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48 posts found
  IrishChai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 506

4/23/13 9:32:17 PM#21

I think Guild Wars 2 is my favorite mmorpg so far but I think we've all played a handful of great ones. There is a lot I don't like about the genre even out of it's best representations, but I don't know why some people think it's about a developer putting together all the perfect parts to make The One Game. GW2 might be the one I go back to most lately when I am in the mood for an MMO but that's not because I had a list of everything I wanted and I got it. I think some of the best games right now are not MMOs. Actually, let me put that a different way. I'm having the most fun with games that are not MMOs right now. It doesn't feel like the options available are bad so much as the games I enjoy most are different games.

 

There are so many game genres and so many forms of entertainment outside of games to enjoy, and definitely not enough time to enjoy all of it even if it occupied 100% of your time. I think there comes a point when a particular genre or form of entertainment has SO many options that if you're not having fun with any of them, it's time to pick a different genre or hobby. The worst 'carrot-on-a-stick' MMOs get a lot of flack sometimes, yet that's exactly what some of you are doing to yourselves trying every mmorpg and piecing together the 'best-of' acting like there's perfection out there if someone would just do it right or if you would just explain it right for the right people to make it.

 

I suggest accepting one of the thousand options we have or accepting that you're not finding the genre to be fun. I don't see anyone talking about "what 'video game' are you looking for?" outside of mmo conversations. Maybe you think 'what video game do I want to play at the moment?' but that should be like a 5-second conversation with yourself. Forum topics are usually "was this one game fun or not?". You buy a game and you either like it or not, then move on to another game.

 

Mmorpgs fans can start to sound like they are either the spoiled child with a thousand toys not happy with any of them, or like they need their 'perfect' mmorpg to complete their life. It's my advice to just stop looking for "The MMO" for you if you honestly look at the list of a thousand MMOs listed here and can't find a single one you enjoy when you want to play an MMO. You might get forever stuck in the search for something that doesn't exist, that you think you will love because you haven't played it yet, when I think the problem lies in you if you can't enjoy anything that does exist (all alternate games and hobbies included). No offense intended. I'm not saying this all to criticize the type of person you are so much as suggesting your way of going about finding entertainment might be self-defeating if you keep wanting something that you can't find.

 

TL;DR ~ Just seems to me some of you guys are trying to piece together different things you enjoy in order to describe the holy grail of entertainment. That is not going to be one mmorpg, and why would it need to be? Just enjoy all the options we have, even if it's in different genres or hobbies.

  IrishChai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 506

4/23/13 9:54:12 PM#22
I also hope MMO developers venture forward to just create another fun game instead of working so hard to create something that hasn't been done before. Entertainment has been done before. Try and pave your own path and I think you're straying from all the things that have already proven to be entertaining to everyone, and it's clear when a developer does this. They end up creating something that hasn't been done before because it was always a bad idea or a bad combination of good ideas, and it turns out horrible. I think there's a lot of horrible mmos because of this 'it just hasn't been done right' mentality, regurgitating bad ideas or things that don't work no matter how they are done.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19124

4/23/13 10:07:49 PM#23
Originally posted by Sulaa 

It's simply became one of few fundamental mmorpg features for me.  I simply won't play an mmorpg with cash shop, gold selling ,rmah, etc even if it will be good enough in it's all other features. Same with developers adding microtransactions later. I already tried to cope with it when my long-term mmoprg went freemium and this was a huge mistake. Mistake I won't make again. I am done with compromise in this matter in mmorpg sphere, even if that means I will never play an mmoprg again.

 

I agree. There is no need for any compromise. We are only talking about entertainment products. No need to spend a single dime, nor a single minute on stuff we don't like.

Hence, i won't play a sub game again. F2P all the way. And they better have good instances, and LFD/LFR, and social features. No compromises.

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

4/24/13 3:07:56 AM#24

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Sulaa  It's simply became one of few fundamental mmorpg features for me.  I simply won't play an mmorpg with cash shop, gold selling ,rmah, etc even if it will be good enough in it's all other features. Same with developers adding microtransactions later. I already tried to cope with it when my long-term mmoprg went freemium and this was a huge mistake. Mistake I won't make again. I am done with compromise in this matter in mmorpg sphere, even if that means I will never play an mmoprg again.  
I agree. There is no need for any compromise. We are only talking about entertaiment products. No need to spend a single dime, nor a single minute on stuff we don't like. Hence, i won't play a sub game again. F2P all the way. And they better have good instances, and LFD/LFR, and social features. No compromises.
Yup I agree too. People sometimes say "It's only a game".   Exactly it's only a game, an entertaiment and that's precisely why noone have to or should do go on compromises, at least not on compromises he / she cannot accept.

