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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » BSC Stealth Speculation

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65 posts found
  Mortify

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 96

4/22/13 4:24:08 AM#21

I want stealth like it was in DAoC. I had fun as an infiltrator, had fun as a caster, had fun as a tank, and had fun as a cleric.

 

Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur

  Daimonion69

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 29

4/22/13 8:13:31 AM#22

I just have to throw in an idea, not considering balance etc.

 

There could be a "invisibility" wizard spell. Either for self use, or to cast it on others.

Of course such stuff needs heavy drawbacks... like caster can not move, limited range, invisible char can not attack...

 

 

It just came to my mind. Maybe the idea is total crap, but it it might be worth to spend some thoughts on it.

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/22/13 8:55:32 AM#23

Perhaps something like an ability to become invisible or mostly so while standing still, but increasingly more visible the faster you move.  Perhaps breaking entirely if you move too quickly while someone is looking in your direction within a certain range.

 

That would force stealthers to act stealthy if they dont want to be seen while still giving them the ability to be invisible.  Would also create a high skill cap for the best stealthers to stay hidden while sneaking into a besieged keep or the like.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 11:44:34 AM#24

There was never anything like the fear / anticipation of a stealther lurking around waiting for their prime opportunity to strike you at the Mile gates.

NOTHING LIKE IT EVER. Removing stealthers like they were in daoc from this game will be a huge mistake, and i'm sad to see them do it. Minor balancing of openings is an easy fix to most whiners, removing them completely will be a mistake. We shall see what his "new uniqe COOL crazy new system" is, however i'm very concerned the way he's expressed his personal distaste for stealthers.

More proof whiners driving the direction of games :'( <--- sad face and tears.

ps. This coming from someone who played 99% of games with stealthers as a visible.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/22/13 12:21:45 PM#25
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

There was never anything like the fear / anticipation of a stealther lurking around waiting for their prime opportunity to strike you at the Mile gates.

NOTHING LIKE IT EVER. Removing stealthers like they were in daoc from this game will be a huge mistake, and i'm sad to see them do it. Minor balancing of openings is an easy fix to most whiners, removing them completely will be a mistake. We shall see what his "new uniqe COOL crazy new system" is, however i'm very concerned the way he's expressed his personal distaste for stealthers.

More proof whiners driving the direction of games :'( <--- sad face and tears.

ps. This coming from someone who played 99% of games with stealthers as a visible.

If you just use the instant magical invisbility that lets you run directly at a line of enemies across an open field at noon without being seen, then you have to seriously balance the combat abilities of that class.

 

Do you really just want a weaker fighter with an invisibility spell?

 

Wouldnt it be more interesting to have a very skill based system that allowed for stealthers to have dramatic assasin like moments when played by talented players with good situational awareness?

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 12:52:14 PM#26
Originally posted by Taldier
just use the instant magical invisbility that lets you run directly at a line of enemies across an open field at noon without being seen, then you have to seriously balance the combat abilities of that class.

 

Do you really just want a weaker fighter with an invisibility spell?

 

Wouldnt it be more interesting to have a very skill based system that allowed for stealthers to have dramatic assasin like moments when played by talented players with good situational awareness?

I don't have much desire to play a stealther, but not recognizing the things they add to a players experience is foolish.... A lot of my solo memories involve walking around choke points and DF worrysome I will get jumped by a stealther at any time, made me focus more and get into the game more, felt more real. Btw they don't have to be "weaker" they can be balanced appropriately as long as they arn't stun locking from stealth or 1-2 shotting people. It's not hard to balance stealthers so they're still competitive and fun to play and not OP, but again apparently its easier to remove them then try, I lack understanding of this business case so their "creative" interpretation better not be flawed.

A ton of people enjoy the nature of play perm-stealth allows, people who afk frequently with kids, can afk in stealth and not worry about running back etc. I just don't see how you can disclude it because people cry when they die to a stealther because it's so easy to blame "they popped out of no where" as to why they lost lol.

