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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » 10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

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430 posts found
  UnrealRpg

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/07
Posts: 109

4/22/13 8:37:04 PM#381
Sounds like every game ever until it comes out. Every forum on every site.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/22/13 8:44:00 PM#382
Originally posted by JKwervo
Yeah. Still an instance. :)

instancing is when you spawn MULTIPLE copies of a zone 

e.g. INSTANCED dungeons, pvp mingame matches, these games that spawn extra copies of the worlds zones when they fill up - like SWTOR and AOC and what have you.

zones is where you have areas that border other areas, where some games hide the transistion well (e.g. airships in wow) and some games don't - e.g. portals that bring up a loading screen. but there is only ever 1 SINGULAR copy of each (on a server)

ALL MMOS ARE ZONED

NOT ALL ARE INSTANCED

  BeansnBread

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5562

4/22/13 8:48:27 PM#383
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by JKwervo
Yeah. Still an instance. :)

instancing is when you spawn MULTIPLE copies of a zone 

e.g. INSTANCED dungeons, pvp mingame matches, these games that spawn extra copies of the worlds zones when they fill up - like SWTOR and AOC and what have you.

zones is where you have areas that border other areas, where some games hide the transistion well (e.g. airships in wow) and some games don't - e.g. portals that bring up a loading screen. but there is only ever 1 SINGULAR copy of each (on a server)

ALL MMOS ARE ZONED

NOT ALL ARE INSTANCED

It feels instancy though. The entire PvE world will basically be instanced on a megaserver under different campaign names that you can travel between. Basically, channels.

 

The PvP world is just a zone in one of these instanced channels that only other people in your channel can go to.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  JKwervo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 140

4/22/13 8:50:19 PM#384
Its one server. "Zoning" different "campaigns". Gotcha. Still instancing IMHO. But it seems you're the expert.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4098

4/22/13 9:01:18 PM#385
Originally posted by JKwervo
Yeah. Still an instance. :)

Is a server in WOW an instance? It actually is you know.

That's what a Cyrodiil campaign is, a server...with a name just like WOW servers. There wil be several and all of them there 24/7 for those who are part of that server to go there or not. 

Unlike a BG it has no time limits or e-sport style silly scoreboards.

The weird thing here is not Cyrodiil, it's the rest of the PvE megaserver with as many "instances" "phases" whatever you want to call them as needed.

When you say Cyrodiil = instanced  that's right. Just like servers are instances. But when you also say = battleground, that just shows your... confusion.

 

  fisch1002

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 9

4/22/13 9:04:01 PM#386

I was wondering, did anyone read PC Gamers March 2013 Articles on this? It may not address much, but there seems to be something about the "locked " factions. I was curious as this may have been changed. Links below

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-what-i-loved-and-what-i-didnt-as-a-long-time-elder-scrolls-fan/

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/the-elder-scrolls-online-hands-on-first-person-mode-skills-stealth-and-more/

It may be nothing, I was just wondering if anyone read these?

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4098

4/22/13 9:15:26 PM#387
Originally posted by fisch1002

I was wondering, did anyone read PC Gamers March 2013 Articles on this? It may not address much, but there seems to be something about the "locked " factions. I was curious as this may have been changed. Links below

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-what-i-loved-and-what-i-didnt-as-a-long-time-elder-scrolls-fan/

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/the-elder-scrolls-online-hands-on-first-person-mode-skills-stealth-and-more/

It may be nothing, I was just wondering if anyone read these?

 No I hadn't seen them. Nice find, thanks :)

Loved this bit:

"...skills in TESO are not cooldown based. Your ability to spam skills is entirely based on your available health, stamina or magicka, and as such combat is more about effective use of those resources than it is about settling into a set rhythm. Blocking, sprinting and dodging use stamina, for example, making them a trade-off with powerful melee skills like cleaves.

Unlike prior Elder Scrolls games, spells do not need to be equipped into a hand before being cast – they fire instantly. This speeds up combat and is the chief thing – besides the aforementioned feedback issues – that makes TESO feel different to previous games in the series. Expect to see more spells being cast, by more people. Nonetheless, the system is theoretically closer to the single player games than it is to most MMOs."

