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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Could DF:UW be a UO replacement MMO?

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87 posts found
  Hodo

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 559

4/24/13 9:16:57 AM#41
UO, was better pre-Trammel.   It actually made the economy circulate instead of stagnate.   Players who werent PvPers stayed in groups, PvPers made friends and worked together to raid common PVE hunting areas.   Players who lost gear needed it replaced, bought it from crafters who rarely left the safety of towns.   It was a real economy, it worked.   This is why games like Mortal Online, DFUW, all fall short.    They are PVP first, crafting second, economy maybe.   Eve actually follows the original UO concept pretty well, with security zones.   You can be completely safe as a PvE player in the HIGH sec zones, not to say you wont be killed by the random PvPer, but its RARE, real rare.   But if you want the better stuff, you need to go out into the lower sec areas to get it.   Or pay someone to do it for you.  

So much crap, so little quality.

  Mors.Magne

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1432

4/24/13 9:20:26 AM#42
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

 

This is wrong. The UO developers themself (Raph Koster notably) admitted they were bleeding customers and they patched in Trammel to get them back.

Trammel gave people THE CHOICE. You could still play 100% in Felucca if you wanted to. The only thing that pissed off the griefer PKs is that they no longer had harmless victims like the poor crafter bringing his ore to town, but they had to fight other skilled PKs instead.

Choice is always good. And choice saved UO and made it so that the game, despite its aged graphics, still exists nowadays.

 

Yup. CHOICE is the key.

 

But UO is not the best example anymore, EvE is a better one.

I've played EvE for years, but in my opinion it's a different beast to DFUW. 

EvE is in space (and you have gates), but DFUW is on terra firma. Therefore, the 'feel' of these two games is rather different.

  Aragon100

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2236

4/24/13 9:35:51 AM#43
Originally posted by lickm3

 


Originally posted by Realbigdeal
i still think DF UW is the best mmo ever if you don't count the great ones who don't exist anymore like DF online. 

 

What about EvE Online hardcore sandbox ever made? Or UO which is 15years old and still has better combat system than shity copy/paste TERA online combat in your best mmo dfuw ?

I prefer pre-Age of Shadows (feb 2003) UO combat system that even though it is 16 years old still demands more PvP playerskill then Darkfall. Old UO could take 6 months to +1 year to skillfully handle with it's twitchbased and tactical spellsystem, some never got the hang of it even though they trained and trained and trained. Playing a dexer was kinda easy but  playing a mage skillfully was amazingly hard even though it was autotarget. Best magic system ever created.

Tried DFUW abit and ended my subscription, UI is terrible even though i guess you can get used to it in the long run. And it is far from the sandbox game UO was, more like a online quake arena.

  lickm3

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 153

4/24/13 9:46:15 AM#44


Originally posted by Aragon100

Originally posted by lickm3  

Originally posted by Realbigdeal i still think DF UW is the best mmo ever if you don't count the great ones who don't exist anymore like DF online. 
  What about EvE Online hardcore sandbox ever made? Or UO which is 15years old and still has better combat system than shity copy/paste TERA online combat in your best mmo dfuw ?
I prefer pre-Age of Shadows (feb 2003) UO combat system that even though it is 16 years old still demands more PvP playerskill then Darkfall. Old UO could take 6 months to +1 year to skillfully handle with it's twitchbased and tactical spellsystem, some never got the hang of it even though they trained and trained and trained. Playing a dexer was kinda easy but  playing a mage skillfully was amazingly hard even though it was autotarget. Best magic system ever created.

Tried DFUW abit and ended my subscription, UI is terrible even though i guess you can get used to it in the long run. And it is far from the sandbox game UO was, more like a online quake arena.


I couldn't agree more.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”? -Albert Einstein

  StarI

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 840

4/24/13 9:49:58 AM#45
Originally posted by Mors.Magne
Originally posted by StarI
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

 

This is wrong. The UO developers themself (Raph Koster notably) admitted they were bleeding customers and they patched in Trammel to get them back.

Trammel gave people THE CHOICE. You could still play 100% in Felucca if you wanted to. The only thing that pissed off the griefer PKs is that they no longer had harmless victims like the poor crafter bringing his ore to town, but they had to fight other skilled PKs instead.

