Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Firefall | H1Z1 | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,852,062 Users Online:0
Games:733  Posts:6,226,641
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Explain this idea of "Immersion" to me.

11 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Search
209 posts found
  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1047

4/23/13 7:07:09 PM#161
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by corpusc

i don't have time to put into a "proper" message on the subject, but

 

it's a mistake to conflate role playing with immersion.  

they may be great buddies, and role playing probably would require some level of immersion to work.

but i never roleplay, and immersion is very important to me. 

i like being my real life self in another world.

I play like this too.  SWG was cool because you could pretty much just be yourself in that game and still basically be in RP mode following Star Wars lore.  Some people go full RP, and though I didn't do it much, I appreciated them.  They helped enhance my experience even more.

Agreed on that.  Half the time, the image of the character is just a feeling about my toon in the world at the back of my mind as I am playing (and somtimes daydreaming about it when I am not.)  Roleplaying isn't absolutely necessary, but an immersive game almost pushes you to want to do it and certainly makes it easy to not mind if others are doing it.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

4/23/13 7:14:34 PM#162
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by corpusc

i don't have time to put into a "proper" message on the subject, but

 

it's a mistake to conflate role playing with immersion.  

they may be great buddies, and role playing probably would require some level of immersion to work.

but i never roleplay, and immersion is very important to me. 

i like being my real life self in another world.

I play like this too.  SWG was cool because you could pretty much just be yourself in that game and still basically be in RP mode following Star Wars lore.  Some people go full RP, and though I didn't do it much, I appreciated them.  They helped enhance my experience even more.

Agreed on that.  Half the time, the image of the character is just a feeling about my chacter in the world at the back of my mind as I am playing (and someones daydreaming about it when I am not.)  Roleplaying isn't absolutely necessary, but an immersive game almost pushes you to want to do it and certainly makes it easy to not mind if others are doing it.

One of the coolest experiences I had was when I joined a Jedi guild in SWG, and they made me come to their temple (a decked-out guild hall) for my initiation process.  They called in their lead players from all over the game (multiple planets) to assemble a counsel, ask me questions about my goals as a jedi, and why I wanted to join their guild, and then they made me fight one of their higher level members to see if I had any skill.  It was an awesome experience that took about an hour.

When I was done I took the time to thikn about what had just happened.  I had a full-on Star Wars moment that was completely created by other players.  They took the time to stop what they were doing to initiate me, and they probably loved it as much or more than I did.

THAT my friends, is one of the MANY stark differences between a game that gives you the tools to forge your own story in a deep game world, and one that stuffs someone else's story, class, etc down your throat for you.   I'll take the former any time over the latter. 

That's just one example too. During the years (yes, years) that I played SWG, I had many such experiences that were completely player created and driven.  Man do I miss having a game like that.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19537

4/23/13 10:20:42 PM#163
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

I don't have issue with convenience...but to the degree it has gone in MMORPG's, it's completely rendered them unrecognizeable. They really are just glorifed console games for the PC now.

 

Good. Some console games (like Dishonered) are more fun, to me, than 90% of MMOs.

This is called adapting to the market. They are much better games now. If they don't put in these kind of feautres, how can they compete with games like LoL, WoT and Diablo 3?

But that's what you don't seem to get. MMORPG's don't have to compete with those types of games...as they are geared toward a different market and playerbase. Unless like Blizzard....the greed factor has taken complete control rather than modest profits.

They don't have to .. but they want to. Otherwise, why do you think we are here talking? If MMORPG is not trying to get my business by putting in many of those features, do you think i would give a d*mn and post here?

Face it, many MMORPG devs would LOVE to have the FPS players, the RPG players, the casual players. You can call it greed, business sense, or whatever. If they don't make MMORPGs into better games, i wouldn't even be here.

So if you do not enjoy seeing opposite opinions from me, you can blame the MMO devs too.

BTW, Blizz is very successful in mergine the markets. Do you know how many WOW players play Diablo3?

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

4/23/13 10:28:30 PM#164
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

I don't have issue with convenience...but to the degree it has gone in MMORPG's, it's completely rendered them unrecognizeable. They really are just glorifed console games for the PC now.

Good. Some console games (like Dishonered) are more fun, to me, than 90% of MMOs.

