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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » EQNext - Found an article that likely reveals the "secret" of what EQNext will have in store.

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75 posts found
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11241

4/26/13 9:22:44 AM#21
Originally posted by Neanderthal

Want to be a crafter, sure, you can purchase all the crafting supplies you need in our cashshop.

EQ2 does not offer crafter supplies on cash shop --- unlike LOTRO/DDO

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1593

4/26/13 9:28:29 AM#22
Originally posted by Neanderthal
Originally posted by asmkm22

With Smedly fully embracing cash shop F2P designs, it's even less likely that whatever open-world immersion they do manage to create won't just break at the first "click here to buy this questline" message that pops up.

Yeah, I'm afraid of that too.  I don't really have any faith in SOE creating a good game in the first place but I'm keeping my eyes on this because, frankly, there is absolutely nothing else for me to pin any hopes on.  But then even if they somehow do manage to pull a good game out of their asses they will almost certainly destroy it with their price gouging, nickle and dime, stickin' it to the players wallets approach.

"Sandbox" sure, if you want to build a building in the game just visit our cashshop, select the building you would like to purchase and there you go.

"Exploration" sure, say you come across an interesting old castle while wandering around.  For one easy payment of $1.99 you can purchase a key to enter and explore the castle.  (additional fees will be required to access each successive level of the castle).

Want to be a crafter, sure, you can purchase all the crafting supplies you need in our cashshop.

And so on.

 

I have never seen anything like those restrictions in a SOE game.  Zero zone locks, zero crafting items.  Sure there are some player created content pieces in the cash shop for EQ2 but there are also options to unlock that stuff with ingame methods to.  SOE removed all it's class and race locks a while back from EQ2 as well which is a good step forward and is moving more to vanity items.  They do want you to buy the latest expansion to get access to the newest zones but Sub players have to do that to.

SOE's cash shop doesn't bother me much in games like EQ2 and PS2.  I think they are pretty fair overall since they removed some of the dumb limits from EQ2's a while back.  If you don't want to sub the amount of money you spend on the game will depend on how much you play it.  Play a few hours a month and you really won't be spending anything on the game, play for many hours and you will find a sub is a better option.  But isn't that how it should work?

The one however I will put in that is EQ2 has been playing around a lock box varation of late.  You buy keys off the cash shop that you can go play a little mini game of sorts that has a random prize at the end.  All the random prizes are pretty bland with the exception of the item that unattunes your gear so it can be traded.  It's a exclusive item that you can only get this way which I hate given how powerful it is.  I really hope that SOE decides this isn't a good business stratagy long term and gets rid of them.

 

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1126

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

4/26/13 9:29:58 AM#23
Don't fall for the hype. Am I excited about a new Everquest? Hell yes! However with all the single player multi user games we are getting force fed to us that constantly over promise and under deliver. I will sit back and wait untill I have hands on myself.
  Jaedor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 785

4/26/13 9:35:12 AM#24

This sounds similar to the AI being developed by Citadel of Sorcery folks. It sounded too good to be true a couple years ago but now it seems others are moving along similar lines.


If true, it will change the genre and bring genuine innovation to games once again.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

4/26/13 10:26:56 AM#25
Originally posted by asmkm22

My concern is that SOE has a pretty bad reputation for delivering games that play well.  Most of them look great on paper and in screenshots (or those common videos of camera's floating across the landscape yet never actually showing character movements), but they all lack in actual gameplay, such as clunky combat and crappy character animations.

With Smedly fully embracing cash shop F2P designs, it's even less likely that whatever open-world immersion they do manage to create won't just break at the first "click here to buy this questline" message that pops up.

I think you are confusing SoE with Turbine here.  Turbine loves to remind you of their cash shop every 2 steps-even if you are a subscriber.  EQ2's is much less obnoxious during game play, and the only content ever locked is behind expansions.

As for the gameplay, I dont find EQ2's combat clunky.  While its not as smooth as WoW (noone is), its certainly not bad. It just suffers from extreme ability bloat.  

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/26/13 10:31:52 AM#26
As far as f2p goes. Planetside 2s model is excellent. I don't thinly there is a better / fairer f2p model out there.

I thinly EQN will be sub based though, at least for the first couple of years.
  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

4/26/13 10:40:05 AM#27
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Axehilt

I still think it's hilarious how often "Kill 10 rats" gets mentioned, and how I can't really think of a single MMORPG that actually has a quest where you kill 10 rats.  WAR maybe?

LOTRO apparently has a quest to kill 10 rats in Isengard Keep.

Dark Ages (an older MMO) had a quest to kill 10 rats, I remember that one because it was my first MMO.

There's a quest in Rift in the Necropolis to kill 10 rats also.

And there's this one in Allods.  Exactly 10.

And those are the ones I found in about 3 minutes of research.  There are a few not even worth mentioning like Endless Online.

eq2 added a quest 3 years ago called...   Kill 10 Rats 

http://eq2.zam.com/db/quest.html?eq2quest=bd364eaca08e78720469319ca025f647

the quest name was in humor because you are killing 10 ratonga (rat bipedals)

 

 

 

I vaguely remember another humorous "kill ten rats" quest where there was this one mob who was named "Ten Rats" or something similar, but for the life of me, I can't remember what game it was.

