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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » 10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

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430 posts found
  Eol-

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 275

4/23/13 9:59:41 AM#401
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

TESO will fail simple reason being it's a lame themepark mmo with some elements of DAOC RvR.

The players will ride the rides and then grow tired of the game it's just how it is with all these new themepark mmo's coming out.

 

TESO should first and foremost been a sandbox hybrid themepark .... look at ArcheAge as a perfect example of what TESO should have strived towards.

Once people  ride the rides there is nothing to do in the game, no player housing, guild halls, crafting or other social elements to pass the time. They think people will just run dungeons over and over chasing the carrot for gear?

Sorry but WoW already has this done and and ran it into the ground.

 

I personally won't play another mmo unless it gives me something else to do beside run dungeons and chase the carrot on stick loot grind.

This post doesnt make sense. In particular, how you dismiss RvR. First you say its a themepark, then you admit it has 'elements' of RvR (it doesnt have 'elements', it has RvR, period), then you say there's nothing left to do except run dungeons???? Thats the whole point of the RvR: they are NOT going the WoW route of instanced raids and gear, they are going the DAoC route which is very different. Personally I think thats a wise choice because while it may alienate some players who dont like any type of PvP, I agree that copying WoW's endgame is a mistake because WoW does that very well and other games have tried and failed to out-WoW WoW. And yes, while WoW has done this and run it into the ground, they also have millions of subscribers who have been paying every month for years to keep doing that. So going after a different niche in the market makes good sense IMO.

And I am totally confused why you say there is no crafting or social elements??? I swear,  its like you took all these criticisms of MMORPGs and threw them at ESO regardless of if they apply or not.

Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  JKwervo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 140

4/23/13 1:10:49 PM#402
Originally posted by ShakyMo
The game is heavily instanced, phased whatever.

I just find it amusing you picked up on cyrodil, as that is the one single zone in the game that isn't instanced.

 

Because you pointed out their pvp was done right and not instanced. Which was false, at least in my opinion. But lets keep clamoring how zenimax did it the right way, and when it launches they execute differently. The game that truly emulates what DAOc was is CU. And before anyone says I'm a proponent for CU, think again. In the end, if RVR pvp is a major part if not the main part of your main endgame, IMHO, that game will not be successful. At least with CU they admit to making it niche.
  NeVeRLiFt

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 377

4/23/13 2:59:23 PM#403
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

TESO will fail simple reason being it's a lame themepark mmo with some elements of DAOC RvR.

The players will ride the rides and then grow tired of the game it's just how it is with all these new themepark mmo's coming out.

 

TESO should first and foremost been a sandbox hybrid themepark .... look at ArcheAge as a perfect example of what TESO should have strived towards.

Once people  ride the rides there is nothing to do in the game, no player housing, guild halls, crafting or other social elements to pass the time. They think people will just run dungeons over and over chasing the carrot for gear?

Sorry but WoW already has this done and and ran it into the ground.

 

I personally won't play another mmo unless it gives me something else to do beside run dungeons and chase the carrot on stick loot grind.

This post doesnt make sense. In particular, how you dismiss RvR. First you say its a themepark, then you admit it has 'elements' of RvR (it doesnt have 'elements', it has RvR, period), then you say there's nothing left to do except run dungeons???? Thats the whole point of the RvR: they are NOT going the WoW route of instanced raids and gear, they are going the DAoC route which is very different. Personally I think thats a wise choice because while it may alienate some players who dont like any type of PvP, I agree that copying WoW's endgame is a mistake because WoW does that very well and other games have tried and failed to out-WoW WoW. And yes, while WoW has done this and run it into the ground, they also have millions of subscribers who have been paying every month for years to keep doing that. So going after a different niche in the market makes good sense IMO.

And I am totally confused why you say there is no crafting or social elements??? I swear,  its like you took all these criticisms of MMORPGs and threw them at ESO regardless of if they apply or not.

I don't look for TESO to have nice or even good PVP/RVR and the crafting looks laughable and tacked on, not something like you would expect or want from an mmo.