This is called adapting to the market. They are much better games now. If they don't put in these kind of feautres, how can they compete with games like LoL, WoT and Diablo 3?

But that's what you don't seem to get. MMORPG's don't have to compete with those types of games...as they are geared toward a different market and playerbase. Unless like Blizzard....the greed factor has taken complete control rather than modest profits.

They don't have to .. but they want to. Otherwise, why do you think we are here talking? If MMORPG is not trying to get my business by putting in many of those features, do you think i would give a d*mn and post here?

Face it, many MMORPG devs would LOVE to have the FPS players, the RPG players, the casual players. You can call it greed, business sense, or whatever. If they don't make MMORPGs into better games, i wouldn't even be here.

So if you do not enjoy seeing opposite opinions from me, you can blame the MMO devs too.

BTW, Blizz is very successful in mergine the markets. Do you know how many WOW players play Diablo3?

Actually.. they kinda do. The gaming industry is extremely saturated atm (both with MMOs and various other types of games). Furthermore the amount of multiplayer games has increased substancially over the years. The way MMOs work they NEED a big playerbase to survive. Otherwise the games feel dead/ lifeless, or are varying degrees of unplayable.

Basically what's happening is the lines between MMOs and other games is being blurred. They're slowly becoming the same thing. The problem this creates is with those that view MMOs as virtual worlds only. While virtual worlds can be pretty awesome, they also generally have to sacrifice a lot in terms of gameplay to be like that. Essentially the closer a game gets to a virutal world, the more it becomes like real life, which often translates into less fun.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19537

4/23/13 10:40:03 PM#165
Originally posted by aesperus

Basically what's happening is the lines between MMOs and other games is being blurred. They're slowly becoming the same thing. The problem this creates is with those that view MMOs as virtual worlds only. While virtual worlds can be pretty awesome, they also generally have to sacrifice a lot in terms of gameplay to be like that. Essentially the closer a game gets to a virutal world, the more it becomes like real life, which often translates into less fun.

Yeah .. very keen observations. Diablo 3 has MMO elements. PoE has MMO elements. Many MMOs have SP or online game elements. Many online games like LoL, and WOT are pulling the e-sport players from MMOs.

And MMOs are expensive to make, they really need to compete better with other more focused games.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/23/13 10:56:06 PM#166

No wonder certain people don't get immersion...   they keep playing MMOs. Matter-of-fact... they can't stop talking about non-immersive games & how much they like them....

To bad they are in a MMORPG forum and not an arcade forum. 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

4/24/13 3:08:51 AM#167

You can't expect a MMO to compete with an arcade game in its niche area. Those games and MMO's will be better than a more general MMO at what they do best.

An example of such a poor design decision was the Space Flight missions in SWTOR. No way could they live up to what an arcade style space shooter has to offer. A cheap as chips Elite style trading and space flight would have been better.

Why? Because there is no Elite style trading game out there. There is no genre of games to compete against. But EA went the easy route and paid the price.

MMO's have to be built solidly in the areas they are best at. Questing, Crafting, Housing, Faction PvP, Community and the like.

  Sulaa

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 838

4/24/13 4:13:49 AM#168

"Immersion" is a word that descibe how well game can 'pull player in' to temporary forget that's he/she is playing a game.  It's concept that is connected to, but separate from 'escapism'.

Of course there is diffrence in this matter between certain player 'groups'. 

1. Some players are unable to get immersed in any game and (or) they don't care or don't even want to get immersed in first place.

2. Some other players are immersed by goofyness and sillysness. So things like, (but not limited to) slapstick comedy elements or 'out of place' funny elements may actually immerse them.

3. Some other players are immersed by cinematic presentation.  So things like, (but not limited to) cutscenes immerse them.

4. Some other players are immersed by 'beliavibility and coherence' of the game. So things like, (but not limited to) seamlessness or no-real world elements / influences in game immerse them.

 

 

Creating an immersive game for all group of players is impossible, because some elements that may immerse one group of players - may break immersion for other group of players.   So it's important to assert who's main target of the game, instead of trying to appease everyone, because that won't work anymore.  That's of course just licking the surface and this topic is quite complicated.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19537

4/24/13 11:01:39 AM#169
Originally posted by Scot

You can't expect a MMO to compete with an arcade game in its niche area. Those games and MMO's will be better than a more general MMO at what they do best.