A no-CD, stamina/health/magika-limited system...instant abilities... this means no stupid auto-attack between CDs and no self-rooting when you use abilities...this sounds promising.

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 980

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

4/22/13 9:24:35 PM#388

Sorry, but i see nothing in this game beyond the lore that is Elder Scrolls material, graphically one can argue it's the same but to me it seems even to big in areas (which mmo's do anyways) and everything in this game is lined up for a grind mentality. Tell you what, take Skyrim / MMO and I would be happy. Allow others to be champions as well, now that we have an MMO, add a housing section, expand the world beyond Skyrim and go for the same exact mechanics that is in Skyrim now and wala, SUPRISE winner MMO.

But...

What we get is an explanation in how lag would be issues and more, ... no what it comes down too is, well you want us to invest more larger sums of cash to actually add content to continue your hero? Crazy! We can just add pvp , grind missions  and item progressions to keep you busy!

 

So what we have here is another standard MMO WoW clone, sorry but that is what it is. Sure they might have a 3 faction war system and other features, but most of what made Elder Scrolls so great is not here, No targeting, any skill , open freedom to go anywhere and not be owned by doing so etc etc...

You and others can say "but wait they have that!" ,, no they don't , they have "their version" of that, not even close. When something isn't broke you don't remake it you enhance it if anything.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4098

4/22/13 9:28:41 PM#389
Originally posted by chaintm

Sorry, but i see nothing in this game beyond the lore that is Elder Scrolls material, graphically one can argue it's the same but to me it seems even to big in areas (which mmo's do anyways) and everything in this game is lined up for a grind mentality. Tell you what, take Skyrim / MMO and I would be happy. Allow others to be champions as well, now that we have an MMO, add a housing section, expand the world beyond Skyrim and go for the same exact mechanics that is in Skyrim now and wala, SUPRISE winner MMO.

But...

What we get is an explanation in how lag would be issues and more, ... no what it comes down too is, well you want us to invest more larger sums of cash to actually add content to continue your hero? Crazy! We can just add pvp , grind missions  and item progressions to keep you busy!

 

So what we have here is another standard MMO WoW clone, sorry but that is what it is. Sure they might have a 3 faction war system and other features, but most of what made Elder Scrolls so great is not here, No targeting, any skill , open freedom to go anywhere and not be owned by doing so etc etc...

You and others can say "but wait they have that!" ,, no they don't , they have "their version" of that, not even close. When something isn't broke you don't remake it you enhance it if anything.

 You confused me there at the end. This "something" you're referring to... is it WOW or Skyrim?

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 980

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

4/22/13 9:43:26 PM#390
Originally posted by Iselin

 You confused me there at the end. This "something" you're referring to... is it WOW or Skyrim?

Thought it was obvious my bad, refering to Skyrim as is, the mechanics and pretty much every aspect of design is good as is, thou improvments are always welcome. To me at least, the ESO version is what we expect in MMO's and looks, feels like a WoW clone in that aspect or for that matter an updated Dark Age Of Camelot, actually just pick any mainstream MMO and relate. Point to it all is, this is an MMO as we know MMO's with an Elder Scrolls skin. Most fans I know (including myself of course) always wanted an ES MMO but built as ES (IE latest release Skyrim) not an MMO with ES skin.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  atziluth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 1224

Killer 73.33%
Achiever 60.00%
Socializer 40.00%
Explorer 26.67%

4/22/13 9:54:10 PM#391
Originally posted by furbans

People don't come here for constructive or civilized discussion, this site is nothing but non-stop shit talking about X MMO.  From biased moderators to brownosing interview streams this site is anything but creditable discussions.  All this site offers is some marketing and that's all, good place for forum PvP though.

Pretty much... Trolling grounds for the fanboys and the haters alike. Anything constructive gets drowned out or hijacked. Semi-decent site for basic MMO news and a few decent blogs. Beyond that like you said nothing but forum PvP. I have all but stopped posting here because of it. No point... everyone shouts, no one listens. 