As per your last comment, I don't understand how I don't desire that.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/22/13 1:36:53 PM#27
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
Originally posted by Taldier
just use the instant magical invisbility that lets you run directly at a line of enemies across an open field at noon without being seen, then you have to seriously balance the combat abilities of that class.

 

Do you really just want a weaker fighter with an invisibility spell?

 

Wouldnt it be more interesting to have a very skill based system that allowed for stealthers to have dramatic assasin like moments when played by talented players with good situational awareness?

I don't have much desire to play a stealther, but not recognizing the things they add to a players experience is foolish.... A lot of my solo memories involve walking around choke points and DF worrysome I will get jumped by a stealther at any time, made me focus more and get into the game more, felt more real. Btw they don't have to be "weaker" they can be balanced appropriately as long as they arn't stun locking from stealth or 1-2 shotting people. It's not hard to balance stealthers so they're still competitive and fun to play and not OP, but again apparently its easier to remove them then try, I lack understanding of this business case so their "creative" interpretation better not be flawed.

A ton of people enjoy the nature of play perm-stealth allows, people who afk frequently with kids, can afk in stealth and not worry about running back etc. I just don't see how you can disclude it because people cry when they die to a stealther because it's so easy to blame "they popped out of no where" as to why they lost lol.

As per your last comment, I don't understand how I don't desire that.

You seemed to be firmly against any deviation whatsoever from the "push a button = instant perfect invisibility", which is pretty much the most simplistic version of 'stealth' anyone could come up with and definitely the opposite of "skill based".

 

Most people arent asking for "no stealthers".  Heck I'd like to play one.  Just "more scout/assassin, less magical invisible pixie".  Staying hidden should be a skill, not just something that happens when you press a button.

  Betaguy

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2647

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/22/13 1:38:40 PM#28
Originally posted by Tierless

It's been a while since I got one of these going. So, what does everyone think the BSC stealth idea might be?

I was thinking that "stealth" might actually not be class based, but rather a skill every class has that can be used every so often but with major consequences.

 I don't like to deal in what if's, only absolutes. You can always wait to see what they plan on doing, just a suggestion.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 1:43:49 PM#29
Originally posted by Taldier
 

You seemed to be firmly against any deviation whatsoever from the "push a button = instant perfect invisibility", which is pretty much the most simplistic version of 'stealth' anyone could come up with and definitely the opposite of "skill based".

 

Most people arent asking for "no stealthers", just "more scout/assassin, less magical invisible pixie".

A little bit yea, because your other deviations arn't forms of stealth, they are just camoflauge. Many people play games for the magic ability of stealth, changing that ruins that demographic and i dislike alienating that part of a game.

I don't understand how its the opposide of "skill based". I enjoy the wow, daoc mechanics of stealth minus the stun locking / 1-2 shot opening abilities. I'm not going to fight with you again about my opinions lol, but until I see a system that you claim work at all then i'll be skeptical and you should too lol.

Don't see whats wrong with magical invisble pixie? why is it wrong there is an ability that makes you invisible in a game where you call down firestorms with your hands? like it makes no sense... the only logical reason for these people to complain is because they die and its frustrating for them...

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/22/13 1:50:51 PM#30
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
...

Don't see whats wrong with magical invisble pixie? why is it wrong there is an ability that makes you invisible in a game where you call down firestorms with your hands? like it makes no sense... the only logical reason for these people to complain is because they die and its frustrating for them...

Except every single game so far has explained away this amazing feat of being able to stare you right in the face in the middle of a sunny day while remaining completely invisible by saying: "He's hiding... because umm.. he wears lighter armor.. so he's really good at hiding...yeah..".

 

If being stealthy is a core part of my class, I'd prefer if its something in which I can differentiate myself from other players that play that class.  If we all have the same one button that always works perfectly no matter what you do while youre invisible, thats not "being stealthy".

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 2:01:04 PM#31
Originally posted by Taldier
 

Except every single game so far has explained away this amazing feat of being able to stare you right in the face in the middle of a sunny day while remaining completely invisible by saying: "He's hiding... because umm.. he wears lighter armor.. so he's really good at hiding...yeah..".