An example of such a poor design decision was the Space Flight missions in SWTOR. No way could they live up to what an arcade style space shooter has to offer. A cheap as chips Elite style trading and space flight would have been better.

Why? Because there is no Elite style trading game out there. There is no genre of games to compete against. But EA went the easy route and paid the price.

MMO's have to be built solidly in the areas they are best at. Questing, Crafting, Housing, Faction PvP, Community and the like.

Of course you can. You don't have to be the best to get some business. Look at FPSes for an example. Bioshock Infinite is probably the best, or one of the best. You don't have to beat it to make money.

Take STO. Is it better than Bioshock Infinite as a SP game? Probably not. However, it is the ONLY Star Trek based RPG out there. Why shouldn't it do some SP missions? In that segment of market, it is the best.

BTW, MMO is NOT the best in questing, pvp nor community. There are plenty of other online games that are better. Heck, how can MMO the best at pvp when there are pvp centric online games? You argument of specialization applies here too.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5233

4/25/13 2:33:48 AM#170
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot

You can't expect a MMO to compete with an arcade game in its niche area. Those games and MMO's will be better than a more general MMO at what they do best.

An example of such a poor design decision was the Space Flight missions in SWTOR. No way could they live up to what an arcade style space shooter has to offer. A cheap as chips Elite style trading and space flight would have been better.

Why? Because there is no Elite style trading game out there. There is no genre of games to compete against. But EA went the easy route and paid the price.

MMO's have to be built solidly in the areas they are best at. Questing, Crafting, Housing, Faction PvP, Community and the like.

Of course you can. You don't have to be the best to get some business. Look at FPSes for an example. Bioshock Infinite is probably the best, or one of the best. You don't have to beat it to make money.

Take STO. Is it better than Bioshock Infinite as a SP game? Probably not. However, it is the ONLY Star Trek based RPG out there. Why shouldn't it do some SP missions? In that segment of market, it is the best.

BTW, MMO is NOT the best in questing, pvp nor community. There are plenty of other online games that are better. Heck, how can MMO the best at pvp when there are pvp centric online games? You argument of specialization applies here too.

There is an element of what’s in the mix. MMO’s can have that unique mix that makes them stand out from other online games.

I have never played a solo rpg that had better questing than the first twenty levels of AoC, the Fellowship quests of Lotro or the Class quests of SWTOR. MMO’s are up there with the best any other game has in questing.

I have never played PvP better than DAOC. In their own way other games have great faction PvP such as PS2. But this is a different type of PvP. Indeed PS2 is essentially a stepping stone between Battlefield style PvP and MMO faction based PvP.

Again with community, MMO’s are up there with the best or are the best.

Those are three of MMO’s great strengths that can make them better than any other type of online game out there. What you are suggesting is spending significant development time on making a different kind of MMO. One which caters for those who like Diablo and the like. These markets are cornered by those existing games, competing there would be a struggle at best. And it would change the nature of MMO’s, to their detriment.

Why would we want Diablo style play in our MMO’s? We have other games for that. I am arguing once again for games with distinct gameplay, you seem to want everything to be Diabloesque.

I would not go onto the Diablo and PoE forums and argue for more MMO like play in those games. Games need to do what they do best, not have half baked elements in them just to try to appeal to every player.

The problem with putting games within MMO’s is that they detract the devs time from why we joined the game in the first place.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

4/25/13 2:57:06 AM#171
Originally posted by Sunshinee

Maybe this is the same old thread, just written differently but I know a lot of you old timers on here love to talk how certain features in a game "break your immersion".

I've in the past have been in beta's and lobbied for group finder tools if they weren't present, flying mounts, instant teleports to dungeons etc etc the tools that make the game possibly more accessible, and weren't wasting your time in general.

Now I've been playing MMO's since pre cu swg. I played WoW before all the tools were available, and I embraced all the tools I've mentioned plus alot more that had come into existence in WoW and other mmo's.

I guess where I question people is at the point where I hear the argument that these break "immersion". I get how these things can be Anti social, but let's be serious with every supposed anti social tool you guys think exist, in any real triple AAA mmo that falls on each individual itself as to whether they want to be social or not. People have a wide variety of experiences with those tools like LFG tools and found plenty of people to be social using them, and vice versa.

