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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Which Payment Model Do You Prefer In Your MMORPG?

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139 posts found
  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 299

4/23/13 7:46:07 PM#121
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Subscription is a dieing revenue model and its been shown time and time again over the last 5 or 6 years that it is a barrier to entry, retards growth, and makes far less money for the game then any of the other models.

Have any hard data to back that up? Seriously. I want to see the data. And how do FtP games last over a time span of say, 8 years?

  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 299

4/23/13 7:51:24 PM#122

MMOs are a service like cable or phone. When you subscribe you are invested in the game and as such you get to have certain expectations of the game being maintained and available. Likewise companies can expect a certain income a month so they can better plan for the future.

FtPs are like hanging around a Starbucks using their WiFi and occasionally buying a small coffee so they can't ask you to leave then saying you add value to the place by providing paying customers someone to talk to if they feel like it.

  Horusra

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2161

4/23/13 7:53:38 PM#123
Originally posted by Alverant

MMOs are a service like cable or phone. When you subscribe you are invested in the game and as such you get to have certain expectations of the game being maintained and available. Likewise companies can expect a certain income a month so they can better plan for the future.

FtPs are like hanging around a Starbucks using their WiFi and occasionally buying a small coffee so they can't ask you to leave then saying you add value to the place by providing paying customers someone to talk to if they feel like it.

And like cable service most people have one.  That limits the market and chokes off competitors because you have to lure people away from existing service and small service providers die off that would provide a nitche.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4759

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/23/13 8:02:47 PM#124
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Subscription is a dieing revenue model and its been shown time and time again over the last 5 or 6 years that it is a barrier to entry, retards growth, and makes far less money for the game then any of the other models.

Have any hard data to back that up? Seriously. I want to see the data. And how do FtP games last over a time span of say, 8 years?

F2p games have been around since the very beginning of MMO's and before MMORPG.  If the game is fun, they last just fine.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

4/23/13 8:09:57 PM#125
Originally posted by Loktofeit
O

You're missing the bigger picture there. 

 

- How many stick around for more than a few hours before deciding they don't like the game and leave? Just because they're "checking it out" doesn't mean they're "staying".

It's not the number that leave that matter, it's the ones that stay, many of which were able to try and play for as long as they need to decide they want to spend money on the game. 

- How many of those who do stick around, do so without ever spending a dime?

The ones paying have more people to play with, so the non-paying players serve an important function. They expand the pool of people to group with, socialize with and play against. 

Your third point seemed like just a rewording of the second.

 

Free to play games don't suffer free free players - they bank on them being there because they are a crucial part of the business model. 

 

Oh no, I understand that perfectly; the idea of "players as content". That aspect of it just isn't relevant to the point I was making or responding to in my post. I never said the "free free players" had no purpose." They absolutely do.

My point was to argue the idea that when marketing/PR talks about their game having "millions of accounts", with the intent of making the game seem like a huge success, they're not giving the whole story. They're playing with numbers in an "accurate" but misleading way.

Considering every account ever created for a F2P MMO is an "active account" - even if the owner hasn't played it in months - the number becomes meaningless to brag about, and dubious to use as an indication of the game's popularity.

It would be like me bragging that  have an entire wall of my garage stacked up with 12-pack soda cases. Sounds real impressive, 'til you realize they're all empty cans.

Hence, my point in saying that if you're talking about how wildly successful the MMO is, then you have to take into consideration how many stick around beyond "testing it out", and how many of those go on to become paying players. I've never seen the actual numbers (because F2P companies never release them publicly - that I've been able to find anyway), but I would feel very safe betting the number of actively played accounts is nowhere near "several million", and of those, the "paying" players are far fewer.

The most accurate depiction a F2P MMO's PR could give of their game is to say "we have X members actively playing the game (according to some specific criteria, like login frequency), and Y percent of those use the cash shop on a regular basis". I have yet to see a F2P MMO's population described in that manner. In every case I've seen, they talk about "active accounts".