SWG, FE, EQ2 and LoTRO all have a form of crafting that would've been better suited.

As does ArcheAge....

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2668

110100100

4/23/13 10:23:37 PM#404


Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

Originally posted by Eol-

Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt TESO will fail simple reason being it's a lame themepark mmo with some elements of DAOC RvR. The players will ride the rides and then grow tired of the game it's just how it is with all these new themepark mmo's coming out.   TESO should first and foremost been a sandbox hybrid themepark .... look at ArcheAge as a perfect example of what TESO should have strived towards. Once people  ride the rides there is nothing to do in the game, no player housing, guild halls, crafting or other social elements to pass the time. They think people will just run dungeons over and over chasing the carrot for gear? Sorry but WoW already has this done and and ran it into the ground.   I personally won't play another mmo unless it gives me something else to do beside run dungeons and chase the carrot on stick loot grind.
This post doesnt make sense. In particular, how you dismiss RvR. First you say its a themepark, then you admit it has 'elements' of RvR (it doesnt have 'elements', it has RvR, period), then you say there's nothing left to do except run dungeons???? Thats the whole point of the RvR: they are NOT going the WoW route of instanced raids and gear, they are going the DAoC route which is very different. Personally I think thats a wise choice because while it may alienate some players who dont like any type of PvP, I agree that copying WoW's endgame is a mistake because WoW does that very well and other games have tried and failed to out-WoW WoW. And yes, while WoW has done this and run it into the ground, they also have millions of subscribers who have been paying every month for years to keep doing that. So going after a different niche in the market makes good sense IMO. And I am totally confused why you say there is no crafting or social elements??? I swear,  its like you took all these criticisms of MMORPGs and threw them at ESO regardless of if they apply or not.
I don't look for TESO to have nice or even good PVP/RVR and the crafting looks laughable and tacked on, not something like you would expect or want from an mmo.

SWG, FE, EQ2 and LoTRO all have a form of crafting that would've been better suited.

As does ArcheAge....


care to explain how the crafting looks "laughable and tacked on"?

personally, i think the crafting looks quite good judged by the info we have.

its really the only thing about this game i am pretty confident that will be good.

also, archeage will not be any more of a success than a themepark, you will find that out the hard way apparently.

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

4/23/13 11:24:55 PM#405
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

TESO will fail simple reason being it's a lame themepark mmo with some elements of DAOC RvR.

The players will ride the rides and then grow tired of the game it's just how it is with all these new themepark mmo's coming out.

 

TESO should first and foremost been a sandbox hybrid themepark .... look at ArcheAge as a perfect example of what TESO should have strived towards.

Once people  ride the rides there is nothing to do in the game, no player housing, guild halls, crafting or other social elements to pass the time. They think people will just run dungeons over and over chasing the carrot for gear?

Sorry but WoW already has this done and and ran it into the ground.

 

I personally won't play another mmo unless it gives me something else to do beside run dungeons and chase the carrot on stick loot grind.

This post doesnt make sense. In particular, how you dismiss RvR. First you say its a themepark, then you admit it has 'elements' of RvR (it doesnt have 'elements', it has RvR, period), then you say there's nothing left to do except run dungeons???? Thats the whole point of the RvR: they are NOT going the WoW route of instanced raids and gear, they are going the DAoC route which is very different. Personally I think thats a wise choice because while it may alienate some players who dont like any type of PvP, I agree that copying WoW's endgame is a mistake because WoW does that very well and other games have tried and failed to out-WoW WoW. And yes, while WoW has done this and run it into the ground, they also have millions of subscribers who have been paying every month for years to keep doing that. So going after a different niche in the market makes good sense IMO.

And I am totally confused why you say there is no crafting or social elements??? I swear,  its like you took all these criticisms of MMORPGs and threw them at ESO regardless of if they apply or not.

I don't look for TESO to have nice or even good PVP/RVR and the crafting looks laughable and tacked on, not something like you would expect or want from an mmo.

SWG, FE, EQ2 and LoTRO all have a form of crafting that would've been better suited.

