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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Major Turbine Billing Glitch - players are being charged thousands of dollars

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29 posts found
  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

4/25/13 7:13:38 AM#21
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Helleri

This is why I green dot my MMOG transactions. they can't take what isn't there. I highly doubt Turbine is being any where near honest about the number of players effected and to what degree.  Why would they? if you have an account with them and have the game client on your computer they are not responsible and infact your legally obligated to defend them...from their EULA (they capped it not me):

 

"6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose. 

7. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS’ FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT."

 

They can't be sued, they can't be pressed for hard truth, technically even this topic is a violation of their EULA (if your not completely defending them and claiming them to be free of all blame, and you hold an active account with them and have their products on your machine)...

 

And, this kind of thing is ridiculous. It should be against fair trade laws and regulations to even offer an EULA like that. Plus it's a waste of character space when they could have just said "you are our biotch...in all senses of the word, until such time as we dismiss you with the back of our hand."

 It is protected by law!  An EULA like that will be blown to pieces in court!

All the EULA tries to do, is scare off their customers and hope they don't bring it to court.

A feck up like this, that directly affects people's real lives! Like depleting entire bank accounts and so putting people's families to harm can be brought to court and this EULA will be blown to pieces!

So if Turbine doesn't resolve this quickly enough, reverse the charges and compensate people. Than the people affected will have a very strong case against Turbine in court.

What exactly is protected by what laws? and how precisely can that EULA be 'blown to pieces'? Don't just say things because they sound good.

 

...Contracts are typically upheld in court as long as they are legally binding. If they use clear and comphehensible language, and do not directly violate any laws in their terms, and they are signed (when you click I agree or continue you are giving a digital signiture), then they are legally binding. And, yes you can dismiss rights you would otherwise have in signing a contract that would have you do such.

 

 


Place Holder Signature.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5009

4/25/13 7:22:18 AM#22
Originally posted by Helleri
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Helleri

This is why I green dot my MMOG transactions. they can't take what isn't there. I highly doubt Turbine is being any where near honest about the number of players effected and to what degree.  Why would they? if you have an account with them and have the game client on your computer they are not responsible and infact your legally obligated to defend them...from their EULA (they capped it not me):

 

"6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose. 

7. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS’ FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT."

 

They can't be sued, they can't be pressed for hard truth, technically even this topic is a violation of their EULA (if your not completely defending them and claiming them to be free of all blame, and you hold an active account with them and have their products on your machine)...

 

And, this kind of thing is ridiculous. It should be against fair trade laws and regulations to even offer an EULA like that. Plus it's a waste of character space when they could have just said "you are our biotch...in all senses of the word, until such time as we dismiss you with the back of our hand."

 It is protected by law!  An EULA like that will be blown to pieces in court!

All the EULA tries to do, is scare off their customers and hope they don't bring it to court.

A feck up like this, that directly affects people's real lives! Like depleting entire bank accounts and so putting people's families to harm can be brought to court and this EULA will be blown to pieces!

So if Turbine doesn't resolve this quickly enough, reverse the charges and compensate people. Than the people affected will have a very strong case against Turbine in court.

What exactly is protected by what laws? and how precisely can that EULA be 'blown to pieces'? Don't just say things because they sound good.

 

...Contracts are typically upheld in court as long as they are legally binding. If they use clear and comphehensible language, and do not directly violate any laws in their terms, and they are signed (when you click I agree or continue you are giving a digital signiture), then they are legally binding. And, yes you can dismiss rights you would otherwise have in signing a contract that would have you do such.

 

 

 The EULA is not a binding contract that can be upheld in court and protect Turbine for negligence.

It's just a scare off mechanism used by these companies.

  TehKid

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/06
Posts: 5

 
OP  4/25/13 7:47:58 AM#23

Isn't Turbine 'on the wrong' here? Not that Turbine is the worst company ever, but there has been no formal announcement regarding this billing glitch. The best you'll find are developer replies on the forums. And they did announce a Lord of the Rings expansion pack yesterday lol

 

No action should be required on your part to get this resolved. However, if you would be more comfortable speaking with someone directly, please call us at 1-855-WBGAMES or send us a ticket through http://support.turbine.com. We do have a list of affected folks, and are working to make sure that all overcharges are reversed, and all outstanding issues resolved.

--Cordovan (Turbine Community Relations) 

 

I received a refund for one $12.95 payment so far. I'm still owed another $12.95. And I never received an email.

  psychobgr

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 128

4/25/13 8:29:56 AM#24
Wonder how much money they actually managed to take ? If it went into huge amounts the interest they get could be shared with the people it affected maybe.
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

4/25/13 8:48:33 AM#25
Originally posted by Helleri
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Helleri

This is why I green dot my MMOG transactions. they can't take what isn't there. I highly doubt Turbine is being any where near honest about the number of players effected and to what degree.  Why would they? if you have an account with them and have the game client on your computer they are not responsible and infact your legally obligated to defend them...from their EULA (they capped it not me):

 

"6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose. 

7. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS’ FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT."

 

They can't be sued, they can't be pressed for hard truth, technically even this topic is a violation of their EULA (if your not completely defending them and claiming them to be free of all blame, and you hold an active account with them and have their products on your machine)...

 

And, this kind of thing is ridiculous. It should be against fair trade laws and regulations to even offer an EULA like that. Plus it's a waste of character space when they could have just said "you are our biotch...in all senses of the word, until such time as we dismiss you with the back of our hand."

 It is protected by law!  An EULA like that will be blown to pieces in court!

All the EULA tries to do, is scare off their customers and hope they don't bring it to court.