I will add, though, that even having other players around "as content" only goes so far. Every F2P MMO I've tried has had lots of people running around. It didn't make the game more enjoyable for me, and even with the one I got the farthest in (level 30-ish in Perfect World, a few years back), I never saw the same people running around for very long. I'd meet people, talk to them, and put them on my friends list. I'd see them a few times, and then they'd never log in again. Now that may be anecdotal, and "only my experience", but I hardly believe it's unique to me.

 

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3265

Poacher killer.

4/23/13 8:11:09 PM#126
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Subscription is a dieing revenue model and its been shown time and time again over the last 5 or 6 years that it is a barrier to entry, retards growth, and makes far less money for the game then any of the other models.

Have any hard data to back that up? Seriously. I want to see the data. And how do FtP games last over a time span of say, 8 years?

F2p games have been around since the very beginning of MMO's and before MMORPG.  If the game is fun, they last just fine.

Furcadia, Maplestory etc. Woooooohooooo!

Awesome games for the little ones, but for us here? Who cares.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4759

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/23/13 8:13:44 PM#127
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Subscription is a dieing revenue model and its been shown time and time again over the last 5 or 6 years that it is a barrier to entry, retards growth, and makes far less money for the game then any of the other models.

Have any hard data to back that up? Seriously. I want to see the data. And how do FtP games last over a time span of say, 8 years?

F2p games have been around since the very beginning of MMO's and before MMORPG.  If the game is fun, they last just fine.

Furcadia, Maplestory etc. Woooooohooooo!

Awesome games for the little ones, but for us here? Who cares.

I agree, not my cup of tea but they do show that f2p has just as much longevity as a p2p and reinforce the point that it's the fun of the game not the payment model that will determine success.

If it's fun and appeals to your audience it will stick around and make money. If not, it eventually goes away.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3085

I am more than some of my parts

4/23/13 8:19:36 PM#128
my favorite payment model is to forget my wallet and have to do dishes, but that no longer works at any restaraunts either.   : /

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Alverant

Elite Member

Joined: 3/12/07
Posts: 299

4/23/13 9:13:09 PM#129
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Subscription is a dieing revenue model and its been shown time and time again over the last 5 or 6 years that it is a barrier to entry, retards growth, and makes far less money for the game then any of the other models.

Have any hard data to back that up? Seriously. I want to see the data. And how do FtP games last over a time span of say, 8 years?

F2p games have been around since the very beginning of MMO's and before MMORPG.  If the game is fun, they last just fine.

But there's no commitment. It means the consumer can try it for a while then leave when it gets bored. What happened to the idea of sticking it out through thick and thin? Where's the fandom? Companies will shift towards making a lot of money right away before the fickle attention of the players go elsewhere.

How many big ftp games have lasted longer than 5 years?

ETA the examples described are small scale games. Can a ftp game be as extensive as some of the sub models and last as long?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19446

4/23/13 10:11:10 PM#130
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by p0nk1n
sub no cash shops. everyone pays the same and no one gains an unfair advantage with money.

 

Exactly. 65% of us chose Sub with no cash shop; everyone else is spread out amongst the other choices. Clear winner. And this is considering those F2P lovers probably have multiple MMORPG accounts.

Only because MMORPG is not representative. In the US, F2P players outnumber P2P 6 to 1.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

 

but according to the 90/9/1 rule, or 89/10/1 or w/e...the number of CONSUMERS is 0.6 to 1 for F2P vs P2P. or 3 to 5.

 

P2P remains ominant in terms of business model as the 90% of free players don't engage in any form of business.

Free players are content for the paid  players. Without them, there will be fewer paid players, and may be they don't pay as much because there are fewer people to impress with their $10 magic sword.

 

okay. I agree. but then you must agree with my .6 to 1 since you confirmed those 90% serve as content not as consumers.

Yeah .. i agreed. I play lots of F2P games .. and i don't engage in any form of business. You are right on.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1345

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/24/13 4:13:21 PM#131


Originally posted by Theocritus
I jsut dont get the love  here for the p2p model...I spent over 1k on EQ from 2000-05 and have nothing to show for it......I would take any f2p over any p2p any day because you save so much more money.....And what p2p is so great that you guys are so enamored with this model?. WoW? Eve? Theres a reason why this model is dying and that's because its a total ripoff.