As does ArcheAge....

Have fun in AA then?  Please elaborate on how TESO's crafting is?  Cause I sure as hell have yet to see an official Dev interview or gameplay that shows how Crafting is done and if you got some hidden wisdom on the finer workings of an unreleased core system then I would liek to know about it.

 

Or is it that you do not know and you are passing off your biased speculation as fact?  I would bet it would be the latter.

 

I would rather play a game that actually was fun, looked good, was innovative and tried to stay true to an original IP then play a game filled with things I consider "fluff" that do not appeal to me.

 

Hey look I can plant a crop and grow some tomatoes and build a structure that sits out in the world and offers no real reason other then to do it.  The majority of AA's system look more tacked on then anything I would think TESO is trying to accomplish but thats because I guess I am a Meat and Potatoes kind of gamer and I want my game to get the things that matter RIGHT!  The major systems of AA is nothing more then a WoW clone and that is a proven fact.  Linear quests, linear world, tab target "yawn" inducing combat.

SUP

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2668

110100100

4/23/13 11:51:19 PM#406


Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Have fun in AA then?  Please elaborate on how TESO's crafting is?  Cause I sure as hell have yet to see an official Dev interview or gameplay that shows how Crafting is done and if you got some hidden wisdom on the finer workings of an unreleased core system then I would liek to know about it.



http://youtu.be/Ed2VZXMJo8Y

that is an interview with PS about the crafting and nothing about it screams "tacked on" or "laughable".

the fact that you can craft the best gear in the game contradicts that statement alone.

like i said before, IMO i feel more confident about TESO's crafting than probably any other feature in the game at this point.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/24/13 4:16:39 AM#407
Originally posted by ShakyMo
As I pointed out they went with rvr as a compromise.

I would play a fantasy eve thousands wouldn't.

I wouldn't touch a pure pve mmo. Or even a wow style queue to do instanced crap setup.

I find it difficult to imagine a fantasy Eve - insofar as it would have to incorporate a lot of elements Eve hasn't yet tackled.

Eve is a very good game, but some of its success relates to the fact the format is very straightforwards. First person single toon MMOs are very different beasts.

That's not to say some of the successful elements of Eve could not be adapted, but the end product, even with a very good dev team, would be significantly removed from what Eve is now.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

4/24/13 4:24:25 AM#408
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by nate1980

All I've gotta say is when a developer claims to target a specific audience, they better pay attention to what the majority of that audience wants from said game. In this case, a TES game needs to be a TES game. Not a TES-esque game. 

I just read the Game Informer review on ESO and that guy is raving about how fun the game is and feels like TES, yet on the other hand admits that the game is far more linear than other TES games. You go from one quest hub to the next. I think this is probably the main storyline, but he says each area has some good side quests, area quests, and plenty of nuggets for explorers. The point being, when you change things that don't need changing in an IP series, fans get upset. They changed the way content is delivered, they've gated content and zones by level, they've melded TES/GW2 combat into one (IMO) craptacular model.

Low level is never a good judge of how a game plays. Also the devs have said you can wander off the quest hubs. There is lots of things to encounter in the open world and to explore. Most MMOs have quest hubs so they added them but thats not the end of things with ESO.

yes im hoping its just the starter zone, and they've made that more wow like to ease "acustomed mmo players" in.

hopefully it will open up and be more exploration and less quest driven later, like tes (and daoc).

This would seem most likely to me - but you never know...

  BloodyViking

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/08/12
Posts: 129

4/24/13 4:43:04 AM#409

[mod edit]

The main problem to me is that TES gameplay has always been about freedom of choice. TESO is non of that. It is a locked down generic piece of crap they are trying to wrap up in silk and spray perfume on.

[mod edit]

  jmcdermottuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 918

4/24/13 5:17:49 AM#410
Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

I would rather play a game that actually was fun, looked good, was innovative and tried to stay true to an original IP then play a game filled with things I consider "fluff" that do not appeal to me.

I'd just like to comment on this one sentance.