Hence I won't play mmoprg with microtransactions (including rmah and similar) again. Better it does not have automatized matchmaking systems, apart of good instances have also have strong open world and non-combat activities and build their gameplay with 'each server is separate  virtual world and society' concept in mind.

  asdar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/05
Posts: 590

4/24/13 4:36:31 AM#25

I want Darkfall, but with a developer that gets all those small details correct.

I also want a Darkfall clone, but pure PvE. Lots of PvE with mobs so hard you can't possibly kill them.

Then add in EQ like dungeons. I just haven't experienced dungeons like that since EQ. Some of that for me was the fear of death that is lacking in modern games.

What I like about Darkfall so much:
1. Open world
2. No glowing icons or beacons
3. boats - best boats in any game in my opinion
4. Skill based - (but I do think they should break the skill/stat chain and just end it at max level of skills.
5. Mounted travel and bind point.
6. Trade required, no auction
7. Climb anything, no closed in canyons that funnel you to the next appropriate area.

Asdar

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19124

4/24/13 10:58:15 AM#26
Originally posted by Sulaa

Yup I agree too. People sometimes say "It's only a game".   Exactly it's only a game, an entertaiment and that's precisely why noone have to or should do go on compromises, at least not on compromises he / she cannot accept.

 

Plus, there is so much entertainment out there, there is zero reason to waste even a minute on anything that is not fun.

Good time to be a consumer.

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

4/24/13 12:32:58 PM#27
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

Yup I agree too. People sometimes say "It's only a game".   Exactly it's only a game, an entertaiment and that's precisely why noone have to or should do go on compromises, at least not on compromises he / she cannot accept.

 

Plus, there is so much entertainment out there, there is zero reason to waste even a minute on anything that is not fun.

Good time to be a consumer.

Overally in video games department that is true,  althrough there are still certain niches that are not filled, so some specifc tastes may not be 'fed' by industry.   Still that is preety normal situation - it's not rare that niche expectations have to 'wait' to be catered for.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19124

4/24/13 12:47:39 PM#28
Originally posted by Sulaa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

Yup I agree too. People sometimes say "It's only a game".   Exactly it's only a game, an entertaiment and that's precisely why noone have to or should do go on compromises, at least not on compromises he / she cannot accept.

 

Plus, there is so much entertainment out there, there is zero reason to waste even a minute on anything that is not fun.

Good time to be a consumer.

Overally in video games department that is true,  althrough there are still certain niches that are not filled, so some specifc tastes may not be 'fed' by industry.   Still that is preety normal situation - it's not rare that niche expectations have to 'wait' to be catered for.

And i am not even only talking about video games. Few players will play nothing but a single niche .. i certainly don't play just one kind of games, nor only play games. Hence it is really not that important to fill all niche.

Let me put it this way .. even if there is no more MMO by tomorrow, there won't be a lack of entertainment for me. Even if you discount Sp games, there are so many good tv shows (Game of Thrones, Arrow, Dexter, ...) and so many good anime (Attack of Titan, Gargantia, ....), and so many good novels, that i will have enough entertainment.

I highly doubt most here will only play some niche MMO but not other games.

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

4/24/13 1:03:09 PM#29
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

Yup I agree too. People sometimes say "It's only a game".   Exactly it's only a game, an entertaiment and that's precisely why noone have to or should do go on compromises, at least not on compromises he / she cannot accept.

 

Plus, there is so much entertainment out there, there is zero reason to waste even a minute on anything that is not fun.

Good time to be a consumer.

Overally in video games department that is true,  althrough there are still certain niches that are not filled, so some specifc tastes may not be 'fed' by industry.   Still that is preety normal situation - it's not rare that niche expectations have to 'wait' to be catered for.

And i am not even only talking about video games. Few players will play nothing but a single niche .. i certainly don't play just one kind of games, nor only play games. Hence it is really not that important to fill all niche.

Let me put it this way .. even if there is no more MMO by tomorrow, there won't be a lack of entertainment for me. Even if you discount Sp games, there are so many good tv shows (Game of Thrones, Arrow, Dexter, ...) and so many good anime (Attack of Titan, Gargantia, ....), and so many good novels, that i will have enough entertainment.

I highly doubt most here will only play some niche MMO but not other games.