So when I hear Immersion breaking as an argument I'm left confused. Are these individuals pretending that they are their own actual characters they see on screen and want to be "immersed" in this feeling of being in this great giant world fighting these evil beast as this mighty conquering hero?

This is a serious question I've wondered, when I've gamed I don't do any of this imagining. Granted this whole thing might just be predicated on each indivuals playstyle.I'm mostly competitive and the type of person who likes to be on the top so I play a game to play a game. Not to feel like I myself am in this pretend virtual world. On top of that in a mmo, there is thousands of other supposed "heroes" running around killing the same mobs as you are. I just have a very hard time seeing it.

Either way I'm curious to understand this side of the argument and or if I am possibly way off base and nobody does this? Either way, thoughts?

 

Example i loved Morrowind becouse it had very limited instant travel most of the time you had to walk/run around world exploring.

Then came Oblivion with instant travel to almost every part on map if you had discovered it all same in Skyrim i still dont like it for me its immersion breaker i walk/run most in skyrim barely use instant travel.

Yes its a timesink if you have to walk everything so be it then i just dont like the rediculous instant travel.

Im very keen on immersion i only implement mods in skyrim if it improve immersion like better sounds and better graphics also if its buildings or items it have to be in line with game i never take mods that has nothing to do with skyrim or so called improved looks of characters(supermodels those disguts me aweful) so mainly the ezmode implementations i HATE breakes immersion for me.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15536

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

4/25/13 2:58:15 AM#172
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by corpusc

i don't have time to put into a "proper" message on the subject, but

 

it's a mistake to conflate role playing with immersion.  

they may be great buddies, and role playing probably would require some level of immersion to work.

but i never roleplay, and immersion is very important to me. 

i like being my real life self in another world.

I play like this too.  SWG was cool because you could pretty much just be yourself in that game and still basically be in RP mode following Star Wars lore.  Some people go full RP, and though I didn't do it much, I appreciated them.  They helped enhance my experience even more.

Agreed on that.  Half the time, the image of the character is just a feeling about my chacter in the world at the back of my mind as I am playing (and someones daydreaming about it when I am not.)  Roleplaying isn't absolutely necessary, but an immersive game almost pushes you to want to do it and certainly makes it easy to not mind if others are doing it.

One of the coolest experiences I had was when I joined a Jedi guild in SWG, and they made me come to their temple (a decked-out guild hall) for my initiation process.  They called in their lead players from all over the game (multiple planets) to assemble a counsel, ask me questions about my goals as a jedi, and why I wanted to join their guild, and then they made me fight one of their higher level members to see if I had any skill.  It was an awesome experience that took about an hour.

When I was done I took the time to thikn about what had just happened.  I had a full-on Star Wars moment that was completely created by other players.  They took the time to stop what they were doing to initiate me, and they probably loved it as much or more than I did.

THAT my friends, is one of the MANY stark differences between a game that gives you the tools to forge your own story in a deep game world, and one that stuffs someone else's story, class, etc down your throat for you.   I'll take the former any time over the latter. 

That's just one example too. During the years (yes, years) that I played SWG, I had many such experiences that were completely player created and driven.  Man do I miss having a game like that.

Heh, I still remember the guild meetings that played out like pre-battle star wars briefings my guild did in SWG, those were the days.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

4/25/13 6:00:16 AM#173
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot

You can't expect a MMO to compete with an arcade game in its niche area. Those games and MMO's will be better than a more general MMO at what they do best.

An example of such a poor design decision was the Space Flight missions in SWTOR. No way could they live up to what an arcade style space shooter has to offer. A cheap as chips Elite style trading and space flight would have been better.

Why? Because there is no Elite style trading game out there. There is no genre of games to compete against. But EA went the easy route and paid the price.

MMO's have to be built solidly in the areas they are best at. Questing, Crafting, Housing, Faction PvP, Community and the like.

Of course you can. You don't have to be the best to get some business. Look at FPSes for an example. Bioshock Infinite is probably the best, or one of the best. You don't have to beat it to make money.

Take STO. Is it better than Bioshock Infinite as a SP game? Probably not. However, it is the ONLY Star Trek based RPG out there. Why shouldn't it do some SP missions? In that segment of market, it is the best.

