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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Help and old fogey out with FtP please

15 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 461

OP  4/23/13 10:22:06 PM#1

I'll start with some background. My first MMO was Earth & Beyond. I played that until it was announced it was being sundowned. Then I switch to City of Heroes and played that until the last day. I got Star Trek Online when it came out and got the lifetime membership. I played it for a few months then went back to City of Heroes. When CoH ended I went back to STO. But now STO is getting a bit dull and playing it feels more like busy work than fun so I'm thinking about switching to a new game. The thing is the games these days are mostly FtP and I'm not sure about it.

I like subscription games because it makes me feel invested in the game, like I own a little piece of it and as such can expect things from the company. But FtP kind of makes me feel like a mooch, like I'm going to Starbucks to use their free WiFi and ordering a small coffee just to qualify as a customer. And if something goes wrong in a FtP game, how much right do I have to complain? MMOs are a service and without a subscription complaining feels awkard as in "the food tastes awful and the portions are too small" kind of thing. You get what you pay for and the ability to walk away from a game without spending another dollar, to me, discourages game loyalty. Why stick with one game through a bad spot when you can painlessly switch to another?

Like in STO, I already paid my money years ago so my expectation of the game has gone down. If I paid every month (or once a year for 12 months), I would have higher expectations since I'm paying more. But now in STO spending money doesn't get you much. A lot of what's in the store doesn't add much, if anything, to my enjoyment of the game. I'm thinking about giving Neverwinter a try because it's different than other MMOs I've played and since it's part of PW, I can still talk with my friends on the chat channel.

So I guess what I'm asking is how do I find that sense of ownership and loyalty in a FtP game?


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1458

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/24/13 4:56:05 PM#2

"F2P" games are 'flavor of the month' type games. They want you to come in, spend as much $ as possible, then go to the next "F2P" game. You won't develop a sense of ownership in the game, and they don't want you to.

BTW, I have no interest in F2P games.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit


Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/04
Posts: 91

4/24/13 4:58:21 PM#3
Hear, hear

Elite Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2534

4/24/13 5:02:17 PM#4
seeing as you can cancel your sub any time you want you really own nothing you are just a month to month renter.  With some FTP games you can still spend less than a sub fee and keep playing get a little bored jump to a new one for a little and go back when you get the itch.  Unless I a sub game where if you get bored then you are obligated in a way to log in and do boring stuff to justify your sub.  Frankly it is only mental.  You are as dedicated to a game as you want to be.  If you want to force others to be dedicated to a game...the way the game gets paid for does not do it...make a game worth playing for years. 

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7747

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/24/13 5:09:29 PM#5

Reading your post allowed me to think about F2p in a bit different sense than usual.

To sum it up,it is a VERY cheap way to get a small developer into the business.Usually the starting point is Browser based.You are 100%  correct,you only get what you pay for,however that doesn't mean there are not shindlers out there willing to take your money for nothing.look no further than the recent Kickstar scams,asking for free handouts.
Samoan Diamond


Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 461

OP  4/24/13 7:38:21 PM#6
Originally posted by Horusra
seeing as you can cancel your sub any time you want you really own nothing you are just a month to month renter.  With some FTP games you can still spend less than a sub fee and keep playing get a little bored jump to a new one for a little and go back when you get the itch.  Unless I a sub game where if you get bored then you are obligated in a way to log in and do boring stuff to justify your sub.  Frankly it is only mental.  You are as dedicated to a game as you want to be.  If you want to force others to be dedicated to a game...the way the game gets paid for does not do it...make a game worth playing for years. 

With a subscription, most people let it run out and not renew (like to a magazine). By then whatever problem you might have had with the game could have resolved itself. So a subscritpion buys time and lets you be more forgiving especially when you have a year subscription.

You're right, it is mental. So is enjoying a game. So is loyalty. We're too fickle these days. The first bump in the road and we're off for the newest shiny object. That's not a way to long-term happiness. At least not for me.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 226

4/24/13 7:57:57 PM#7

Neverwinter is probably the next biggish F2P, so probably best to try it out.

