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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Camelot Unchained: The Final Countdown for a Kickstarter, and an Industry

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200 posts found
  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 1971

4/27/13 11:16:09 AM#61
Uh, kickstarter IS begging.  It's begging to the core.  Don't delude yourself.  All these other games get investors to put money in and fund games.  Even these crap Asian F2ps can secure investors.  kickstarters reason for existing is for people who can't secure actual investors..... Like Camelot Unchained.  You're BEGGING for money to reach 2 million so you can get more investors interested....
  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 1971

4/27/13 11:17:50 AM#62
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Rotak

The only "industry impact" related to CU is that, if all goes well and it ends up with a healthy number of subscriptions and generates money, it will show that niche MMOs can be financially successful. That could lead to more diversity in the MMO marketplace, which is desperately needed.

MMO's have been niche before it became mainstream. EQ, WoW, UO, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Vanguard, etc. are all games that were essentially niche. Whether they appeal to the masses pulls them out of that "niche" catagory.

... And every game mentioned was able to secure funding without begging the masses to get the game developed.  As is, kickstarter games are starting to fail after achieving successful bids.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2559

4/27/13 11:20:15 AM#63
Originally posted by Ikeda
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Rotak

The only "industry impact" related to CU is that, if all goes well and it ends up with a healthy number of subscriptions and generates money, it will show that niche MMOs can be financially successful. That could lead to more diversity in the MMO marketplace, which is desperately needed.

MMO's have been niche before it became mainstream. EQ, WoW, UO, DAoC, Anarchy Online, Vanguard, etc. are all games that were essentially niche. Whether they appeal to the masses pulls them out of that "niche" catagory.

... And every game mentioned was able to secure funding without begging the masses to get the game developed.  As is, kickstarter games are starting to fail after achieving successful bids.

What does your comment have to do with anything about niche or not? I'm sorry but you have to kiss some major ass at the beginning regardless of how the money is funded to get an idea going. In your logic even major funding from coorperations is begging.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Danwarr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/09
Posts: 190

"Prepare for Titanfall."

4/27/13 11:20:45 AM#64
Originally posted by Ikeda
Uh, kickstarter IS begging.  It's begging to the core.  Don't delude yourself.  All these other games get investors to put money in and fund games.  Even these crap Asian F2ps can secure investors.  kickstarters reason for existing is for people who can't secure actual investors..... Like Camelot Unchained.  You're BEGGING for money to reach 2 million so you can get more investors interested....

Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2559

4/27/13 11:22:35 AM#65
Originally posted by Danwarr
Originally posted by Ikeda
Uh, kickstarter IS begging.  It's begging to the core.  Don't delude yourself.  All these other games get investors to put money in and fund games.  Even these crap Asian F2ps can secure investors.  kickstarters reason for existing is for people who can't secure actual investors..... Like Camelot Unchained.  You're BEGGING for money to reach 2 million so you can get more investors interested....

Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

 I can totally agree to this, kickstarting is to invest in an idea that a company has purposed.  This has nothing to do with begging as the money that's used by the company is for the product they're producing.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

4/27/13 11:27:33 AM#66
Originally posted by Danwarr

Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

 

Originally posted by Mkilbride

But if someone who doesn’t even want to play Camelot Unchained sees the bigger picture and throws a small donation behind it anyway…

---------------------------

I guess the OP fits your criteria pretty accurately.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2559

4/27/13 11:36:27 AM#67
Originally posted by Ikeda
Originally posted by Danwarr

Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

We just making up random definitions to fit a false argument now?

 

beg  (bg)

v. begged, beg·ging, begs

v.tr.

1. To ask for as charity: begged money while sitting in a doorway.

2. To ask earnestly for or of; entreat: begged me for help.

3.

a. To evade; dodge: a speech that begged the real issues.

b. To take for granted without proof: beg the point in a dispute.

v.intr.