Choice is always good. And choice saved UO and made it so that the game, despite its aged graphics, still exists nowadays.

 

Yup. CHOICE is the key.

 

But UO is not the best example anymore, EvE is a better one.

I've played EvE for years, but in my opinion it's a different beast to DFUW. 

EvE is in space (and you have gates), but DFUW is on terra firma. Therefore, the 'feel' of these two games is rather different.

 

Obviously Darkfall would have to implement CHOICE in rather different way but it would still be possible I'm sure.

  Kezzadrix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 87

4/24/13 2:23:07 PM#46
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Kezzadrix
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Mageick
Trammel was bad for UO imo. I played before all that was implemented. pvpers make pve fun.

Spoken like a true person without logical reasoning skills.  If you had any you would know that Pre-trammel UO had between 100K and 125K subscriptions.  Within the year of the release of trammel UO subscriptions had doubled to 250K.  So o yes Trammel really bad for UO; but it doubled the profit from UO and allowed the developers to make more content faster.  REALLY bad for UO,  /rollseyes

BTW I played UO since 1998, for the 2 years I was on and off because of the grieving even though I had some good PVP friends.  I became a stable player after tram came out and played until SWG released.  The only thing Trammel was back for was players who think grieving players like crafters is a good thing.  A Mule stands no change vs a Mage with GM Magery, Meditation, and Eval intel, however we will not talk about people like you because you think I am picking on your Elite skills.

Trammel was not the reason more players were joining.  MMO gaming in general was getting more popular at this time.  I didn't even own a computer myself untill a friend introduced me to UO.  I was instantly addicted and went and bought my first PC   =)  .

This is wrong. The UO developers themself (Raph Koster notably) admitted they were bleeding customers and they patched in Trammel to get them back.

Trammel gave people THE CHOICE. You could still play 100% in Felucca if you wanted to. The only thing that pissed off the griefer PKs is that they no longer had harmless victims like the poor crafter bringing his ore to town, but they had to fight other skilled PKs instead.

Choice is always good. And choice saved UO and made it so that the game, despite its aged graphics, still exists nowadays.

I highly doubt the inception of trammel is what doubled the subscribers of the game.  I also don't agree that choice is always the best thing either.  Personally, I think games should stick to what they're supposed to be and if players don't like that, then they can choose to play another game.  Games that try and please everyone fail.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

4/25/13 11:17:12 AM#47
Originally posted by Kezzadrix

I highly doubt the inception of trammel is what doubled the subscribers of the game.  I also don't agree that choice is always the best thing either.  Personally, I think games should stick to what they're supposed to be and if players don't like that, then they can choose to play another game.  Games that try and please everyone fail.

Not meaning to be nasty, but this is pretty shortsighted and poor thinking, not to mention it's totally wrong. Games who manage to please the largest public trive, the others fail or remain tiny niche games.

In your oh! so smart opinion, what is better? People playing on both PvE and PvP servers, increasing the customer potential of the game, and therefore increasing it's ability to patch in content regularly, or everybody playing on a gankfest PvP server, with all the PvE player quitting the game and therefore stopping giving money to the developers, limiting the growth potential of the game? It's also proved that the hardcore loot everything on death PvP players are a tiny minority, making it even worse.

Arrogant developers like Aventurine will always remain niche companies with very little investment potential because of that. You can give the choice to players without sacrificing the base spirit of your game. If I was leading a MMORPG company making a sandbox with full loot PvP, I would also order my developer team to add PvE servers, or servers with less harsh rules, in order to increase my potential customer pool. I'd rather have people giving me money playing on specific servers than quitting my game... the result for the remaining players is the same, but for the company, it's just a waste of money.

Yeah, like it or not, Trammel saved UO and doubled it's customer base by catering to the MAJORITY as well as the minority of hardcores. Origin made a very smart move, the only possible, even if a bit late and not perfect.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Blindchance

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/09
Posts: 1079

4/25/13 2:10:56 PM#48

UO was a sandbox, DF is not.

  Kezzadrix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 87

4/27/13 9:11:28 AM#49
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Kezzadrix

I highly doubt the inception of trammel is what doubled the subscribers of the game.  I also don't agree that choice is always the best thing either.  Personally, I think games should stick to what they're supposed to be and if players don't like that, then they can choose to play another game.  Games that try and please everyone fail.