A feck up like this, that directly affects people's real lives! Like depleting entire bank accounts and so putting people's families to harm can be brought to court and this EULA will be blown to pieces!

So if Turbine doesn't resolve this quickly enough, reverse the charges and compensate people. Than the people affected will have a very strong case against Turbine in court.

What exactly is protected by what laws? and how precisely can that EULA be 'blown to pieces'? Don't just say things because they sound good.

 

...Contracts are typically upheld in court as long as they are legally binding. If they use clear and comphehensible language, and do not directly violate any laws in their terms, and they are signed (when you click I agree or continue you are giving a digital signiture), then they are legally binding. And, yes you can dismiss rights you would otherwise have in signing a contract that would have you do such.

 

 

It can very easily be argued that the unauthorized withdrawal of a significant about of cash from your account is outside the "use of the game or the game client". 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

4/25/13 9:07:56 AM#26

I bought a LT sub with LOTRO when it launched, and do not have any payment detaiils stored with them, as do not need a monthly sub, and any purcahses are done with the monthly grant of Turbine points.

This problem has occured before by another company though, and I have been reluctant in giving payment details to anyone, but pre-paid cards are good, as you just load it with just enough funds to pay for these things. If this did affect me, it would just take away money set aside for gaming, and not take away money for bills and living.

Also one bank, not that long ago, think it was Natwest / RBS, had problems, and froze peoples finances for weeks.

Within the last week, I have been shafted too - Lovefilm charged me twice (now refund), and Zavvi over charged me on an item ordered (refund in process). Plus stuff I have bought online over the last 2 weeks, have not been delivered.

  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3316

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

4/25/13 9:35:54 AM#27

Hrrmm.

Whatever the reason for this glitch was, it will cost Turbine dearly.

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

4/25/13 9:46:41 AM#28
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Helleri
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Helleri

This is why I green dot my MMOG transactions. they can't take what isn't there. I highly doubt Turbine is being any where near honest about the number of players effected and to what degree.  Why would they? if you have an account with them and have the game client on your computer they are not responsible and infact your legally obligated to defend them...from their EULA (they capped it not me):

 

"6. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose. 

7. INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS’ FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT."

 

They can't be sued, they can't be pressed for hard truth, technically even this topic is a violation of their EULA (if your not completely defending them and claiming them to be free of all blame, and you hold an active account with them and have their products on your machine)...

 

And, this kind of thing is ridiculous. It should be against fair trade laws and regulations to even offer an EULA like that. Plus it's a waste of character space when they could have just said "you are our biotch...in all senses of the word, until such time as we dismiss you with the back of our hand."

 It is protected by law!  An EULA like that will be blown to pieces in court!

All the EULA tries to do, is scare off their customers and hope they don't bring it to court.

A feck up like this, that directly affects people's real lives! Like depleting entire bank accounts and so putting people's families to harm can be brought to court and this EULA will be blown to pieces!

So if Turbine doesn't resolve this quickly enough, reverse the charges and compensate people. Than the people affected will have a very strong case against Turbine in court.

What exactly is protected by what laws? and how precisely can that EULA be 'blown to pieces'? Don't just say things because they sound good.

 

...Contracts are typically upheld in court as long as they are legally binding. If they use clear and comphehensible language, and do not directly violate any laws in their terms, and they are signed (when you click I agree or continue you are giving a digital signiture), then they are legally binding. And, yes you can dismiss rights you would otherwise have in signing a contract that would have you do such.

 

 

It can very easily be argued that the unauthorized withdrawal of a significant about of cash from your account is outside the "use of the game or the game client". 

True...the problem comes in getting to the point where you can make that argument in a venue in which it matters. Especially if they took all your money, lol. small claims cases require time off...well your life. And, there are bursar fee's unless it's under a certain amount (varies place to place), not to mention gas and the stress of the whole ordeal.

 

Fact is, people will talk about sueing someone all day when their ticked off... few actually do compaired to the many that run their mouth about it. Mostly because what they would sue over is technically small claims. You can seek attorney advice to see if it is even actionable and the approach you might take. But, in small claims court, there are no lawyers. And, even if you get the judgment through a no show or poor defense of the opposition. It still falls upon you to collect on the judgment (easier said then done). that is assuming you have the legal know how to yourself persue efficiently and not just have it tossed out because you don't know what your talking about in court and came unprepaired.

 

The person who wishes to sue basically has to do most of the leg work on it (that's the stress I mentioned as a factor above). It is more often then not...simply not worth it effort and money wise for potential rewards. At the same time it is definately worth it to try to work with the company to see your money back. remaining calm and reasonable (more so then they are usually) is the best way to see recompense in most instances. After all they don't want to loose business and reputation...that hurts their bottom line.

 

Now a screw up that is this big...any particular instance may be small enough but together thats likely falling under a large claim (as a class action lawsuit)...it might very well attract the attention of some sharks out there. if there is enough blood in the water nom nom happy firms will rip that company a new one, lol.

 

 

 


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  Razeekster

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Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1915

May the game be ever in your favor.

4/25/13 11:01:13 AM#29

Wow, the people's attitudes towards players who lost so much money is just shameful. Someone admits that they had to beg for enough money just to buy food to support their two year old and they must obviously be lying, right? Like what?! Just completley appalling behavior from some of these other players. And to the people on those forums saying "You have a problem if you can't make 100 charges on your monthly bill without going into the red," I just have this to say to them: Um, whaat?! Some people like me haven't completed a college education yet, and are trying to look for a job in this horrible economy so no, not all of us can afford over $1000 dollars in worth of bank overdrafts.

 

Especially not where I live, where banks charge $30 for each bank overdraft.

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