates then I will happily pay whatever is asked, but I just wont do single player MMOs. Unfortunately, thats all of them right now!

Currently, I play World of Tanks - 15 v 15, not much cooperation or strategies just noobs rushing each other but still better than everything on the single player MMO market.

In fact I dont even bother looking at the new MMOs being produced as I expect them all to be the same crap just different packaging.

 

2 words. Camelot Unchained. Far fetched I know but it might happen :) Kickstarter is looking pretty bad now though, they need 500k in 5 days :/

  tazarconan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 1022

4/27/13 8:06:10 AM#48
Originally posted by fallenlords

I like MMO's but I don't like people. 

There was a time where when at 6 in the morning in the bus stop ppl were greating eachother with good mornings etc.

Now if a stranger tells u good morning u ll wonder yourself what the heck he wants.

This has nothing to do with Fallenlords statement ,its a very bad symptom of where the 9 hells our specie is walking into.And its very bad ppl.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

4/27/13 8:13:04 AM#49
Originally posted by Eluldor
Originally posted by eAzydaman
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Atleast in AOC and SWTOR there is an option to take a friend with you if you don't want to solo story.. In Defiane you are forced to solo story missions.

Yeah I agree, if you can do them to their full potential with other people I'm fine with it. Guild Wars 2 almost had it but in some mission you couldn't do much as the one helping, just distract mobs etc.

You should be able to do the quest/mission at the same time with equal involvement from all the players and with difficulty scaling.

The co-op missions in Defiance are alot of fun. They should have made 20 more of those instead of the main story IMO.

From my experience in the game, you're both wrong. I had already done the main story mission with the lawkeeper and the sniper boss on the barn. The next day, I grouped up with my brother who hadn't done that main quest yet. He started it and I joined his phase for the mission. Resaw the cutscenes and everything.

So you're wrong, unless I experienced a bug lol. Or if the option is only there to repeat the main quest via a team member who hand't yet - makes no sense though haha.

Serious question, did you actually try to do a main mission in a team or just talking. That goes for everyone. What else do people want to randomly complain about next?

Edited: to address others than the OP solely :)

Easy there bro. Did you even bother to understand that we are talking about instanced solo missions here? yes we know that you can do story missions with others in open world but when comparison was made with games like SWTOR for example we were talking about instanced content. And yes you have no option to take your friend with you in there.

So yes we did play Defiance and we know what we are talking about. 

  WW4BW

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 492

4/27/13 10:50:48 AM#50
Originally posted by tazarconan
Originally posted by fallenlords

I like MMO's but I don't like people. 

There was a time where when at 6 in the morning in the bus stop ppl were greating eachother with good mornings etc.

Now if a stranger tells u good morning u ll wonder yourself what the heck he wants.

This has nothing to do with Fallenlords statement ,its a very bad symptom of where the 9 hells our specie is walking into.And its very bad ppl.

 Too true.. Think it might have something to do with the population size and how far they travel each day.

 Im sure there are still places where almost everyone you run into is a familiar face. and there they will even greet strangers.

 But when we travel far to go to school and work. And leisure activites are institutionalized. We encounter so many people on our way from one activity to another.. People that, simply put, dont matter to us. It is now wasted effort to greet someone.. We'll never see them again, so why bother. Used to be, that if you saw a stranger, they might be there to stay or not.. But it would be an concious effort to not say hello to them.

I bothered with that, since in MMOs the general userbase is now hundreds of times larger than it used to be. Players are constantly moving from action to action and have to make a concious choice to engage other people in conversation. MMOs were so hyped after WoW that many try the games for a while and then move on, meaning that many arent there to stay.. So why bother trying to engage people in conversation when you probably wont see them again.. They might even be from another server and you only meet them that one time.

So people become curt and rude. Boss you around if they want you to do something. No relations grow, especially since other players dont really have anything to offer in MMOs these days... You might as well be playing with NPCs.. They are completly interchangable. 

So it is no small wonder why a large part of MMO players prefer soloing.

  BrucyBonus

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 224

4/27/13 10:55:23 AM#51

Defiance is essentially a single player game with mmo add-ons. And the mmo elements are frustrating due to damage etc being handled client side with the effect that there is a huge amount of hacking; therefore pvp in particular is unplayable (there is also only one pvp build that works, cloak and shotgun).  

When you look at the top 3 in any of the rampages/ time trials etc, the leader always has an unacheivable score if played within the rules.  

But I agree that the trend towards solo play in mmo's is a shame.  I want a populated world to play in, and yes I want to be able to solo content, but I do not want a single player game in mmo clothes.  

  WW4BW

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/03/06
Posts: 492

4/27/13 12:55:10 PM#52
Originally posted by BrucyBonus

Defiance is essentially a single player game with mmo add-ons. And the mmo elements are frustrating due to damage etc being handled client side with the effect that there is a huge amount of hacking; therefore pvp in particular is unplayable (there is also only one pvp build that works, cloak and shotgun).  