BTW, MMO is NOT the best in questing, pvp nor community. There are plenty of other online games that are better. Heck, how can MMO the best at pvp when there are pvp centric online games? You argument of specialization applies here too.

There is an element of what’s in the mix. MMO’s can have that unique mix that makes them stand out from other online games.

I have never played a solo rpg that had better questing than the first twenty levels of AoC, the Fellowship quests of Lotro or the Class quests of SWTOR. MMO’s are up there with the best any other game has in questing.

I have never played PvP better than DAOC. In their own way other games have great faction PvP such as PS2. But this is a different type of PvP. Indeed PS2 is essentially a stepping stone between Battlefield style PvP and MMO faction based PvP.

Again with community, MMO’s are up there with the best or are the best.

Those are three of MMO’s great strengths that can make them better than any other type of online game out there. What you are suggesting is spending significant development time on making a different kind of MMO. One which caters for those who like Diablo and the like. These markets are cornered by those existing games, competing there would be a struggle at best. And it would change the nature of MMO’s, to their detriment.

Why would we want Diablo style play in our MMO’s? We have other games for that. I am arguing once again for games with distinct gameplay, you seem to want everything to be Diabloesque.

I would not go onto the Diablo and PoE forums and argue for more MMO like play in those games. Games need to do what they do best, not have half baked elements in them just to try to appeal to every player.

The problem with putting games within MMO’s is that they detract the devs time from why we joined the game in the first place.

Exactly...and what I have been trying to get through certain people's exremely thick skulls here for quite some time. You are just going to give yourself carpel tunnel trying to do the same.

No one seems to care about genre's (Categories) anymore. Just make them all the same thing. Fast paced, reward heavily laden, I'm the hero, race to end game, heavily instanced treadmills.

I am not saying these types can't exist, but do they ALL have to be this way? Also, I am not saying they have to be exactly like the older ones, as their are plenty of issues from them that have been improved upon. But...it would be GREAT to see an MMORPG surface again that focuses on what made them different.

Community, meaningful questing (Epic chain quests), meaningful and useful crafting, world exploration, the journey and NOT the destination, and robust content.

 

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1425

4/25/13 6:17:34 AM#174
Originally posted by Consuetudo

An immersive world is one in which the feeling that a game is being played is kept to a minimum. That circumstance wherein the entire game revolves around combat, the player being a hero, bosses, and the typical mechanic, effectually distances the player from the world, and he becomes conscious that he is playing another game. On the contrary, supply him with bustling cities, amazing works of architecture, innovative quest sequences, a working economy, a dynamic crafting system, and the environment in general in which he can function of a citizen of that world, and he will very much find himself at times forgetting that he is playing a game, and so much sympathize with his character that he will ensure that the character sleeps on a bed every time he logs out. 

The immersive world is really escapism. It is the living through another, and any element in which the notion of a game retains too much significance will only function as a detraction from this immersive ability. 

As another thread states, we want worlds, in comparison to games. The single player RPG can function as a game all it likes, but when throwing together a bunch of persons in the midst of a common experience, a massive multiplayer world, as it were, then the only goal therein is the provision of such a world. Not a game. 

This is a brilliant and perceptive definition.

10 / 10.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19537

4/25/13 10:19:32 AM#175
Originally posted by Scot

I have never played a solo rpg that had better questing than the first twenty levels of AoC, the Fellowship quests of Lotro or the Class quests of SWTOR. MMO’s are up there with the best any other game has in questing.

That is just your opinion. I would say Bioshock (pick any) is better questing than any of the games you mentioned. Heck, TOR quests are just people standing around talking .. KOTOR are much better.

I have never played PvP better than DAOC. In their own way other games have great faction PvP such as PS2. But this is a different type of PvP. Indeed PS2 is essentially a stepping stone between Battlefield style PvP and MMO faction based PvP.

Once again, it is your opinion. If i want to play pvp, i would much rather play WOT.

Again with community, MMO’s are up there with the best or are the best.

Nah .. i have as good a chat in MSN as in any MMO .. heck, it is just about the people i talk to. The game is irrevelant.