 

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2220

4/26/13 10:41:31 AM#28
OP this is SOE we are talking about. You are setting yourself up for some massive disappointment if you even believe half the hype they put out. Hell just to drum up some talk on the game Smed said it had permadeath and latter they developers said it didn't. Lying is what SOE does.
  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

4/26/13 10:45:29 AM#29

Here's what I've heard reported about EQ Next, first in the announcement and later when they said that storybricks is joining the team.

1. Using Planetside 2's world system. This is very good to me. I don't much like cartoon environments and I do like long draw distances and a world without barriers.

The downside is that they do have crashes occasionally and I'm not sure how underground dungeons would be.

2. Free to play model, or at least they talked about F2P in the announcement. This is good and bad. The good is that it gets people in the game. The bad is that the PS2 model they sound like they might base it on is a crock. 1 gun costs $7, camo is expensive. They have a 'premium' service, but for that you get $5 worth of certs and go to the head of the queue for $15/mo., plus a bonus in accruing certs that's not great.

3. Storybricks is going to try and make AI that are smart enough to make the game immersive. The fact that SoE went out and hired them is a great sign to me. I think EQ had better AI than most current games that use cut scenes. I'd really like to see towns filled with people who you could talk to and get di.rections from toward quests and the like who acted like real people.


I think SoE has the tools to make EQ next great, but even if the game is done perfectly it's not going to be the perfect game for most people. Too many people don't want the same thing.

Asdar

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/26/13 10:52:00 AM#30
Originally posted by Neanderthal

You're being too literal about that.  "Kill ten rats" is just a generic way of refering to the innumerable, trivial quests dumped on people by games in which progress is primarily quest driven.

In a similar way, some folks might remember when spawn camping was sometimes refered to as "whack a mole" gameplay.  Because you were sitting there waiting for the same mobs to respawn over and over so you could kill them over and over.  But when people called it "whack a mole" they didn't literally mean that we were killing moles.

Whack-a-mole is like "fedex quest".  It's clearly a saying.

If I used "deliver this hairbrush quests" to refer to all delivery quests, it's not clearly a saying and actually makes less sense.  Whereas "delivery quest" is simple and generic, "fedex quest" is clearly a saying, and even "deliver this package quests" are at least the most common type of delivery quest and therefore make sense.

But delivering hairbrushes?!? That doesn't even make sense.  Nor do rats.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1803

4/26/13 11:13:46 AM#31
Originally posted by Axehilt

I still think it's hilarious how often "Kill 10 rats" gets mentioned, and how I can't really think of a single MMORPG that actually has a quest where you kill 10 rats.  WAR maybe?

 

It's from Everquest. 

The first quest you can get in Qeynos, Freeport, Rivervale and Neriak  is to get  rat whiskers by killing the rats in the city.

It's the first quest you can get in the game really.

"Exterminator Larkey wants four rat whiskers from the many instances of A Rodent running around. You get faction hits and a small cash reward."

  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1613

4/26/13 11:25:15 AM#32
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Neanderthal

You're being too literal about that.  "Kill ten rats" is just a generic way of refering to the innumerable, trivial quests dumped on people by games in which progress is primarily quest driven.

In a similar way, some folks might remember when spawn camping was sometimes refered to as "whack a mole" gameplay.  Because you were sitting there waiting for the same mobs to respawn over and over so you could kill them over and over.  But when people called it "whack a mole" they didn't literally mean that we were killing moles.

Whack-a-mole is like "fedex quest".  It's clearly a saying.

If I used "deliver this hairbrush quests" to refer to all delivery quests, it's not clearly a saying and actually makes less sense.  Whereas "delivery quest" is simple and generic, "fedex quest" is clearly a saying, and even "deliver this package quests" are at least the most common type of delivery quest and therefore make sense.

But delivering hairbrushes?!? That doesn't even make sense.  Nor do rats.

Yeah, ok, but that's the way people use it.

We could try to analyse why "rats" are used in the saying but that would likely turn into a huge nerdtastic pissing contest and I don't think I want to bother with it.  Suffice it to say that it's a way of belittling that type of gameplay. 

 It's used as a representative example of a certain type of gameplay.  It's used as a way to refer to that type of gameplay.  If you don't like it don't get mad at me.  That's just the way it is.

I mean, clearly, when developers (and most other people) talk about the typical "kill ten rats" type of quests/gameplay they aren't JUST talking about quests which specifically involve killing ten rats.

Did anyone else reading this thread not understand that?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/26/13 11:33:40 AM#33
Asdar
You don't get $5 of certs

Certs must be earned in game. Certs pay for upgrades on armour, vehicles and weapons. And weapons themselves.

If you subscribe you earn certs at unto 50% faster though.

Using the cash shop you can buy cosmetics and guns (without upgrades) using station cash. You can also buy boosts that increase xp gain, infantry resource gain etc .

