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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » CU: The Niche MMO that is trying to kickstart on a Triple-A budget

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84 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/23/13 8:30:42 PM#61
Originally posted by Tayah
Why do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.

i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 616

4/23/13 8:57:25 PM#62
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.

And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.

First of all, there is no "actual game" yet.  There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release.  You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.

You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.

The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."

They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.

 

It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.

It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job. The reason that people make these ignorant posts as you claim them to be is because CSE is failing at their job of selling the game. There is no way that this game will get funded. Plain and simple. They want 2 million dollars and have nothing to show for it. There reference information isn't even organized. Don't blame the people, blame CSE. I am sorry that you won't get your game. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

4/23/13 11:11:55 PM#63
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.

And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.

First of all, there is no "actual game" yet.  There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release.  You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.

You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.

The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."

They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.

 

It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.

It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.

You can't be serious.

There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.

CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.

 

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

4/23/13 11:26:09 PM#64


Originally posted by stevebombsquad

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by ZedTheRock SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.  
AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference. And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.
First of all, there is no "actual game" yet.  There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release.  You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.
You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release. The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring." They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.   It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.
It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job. The reason that people make these ignorant posts as you claim them to be is because CSE is failing at their job of selling the game. There is no way that this game will get funded. Plain and simple. They want 2 million dollars and have nothing to show for it. There reference information isn't even organized. Don't blame the people, blame CSE. I am sorry that you won't get your game. 

You remember that other MMO company that went from 0 to a newtowrk/login stress test in 2.5 weeks and dared to do it on a live stream for all potential backer? Oh, thats right, no, you don't because none of the other have had the balls to try it.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

4/23/13 11:27:37 PM#65


Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Tayah Why do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.

/agree

If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2382

4/23/13 11:31:26 PM#66
Originally posted by UOlover

It's only niche for the funding. On release day there will be the usual zerg of players because quite frankly people are desparate for anything new.

and everquest next, that's a triple-A budget game

You wont get a zerg of players.  Most people don't now, and won't later know what CU even is.  It will likely fall into the same trap as Darkfall and Mortal Online.  PvP MMO's only get small audiences.  Then again, if less than 50,000 players is what they are going for, then perhaps all is well.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5553

4/24/13 12:38:34 AM#67
Originally posted by Tierless

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Tayah Why do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.

/agree

If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.

If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.

 

The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.

 

People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything? 

 

 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  grogstorm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 287

If it ain't broke, dont fix it!

4/24/13 12:44:38 AM#68

Heck the average cost for a single Denny’s franchise is $1.18-$2.4 Mil.  And I can tell you that they are far from AAA.  I know they are not related, but $2 Mil. for a multinational operation is peanuts.

Grog

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

 
OP  4/24/13 12:54:32 AM#69
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

The amount of trolling traffic far out weighs that of the vocal fanbase.  The CU community was very active on these forums until moderation became questionable and the trolls consistently roamed freely.  Granted, some of the "fanbois" were equally as aggressive back to the attention whoring posters that visited.  Most of us got tired of the crap that went on here and relocated.

Nonetheless, $5 million to develop a game that will would have 30k-70k+ subscribers is not a higher request margin.  It's extremely low for the overhead during development.

The point the OP was making is that this game doesn't have 30-70K followers, *currently*, who are willing to fund it, so having such a high goal right away is silly.  Crowdfunding isn't the same as getting real investors, and it should be treated as a way to get partial funding...and by partial I mean having realistic expectations about how big their initiail following will be.

 

Thank you, this was the exact point I tried to make, granted I used a little hyperbole and wordsmithing to spicen it up which could be a mistake I suppose.

 

The point remains, CU crowd funding is entirely too high and at 2 mill, will never be reached.  MJ should of kept it at 1 million tops because its marketed at a niche audience and to attempt to crowdfund it at 2 million is a joke and shows just out of touch Mark is in the current MMO market.

SUP

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

 
OP  4/24/13 12:57:31 AM#70
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.

And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.

First of all, there is no "actual game" yet.  There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release.  You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.

You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.

The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."

They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.

 

It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.

It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.

You can't be serious.

There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.

CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.