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 882

4/22/13 10:08:44 PM#392

I had fun playing http://www.gamespot.com/the-elder-scrolls-adventures-redguard/ in the past... but it was nothing like the games before it almost.

Was still fun tho and thats how i look at this game aswell.

Just like i feel Skyrim only did combat right where everything else failed compared to their older ES games.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

4/22/13 10:30:08 PM#393
Originally posted by atziluth
Originally posted by furbans

People don't come here for constructive or civilized discussion, this site is nothing but non-stop shit talking about X MMO.  From biased moderators to brownosing interview streams this site is anything but creditable discussions.  All this site offers is some marketing and that's all, good place for forum PvP though.

Pretty much... Trolling grounds for the fanboys and the haters alike. Anything constructive gets drowned out or hijacked. Semi-decent site for basic MMO news and a few decent blogs. Beyond that like you said nothing but forum PvP. I have all but stopped posting here because of it. No point... everyone shouts, no one listens. 

I wouldn't single out these forums for that....any open forum is liek this now no matter what the subject.Hell even Real Life public "Discussion"  is like that now,take politics...2 extremist factions trying to yell over each other and not really listening to each other except to twist each others words.Welcome to the world of today.

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 980

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

4/22/13 10:40:38 PM#394
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by atziluth
Originally posted by furbans

People don't come here for constructive or civilized discussion, this site is nothing but non-stop shit talking about X MMO.  From biased moderators to brownosing interview streams this site is anything but creditable discussions.  All this site offers is some marketing and that's all, good place for forum PvP though.

Pretty much... Trolling grounds for the fanboys and the haters alike. Anything constructive gets drowned out or hijacked. Semi-decent site for basic MMO news and a few decent blogs. Beyond that like you said nothing but forum PvP. I have all but stopped posting here because of it. No point... everyone shouts, no one listens. 

I wouldn't single out these forums for that....any open forum is liek this now no matter what the subject.Hell even Real Life public "Discussion"  is like that now,take politics...2 extremist factions trying to yell over each other and not really listening to each other except to twist each others words.Welcome to the world of today.

 

Anyone with half a brain can sort out the trolls and actual discussions, ANY forum has them I don't care where you go. Here it seems more prevelent because we don't have the mighty BAN HAMMER swinging it's will to fit that of the company ilk. So allot of people come here that are MMO gamers and more just because of that reason alone. Just for someone that doesn't agree with your choice makes them an instant troll is your choice, however again anyone with any reasonable common sense or knowelge can identify a troll from not a troll.

What the OP is representing here is "Devs please don't listen to these a-holes, I know better then they do" concept. Meh that's his choice, but anyone with a handful of rocks in their brains know that most things that are said on this site usually ends up being pretty much spot on.

People gave conan crap, it did fail as a huge release and even to keep the population at descent numbers, it didn't close as predicted thou.

People gave crap about SWTOR online and that did fail but still is open today so half predicted truths.

GW2 same thing the list goes on...

The fact is most everyone here knows what a generic peice of crap MMO's are and the ONLY way they (the developers) will convince the masses to change to their concepts is to well.... "ACTUALLY COME UP WITH NEW CONCEPTS". Pretty much it. Hell this game could be a huge hit if it was Skyrim meets MMO , but no, it's MMO meet Skyrim, they got the priorities wrong and people are calling them on it. Simple as that. Opinions sure enough, but if anything there are a vast majority here that do play MMO's (go figure) and have friends etc whom they will relate this info.

These numbers are important enough for developers to seek out this site, advertisers and more. So as much as the OP and maybe yourself would like to see our opinions meaning jack and sh**, sorry to say they actually have some meaning. Many of us are looking for the next greatest thing , if someone would have the balls to do so.

 

edit; PS, I am a developer and I would love to develop an MMO, however it is not my speciality nor do I have direct connections to those with the money, however I am also a gamer so here I can voice my opinion among others to hope a development house does listen. We hope at least ;)

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  JKwervo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 140

4/22/13 11:23:41 PM#395
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by JKwervo
Yeah. Still an instance. :)

Is a server in WOW an instance? It actually is you know.