Fun is subjective and will be something each individual has to judge.

Looks good? I've seen the beta footage and to me this doesn't look good. The character models aren't very inspiring and the animations are pretty bad in my opinion. Again though, this is something that is subjective.

Innovative? This one can't be applied to TESO because there's nothing here we haven't seen before. It's core premise is based on a 13 year old game. Where's the innovation?

As for staying true to the original IP, I think the very heated discussion we have going on here would be enough to convince anyone that many people think that TESO has failed in that regard. Arbitrary alliances to force an RvR system, faction locking, restricted PvE exploration and a strict class system are not true to the IP.

The only things they've kept from the original IP would seem to be names and geography.

  Siug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1140

4/24/13 5:22:13 AM#411
Originally posted by BloodyViking

 

[mod edit]

The main problem to me is that TES gameplay has always been about freedom of choice. TESO is non of that. It is a locked down generic piece of crap they are trying to wrap up in silk and spray perfume on.

[mod edit]

I really hope it won't happen. Playing SWTOR I finally understood what a themepark meant - everything was still and static and while leveling my Sith warrior was fun there wasn't much else to do there. I'd like to play TESO much longer.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 6:37:22 AM#412
Neverlift

If they did "daoc crafting", I don't think they will though they will do tes crafting.

The crafting would be much much more important than it is in lotro, EQ & eq2.

It wouldn't be as involved as swg though.
  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

4/24/13 12:53:48 PM#413
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk
Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

I would rather play a game that actually was fun, looked good, was innovative and tried to stay true to an original IP then play a game filled with things I consider "fluff" that do not appeal to me.

I'd just like to comment on this one sentance.

Fun is subjective and will be something each individual has to judge.

Looks good? I've seen the beta footage and to me this doesn't look good. The character models aren't very inspiring and the animations are pretty bad in my opinion. Again though, this is something that is subjective.

Innovative? This one can't be applied to TESO because there's nothing here we haven't seen before. It's core premise is based on a 13 year old game. Where's the innovation?

As for staying true to the original IP, I think the very heated discussion we have going on here would be enough to convince anyone that many people think that TESO has failed in that regard. Arbitrary alliances to force an RvR system, faction locking, restricted PvE exploration and a strict class system are not true to the IP.

The only things they've kept from the original IP would seem to be names and geography.

Why argue subjectivism then?

 

DWUW doesnt look good but it gets players, gfx does not a game make.

 

Innovative because the game features freedom of exploration, Elder Scrolls like Points of Interest.  Innovative because it offeres the flexibility in Combat Mechanics with its resouce based mechanics instead of cooldown mechanics.  Innovative becasue any class can wear any armor or wield any weapon.  Innovative because Character progression is not tied to Class based systems or Skillless based trainers.  (IMO the single greatest innovative feature of the game)

The game stays true to the IP because the PvE world is an almost cut and paste of Skyrim, with some exceptions and deviations.  Adding an RvR PvP game ontop of seomethign does not take away from the original for 2 reasons:  First, Your PvE areas are greater in scope then any single player game and secondly PvP is needed in an MMO to appeal to a wider audience.  Now you could argue that another PvP model would maybe make more sense, but then you're getting into WoW clone any more or FFA PvP.  In the grand scheme of things, having an DAoC style PvP system makes more sense from a financial and innovative standpoint then the failed instanced battleground bullcrap of WoW or the niche FFA PvP systems of other games.  Thats it  3 types of PvP, so choose the one that is the best and has been done the least.

SUP

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 12:57:57 PM#414
Although ffa with varying safety levels would feel more tes like.

But that would scare away a big chunk of people too.
Likewise no pvp or wow crap would discourage another big chunk of players.

Hence they made a compromise and went for rvr.
  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

4/24/13 1:04:00 PM#415
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Although ffa with varying safety levels would feel more tes like.

But that would scare away a big chunk of people too.
Likewise no pvp or wow crap would discourage another big chunk of players.

Hence they made a compromise and went for rvr.

Exactly.