Of couse. That was never the case though.  Even 8 or 15 years ago there was insane amount of entertaiment.  There was many games on diffrent platorms.  Many platforms, many games and many genres is not recent thing.   Of course now there is even more, but even in 90's and 00's there was very big amount of games.

Same thing with other entertaiment. There was dozens of tv channels as well, cinemas and VHS (and later DVD) market is huge for more than few years.   Same with other forms of entertaiment - 10 or 20 years ago there was no shortage of entertaiment as well.  Thousands of books, hundreads of tv shows, many anime, lot of real life clubs, restaurants, entertaiment centers and so on.  It's nothing new really.

Most people never played only MMOs even in times when only representant of MMOs were very niche MMORPGs.

I did play mainstream Mmorpg's in my life and I did play niche Mmorpg's in my life and even when I was playing niche mmorpg's - it was never only game I played.

So I don't have shortage of entertaiment, generally speaking.  There is more entertaiment I can process to be honest.  Still I would cut back on some of my current froms of entertaiment if there would be product released that would fill some of my more niche hmm cravings.  Because I want this niche filled more than my other niches that are already filled,

Nothing new. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19124

4/24/13 1:14:28 PM#30
Originally posted by Sulaa

So I don't have shortage of entertaiment, generally speaking.  There is more entertaiment I can process to be honest.  Still I would cut back on some of my current froms of entertaiment if there would be product released that would fill some of my more niche hmm cravings.  Because I want this niche filled more than my other niches that are already filled,

Nothing new. 

But if you listen to the rant here .. some don't seem to know that. Some sounds like they are moaning and bitching in their basement all day because the market does not make their specific kind of MMOs.

They can solve their problem simply by something something else that is fun.

Plus, you logic is flawed. If you have so much entertainment that you like, why do you even care if a particular niche is filled? Just play something else if it is not. There is no lack of quality, fun, variety, and any of the core ingredience of entertainment.

 

  kamiyadori

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 16

4/24/13 1:24:09 PM#31
Originally posted by Sulaa
Originally posted by jalexbrown
Originally posted by Sulaa

P2P with no microtransactions at all. 

1. Relatively well funded.  Swtor / GW2 budget not needed, but cannot be few million indie project like MO,DFO.Xsylon.

2. Mainly PVE. Limited PVP possible, but not necessary.

3. Open world - one world, no cross-server, no zoning and no zone cloning.

4. Instanced dungeons ok, but cannot be only or crushingly dominating focus.

5. No automatic & teleporting LFG tool. Manual LFG tisting tool possible.

6. No add-ons, no macroing, no dps and other meters.

7. Western rather serious style. No WoW/GW2 sillysness, pop-culture or modern easter eggs/references. No asian kawaii stuff.  Eventual funny or relaxing things have to draw from in-game lore and be tamed. Think Game of Thrones style of handling fantasy.

8. Combat - either tab combat with existence of pro-active classes like Lotro's Warden or Rune-Keeper OR some new kind of combat system that uses enviromental physics - you can slip on ice, get tired  in snow, rain douse fire and make you move slower, etc

9. Interesting ccrafting + decay system + player shops without or with limited only AH.

10. No hand-holding = no quest gps, no pop-ups, no omnipotent item highlighting and map markers telling you what to do.

11. Fast exploit fixing, stern approach to cheating, generally banning cheaters, gold seller and gold buyers.

12. No microtransaction of any kind. ANY.

13. Focused on getting medium sized playerbase / niche.   Cannot be one trying to appeal to middle mainstream population and trying to get fat millions rivaling WoW, GW2 or  other popular onine games like CoD / LoL/ Diablo 3.

14. Challanging.  No mind-numbing face-rolling to get 5000 tokens or game world polluted with fields of mobs standing next to each other in every single space.  Adventure, challange, danger and game world that make more sense.

I wouldn't hold my breath on the microtransactions part, because developers want to make money.  Their goal isn't to entertain you; that's just means to an end.  Microtransactions are everywhere now, in pretty much every genre and just about every game.  Would you honestly expect someone in the industry to say, "Nah, we don't really want all that money"?

Yes. They're for money and it's business. I never said otherwise.  I don't have to buy their product if I don't like it though. I am not here to pay for whatver industry produce either.   In exchange for game design I would like and no microtransactions at all present in game at the same time - I am willing to pay higher than current 15$ industry  standard subsciption.  