1. To solicit alms.

2. To make a humble or urgent plea.

 
And yes, I can understand how looking for investors could be construed as begging, but it isn't.  Going to an investor is COMPLETELY different than doing a fund raiser in order to even get an investor.

 This is an investment opportunity, the people have the ability to obtain something they want out of this and all they have to do is fund it. I don't see how you're assuming this is "begging". You can easily construe the words for begging just like you are now.

in·vest

  [in-vest]  Show IPA

verb (used with object)

1.to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in somethingoffering potential profitable returns as interest, income, orappreciation in value.

2.to use (money), as in accumulating something: to invest largesums in books.

3.to use, give, or devote (time, talent, etc.), as for a purpose orto achieve something

4.to furnish with power, authority, rank, etc.

5.to furnish or endow with a power, right, etc.

 

 

 

 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2635

4/27/13 11:44:00 AM#68

I am not in huge favor of giving a kickstarter a lot of money, if I were giving $10,000 or something, I would want a stake in it, i could see peoples arguments for that.  If you are giving $10-250 or whatever, no so much, you get a game and items, just like any game or collectors edition being sold by other companies.  Never seen a $10,000 collectors edition, even though you usually get to meet the developers and such, but I guess if you can afford the $10,000, it probably means it would be like someone else maybe doing the $250.

 

Point being, I can see where someone is 'begging' for others to help, but the CU is not begging, due to getting something in return.

 

I do not get a paperback copy of a homeless guys poems/thoughts, when I put some money in his cup, he is begging, I can see a difference.

 

I am not a CU backer, but I would like to see it fund, just because a lot of people are passionate about it, and I may even play when it comes out if I like the final product.  I am not sold enough to donate, I have thought about doing so though, at the minimum level to get a copy of the game...Not like it would kill me if I didn't end up liking it.  I would have dropped much more on other mmos/games that I did not like in the end.  I am kind of on a must try before I buy kick now though....Been way too many garbage games coming out.  I wouldn't play them if they payed me a sub for doing so.

 

  gylnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 324

4/27/13 11:50:57 AM#69
Originally posted by tinuelle
Originally posted by Navek
Originally posted by Tierless

The problem is if it fails it gives all the corporate people that keep ruining our games more sway to say "see, they dont want innovation".

Thats a Strawman arguement, worthless and pointless with no basis in fact in the slightest.

But it would be reasonable to think that RvR/PvP centric MMOs might not be the way to go in the future. It is a less popular genre, and WoW copies are probably more revenue generating.

Mark is making a rvr niche game and could really careless about generating tons of revenue.

Noticed lately large companies spending 100 million, 200 milion on a game that caters to all people and in  less than a year converting to f2p? If copying Wow was working this would not be happening.

  Kreedz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 445

4/27/13 11:56:19 AM#70

I am a Backer also, and while I am enthusiatic about the project and hope to see it get it funded, these discussions wouldn't be cropping up in the first place if the crowdfunding campaign was/is handled a little better, by both CSE & the community at large.

Another project I backed, Star Citizen, is a prime example of how a Kickstarter should be handled IMO. Chris Roberts had a full-blown Tech Demo showcasing their engine & physics before he even started, and he was able to get a lot of press coverage by going out and showing his tech demo at various events.

Word of mouth is still one of the strongest ways of marketing in this day & age, unfortunately not many people realise just how effective it can be...

So having said that, I believe in CU and CSE to deliver a great game & product, but I think they may have started their campaign a bit too early in their development cycle. If you want to sell an Idea they should have had a working prototype at the very least, not just a short video showcasing their engine work (which I could knock-up in a day or two myself using 3DS Max & Unity).

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  Thebrave246

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/07
Posts: 167

4/27/13 11:57:32 AM#71
Lol an industry? No way Mr. Overdramatic over here. No way is this game weighing in on the entire MMORPG industry. Lmao there's much more MMORPGS on the horizon.
  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

4/27/13 12:08:28 PM#72

This CU beg-a-thon stuff is getting painful. If it doesn't get funded it's because people don't want to, for a plethora of reasons, which include but are not limited to:

-Mark Jacobs hasn't made a decent game in a decade

-He made no attempt to fix Warhammer, why would he stick with CU?