 

Even though I would of preferred a "NO" PvP model that would not be conducive to appealing to a larger segment of gamers.  So in lieu of this, I'll take the PvP path less travelled.  A path that is arguably the best PvP  course of direction.  Does it fit the setting, I'll be the first to admit it doesn't, but it does make more economical sense.

SUP

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 1:08:09 PM#416
I actually think it will work out better for pure pve players.

Nothing shows up class imbalances and generates nerf/buff whine like 5vs5 pvp matches does.
  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

4/24/13 1:11:41 PM#417
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I actually think it will work out better for pure pve players.

Nothing shows up class imbalances and generates nerf/buff whine like 5vs5 pvp matches does.

Yet another perfect aspect you bring up shaky.

SUP

  neobahamut20

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 362

We can only show them the path, but they have to be the ones to take it.

4/24/13 1:26:25 PM#418
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Developers no long just have fans, they have mobs that think they know better about game development then they and we create negitive feedback till they see it our way. Or else we will post something negitive in every thread and news outlet about the game. We drive away people thinking maybe our negitive thinking maybe true and often drive off new fans before any real reason is valid to do so. We dont have a product in had to be upset about.

This is the very problem actually. However, you attack it in the wrong sense. You put the onus on the customer to be a fan of the developpers while it is the developpers that should work to have fans. Sadly enough, most people would fare better as a developper in today's industry, if given the chance. Now obviously, they would also want to actually innovate and innovation scares investors and so most here will never be given the chance to show their skills.

The developper has no fans because they are not working for it. They simply recycle old stuff and try to pass it off as something new for the quick buck then they move on to the next target. TES fans wanted a TES game, be it MMO or multiplayer, they wanted TES. Instead, they will be getting old washed up stuff they've all played before and aren't playing now because they are fed up with it and you blame them for being vocal and voicing their deception?

 

You simply cannot blame the players because the developpers are creating a sub-par product to please someone's "Return on Investment". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

4/24/13 1:26:39 PM#419
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I actually think it will work out better for pure pve players.

Nothing shows up class imbalances and generates nerf/buff whine like 5vs5 pvp matches does.

I played both DAoC and Warhammer Online, both of which balanced classes on the rock / paper / scissors paradigm with large groups in mind, yet both suffered from more than their fair share of class nerfs in both PvP and PvE aspects despite this.  Just like any MMO that embraces the nerf bat, the consequences were quite visible as people shifted to the FOTM class or shifted to the more populated and or powerful faction or even just quitting from frustration.  Even the shining example of Eve has many a bad press due to nerfs.

 

I can't think of a game that I have played that offered PvP along with PvE, where the PvE didn't suffer horribly due to PvP "balancing".

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4128

4/24/13 1:57:29 PM#420
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I actually think it will work out better for pure pve players.

Nothing shows up class imbalances and generates nerf/buff whine like 5vs5 pvp matches does.

I played both DAoC and Warhammer Online, both of which balanced classes on the rock / paper / scissors paradigm with large groups in mind, yet both suffered from more than their fair share of class nerfs in both PvP and PvE aspects despite this.  Just like any MMO that embraces the nerf bat, the consequences were quite visible as people shifted to the FOTM class or shifted to the more populated and or powerful faction or even just quitting from frustration.  Even the shining example of Eve has many a bad press due to nerfs.

 

I can't think of a game that I have played that offered PvP along with PvE, where the PvE didn't suffer horribly due to PvP "balancing".

The one criticism I've heard about ESO classes is that they are almost irrelevant starting points that can be ignored.

When everyone can be a rock, paper and/or scissor you just might be able to break away from the nerf cycles.

Here everyone can be ranged and melee and use any armor or any weapon and cast spells and have stealth. Should make it pretty easy when all youi have to do is balance abilities relative to each other without having to worry about "class balance" It's sort of like TSW in that respect.

But like in every game, players will figure out what build works best at the moment and fotm builds will appear and change as abiltites get balanced. The difference here is that everyone can use the new "best" abilities and go with the flow...or not. But no need to re-roll a new class.

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