I personally will have a small look in at it, but lately I've been very burnt out on MMOs.

Loved DAoC but it's now half dead and looks older than the wife!

WoW was okay til Cata - no ty!

LotRO - 1990s graphics isn't my thing!

Rift.. dead!

SWTOR felt to easy and empty!

GW2 - The RNG/cashshop king, the only game I've ever seen where you have to buy gold as the drops are so low!


...So Neverwinter it is... Oh God let ArcheAge have something fun in it! :(

No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!


Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2689

World > Quest Progression

4/24/13 9:12:46 PM#8
You could always spend 15.00 a month in a F2P game if you wanted that sense of fair trade. F2P games still have either a sub model, cash shop or both and always need money. I say just play what seems interesting and if you like it spend some money. Your donation to supplement the true free players will be much appreciated by the company trying to keep the servers on :)

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2689

World > Quest Progression

4/24/13 9:14:50 PM#9
Also, if you haven't tried it yet check out EQ2. It's deep enough to play for a long time and has some atypical features.

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 3034

4/24/13 9:22:32 PM#10
I don't see why anyone would need, or even want, to be loyal to a game. Time is the most valuable commodity in life anyway. It takes time to earn money and it takes time to play a ftp game. That's your sense of investment right there; how much time you've put in.

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 9

4/24/13 11:16:34 PM#11

that's how f2p works and it's not new anymore.  So better buy games with no subscription. Guildwars 2 is one of the decent.

i advise that you try other types of game


Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2689

World > Quest Progression

4/25/13 12:23:59 AM#12

I see your point and agree. Your time is the most precious commodity and it does indeed take time to earn money. This also applies to the makers of said F2P game however, which is why I think people could feel the need to spend even of they don't need to if they like the game.

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 461

OP  4/25/13 7:32:28 PM#13
Originally posted by Vannor
I don't see why anyone would need, or even want, to be loyal to a game. Time is the most valuable commodity in life anyway. It takes time to earn money and it takes time to play a ftp game. That's your sense of investment right there; how much time you've put in.

The same reason why are people loyal to a sports team or TV show. They enjoy it and they want to stick with it. City of Heroes was deep in lore and created a rich history, one that was ready to continue on for years if NCSoft didn't kill it. Zones changed, characters died, other characters developed. It kept you wondering what would happen next. Despite what happened, it was an investment that was worth my time.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/04
Posts: 91

4/28/13 4:14:36 AM#14

Couldn't we just set aside opinions and look at the facts? Look at the sub based mmo's and the f2p mmo's in history. Which one was more succesful overall?

My opinion: I don't know the numbers but I don't think there's any f2p that started as f2p that was worth anything at all. The sub based mmo's that changed to f2p are kind of big nowadays. But still those games have become go-to games when nothing else seems worth playing.

I am biased because I absolutely detest f2p systems. Simply because I want ALL the content in a game, I don't want to even begin to think about items or stuff I could get if I invest something. I want freedom in playing. This freedom FEELS real to me when I sub to a game and just play it. Even if I would spend less (compared to a sub) in some shop that is sort of outside the game and become more unique something about that FEEL of freedom and the feel of 'owning' a whole game has become lost.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/09
Posts: 101

4/28/13 4:39:28 AM#15

F2P games have built in mechanisms designed to make you spend money. Being forced to do something does not garner loyalty, it only gains resentment.

B2p are similiar to sub games in that most content is in game and you only need to spend money on the purchase of the game and cosmetic items if you so desire.

Sub games have everything in game however, everything has to be earned in order to unlock it.

If you are seeking to find loyalty in a game then your path is not a correct path. Loyalty should be reserved for someone who has earned it. It should never be given to an cooperate entity who's main concern is always the bottom line.

Therefore, what you should be seeking is a game that you enjoy, that makes you feel comfortable and lastly, one that allows you to feel a true sense of accomplishment. You need to decide, for yourself, exactly what things would allow you to obtain those goals and then look at games that have the best chance of helping you achieve them.

If we fail to change the things of today, they will become the lucid nighmares of tommorrow.