Not meaning to be nasty, but this is pretty shortsighted and poor thinking, not to mention it's totally wrong. Games who manage to please the largest public trive, the others fail or remain tiny niche games.

In your oh! so smart opinion, what is better? People playing on both PvE and PvP servers, increasing the customer potential of the game, and therefore increasing it's ability to patch in content regularly, or everybody playing on a gankfest PvP server, with all the PvE player quitting the game and therefore stopping giving money to the developers, limiting the growth potential of the game? It's also proved that the hardcore loot everything on death PvP players are a tiny minority, making it even worse.

Arrogant developers like Aventurine will always remain niche companies with very little investment potential because of that. You can give the choice to players without sacrificing the base spirit of your game. If I was leading a MMORPG company making a sandbox with full loot PvP, I would also order my developer team to add PvE servers, or servers with less harsh rules, in order to increase my potential customer pool. I'd rather have people giving me money playing on specific servers than quitting my game... the result for the remaining players is the same, but for the company, it's just a waste of money.

Yeah, like it or not, Trammel saved UO and doubled it's customer base by catering to the MAJORITY as well as the minority of hardcores. Origin made a very smart move, the only possible, even if a bit late and not perfect.

I understand that a game that is strictly PvE will likely have more players but that doesn't mean a PvP game can't have enough people to thrive.   UO was doing well enough.  There were lots of players on both servers I played on, when i used to play it.  Sounds to me like you just don't like PvP and that's fine, it's not for everyone.  You were obviously a victim of ganks and were without friends to fight back.  I can see how that might not be fun.  UO was designed, originally, to be a world where anything could happen at any time & that's what I liked about it.  Being full loot wasn't really a problem in UO.  Gear was not hard to come by.  I could have a very nice set of magic gear/weapons within 2 hours of hunting solo somewhere.  I also didn't don all my best stuff to go hunting solo.  I used the best magic gear when I had friends with me so that I had better chances of winning in battles and winning battles earned me other magical items which made up for times when I lost.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

4/27/13 10:20:41 AM#50
Originally posted by Kezzadrix

UO was doing well enough.

No it wasn't. The subscriptions began nosediving when other games (EQ/AC1) were release which offered the player the choice. It's not about what you or your friends percieved of the server they were playing on, this comes from the developers themself, and population numbers confirm it. The only reason why UO kept a decent player base before 1999 is because it was the only mainstream AAA quality MMORPG on the market, and people didn't have a choice if they enjoyed that kind of games (and don't come up with the other crappy MMOs that existed back then, they didn't come even close to UO quality and content wise).

I will ignore the assumptions you made about my playstyle in the rest of your post, they are not worth answering to. Try to stick to facts, and not to assume how other people play and use those assumptions to dismiss what they say, and we will talk again.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 310

4/27/13 11:09:31 AM#51
Originally posted by Blindchance

UO was a sandbox, DF is not.

If DF isn't a sandbox than wtf is it? It sure as hell isn't a themepark.

Currently playing: Football Manager 2015.

Getting more kicks out of a single player sports RPG than any MMO on the market. A sad state of affairs indeed...

  LongLivePvP

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/13
Posts: 104

4/28/13 3:01:21 PM#52
DF is a grinder...aka 2nd job if you want to be viable in pvp.

Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars & ArcheAge(Alpha)
Backed: Shards Online, Camelot Unchained
Loved: Vanilla WoW,UO,Shadowbane,EQ,DAoC,Asheron's Call(Darktide)

  Azdul

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/11/09
Posts: 442

4/29/13 2:46:17 AM#53
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Not meaning to be nasty, but this is pretty shortsighted and poor thinking, not to mention it's totally wrong. Games who manage to please the largest public trive, the others fail or remain tiny niche games.
Yeah, like it or not, Trammel saved UO and doubled it's customer base by catering to the MAJORITY as well as the minority of hardcores. Origin made a very smart move, the only possible, even if a bit late and not perfect.

If developers stick to what makes their MMO unique, they usually succeed, even if the MMO is extremely niche. EvE is the best example.

If developers try to appeal to everyone, they will, bit by bit, remove everything that makes their MMO special - and eventually the game will be lost in the sea of hundreds similar games. 

