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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » CU: The Niche MMO that is trying to kickstart on a Triple-A budget

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84 posts found
  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

 
OP  4/23/13 12:32:43 PM#1

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget.  Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.

SUP

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/23/13 12:38:12 PM#2
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

SO been thinking of this for a while now.  MJ has consistently said Camelot Unchained is a niche MMO being developed for a niche crowd.  Now this is all fine and all but as we approach the end of the Kickstarter campaign we are seeing more complaining amongst its very vocal fanbase, bordering on obsessive fanboi'ism even.  Time and time again any dectractor to the game is disparraged for questioning the authority of MJ or any design decision with "this is a Niche game with a niche playerbase".  To which It finally dawned on me the other day, if this is a niche game, why did they try to fund at such a high level.

 

This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget.  Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.

Doesn't a triple A MMO need over $50M to fund? $5M doesn't seems any close to that to me.

 

On another note, can i come and laugh at you if the KS does fund? :)

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

4/23/13 12:43:22 PM#3

The amount of trolling traffic far out weighs that of the vocal fanbase.  The CU community was very active on these forums until moderation became questionable and the trolls consistently roamed freely.  Granted, some of the "fanbois" were equally as aggressive back to the attention whoring posters that visited.  Most of us got tired of the crap that went on here and relocated.

Nonetheless, $5 million to develop a game that will would have 30k-70k+ subscribers is not a higher request margin.  It's extremely low for the overhead during development.

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  collekt

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/13
Posts: 208

4/23/13 12:44:48 PM#4
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

This is jsut further proof that the people behind this KS'er have no understanding of the demographics of the MMO'verse, trying to Kickstart a niche MMO on a Triple-A budget.  Here's a hint next time know your base and know your limitations, Star Citizen and Shadowrun were successfuly Kickstarted because they monetary goals matched their outlook, CU's Goals are unrealistic.

Trying to say they don't know anything about the MMO'verse while you personally claim that $5M is a Triple-A budget. Oh irony, how I love thee. 

  Ghavrigg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 720

4/23/13 12:47:32 PM#5

So, OP, how many MMO's/games exactly have you created to acquire this knowledge of cost efficiency? I assume you must be more experienced with game design and development finances than MJ, since you're saying he has no clue.

$2 million isn't exactly a lot of money for development in this genre.

 

  UOlover

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 331

4/23/13 12:47:57 PM#6

It's only niche for the funding. On release day there will be the usual zerg of players because quite frankly people are desparate for anything new.

and everquest next, that's a triple-A budget game

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1132

4/23/13 12:49:56 PM#7

This takes the prize for weirdest complaint I've seen. Since when is $2 million a AAA budget? AAA MMOs such as SWTOR and GW 2 were developed for 10s of millions of dollars perhaps even 100s of millions depending on who you believe. CSE is taking all sorts of short cuts due to the small funding level they will have. You can see this in the number of classes and races, lack of pet classes, lack of PvE, and many other aspects of the design.

Could the Kickstarter have been done differently, focused more tightly on its core niche, and gone for a smaller initial goal of $1 - 1.5 million with some aspects of the current basic design becoming stretch goals? Yes I strongly think so. Still it's not remotely a AAA MMO even at its current $2 million goal.

Camelot Unchained Founder
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  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

4/23/13 12:57:55 PM#8
Originally posted by meddyck

This takes the prize for weirdest complaint I've seen. Since when is $2 million a AAA budget? AAA MMOs such as SWTOR and GW 2 were developed for 10s of millions of dollars perhaps even 100s of millions depending on who you believe. CSE is taking all sorts of short cuts due to the small funding level they will have. You can see this in the number of classes and races, lack of pet classes, lack of PvE, and many other aspects of the design.

Could the Kickstarter have been done differently, focused more tightly on its core niche, and gone for a smaller initial goal of $1 - 1.5 million with some aspects of the current basic design becoming stretch goals? Yes I strongly think so. Still it's not remotely a AAA MMO even at its current $2 million goal.

This.  and IBTL!