Those are three of MMO’s great strengths that can make them better than any other type of online game out there. What you are suggesting is spending significant development time on making a different kind of MMO. One which caters for those who like Diablo and the like. These markets are cornered by those existing games, competing there would be a struggle at best. And it would change the nature of MMO’s, to their detriment.

Changing the nature of MMO .. may not be a bad things, given some of the ideas (like force grouping, or down-time for chatting) are proven failture in the market place.

Why would we want Diablo style play in our MMO’s? We have other games for that. I am arguing once again for games with distinct gameplay, you seem to want everything to be Diabloesque.

Who says we only want Diablo style play in MMOs? There are plenty of other options. STO type SP missions. More instanced gameplay. Pokemon battles. Put in what players like. Even try MMO FPS .. and plenty are trying.

I would not go onto the Diablo and PoE forums and argue for more MMO like play in those games. Games need to do what they do best, not have half baked elements in them just to try to appeal to every player.

Why not? If it adds to the fun? I think PoE can use a AH .. a very much MMO feature.

The problem with putting games within MMO’s is that they detract the devs time from why we joined the game in the first place.

Why do people enjoy games? That is the question you need to ask. Genre boundary is just limitations. Devs should be innvoative and consider everything fun.

 

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/25/13 12:24:28 PM#176
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

I don't have issue with convenience...but to the degree it has gone in MMORPG's, it's completely rendered them unrecognizeable. They really are just glorifed console games for the PC now.

 

Good. Some console games (like Dishonered) are more fun, to me, than 90% of MMOs.

This is called adapting to the market. They are much better games now. If they don't put in these kind of feautres, how can they compete with games like LoL, WoT and Diablo 3?

But that's what you don't seem to get. MMORPG's don't have to compete with those types of games...as they are geared toward a different market and playerbase. Unless like Blizzard....the greed factor has taken complete control rather than modest profits.

They don't have to .. but they want to. Otherwise, why do you think we are here talking? If MMORPG is not trying to get my business by putting in many of those features, do you think i would give a d*mn and post here?

Face it, many MMORPG devs would LOVE to have the FPS players, the RPG players, the casual players. You can call it greed, business sense, or whatever. If they don't make MMORPGs into better games, i wouldn't even be here.

So if you do not enjoy seeing opposite opinions from me, you can blame the MMO devs too.

BTW, Blizz is very successful in mergine the markets. Do you know how many WOW players play Diablo3?

 

 

Lets face it... Hot Dog stands, would love to have the Hamburger's business too... but unfortunately people don't buy Hamburgers, when they have a tase for a Hot Dog. (vice-versa)

 

So stop with the diatribe that every mmo has to be a "one game fits all" scenario.  Those exists to day and are doing succeful enough. We here are talking about a further niche of less than 3 million, or so.. whome enjoy and want to play MMORPGs.

 

[mod edit]

 

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  revslave

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 152

Welcome Home

4/25/13 1:02:46 PM#177

Hello

Immersion is how connected you feel to a particular game, character or storyline.  Reasons for sighting what is immersion breaking will be as varied as the individuals who are sighting them.   What is more important however is that at some level we understand that what is immersion breaking for you may not be the same for me.   

I used to be surprised when people complained about fast travel, when the option of walking was available, or Dungeon finders when the MMO provided the player with tools to create a guild, and find like-minded people who did not enjoy the service. But now I tend not to listen, people will focus on what is important to them, and how they perceive a game to be played, with an expectation that other should be required to as well.

I remember the forum discussions on appearance armor in EQ2, and if certain class would be able to wear specific armor. For some people this was very important, however the fact that a plate wear could swim as well as a cloth wearer was not.

Welcome Home

Rev.

  Sunshinee

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 12

 
OP  5/04/13 4:44:51 AM#178
Originally posted by Kuinn

WoW is a great example game in this topic since it has lived a long life so far and a lot of changes happened in it. The simple truth is that WoW had tons of human interaction in it's original version, and these days it has basically none at all. That's why I have a problem with all these accesibility tools.

 

Though they are not the only reason for this. Dungeon finder alone does not do this, the real bad guy here is cross-realm tech and dumbed down difficulty. You enter dungeon with complete strangers, you propably wont meet them again, there's no reason to talk to them since you basically cant utilize them later or become friends with them like before cross-realms stuff.