 

And yet zero evidence of the foundation of the game with gameplay video or pre-alpha footage.  His point is more valid then some blind fanboi'ish rant that most CU backers do on a daily basis.

SUP

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2592

4/24/13 9:02:18 AM#71
Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.

And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.

First of all, there is no "actual game" yet.  There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release.  You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.

You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.

The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."

They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.

 

It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.

It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.

You can't be serious.

There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.

CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.

 

And yet zero evidence of the foundation of the game with gameplay video or pre-alpha footage.  His point is more valid then some blind fanboi'ish rant that most CU backers do on a daily basis.

Please leave until you learn what Kickstarter is.

And there have been 5 videos of pre alpha footage. Probably more.

  BreezeDM

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/11
Posts: 4

4/24/13 9:18:56 AM#72
Originally posted by grogstorm

Heck the average cost for a single Denny’s franchise is $1.18-$2.4 Mil.  And I can tell you that they are far from AAA.  I know they are not related, but $2 Mil. for a multinational operation is peanuts.

Its 5 million. 2 million from KS, 2 Million from MJ, 1 Million from investors. Yes, definately not AAA money for a MMO which would be 25-50 million. But this is a RvRvR only game with 12 classes.  They plan on spending 3-4 years making it. I would assume that the last year could be funded by more investors and/or preorders. So they have 5 million for 2-3 years. That is probably enough for 15-20 employees with 5-10 part time contracted.  They are basically creating classes, a game engine, plus the content of New Frontiers from DAoC. Definately do able with experienced talented people. 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/24/13 11:17:06 AM#73
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Tierless

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Tayah Why do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.

/agree

If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.

If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.

 

The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.

 

People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything? 

 

 

curious to how you know there complete financial profile and what they can and cannot afford.. from what I have see to even get a decent kickstarter going for a large project you already are going to need to put a lot of money in. Also why put all the financial burdon on yourself on a game that no one may have interest in? why would MJ spend millions to make CS if only 10k people max were even interested at all.. KS is a good way to feel out the audience of a game and allow for input and ideas from fans as you progress through the development process... but again to you personally what does it really matter at all?

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Dahkoht

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 289

4/24/13 11:46:58 AM#74

Has the OP responded in this thread explaining how he/she thinks 2 million is "triple A" money territory in development terms ?

It's peanuts compared to actual Triple A budgets for games.

Not sure where they got this silly idea.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 11:52:52 AM#75
It makes for a punchy soundbite , even if its nonsense.
  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

4/24/13 11:55:04 AM#76
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget.  Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.

$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

 
OP  4/24/13 11:59:03 AM#77
Originally posted by Stromm
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget.  Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.

$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.

$2 million is entirely too much to try and KS a niche MMO like CU.  More well Rounded KS games have been funded by less starting money.  This shows 2 things:

  1. Mark Jacobs and CSE are greedy or
  2. Mark Jacobs and CSE do not know their own game demographics and a failure to Crowd Fund a niche game with a proper starting KS campaign is systemic of all the negativity he has reaped over the years.
I would wager its the latter.

SUP

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 616

4/24/13 12:00:45 PM#78
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

AAA MMOs are about 300 million. This is 2 million. Bit of a difference.

And most of the detractors are completely ignorant of the actual game. They've made a base assumption (which is fine, and makes sense, if you don't get hooked by the base idea why would you dig into the details?) so most of the fans spend their time informing the people who make these sweeping conclusions.

First of all, there is no "actual game" yet.  There's a current design map of some kind (I would hope) and a tiny bit of development with probably somewhere north of two full years of dev to come before release.  You would be wise to understand that everything and anything can change between now and then, including the entire project failing outright.

You totally ignored what I said and dropped in something entirely irrelavent. Of course the game may change from now until release.

The point I was making is, I've seen so many threads of "No PvE? Not backing." or "All RvR all the time? That's boring."

They make huge assumptions based on snippets of information and lose interest, when in reality, if they read about how the game is actually designed to be, it's nothing like their assumptions claim it is. The problem is, once these folks are turned off by snippets of misinformation, they will not dig for more information and realize their assumptions are inaccurate, and why would they? Can't blame them all that much. What we CAN blame them for (and what has been REALLY annoying) is when people make ignorant posts and tons of threads spouting their misinformation and generally complaining/publically announcing that they don't like the game, and calling other people fools for liking it.