It's simply became one of few fundamental mmorpg features for me.  I simply won't play an mmorpg with cash shop, gold selling ,rmah, etc even if it will be good enough in it's all other features. Same with developers adding microtransactions later. I already tried to cope with it when my long-term mmoprg went freemium and this was a huge mistake. Mistake I won't make again. I am done with compromise in this matter in mmorpg sphere, even if that means I will never play an mmoprg again.

 

Those that fail to adapt to change will sureley go extinct. The Market is changing and more and more players are liking microtransactions over Subscription fees. Look at GW2 with B2P and then a cash shop. Or Tera with Cash shop and then a Sub with a few nice perks. It is only a matter of time before strictly Sub based games die out. And the players that refuse to accept it, will no longer be enjoying MMORPGs anymore either. 

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

4/24/13 1:36:02 PM#32
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

So I don't have shortage of entertaiment, generally speaking.  There is more entertaiment I can process to be honest.  Still I would cut back on some of my current froms of entertaiment if there would be product released that would fill some of my more niche hmm cravings.  Because I want this niche filled more than my other niches that are already filled,

Nothing new. 

But if you listen to the rant here .. some don't seem to know that. Some sounds like they are moaning and bitching in their basement all day because the market does not make their specific kind of MMOs.

They can solve their problem simply by something something else that is fun.

Plus, you logic is flawed. If you have so much entertainment that you like, why do you even care if a particular niche is filled? Just play something else if it is not. There is no lack of quality, fun, variety, and any of the core ingredience of entertainment.

 

Just because I can eat hundread tastes of icecream, eat cuisine from 50 countries and drink endless types of beer - it does not mean I may still not crave for certain kind of meat.   Some types of entertaiment experience are unique and cannot be replaced by other kind of entertaiment even if that other type of entertaiment is also fun. 

  geel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/04
Posts: 90

4/24/13 1:41:21 PM#33
Those that fail to adapt to change will sureley go extinct. The Market is changing and more and more players are liking microtransactions over Subscription fees. Look at GW2 with B2P and then a cash shop. Or Tera with Cash shop and then a Sub with a few nice perks. It is only a matter of time before strictly Sub based games die out. And the players that refuse to accept it, will no longer be enjoying MMORPGs anymore either. 

This doesn't sound right to me. The market isn't changing, there are just different styles. Like GW2 knows it will have a huge initial sale because of the alluring b2p combined with an awesome 'one time' playthrough that will attract even ppl who play it like a single player game. Then because so many ppl will buy it, it can afford to have a cash shop. One that doesn't even help that much, it's all just cosmetics basically. But out of so many idiots many are bound to spend at least some money on it.

Now go to darkfall. A niche game that speaks to certain players. They won't expect nearly as many ppl to buy this. And so to keep this smaller  but most likely more commited group profitable, they need a subscription based model. 

I know nothing about it but this it how it seems to me.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19124

4/24/13 1:56:29 PM#34
Originally posted by kamiyadori
 

Those that fail to adapt to change will sureley go extinct. The Market is changing and more and more players are liking microtransactions over Subscription fees. Look at GW2 with B2P and then a cash shop. Or Tera with Cash shop and then a Sub with a few nice perks. It is only a matter of time before strictly Sub based games die out. And the players that refuse to accept it, will no longer be enjoying MMORPGs anymore either. 

Yeah .. they should start looking for other entertainment, which is plenty.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 1:59:39 PM#35
Something with zero instances and either an eve or a daoc pvp setup.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19124

4/24/13 2:03:55 PM#36
Originally posted by Sulaa
 

Just because I can eat hundread tastes of icecream, eat cuisine from 50 countries and drink endless types of beer - it does not mean I may still not crave for certain kind of meat.   Some types of entertaiment experience are unique and cannot be replaced by other kind of entertaiment even if that other type of entertaiment is also fun. 

Of course it can. An hour watching Game of Thrones is an hour i cannot play video games. That is what "replacement" mean.

Foie Gras was just outlawed in CA, you don't see me bitch &  moan for hours because i like it. I will just going to order cavier, or wagyu beef instead.

If there are so many good options, it simply is not worth headache bitch and moan about the ones i don't have.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1338

4/24/13 2:08:24 PM#37

I would want a hybrid SWG/WoW.

A skill based game. No levels or classes.

A game that offers questing but since there is no levels or classes you would not get XP for doing anything other than the actual killing of mobs. There would be no quest rewards other than low level mats or gold.

An open world game. I dont mind instanced dungeons.

A game that does not focus on gear as the main form of progression.

A game where mobs do not drop gear or weapons. Instead they drop mats to make gear or weapons.

Item decay.