Guns are sidegrades really, its the ammo, sights etc.. you put in them that make you more powerfull, and these must be paid for with certs that you earn in game.

You can buy guns with certs too, but as they cost around 1000 certs most subscribers down their certs on stuff that must be bought with certs, like sights, vehicle armour, jetpack upgrades etc.. and use their 500 free station cash per month to buy guns (or cosmetic stuff)

It really is a good f2p model. I much prefer it to gw2 approach if let's have lots of gold grind to encourage people to buy gems, and let's hook gamblers with lock boxes.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  4/26/13 4:12:10 PM#34
Originally posted by Dauzqul

Storybricks sounds good on paper, but what game-related news doesnt?

 

I remember SWTOR talking about their deep story component, e.g., "The way you intereact with NPCs is important and permanent. Your choices reflect your destiny" - something like that crap.

REALITY:

Deep choices? Pfft. The quest giver talks...   you have the following options:

#1. Kill the NPC (Earn Sith Point)

#2. Let the NPC live (Earn Jedi Point)

#3. (no points)

 

 

As I said earlier, everything sounds good on paper. But when usually put to practice, it's just stupid.\

\

 

Well we'll see what happens.  I don't think how things have happened in the past dictate or ensure what will happen in the future - so it may turn out a lot better than you expect.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  4/26/13 4:15:51 PM#35
Originally posted by winter
OP this is SOE we are talking about. You are setting yourself up for some massive disappointment if you even believe half the hype they put out. Hell just to drum up some talk on the game Smed said it had permadeath and latter they developers said it didn't. Lying is what SOE does.

I guess I'm not as jaded or resentful as you - I don't thint there is an issue in being excited for the game.  And while I've had my issues with SOE in the past also, I don't think everything they are saying regarding this game is crap.  Bringing Storybricks onto the team is fact, and they didn't hire them then tell them to make more kill 10 rat quests.

  Acidon

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 677

Permafried

4/26/13 4:16:49 PM#36
Originally posted by Axehilt

I still think it's hilarious how often "Kill 10 rats" gets mentioned, and how I can't really think of a single MMORPG that actually has a quest where you kill 10 rats.  WAR maybe?

It's like this scapegoat stereotype that everyone insults, but never actually exists.  Bizarre and hilarious.

Definitely hope these guys figure out a fun innovation and it isn't just empty hot air (I can easily see it going either way: either the mechanism is a blast to play around with, or it's mostly irrelevant (heaping on upkeep to the act of quest-getting, without adding meaningful gameplay.)  Maybe even both.)

I always assumed that originated from EQ.  In "old" Freeport, there was a quest to kill 10 rats.  They were some big rats, too.

 

Dang, I miss old freeport.  They went way overboard when they re-did it.  Is old Qeynos, Felwithe still in the game?  If anyone knows..  Thanks.

 

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  nethervoid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 531

4/26/13 4:20:18 PM#37

So many MMOs talk a huge talk during development, and then ship with a small fraction of the features they talked about (usually the most common, boring features like 'combat' and 'quests').

I have little faith until I see it in beta.

nethervoid - Est. '97
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  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 904

4/26/13 4:52:58 PM#38
Originally posted by ShakyMo
As far as f2p goes. Planetside 2s model is excellent. I don't thinly there is a better / fairer f2p model out there.

I thinly EQN will be sub based though, at least for the first couple of years.

ofc they could change their mind, but they did indirectly say that F2P is the future for all SOE MMOs, so expecting a F2P model with heavy encouraged sub model alternative.

certainly my hype for this game havent become less with the announcement of SOE´s outsourcing some tasks to storybricks...but we will see in August am excited to see the game´s best sides finally

 

  Everwest

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/13
Posts: 75

4/26/13 5:50:15 PM#39

Still wreaks of theory to me.  They've created a tool, but how does the implementation actually enhance gameplay?

Even with more advanced NPCs, what do you really have?  At best, The Sims?  No matter how flexible your NPCs are, they're less flexible than a player character.  Their true flexibility only stems from the things which you program them to do that REAL players CAN'T do.  If you can't allow or count on real players to initiate a quest, give out a reward, or share world-building information, you give that role to an NPC.  But that still requires as much design and programming as MMOs already do.  Storybricks is not a magic bullet for this problem.

MMOs can already create NPCs with complex behaviors.  They just haven't shown an ability to use them to enhance the gameplay.  Freedom and choices are only really fun when they lead you to doing exciting and interesting things.  Otherwise they're "same-old".

I can see how the tool can be made to make NPCs that are more flexible.  But flexibility only means potential--potential which already exists and is not utilized.  Potential which requires vast resources to actualize.

It's an awful lot of "wouldn't it be nice?"  And yes, it would be nice if developers used Storybricks to deliver on those things.  Much as it would be nice if I could build my own house, giving me a new hammer isn't the solution to the problem.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1803

4/26/13 6:01:47 PM#40
Originally posted by Acidon

 

 Is old Qeynos, Felwithe still in the game?  If anyone knows..  Thanks.

 

They're both still in the game, they're also unchanged unlike Freeport.

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