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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Water War in CU

12 posts found
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/22/13 1:56:15 AM#1

MJ has said no under water fighting, I'm very happy about that. MJ has not said no fighting IN water and I happen to have an idea on how water can be implemented to work with the CU supply line system.

All rivers would be mostly shallow. I say mostly because I like the idea of the rivers having some deep spots the sneak up on the players which may result in the drowning of a tank.

Due to the veil being pierced water levels throughout the relms are lower than they were (see I even tried to make it work with the story). Also since the veil created some earth shaking chaos the river system has vastly expanded. So what we are left with is a vast chain of very shallow rivers, roughly waist high with the aforementioned random sink pools.

"But Tierless what is the point, why not just have more roads so we don't have to walk in water"

I'll tell you why, barges. Old school ones that look like floating docks. They float supplies well, maybe even faster than some roads depending on the destination and route.

I can picture it now. My friends and I on our barge, a nice pile of resources in the middle, all 8 of us standing around it. It's been quiet, too quiet. Floating down a shallow river with cliffs and trees on either side in this game is always nerve racking, but this is by far the quickest route, going around would take hours! In the distance is a bridge, I lean into my screen "bridge ahead everyone be ready just in case"

I msg my scout companions that are on the river bank just ahead of us, they say it looks clear but you never know where those BSC stealthers are waiting. The water looks darker, it's probably deeper here. Some of us keep our armor on. It's a calculated risk. Will we get boarded and knocked into the water to drown, or will we land in a shallow spot where we can fight? Best case scenario we don't have to fight at all. Our builders made this trip before, he's a good driver, he knows which spots to avoid, running aground on this river is certain death.

An incoming message pops into my chat. "We took out a stealther on the bridge but I'm pretty sure he saw you first, he's a River Rat"

Great, if he saw us his entire guild was probably incoming. I swear those guys have nothing better to do than harass barges all day long.

"We better put out a call to arms in guild chat, hopefully we have a few guildmates in the area, I can't stomach losing any more resources to those RR newbs."

Ah, now doesn't that sound nice? Since the water is wasteish high we could still fight in it without going into special water mode. It's deep enough to float resources in, but shallow enough to stand and fight in, maybe with a speed de-buff.

Since dry rivers form tall cliffs it's also a natural spot for ambushes, and bridges would be nice spots for traps or control points. Not to mention some shallow lakes with towns and docs around them would also be nice.

If it had to be simplified a bit more the barges could be extremely old school, where they don't take passengers but rather we all walk in the water dragging it by ropes. That might make for some interesting drowning stories.

Yes, no, yesno?

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  VassagoMael

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 539

4/22/13 2:04:54 AM#2
I was hoping this was going to have something to do with ship combat, not water lore...

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  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/22/13 2:14:09 AM#3


Originally posted by VassagoMael
I was hoping this was going to have something to do with ship combat, not water lore...

Ship combat in an ocean is meh, spend too much time looking, not enough fighting. I like how the rivers would narrow down the places to look.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  taurak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 174

4/22/13 6:04:26 AM#4

Or you could play World of Tanks and RP that your tank is a boat.

Just sayin.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/22/13 12:43:04 PM#5


Originally posted by taurak
Or you could play World of Tanks and RP that your tank is a boat.

Just sayin.


I'd rather play CU and RP that it's Water World...no...no I dont.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

4/22/13 1:02:47 PM#6
I thought the bit about punishing someone in plate for even going into the water was a fairly clear sign that any combat in water is probably a no go. We'll see though. I don't mind either way.
  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 1:12:19 PM#7

The only water combat there should be is floating slowly through deep water ( to deter people from using it and force over bridges ) and ankle / knee high swamps surrounding stuff.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

4/22/13 1:21:15 PM#8

Historically (pre-engine powered tugs), most barges have been propelled by being pulled by teams of mules/horses on the shore with a tow rope to the barge, certain up-stream, but even down-stream for control.  The reason transport was faster this way is that the cargo was already on a platform that could be floated over water "obstacles" and the carrying capacity of a barge is far, far greater than any wagon that the same team of animals could pull.  The main drawback is that you had to go where the river took you.  The primary fix to that was a system of canals.

So, if we can dig canals to be our water-highways to carry our largest pre-fabs, then putting them on barges makes sense.  Otherwise, I see rivers as obstacles to travel, for which builders can build bridges or rafts to cross.

Lawt

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/22/13 3:46:26 PM#9


Originally posted by Lawtoween
Historically (pre-engine powered tugs), most barges have been propelled by being pulled by teams of mules/horses on the shore with a tow rope to the barge, certain up-stream, but even down-stream for control.  The reason transport was faster this way is that the cargo was already on a platform that could be floated over water "obstacles" and the carrying capacity of a barge is far, far greater than any wagon that the same team of animals could pull.  The main drawback is that you had to go where the river took you.  The primary fix to that was a system of canals.

So, if we can dig canals to be our water-highways to carry our largest pre-fabs, then putting them on barges makes sense.  Otherwise, I see rivers as obstacles to travel, for which builders can build bridges or rafts to cross.

Lawt


Thanks for the history. If it was this historically accurate it would make for some crazy PVP. Mules running all over the place while fighting breaks out, the barge running into the shore and getting stuck, armored people drowning. Sounds like fun to me.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Vargur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 143

4/23/13 6:09:30 AM#10

I think having some shallow waters for people to ford, as well as bridges that works as chokepoints, could make for some interesting scenarios. Tactically, it could also make people have to account for it.

I think water should be divided into fordable and unfordable areas. Some rivers are too deep or flows too fast to be forded, and people need to cross at bridges. Rivers that are fordable should impose movement speed restrictions based upon how difficult it is to cross.

Other areas like swamps could also have some speed restrictions.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/24/13 12:52:26 AM#11


Originally posted by Vargur
I think having some shallow waters for people to ford, as well as bridges that works as chokepoints, could make for some interesting scenarios. Tactically, it could also make people have to account for it.

I think water should be divided into fordable and unfordable areas. Some rivers are too deep or flows too fast to be forded, and people need to cross at bridges. Rivers that are fordable should impose movement speed restrictions based upon how difficult it is to cross.

Other areas like swamps could also have some speed restrictions.


I asked MJ about it on the Kickstarter comments section. He said something like, shallow, he plans to use it...sounds interesting.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Stiler

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

4/24/13 1:06:50 AM#12

I'm hoping water serves tactical purposes.

 

While people can swim , and horses can swim to (contrary to what some video games seem to think) it should limit movement speed and create natural barriers for some things.

 

Waterways were used all throughotu history for many reasons, from a means to transport goods before railroads could carry them across land , to defensive means , such as man made Moats, etc.

 

Moats are one of the main area's I'd like to see water play a part, which stops siege engiens from getting near it's walls, sappers from sapping them, etc. A moated castle should be one of the highest level defenses in the game and the best defense for many things.

 

Rivers and "natural" waterways can stop mules/caravans from crossing (and thus bridges play an important role  and create bottlenecks) as well as high banks, etc.

Anyone that attempts to swim through water faces a heavy movement penality and and is unable to attack from the water, thus they are left very vunerable to attack (imagine archers on top of the riverside firing into the enemy trying to swim across).