That's what a Cyrodiil campaign is, a server...with a name just like WOW servers. There wil be several and all of them there 24/7 for those who are part of that server to go there or not. 

Unlike a BG it has no time limits or e-sport style silly scoreboards.

The weird thing here is not Cyrodiil, it's the rest of the PvE megaserver with as many "instances" "phases" whatever you want to call them as needed.

When you say Cyrodiil = instanced  that's right. Just like servers are instances. But when you also say = battleground, that just shows your... confusion.

 

So...just because the Campaign "Zone" is hosted on a seperate server, theorytically, you compare it to an actual server for gamestyle or game servers? If that's the case, couldn't we do the same for General chat? Since that's supposedly a seperate server on most games.? 

I mean, you're just basically trying to twist my words to try and push your definition of instancing and basically saying I'm wrong for thinking differently and seeing it differently from you or saying I'm confused. Cryodiil is a huge battleground. It's made for PvP  right? The only difference is Warzones/BGs have a timer. Cryodiil doesn't. But it's still an instance. 

Here's my definition:

 

Instance


Definition: A segment of gameplay in MMORPGs in which players form a group together and enter a special area in the game world, usually through some type of portal. They are then essentially cut off from the rest of the gamers in that only people who are in the group when the group passes through the portal will be able to enter the dungeon with them. Other groups may enter the dungeon, but will not encounter the first group, hence they are in a different INSTANCE of the same dungeon. The use of instances allows players to avoid the risk of kill-stealing or spawn-camping by other players. Loot and monster level inside an instance is usually higher than anywhere else in the game world, and there are usually specific systems in place to ensure the fair distribution of loot among party members. 


Usage: My guild just did a new instance for the first time and I won some pretty awesome loot. 

Which, in this case is Cryodiil. Being seperated into Campaigns. On a MEGA server. You see, I'm not bashing on the game. I really am rooting for them and hopefully they do what they set out to do and offer something different. However, ShakyMo said that it's not instancing. That's where I beg to differ. We can argue back and forth at this point, but it's semantics now. 

To me, from that definition, this game is FILLED with instancing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm saying, I beg to differ from ShakyMo's version of instancing, and obviously from YOUR definition of it as well. 

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2667

110100100

4/23/13 12:00:40 AM#396


Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by ShakyMo Trudge.Because...A) lame easymoders would all choose the current biggest faction.B) because huge zerg guilds would develop making the game lob-sided, as everyone they recruit would end up picking that faction.
  judging by the info we have, you don't pick campaigns, they are assigned to you. you can pick the faction that has overall the most numbers but once you get assigned to a campaign, it may not be the winning faction in that campaign. you can switch but that is assuming you can then pick the new campaign you would like to join, which i doubt. not only that but campaigns end, not sure how that works exactly but i would assume they get balanced once the new campaigns begin. yes, the downside to that is there is no rivalries or faction pride but it does make it more balanced in theory. hopefully they at least add a ranking system of some sort and once certain top end guilds assert their dominance, they get paired with other top end guilds from the other factions, which could build some decent rivalries. with the way they are doing it it can be done.
My opinion of campaigns and the megaserver is that they spent way too much time thinking about what happens when servers loose population and overthought the problem.

The old-fashioned server system would work much better here since you'd also be PvEing with the same people you PvP with. You'd get to know your faction mates much better.


right, but then you would have the same issues with faction imbalances and people jumping on the winning side.

it has its pros and cons, not sure how i will feel about it until i try it for myself.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2667