 

It's fine to remain ignorant of a game that doesn't interest you, but don't stink up the forums announcing your ignorance to the world, and then don't complain about "fabois" when they try to correct you.

It is CSE's job to get the information out. They have done a horrible job.

You can't be serious.

There have been 27+ updates to their Kickstarter with new information in all of it. In each update there is long text, a video, AND a bullet point summary of what is covered in the updated. There are many compiled FAQs and roundups of information posted on the Kickstarter and in other places.

CU is overflowing with information and art and videos and interviews. It takes absolutely no effort at all to find it.

 

Obviously the information isn't getting off the kickstarter boards to the people. Again that is my case in point. And if it is, then apparently most people could care less as it is funded and I would be willing to bet not going to be funded. I would say that you have a whole lot of faith in some people that have nothing real to show other than a bunch of good ideas. Sounds kind of like the people that post on these forums.....

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Dahkoht

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 289

4/24/13 12:03:31 PM#79
Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by Stromm
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget.  Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.

$2million is chump change by AAA MMO standards. BioWare probably spent more than that on the free coffee in their canteens. You need to adjust your perspectives.

$2 million is entirely too much to try and KS a niche MMO like CU.  More well Rounded KS games have been funded by less starting money.  This shows 2 things:

  1. Mark Jacobs and CSE are greedy or
  2. Mark Jacobs and CSE do not know their own game demographics and a failure to Crowd Fund a niche game with a proper starting KS campaign is systemic of all the negativity he has reaped over the years.
I would wager its the latter.

 

You said in your title "triple A budget".

This shows one important thing.

1.You don't have a grasp on financials in the real world.

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/24/13 12:17:03 PM#80
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Tierless

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Tayah Why do others care what people do with their money? I guess haters just gonna hate.
i'm still curious on peoples big opposition towards KS.. if a game goes up on KS funds and is great well great!.. if it funds and fails well obviously those who hate KS didn't pledge so why would they care? Just seems odd how many get all up and arms over KS.

/agree

If the fools would just realize that KS funded MMOs will put pressure on the other companies to make better games this would all be for the better. But instead, like most people, they see something new, fear it like a bunch of neanderthals then try to kill it and eat it.

If anything, what I see is people that actually can fund games without Kickstarter are using sucker's money to reduce their risk. Like most people, all you have to do is feed them a glimmer of hope and they're ready to empty their wallets and praise the next Messiah. Fortunately for the shysters, money matters less to people than it ever has before.

 

The next step to Kickstarter won't show the world that regular people can guide the MMO industry away from the big bad corporations. That's just silly. Even Mark Jacobs has said he's looking for a small/niche audience of 50k people or so. No, the next step in the Kickstarter bonanza is extreme criticism of the products that are produced and delivered. The next step involves watching the MMO community pulverize whatever MMO creations that are actually born of Kickstarter.

 

People already make games without the big publishers all the time without Kickstarter. Why would you think that Kickstarter would change anything? 

Maybe they can do the game themself. But what do we care? Just imagine if somebody comes and tells you "I can make a great game for you that you'll really like, but i don't want to use my own money to do it, so give me your money and i'll do it".

What is the problem with that? How is it different from somebody telling you "Here is a great game, give me money and i give it to you"? Will you stop buying any game because the big company selling them already have tons of money?

And we don't even know if MJ can afford to fund this himself. He already said he wouldn't get any money from that KS, and he is giving $2M, meaning he won't get a cent untill they sell the first boxes and subs.

I don't get that mentality of "I will throw away any fun i could have if it means i'll prevent somebody else to have more money than me".

 

If the game is appreciated by the small niche audiance, it means any indie that find a similar niche for another type of game will have chances to make some money. So more indies will try it, and there will be more and more small niche games. And 50k by 50k, it'll eat away on the big corporations audiance.

 

Do you have any example of an MMO created by anyone else than a big publisher without KS? With, of course, a small enough budget, or it would mean you still need the big publisher. I would be curious to see them.

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