Player run economy where everything in the game is crafted.

Crafting as its own profession not as something that was tacked on just for the sake of having it.

A game that has more than just ground combat. Like SWG did with Jump to Lightspeed.

P2P payment model.

Housing, Player made and run cities.

Large scale open world PvP that actually means something.

LFG tool.

Combat could be tab target on the ground. In space I want more of a sim experience.

Mobs that herd and roam.

 

 

  maji

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/15/04
Posts: 1856

4/24/13 2:18:19 PM#38
For a start:
 
  • crafting system from Fallen Earth
  • open world and single realm system from Fallen Earth
  • action combat from Tera
  • quest system from GW2
  • characer creation from APB (with more fantastic races of course)
  • focus on PvE
  • a dynamic weather system that really looks different (not just a few rain drops = rain, or the night is slightly blueish, but actually harsh differences)
  • terrain and landscape that is not, like in 99.9% of all mmorpgs, like fixed concrete, completly indestructible and unchangeable, but that stuff has impact on. Like if a huge explosion takes place (maybe from a meteor some players conjured), that it will cause an actually persistent crater
  • talents / traits that actually mean something. I'm so sick of spending talent points that give me +0.01% health, or make me move 0.2% faster. Give me choices that actually matter!
  • a character creation system, where you can spend points on advantages or gain points by picking disadvantages (like have your character become one-eyed to gain points to spend somewhere else, or fight better/worse under certain seasons, times or weather conditions, have one-legged characters or characters that sometimes get random diseases or just anything that makes your character interesting)
  • a crafting system, where the actual player skill matters (like involving some sort of mini games, that have an impact on the outcome of the crafting process)
  • open world housing (each player could claim somewhere some property, which is then untouchable by other players, but which also falls apart if the player doesn't care for it, and some day crumbles apart that much, that other players can claim that area)
  • seasons and weather that change the landscape (ie snow that stays on the ground and, if high enough, slows down players movement speed, unless they got the right equipment (such as ski or snow shoes)
  • a character creation system that lets you create ugly characters. Ugly not in so far as the models are badly designed, but rather that you could, for example, create a bold fat guy, or an old witch
  • character aging, where different ages give different bonus abilities or disadvantages (if your character dies of age, a new character you create gains access to new abilities and stuff, as a compensation)
  • a system where players can form families
  • more realism. Give each item certain properties (such as the material they're made of). Fighting a fire elemental with a wooden sword might have the sword burn up, for example (unless it's treated or enchanted in certain ways), fur armor might burn more easily, while skimpy robes might give you penalties in cold weather. Also add hunger and thirst and stuff
  • have the adventures of your character change the characters look over time. A character might get a permanent scar from a dragon for example. Or a disfigured skin from some deadly disease from some death god or whatnot.
  • have the adventures of your character sometimes impact the abilities of the character permanently. Die a dozen times in fire, and your character becomes scared of fire, and gets debuffs near it
  • allow players to build ships, or even balloons and stuff, but have them require a lot of work and materials (and the risk of crashing / sinking or whatnot)
  • allow players to combine their skills for more powerful versions. Like maybe 10 necromancers could initiate a ritual if working together
  • have fast travel only in expensive / risky / rare cases. The more fast travel exists in a game, the fewer people you meet in the world, the less interaction there is, and the emptier the world seems

Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

4/24/13 2:25:06 PM#39
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa
 

Just because I can eat hundread tastes of icecream, eat cuisine from 50 countries and drink endless types of beer - it does not mean I may still not crave for certain kind of meat.   Some types of entertaiment experience are unique and cannot be replaced by other kind of entertaiment even if that other type of entertaiment is also fun. 

Of course it can. An hour watching Game of Thrones is an hour i cannot play video games. That is what "replacement" mean.

Foie Gras was just outlawed in CA, you don't see me bitch &  moan for hours because i like it. I will just going to order cavier, or wagyu beef instead.

If there are so many good options, it simply is not worth headache bitch and moan about the ones i don't have.

I am talking about myself not about you. 

For me watching a drama movie is not direct replacement of urge to read dark fantasy novel. If I crave for novel then after watching a movie I will still crave it even if I use my entertaiment time to watch movie becase there is no good dark fantasy novel on the market. (hyphotetical example).

Additionally I don't bitch and moan, if you see it in that light - then well it's your problem not mine.

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1529

4/24/13 2:26:57 PM#40
Everything EVE Online has to offer, only with walking in stations, less lag and devs not showing favoritism to certain player groups.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

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