 

Then the difficulty, when you just AoE everything in seconds, there's not much reason to talk about tactics at least. So there's basically 5 persons playing this content in singleplayer together.

 

Though the dungeon tool adds to all this too, it's so easy to just "pop-in" that if anything goes wrong in the dungeon, people again say nothing and just leaves, and then que again when the cooldown is off. We actually had reputations back then, and server communities where people knew each others more or less, and knew that they will meet again.

 

Back in the day, when we had to put group together, or perhaps more because we had to run to the dungeon, people were willing to work together better since they had to make that trip. Now they dont have to make that trip and can just pop-in and pop-out without moving an inch.

 

I'm curious for the OP though, if you dont care about immersion at all and are there just for the gameplay alone, does it not matter at all an in the slightest what the setting or story is then? I dont understand (I'm not saying this in a negative way) how people can completely separate them from these worlds created for us and just focus on the mechanical side of the game, is it like in Matrix seeing the code pouring down before your eyes being able to ignore the rest of the world? Hehe :)

Thanks for everyone who posted in this thread, I read every single comment, even the mean ones torward me lol No I was not trolling, and I will answer your question above.

Actually no the story doesn't matter to me at all because everyone else in the world is experiencing the same story at the same I'm doing the same thing. I can somewhat get onboard with a story in a single player RPG game, but my question is about MMO's because for me I DON'T GET IT.  The closest thing was swtor because it did make an emphasis on story, but even that I quit at level 15.

Basically I guess we have all have different views, but what I've come away from in this thread is at least somewhat better understanding of people who make their arguments of not wanting certain features in a game due to "breaking immerson". Though I probably won't agree with :D

 

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

5/04/13 5:01:48 AM#179
To me, it's less what tools are used and more how they are implemented. One big difference in the age of EQ is that each game tended to have it's own way of doing everything, and the mechanics used were tied into the game lore. Now, it's just assumed that every game is going to have the same checklist of mechanics and tools if it wants to be successful, and the uniqueness of the actual lore/world/races/classes/etc. of the individual games gets lost in the overall noise of the genre as a whole. This isn't to say that having the advanced tools such as teleporting and lfd functions are bad, but too often they simply get tacked on as an afterthought or just one more check on the list without thinking about they will actually interact with the world, and when that is blatantly obvious to the player, it's very hard for me at least to really get interested or feel like I'm somehow a part of this fantasy world. I think we're starting to see more experimentation again in how to implement these things, and which ones to try to implement in the first place, so that the worlds don't seem so cookie cutter-ish and that is a good thing in my mind; not every mechanic, or implementation of a mechanic, will work for everybody, but everybody should be able to find their perfect balance of mechanics and rp somewhere rather than having to deal with the "but WOW did it this way" mentality that has filled the majority of the MMO market the last decade.
  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

5/04/13 2:09:21 PM#180
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

Example i loved Morrowind becouse it had very limited instant travel most of the time you had to walk/run around world exploring.

Then came Oblivion with instant travel to almost every part on map if you had discovered it all same in Skyrim i still dont like it for me its immersion breaker i walk/run most in skyrim barely use instant travel.

This is a good example of how I think the implementation is as important as the mechanic chosen. The idea behind fast travel is not bad; it is useful at times and for certain tasks, like moving stuff between my houses. The fact that you don't have to use it at all if you don't want to, along the fact that you have to find the places before you can fast travel to them, and the fact that time still passes as if you had walked all make the system very usable to me in Skyrim. It still requires exploration, both to get places marked on the map and to get to places not marked on the map, but makes hauling large amounts of stuff  between your homes possible and significantly less time consuming for the player. serving the same function as the teleport spell in Morrowind. It can be abused and some people will use it to avoid exploration and travel as much as possible, taking a major component out of the game, but there is a big difference between the devs putting that option in and the devs making that option all but required to use, and in Skyrim, at least, they have avoided the latter very well.

Transportation and teleport systems in general seem to be one of the biggest problems when it comes to this matter of immersion. You have to force people to actually be a part of the world, but just like in the real world, people will have plenty of reasons to develop faster travel methods than walking, so it's a balancing act of how you implement those methods so that they are not required and enhance the world rather than becoming a way to largely ignore the world.

11 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Search