When you look at the top 3 in any of the rampages/ time trials etc, the leader always has an unacheivable score if played within the rules.  

But I agree that the trend towards solo play in mmo's is a shame.  I want a populated world to play in, and yes I want to be able to solo content, but I do not want a single player game in mmo clothes.  

 Ooops

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

4/27/13 2:58:54 PM#53
Originally posted by Wololo
Originally posted by fallenlords

I like MMO's but I don't like people. 

Umm... Please explain your first sentence to me, because everything past that doesnt matter unless you can make sense of it.

 

If you like MMO's, you like interacting with people. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

If you do NOT like interacting with people, you do NOT like MMO's. Clear as day.

 

So why are you an MMO player? Why does your kind ruin these games and this genre because you are an antisocial MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game player?

 

Go back to SPRPGs please!

I liked people once, when I first started playing MMO's I even dabbled with RP and had a great time.  I just slowly went off people.  I always found being social in an MMO more of a struggle, than a simple online multiplayer game.  Majority of people are anti-social I find in MMO's unless you are part of a group, a guild etc.  Their advice, find a group, a guild etc.  Not much of the social aspects in an MMO feels organic to me, it feels strained and heavily segmented.  But I like the MMO concept and for the most part the structure, so I like the games.  I just don't like people any more.  As I am also very opinionated I think the feeling is quite mutual in a lot of cases.

  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1788

4/27/13 3:11:43 PM#54
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by Wololo
Originally posted by fallenlords

I like MMO's but I don't like people. 

Umm... Please explain your first sentence to me, because everything past that doesnt matter unless you can make sense of it.

 

If you like MMO's, you like interacting with people. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

If you do NOT like interacting with people, you do NOT like MMO's. Clear as day.

 

So why are you an MMO player? Why does your kind ruin these games and this genre because you are an antisocial MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game player?

 

Go back to SPRPGs please!

I liked people once, when I first started playing MMO's I even dabbled with RP and had a great time.  I just slowly went off people.  I always found being social in an MMO more of a struggle, than a simple online multiplayer game.  Majority of people are anti-social I find in MMO's unless you are part of a group, a guild etc.  Their advice, find a group, a guild etc.  Not much of the social aspects in an MMO feels organic to me, it feels strained and heavily segmented.  But I like the MMO concept and for the most part the structure, so I like the games.  I just don't like people any more.  As I am also very opinionated I think the feeling is quite mutual in a lot of cases.

You know you really don't need to explain to anyone on why you play a game.  They should be glad that you are supporting the same game they are playing so that it doesn't go tits up due to a lack of a PAYING customer/player base. 

This isn't just isn't for Defiance, but all MMOs and those who play them.  To many times we see certain groups of people feel that a genre should only cater to their playstyle.  That's just simply narcissism at it's finest.  They need to realize that devs aren't making games just for their playstyle, but for a wide margin of people to enjoy.  It's called smart business.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 734

Permafried

4/27/13 3:21:38 PM#55

In my nearly 8 years here, I am pretty sure I have only ever *started* a thread perhaps a handful of times. 

This has nothing to do with the OP of this thread.  It's just a thought, a thought that I didn't think warranted a new thread.  Also a thought I have had for a very long time.

Anyone else ever get the feeling that some people wrack their brain trying to figure out a good Original Post to throw out there for us?  Like they try to find things that are already tired of being beaten, or sublte trolling, etc?  I suppose when I put it *that* way, it's hard to disagree.  I guess I'm having a hard time putting into words my point.

Yeah, me too.

 

Anyhoo..  I know Defiance has been buggy since release, and they are working on it.  I can honestly say, however, that I have never received a reward for doing an Arkfall.  They were fun anyway, and many times involved a lot of deaths, but an end reward would be nice.  At least *something* - more akin to Rifts in Rift.

So, you take that, add it into the mix, and I get rewarded more for solo/duo play than group play.  This does not stop me from doing group play, but you can see why it would push someone that direction.

Playing: EverQuest, RiFT, Defiance, APB:Reloaded
Mourning: World of Darkness, Vanguard, City of Heroes



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  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

4/27/13 4:19:58 PM#56
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by Eluldor
Originally posted by eAzydaman
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Atleast in AOC and SWTOR there is an option to take a friend with you if you don't want to solo story.. In Defiane you are forced to solo story missions.

Yeah I agree, if you can do them to their full potential with other people I'm fine with it. Guild Wars 2 almost had it but in some mission you couldn't do much as the one helping, just distract mobs etc.

You should be able to do the quest/mission at the same time with equal involvement from all the players and with difficulty scaling.

The co-op missions in Defiance are alot of fun. They should have made 20 more of those instead of the main story IMO.