-You have no say in what the end product will be even though it's made with your money.

-Many see kickstarters as a scam and I agree

-Nothing will prevent him from seeking a 3rd party promotion in the months to come even if the kickstart succeeds, putting you right back to sqaure one.

-Game is running on pure hype, no demos to speak of, no reliable info, nothing.

-Your money could literally be flushed down the toilet. Hitting the mark ensures the game is attempted, not launched.

-By the time this game is made you could have interest in something else entirely

-In the end he took a check and walked away from every project he's ever been involved with, he's not your hero sorry

And much more

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

4/27/13 12:08:46 PM#73

I have no wish to see CU NOT funded.I'm interested in the concepts it theoritically proposes but not enough to want to back it personally and think it too narrow in focus for myself.

But that article is over dramatic,extremely biased and just a little bit too whiney for me to take seriously sorry.

  jesteralways

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 546

4/27/13 12:12:47 PM#74
4 days to go and nearly 532K required to fill up the 2mil mark. that's a shame, i really liked what mark jacobs said about f2p model, too bad now his project might have to go that way. 

No panties, No Life

  Danwarr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/09
Posts: 190

"Prepare for Titanfall."

4/27/13 12:13:11 PM#75
Originally posted by Ikeda
Originally posted by Danwarr

Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

We just making up random definitions to fit a false argument now?

 

beg  (bg)

v. begged, beg·ging, begs

v.tr.

1. To ask for as charity: begged money while sitting in a doorway.

2. To ask earnestly for or of; entreat: begged me for help.

3.

a. To evade; dodge: a speech that begged the real issues.

b. To take for granted without proof: beg the point in a dispute.

v.intr.

1. To solicit alms.

2. To make a humble or urgent plea.

 
And yes, I can understand how looking for investors could be construed as begging, but it isn't.  Going to an investor is COMPLETELY different than doing a fund raiser in order to even get an investor.

I did't make up that definition. All I did was pull that from wikipedia. If you want to think the Kickstarter is a begger's fund, that is your prerogative.

Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  Ikeda

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 1971

4/27/13 12:29:06 PM#76
Originally posted by Danwarr

I did't make up that definition. All I did was pull that from wikipedia. If you want to think the Kickstarter is a begger's fund, that is your prerogative.

Somebody needs to go an edit that wikipedia entry then.  And Kickstarter IS for beggars.  Every single one of them wants something you can give (i.e. money).  Nothing wrong with it.

I have 2 problems:

1)  The fanatics on this website have launched their own little jihad of terror.  They bump posts, offer nothing useful, purposely divert conversations on other forums, troll, and in general do a disservice to the entire community.   There have been MULTIPLE threads where they've attempted to garner further "attention" by doing this little militant forum posts.

2)  There are TONS of games on here, none of which needed to "beg" for Kickstarter to be made.  I get it.  KS is new and trendy and all these dev's see is money going cha-ching by their eyes like a Warner Bros. cartoon.  It's not the right way to secure funding.  And just as bad, even once they achieve their goals there is no gurantee about return.  Say they make 2mil but somewhere next year they go backrupt, have fallout, some unknown contractual agreement falls through.  Then what?  2 mill went POOF and we have ZERO legal ability to get our money back.  This is MORE depressing when you see all of the whales on the CU kickstarter page.  10K for a game that you may not even see a return on?  What's that?  A 10K donation? 

  tinuelle

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 290

It's all about pushing the right buttons

4/27/13 12:49:58 PM#77
Originally posted by Thebrave246
Lol an industry? No way Mr. Overdramatic over here. No way is this game weighing in on the entire MMORPG industry. Lmao there's much more MMORPGS on the horizon.

