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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Will FireFall Rise or Fall?

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55 posts found
  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3565

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/24/13 4:39:24 AM#41

As you can tell, I've been around here for awhile.  I've seen games come, I've seen games go.  I've been in the Firefall closed beta for more than a year now.  In that time the game has changed enormously.  There is much more content now, many of the major problems have been dealt with, and the game has evolved to an enjoyable state.

Part of the problem that many people have missed, is that this is a REAL beta test.  Its very much a work in progress.  Its not the usual beta test, that all too many companies use to hype their game.  That being the case, its neither content nor feature complete yet.  Anyone coming into it, without that understanding, is bound to be disappointed. 

The next six months to a year will tell the tale.  If Grummz and the rest of Red5 can add in the features they have spoken of, and polish the game, it has the potential to gain a stable, loyal player base. But with The9 having serious problems, I'd say the clock is ticking.

  TehTic

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/13
Posts: 41

4/24/13 5:15:50 AM#42
Originally posted by KingofHartz
Maybe EA will buy it

EA would not touch this nightmare as it has to deal with Mark.

http://forums.firefallthegame.com/community/threads/horrible-comments-why.94283/

Later on in this article you can see how wishy-washy Mark is as he entertains a fan boys on Firefall website. Stating that MMORPG.com hates all games.

 
  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1001

4/24/13 8:46:29 AM#43
My problem has always been, the game seems to be changing alot, but not neccisarily improving content wise (granted game perfomance has come a LONG way from the constant "connection interupted" days).  They are still at the laying the foundation stage of things, after having ripped up the foundation and laid a new one, twice over.  At some point the rest of the house has to be built, or you just wont have enough resources to finish.
  grummz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/07
Posts: 56

4/24/13 9:53:18 AM#44

Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.

We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.

But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.

Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.

Follow me on <a href="https://twitter.com/grummz">Twitter: @Grummz</a>

  KaiserPhoenix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 63

4/25/13 8:39:53 AM#45

grummz, you can copy individual aspects of each game you want your game to have.

The most important aspects are world, how your character is controlled, feels and interacts with it and the progression reward system to keep people logging on and playing.

 

  KaiserPhoenix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 63

4/25/13 10:12:29 AM#46
and another thing, wasn't planetside 1 a mmofps aswell?
  Glimpse1972

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 2

4/25/13 10:23:43 AM#47

Well, I Love the game.

 

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

4/25/13 11:29:32 AM#48
It just seems like there are so many MMOs coming out this year that some of these are bound to get lost in the shuffle...I get the feeling that Firefall will be on of these.
  khessmd

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 12

4/27/13 6:00:44 PM#49
I wish I would have known this sooner. I just dropped $100 on Fire fall a few weeks ago. I've been having a lot of fun with it and was looking forward to seeing further development in the campaign story and more world events. I sure hope this game continues to be developed to at least give me some fun from time to time if nothing else.

Kev

  Jorl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/05/12
Posts: 262

4/27/13 6:19:20 PM#50
I haven't been on for few months, but these "fan Boys" have a point (with out the insults and QQing) it is Beta, and every one should know what Beta means. If the game fails during devlopment it will likely be due to costs and funding. The economy isn't going well, as I'm sure every one is aware of and it wont be the only game that will likely fall because of the crisis we're having.
  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

4/27/13 6:38:01 PM#51
Originally posted by grummz

Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.

We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.

But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.

Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.

You realize the reason people stopped playing was because there was nothing to do (other than grind thumper groups), right? Not because of problems with core mechanics. You're designing content for 10 levels, then wondering why people don't stick around to reach level 50.

You people change core mechanics like most people change underwear, and it's going to cost you in the end. I for one have absolutely no confidence left in Red5. And that's a shame.

  Zephlos

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 37

7/10/13 5:29:44 AM#52
Originally posted by Rednecksith
Originally posted by grummz

Sure, we've changed the game significantly at its foundation several times. But each time was necessary. There is not successful blueprint of how to make a PvE MMOFPS. There was nothing to copy, nothing to emulate. When I worked on WoW, we had Everquest to emulate.

We tried levels, tiers and now resource based progression. Levels was copied from MMOs, but it didn't feel right for a shooter and people were voting by quitting early and not playing as much. When we switched to tiers, retention shot way up, but it still had fundamental broken issues that were highlighted by the community. When we switched to resource based progression, and the new crafting system, we had an interesting result. The bad part was that it alienated half our users as much as it entertained the other half. The good news was that metrics were up everywhere...people are playing for longer and are more engaged than ever before. Now we have to work on the alienation of a good chunk of our users due to an incomplete crafting UI and testling limits on progresssion being made too difficult.

But we don't make these chnages on a whim. Had we shipped with the original leveling system, the game would have been a disaster. Thankfullly, since we develop features with our community, we discovered the problem early on. We share features early, before the last 10% where 90% of the work is, so that we *can* make these changes without throwing away a ton of work, or become so invested in a system that we refuse to change it.

Our process has been a new one for all of us, devs and community. But we can measure its success and improvements each step, while avoiding some bad systems that got put to rest early...all thanks to community driven development.

You realize the reason people stopped playing was because there was nothing to do (other than grind thumper groups), right? Not because of problems with core mechanics. You're designing content for 10 levels, then wondering why people don't stick around to reach level 50.

You people change core mechanics like most people change underwear, and it's going to cost you in the end. I for one have absolutely no confidence left in Red5. And that's a shame.

Yep, what he said.

Adding this bit in myself.

Stop trying to spin everything. Stop  playing a hype/propaganda game with your supporters. Stop lying about how long you have been in beta, just stop lying to in general.  

  KaosLegion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 63

7/10/13 5:39:25 AM#53
I always thought I'd be stonewalled by the resource grind but I'm finding this build is actually quiet enjoyable. As I've suggested previously lock in the systems then push out the content. I think we are getting closer.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

7/10/13 6:05:52 AM#54
Originally posted by Battlerock
Maybe EA will buy it

SOE typically waits until after release. Then buys-and-neglects for several years.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Codenak

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/08
Posts: 418

7/10/13 6:46:48 AM#55

On the MMORPG hates every game, It could possibly be valuable to have a site like this, it allows people to vent but they aren't doing it on your own site. Yes you lack the control here that you would there but you also manage to avoid the censorship drama.

It also acts as a counterweight to fanboism and over-hype which i believe is endemic in the industry.

It could be a useful tool to those who care to view it as such in that "This is the worst that is being said, do we need to fix anything?"

F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html

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