Trammel was the first step - only later EA had shown complete lack of respect for sandbox paradigms, Ultima legacy, and pretty much everything else that original UO was trying to achieve.

And on topic:

Modern MMOs completely lost the players' freedom, sense of danger and adventure, world exploration - and prefer to carefully design and control player experience.

DF is much too competitive, and much too focused on guild warfare to be UO successor / replacement. If DF seems to be close to UO, it's only because everyone else moved so far away from it. 

  outfctrl

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4/29/13 8:19:17 AM#54
I remember playing UO before Trammel went in.  I worked on getting my hiding skill up.  This gave some hope of not being ganked.  DF:UW does not have a skill like this, so you are totally open.  I wish they had the hiding skill in for crafters and explorers.

  Badaboom

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Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2401

4/29/13 9:37:17 AM#55
Originally posted by outfctrl
I remember playing UO before Trammel went in.  I worked on getting my hiding skill up.  This gave some hope of not being ganked.  DF:UW does not have a skill like this, so you are totally open.  I wish they had the hiding skill in for crafters and explorers.

They do.  Line of sight.  Plus 3d directional sound.  When you hear someone hide or kill them.  When they see you, lose them and hide.

  Aragon100

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Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2236

4/29/13 9:42:12 AM#56
Originally posted by outfctrl
I remember playing UO before Trammel went in.  I worked on getting my hiding skill up.  This gave some hope of not being ganked.  DF:UW does not have a skill like this, so you are totally open.  I wish they had the hiding skill in for crafters and explorers.

Agree but the "PvP"-crowd in DFUW isnt the skilled oldschool UO PvP:ers, they want defenseless easy prey to gank. They're actually not PvP:ers they're griefers. Crafters gathering ore solo outside safe areas is just this easy prey these poor excuses of PvP:ers search. During UO the skilled PvP crowd usually searched a challenge but that spirit is long gone in these so called "UO" replacement MMO:s, what a joke.

  Remyi

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Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 14

4/29/13 9:51:11 AM#57

I really enjoyed pre-Trammel UO... other than the fact I was stuck with dialup because of my location. It made things pretty interesting, to say the least. I couldn't stand the original Darkfall, or Mortal Online. I looked at Unholy Wars, and I don't think I would even bother with it.

  outfctrl

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4/29/13 10:44:54 AM#58
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by outfctrl
I remember playing UO before Trammel went in.  I worked on getting my hiding skill up.  This gave some hope of not being ganked.  DF:UW does not have a skill like this, so you are totally open.  I wish they had the hiding skill in for crafters and explorers.

They do.  Line of sight.  Plus 3d directional sound.  When you hear someone hide or kill them.  When they see you, lose them and hide.

So what you are saying, is that this game supports complete surround sound systems?

  Badaboom

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4/29/13 10:58:17 AM#59
Originally posted by outfctrl
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by outfctrl
I remember playing UO before Trammel went in.  I worked on getting my hiding skill up.  This gave some hope of not being ganked.  DF:UW does not have a skill like this, so you are totally open.  I wish they had the hiding skill in for crafters and explorers.

They do.  Line of sight.  Plus 3d directional sound.  When you hear someone hide or kill them.  When they see you, lose them and hide.

So what you are saying, is that this game supports complete surround sound systems?

I guess so.  I use my head phones and I can tell the direction (most of the time) of the mob or noisy player. 

  outfctrl

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Joined: 11/16/03
Posts: 3630

American by Birth
Biker by choice
Patriot forever

4/29/13 11:06:10 AM#60
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by outfctrl
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by outfctrl
I remember playing UO before Trammel went in.  I worked on getting my hiding skill up.  This gave some hope of not being ganked.  DF:UW does not have a skill like this, so you are totally open.  I wish they had the hiding skill in for crafters and explorers.

They do.  Line of sight.  Plus 3d directional sound.  When you hear someone hide or kill them.  When they see you, lose them and hide.

So what you are saying, is that this game supports complete surround sound systems?

I guess so.  I use my head phones and I can tell the direction (most of the time) of the mob or noisy player. 

Havent bought the game yet.  I have been lurking around the forums, reading the manual, watching Youtubes and looking at the ratings.

I have a surround sound system in my game room and was curious if it utuilized all the speakers.  Most of the games I have played, don't.

I will search a little more.  Would be nice if it did.

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