If you are the type of player to spend $1k on EQ, you would probably have spent $5k if it employed a robuest "F2P" model. Be thankful your spending was limited to $15 a month.

P L A N E T S I D E 1 is up !! check PS1 forum for link to current installer.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Kuviski

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 172

4/24/13 6:39:27 PM#132

Subscription, definitely. It tells me that the game was created for long-term profit and hence it will likely focus on content that lasts longer than mere months.

When I start a new MMORPG, I always begin with the thought of playing the game for years on forward. F2P and B2P don't tend to support such longetivity.

Edit: Also wanted to say, I don't really think about the pricing of games when I start playing them. Games eat up such a little portion of my budget anyway. Knowing what the payment model of a game is is important to me only because of its implications to gameplay.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3564

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/24/13 6:44:53 PM#133
I really do not care what business model a game uses.  What I look for is an entertaining game.
  Precusor

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 4694

Aim Bot

4/24/13 6:50:31 PM#134
Sub with no cash shop.
  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2635

4/24/13 6:51:18 PM#135

Sub, no cash shop, I like to know what I am spending, and not feel like someone is trying to get into my wallet everytime I log in.  I also think community clean up can be more effectively done in a sub game, even though no one does a stellar job on it usually.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19446

4/25/13 10:22:03 AM#136
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Theocritus
I jsut dont get the love  here for the p2p model...I spent over 1k on EQ from 2000-05 and have nothing to show for it......I would take any f2p over any p2p any day because you save so much more money.....And what p2p is so great that you guys are so enamored with this model?. WoW? Eve? Theres a reason why this model is dying and that's because its a total ripoff.

 


If you are the type of player to spend $1k on EQ, you would probably have spent $5k if it employed a robuest "F2P" model. Be thankful your spending was limited to $15 a month.

And i spend nothing .. so i am thankful others can spend $5k on robust F2P games and subsidize my gaming.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4759

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/25/13 10:53:27 AM#137
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Alverant
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

Subscription is a dieing revenue model and its been shown time and time again over the last 5 or 6 years that it is a barrier to entry, retards growth, and makes far less money for the game then any of the other models.

Have any hard data to back that up? Seriously. I want to see the data. And how do FtP games last over a time span of say, 8 years?

F2p games have been around since the very beginning of MMO's and before MMORPG.  If the game is fun, they last just fine.

But there's no commitment. It means the consumer can try it for a while then leave when it gets bored. What happened to the idea of sticking it out through thick and thin? Where's the fandom? Companies will shift towards making a lot of money right away before the fickle attention of the players go elsewhere.

How many big ftp games have lasted longer than 5 years?

ETA the examples described are small scale games. Can a ftp game be as extensive as some of the sub models and last as long?

I"m sure there are many f2p games that have lasted longer than 5 years, someone else can look them up. 

Commitment - most people may not be committed to them.  However I would venture that most people are not committed to p2p either.  There is likely just as much fandom for the game whether it is f2p or p2p, fandom is ruled by the fun of the game, not the payment model.  Sticking it through thick and thin?  Most won't do it.  As soon as they are bored of the game they will leave, p2p or f2p will not change that.  They are in it for entertainment only, once that stops they are done.

Some of the recent f2p games are producing content faster than some p2p games. 

f2p has nothing to do with longevity.  It has nothing to do with a game being a success.  A good f2p will be around a long time and make money.  A bad f2p will eventually die.  No difference from f2p.

 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2510

4/25/13 11:01:00 AM#138
Originally posted by Tokenaru
Title says it all.

You're missing the games with subs+B2P+Cash shop. Yes, that's right companies that develope games like LOTR, EQ2, and Age of Conan have features within the game that require you to buy the expansion, pay a subscription, and or use the cash shop.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19446

4/25/13 11:09:20 AM#139
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

I"m sure there are many f2p games that have lasted longer than 5 years, someone else can look them up. 

Maple Story?


 

 

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