From my experience in the game, you're both wrong. I had already done the main story mission with the lawkeeper and the sniper boss on the barn. The next day, I grouped up with my brother who hadn't done that main quest yet. He started it and I joined his phase for the mission. Resaw the cutscenes and everything.

So you're wrong, unless I experienced a bug lol. Or if the option is only there to repeat the main quest via a team member who hand't yet - makes no sense though haha.

Serious question, did you actually try to do a main mission in a team or just talking. That goes for everyone. What else do people want to randomly complain about next?

Edited: to address others than the OP solely :)

Easy there bro. Did you even bother to understand that we are talking about instanced solo missions here? yes we know that you can do story missions with others in open world but when comparison was made with games like SWTOR for example we were talking about instanced content. And yes you have no option to take your friend with you in there.

So yes we did play Defiance and we know what we are talking about. 

Now I'm just confused. You state that you are forced to solo story missions (the big [!] ones) as if all the story missions are solo only. Are these accessable via the UI somewhere like the dungeons/co-op maps? I only have like 500 ego on my main, so maybe I'm missing something.

However, the Main Story Missions (the big [!] marks, not the small ones) that go into a phase/instance that removes you from interaction with the rest of the map are teamable - as my prior example explained how I joined a phase for the Lawkeeper one where the ark item is stolen and has that rocket launcher boss on a barn, where I pretty much just sniped him. Did it solo, did it in a group - how is that different than what you're saying as solo story mission?

So what is going on, what missions can't you team up for? Are you talking about Racing and Killing mass nunbers of baddies missions? Those aren't story missions.

  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

4/27/13 4:23:49 PM#57
Originally posted by Acidon

Anyhoo..  I know Defiance has been buggy since release, and they are working on it.  I can honestly say, however, that I have never received a reward for doing an Arkfall.  They were fun anyway, and many times involved a lot of deaths, but an end reward would be nice.  At least *something* - more akin to Rifts in Rift.

So, you take that, add it into the mix, and I get rewarded more for solo/duo play than group play.  This does not stop me from doing group play, but you can see why it would push someone that direction.

Do you keep doing the arkfalls until they are cleared on the red area on the map. Sometimes this takes like doing 5 or so of them. I normally get some green drops at the lesser arkfalls (they appear right next to it), but at the end event a screen pops up with rewards and player stats. Sometimes that screen is buggy though :/

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5693

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

4/27/13 4:34:44 PM#58
Originally posted by Tonin109
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

why do you play mmo if you play mmo

 

Playing around people doesnt mean playing with them. In mmos i play alone most of the time, but i like to have people online wandering around, tahts why i personally love mmos. Otherwise i would stick to single player games. With that said, i still prefer multiplayer interaction in mmos.

 

Developers are adding both to mmos, multiplayer and solo content. The big problem is that they are doing it wrong. They focus on solo content and add multiplayer as an afterthought. It should be the total opossite, focus on great, innovative, fresh, and varied multiplayer content while adding solo content as an after thought for those who want to solo the mmo. Its an mmo, focus must be on multiplayer. Its OK to have solo content, but not as the main focus of an mmo

  eAzydaman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 220

 
OP  4/28/13 1:45:53 AM#59
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Tonin109
Originally posted by Shadanwolf

99% of the time I play solo.I'm not attracted to games that force a certain playstyle on me.I want ample solo content...or I won't play. It's that simple

I want to play when i want to play...as long as I want to play....and not be forced to endure  other players  playstyle that is to dissimilar from mine. 

why do you play mmo if you play mmo

 

Playing around people doesnt mean playing with them. In mmos i play alone most of the time, but i like to have people online wandering around, tahts why i personally love mmos. Otherwise i would stick to single player games. With that said, i still prefer multiplayer interaction in mmos.

 

Developers are adding both to mmos, multiplayer and solo content. The big problem is that they are doing it wrong. They focus on solo content and add multiplayer as an afterthought. It should be the total opossite, focus on great, innovative, fresh, and varied multiplayer content while adding solo content as an after thought for those who want to solo the mmo. Its an mmo, focus must be on multiplayer. Its OK to have solo content, but not as the main focus of an mmo

Perfect post, excatly what I meant with this thread. Ofc content should be soloable but it shouldn't be the main focus when deveolping an MMO.

That said, I really like Defiance. Co-op missions, defence events and arkfalls and the PVP is great combined with fluid shooting mechanics. Worth every penny and I suspect I will play it for a couple of 100 hours :)

  sexypanda198

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 160

4/28/13 1:51:07 AM#60
True players can solo more these days but most mmo's i have played limit that by adding pvp and/or heroics. SWTOR for example sure you could solo but if you want best gear you have to pvp and/or group in some form. So there are still groups they are just giving players more options how to play.

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