110100100

4/23/13 12:09:43 AM#397


Originally posted by JKwervo

Originally posted by ShakyMo


Originally posted by JKwervo

Originally posted by ShakyMo one thing ive noticed theres at least 4 of us in this thread that are fans of both TES and DAOC not quite the mutally exclusive complete oposite in games some people on here make out. I remember when i first played morrowind, thinking "wow this is a bit like daoc PVE in a single player game, I can just wander off and kill stuff and explore dungeons and what have you, im not having to follow quest chains and a story, i can just go make my own story"  (most of the rpgs id played at that point were story orientated with deviations - like kotor, i hadn't played the likes of fallout then, being a dirty console peasant at the time.) obviously the PVP is vastly different though, but thats because TES is a single player game it doesn't have PVP now in my head I imagined TESO having eve pvp.  But I also had fun in daoc PVP, EVE PVP would have fitted the game better, but im just so amazingly glad this isn't yet another mmo that copies wows lame PVP systems. And i think most of the PVEers will too once theyv'e played the game.  It will be refreshing for them to have considerably less "class balance whine" on the forums because nothing shows up class imbalance like supposedly "fair" and "just like fps e-sport honest"  5vs5 and 10vs10 pvp minigames.  hell it will be even nice for thoose that think "heck i might just play half an hours pvp for fun, im chosing to do it, it's not getting ganked" when they are welcomed as all help is good help in a RVR setup, no "quit the match and let a real player in noob!" statements you get in instance pvp, they will be pleased to know they don't have to grind out pvp tokens, that PVE / craft gear they've got will do just nicely thank you, they may even join a raid going past belonging to an organised group and think "oh wow this stuff requires the same sort of communication, teamwork and organisation as my pve raiding, but theres no arguments over DKP and all that gubbins" - THATS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ANYWAY, a good few months into DAOC, i'd joined it intending to PVE only having left EQ.  glad i did, if my first pvp experience had been in one of these "e-sports pvp" mmos i probably would have never pvp'd again. If they made one Descision right in the design of teso, its that removing of any instanced pvp.  
  Cryodiil is instanced. They're seperated by "campaigns" essentially making it a huge battleground. Just from what I got from what they've said.
no you are confusing zoned and instanced.

 

If you have a limited amount of people that can enter, that is instanced, at least my definition of it. Zoned, phased, sharded, same thing to me. But, apparently your definition trumps mine. :)


there is a limited amount of people that can join a server as well.

in TESO you will be tied to one pvp zone that you can enter, call it what you want but its not the same as joining a random battleground instance, one of many you can join.


  JKwervo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 140

4/23/13 2:38:56 AM#398

Semantics now. 

The point is, I see it as pure instancing. You're locked into that campaign, seeing the same people over and over again. The only thing different, is it's persistent. 

Otherwise, I don't see it any different than the zones for PvP in GW2. The only main difference is, there are queues for those things. Which I guess you can say puts that in more of an instance than what TESO has, however, when you're tied to a "zone", that's still instancing in its very essence. 

But alas, I digress. Even if it's "zoning", that concept still isn't alluring. Why? The answer lies in your quoted answer to Iselin. 

Especially when you're completely tied to that "Campaign". 

Again, I will decide when I try it out. But as it is, a lot of the things they've said besides the wearing your own armor and skill level ups, aren't that interesting and honestly.....it sounds boring as shit. It is still GW2 in my eyes. Their supposed "raids"? Yeah. Reminds me of the Dragon fights in GW2, except....it will be instanced or....I guess I should say...phased. 

As of now, I am skeptical due to the fact that none of the design on paper impresses me. 

  NeVeRLiFt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 377

4/23/13 5:38:45 AM#399

TESO will fail simple reason being it's a lame themepark mmo with some elements of DAOC RvR.

The players will ride the rides and then grow tired of the game it's just how it is with all these new themepark mmo's coming out.

 

TESO should first and foremost been a sandbox hybrid themepark .... look at ArcheAge as a perfect example of what TESO should have strived towards.

Once people  ride the rides there is nothing to do in the game, no player housing, guild halls, crafting or other social elements to pass the time. They think people will just run dungeons over and over chasing the carrot for gear?

Sorry but WoW already has this done and and ran it into the ground.

 

I personally won't play another mmo unless it gives me something else to do beside run dungeons and chase the carrot on stick loot grind.

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/23/13 6:06:44 AM#400
The game is heavily instanced, phased whatever.

I just find it amusing you picked up on cyrodil, as that is the one single zone in the game that isn't instanced.
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