And name one of them which is not gonna be a complete and utterly failed disaster?

havent been a good MMO in Ages.

  Danwarr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/09
Posts: 190

"Prepare for Titanfall."

4/27/13 12:56:54 PM#78
Originally posted by Ikeda
Originally posted by Danwarr

I did't make up that definition. All I did was pull that from wikipedia. If you want to think the Kickstarter is a begger's fund, that is your prerogative.

Somebody needs to go an edit that wikipedia entry then.  And Kickstarter IS for beggars.  Every single one of them wants something you can give (i.e. money).  Nothing wrong with it.

I just more generally associated begging with charity. I view Kickstarter more as a pre-order type thing.

I have 2 problems:

1)  The fanatics on this website have launched their own little jihad of terror.  They bump posts, offer nothing useful, purposely divert conversations on other forums, troll, and in general do a disservice to the entire community.   There have been MULTIPLE threads where they've attempted to garner further "attention" by doing this little militant forum posts.

I agree that CU backers are guilty of this forum war. All threads regarding the Kickstarter need to consolidated, both the positive and negative ones.

2)  There are TONS of games on here, none of which needed to "beg" for Kickstarter to be made.  I get it.  KS is new and trendy and all these dev's see is money going cha-ching by their eyes like a Warner Bros. cartoon.  It's not the right way to secure funding.  And just as bad, even once they achieve their goals there is no gurantee about return.  Say they make 2mil but somewhere next year they go backrupt, have fallout, some unknown contractual agreement falls through.  Then what?  2 mill went POOF and we have ZERO legal ability to get our money back.  This is MORE depressing when you see all of the whales on the CU kickstarter page.  10K for a game that you may not even see a return on?  What's that?  A 10K donation? 

From the Kickstarter Terms of Use

Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
If CSE were to go bankrupt, I believe a bankruptcy court would have to sort out how some of the larger backers would be compensated. 
Personally, I haven't pledged enough to worry about that should something that catastrophic happen. I wont be too heartbroken about losing my pledge.
If the Kickstarter funds, I have full confidence Mark Jacobs and CSE will finish the project. I guess I'm just more optimistic and trusting in that regard.

Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape

  Grimbor

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/13
Posts: 24

4/27/13 1:35:58 PM#79
Originally posted by Ikeda
Originally posted by Danwarr

Begging - the practice of imploring others to grant a favor, often a gift of money, with little or no expectation of reciprocation.

We just making up random definitions to fit a false argument now?

 

beg  (bg)

v. begged, beg·ging, begs

v.tr.

1. To ask for as charity: begged money while sitting in a doorway.

2. To ask earnestly for or of; entreat: begged me for help.

3.

a. To evade; dodge: a speech that begged the real issues.

b. To take for granted without proof: beg the point in a dispute.

v.intr.

1. To solicit alms.

2. To make a humble or urgent plea.

 
And yes, I can understand how looking for investors could be construed as begging, but it isn't.  Going to an investor is COMPLETELY different than doing a fund raiser in order to even get an investor.

Kickstarter is not begging.  It is called patronage.  Get out your dictionary and look up that word genius.

  Navek

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/06
Posts: 72

4/27/13 1:49:43 PM#80
Originally posted by tinuelle
Originally posted by Navek
Originally posted by Tierless

The problem is if it fails it gives all the corporate people that keep ruining our games more sway to say "see, they dont want innovation".

Thats a Strawman arguement, worthless and pointless with no basis in fact in the slightest.

But it would be reasonable to think that RvR/PvP centric MMOs might not be the way to go in the future. It is a less popular genre, and WoW copies are probably more revenue generating.

Thats not what tierless is saying though, he just states that this KS failing would lead to no innovation , which is just nonsense.

On  your point, RvR / PvP focus games are probably less popular overall than themepark "wow type" games but GW2 has shown that if done correctly they can generate money on a large scale. TESO will show more fully if a RvR game can sustain a sub paying player base, heres hoping.

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