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/23/13 12:59:34 PM#9
You can make a game relatively easily, anyone can do it. You simply write down an idea that seems like it could be fun and then use your resources to produce it. MMO's that are massive require a lot of money and man power to be maintained. Whether this is niche or not they will need more than 5 million to launch and sustain this. That is of course if everything goes their way and they don't run into any problems.
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19003

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/23/13 1:04:24 PM#10
Like others started, this is not a AAA budget, which these days seem to range from 50-200+ M

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/23/13 1:07:07 PM#11
Lol at triple a budget
  belatucadros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 272

4/23/13 1:24:01 PM#12

A++ would be trolled by again

 

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  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/23/13 1:28:39 PM#13
As much as I dont like DaoC and DaoC clone wanna'be games....not even I would go so far as to try to say 2 million is AAA budget...heck, 2 million isnt even B budget.
  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1360

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/23/13 2:02:03 PM#14

Agree with the o.p. $2 mil is too high. Doubt they will make it. Anyone claiming $50 mil+ are AAA budgets, that sounds silly to me. WoW cost $20mil. EQ cost (guessing here) $10 mil. Vanguard was abandoned by Microsoft as being too expensive at the $15 mil mark. And Vanguard was a massive, ambitious game with evolutionary changes in UI and gameplay. Too bad it had more issues than Time magazine, not the least of which was the terrible WoWification it underwent right before launch.

So I would argue that AAA budgets should be around $20 mil.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
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  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

4/23/13 2:12:29 PM#15

Trying, it already hit 1 mill ages ago. 2mill gets us the Depths, but even if we dont the Depths will be an Xpac somewhere down the road I assume.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/23/13 2:15:55 PM#16
Originally posted by Tierless

Trying, it already hit 1 mill ages ago. 2mill gets us the Depths, but even if we dont the Depths will be an Xpac somewhere down the road I assume.

Nope, the kickstarter clearly states "This project will only be funded if at least $2,000,000 is pledged by Thursday May 2, 11:56am EDT."

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

4/23/13 2:20:40 PM#17
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

The amount of trolling traffic far out weighs that of the vocal fanbase.  The CU community was very active on these forums until moderation became questionable and the trolls consistently roamed freely.  Granted, some of the "fanbois" were equally as aggressive back to the attention whoring posters that visited.  Most of us got tired of the crap that went on here and relocated.

Nonetheless, $5 million to develop a game that will would have 30k-70k+ subscribers is not a higher request margin.  It's extremely low for the overhead during development.

Negative opinions of CU and Mark Jacobs does not equal trolling. Sorry to destroy your world.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19003

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/23/13 2:22:04 PM#18
Originally posted by Arclan

Agree with the o.p. $2 mil is too high. Doubt they will make it. Anyone claiming $50 mil+ are AAA budgets, that sounds silly to me. WoW cost $20mil. EQ cost (guessing here) $10 mil. Vanguard was abandoned by Microsoft as being too expensive at the $15 mil mark. And Vanguard was a massive, ambitious game with evolutionary changes in UI and gameplay. Too bad it had more issues than Time magazine, not the least of which was the terrible WoWification it underwent right before launch.

So I would argue that AAA budgets should be around $20 mil.

You are guessing, believe I saw estimates pegging WOW at between 50-75M, and some newer titles are reported to be in the 100M-200 M range.

Rarely do companies release this specific info.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2111

joie de vivre

4/23/13 2:23:57 PM#19


Originally posted by JasonJ

Originally posted by Tierless Trying, it already hit 1 mill ages ago. 2mill gets us the Depths, but even if we dont the Depths will be an Xpac somewhere down the road I assume.
Nope, the kickstarter clearly states "This project will only be funded if at least $2,000,000 is pledged by Thursday May 2, 11:56am EDT."

I wish I knew that BEFORE I got the CU logo tattoo...I guess I'll just tell people I'm Norsk so it represents my ancestry...

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

4/23/13 2:38:56 PM#20

You think 2 M is triple AAA budget? hahahahaha

 

Thanks I couldn't have had a better chuckle at the end of my day =)


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