 

If being stealthy is a core part of my class, I'd prefer if its something in which I can differentiate myself from other players that play that class.  If we all have the same one button that always works perfectly no matter what you do while youre invisible, thats not "being stealthy".

This argument makes no sense. You're in a magical world where people hurl fireballs and wield swords for 8 hours swinging that not even arnold could carry for more than a hour. Like it's so annoying hearing people complain about this because it makes no sense, you're in a magical world where ANYTHING can be, choosing to pick this one out is nothing more than an excuse for not liking dieing to them. This excuse has to go away, because whatever someone says behind it is Bullshit if this is the basis of their arguement. When it makes sense you can do anything that you're character can do in a video game then you can move down this path, but those games are called FPS shooters.

There is a lot that differentiates yourself from other players that play stealthers, at least in any game i've played... Bad stealthers are horrible and were easy to kill, good stealthers made names for themselves and were feared. Seeing a good stealther death spam somewhere and then venturing in that area was inheritently dangerous and knowing that going into that made the suspense that much more intense.

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2061

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/22/13 2:19:34 PM#32

Stealth isn't magical, though. But I can see why developers use the "invisible" type stealth since it's going to be difficult to do it well from a gameplay perspective otherwise.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 3:06:05 PM#33
How is it not magical? It's a magical ability in every game I've played...
Silly comment try again...

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/22/13 3:12:13 PM#34
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
How is it not magical? It's a magical ability in every game I've played...
Silly comment try again...

Now thats a new argument.  Youre saying you've never played a game where there was a difference between scouts and mages?  In the vast majority of fantasy games, scouts/rogues are not magical.  That was the point I was alluding to earlier.

  poisonman

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 59

4/22/13 3:46:30 PM#35

I know I've mentioned it before in other threads but it falls right in line with Mark's vision for a BSC idea.

I could imagine a cool system using disguises and / with a possible short duration "invisible" stealth (like warhammer) if needed or desired, would have a kinda assassin's creed like feel to it or something like that.

Also sounds like they are planning a different camouflage system built along side of it as well, which can be influenced by distance, shadow , decor, movement, etc.

Which could be used for both stealther / assassin type classes as well as archer / scout like classes.

Would make it more tactical and "realistic", could be a cool system, where you become invisible not because no one can see you but because your blending in with the environment, disguised, or just not being noticed till the time you strike.

But of course there is always the meta game, where if your disguise or stealth skills aren't high enough certain classes like enemy assassin / archer classes or possibly other classes with a high enough "perception" can see through it. I'm sure there is a lot of fun things you can do here.

It would be a lot of deception and misdirection, could be interesting.

It would be more like Social Cloaking /  Disguise Mastery instead of Invisibility. So you would be more like Batman / Assassin's Creed instead of being like the Predator.

Invisible steath is the solution in just about every MMO, wouldn't it be nice to try something new, different, unique, etc.. ?

Can't wait to see what Mark actually came up with though, hope he annouces it soon!

There really is tons of different things you could do other than the same old, same old, invisible stealth from every other MMO out there.  

You knew I wouldn't be able to resist this thread :-P

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  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

4/22/13 3:54:42 PM#36
Originally posted by Tierless

 


This is the only stealther quote I found.

"What is a stealther? Are they supposed to be ghosts? Some say they should just be transparent. Nobody ever believed they were BSC. Nobody ever knew them or saw anybody that ever played directly with them, but to hear Jacobs tell it, anybody could have been a stealther. You never knew. That was their power. The greatest trick the stealthers ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist."

Stealthers should have to limp all day, then put on sunglasses and hop in a limo when the sun goes down.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, why didn't I ever make a Valkyn SB named Verbal Kint? That's sort of awesome.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 5:11:28 PM#37
Originally posted by Taldier
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
How is it not magical? It's a magical ability in every game I've played...
Silly comment try again...

Now thats a new argument.  Youre saying you've never played a game where there was a difference between scouts and mages?  In the vast majority of fantasy games, scouts/rogues are not magical.  That was the point I was alluding to earlier.

No i'm not, stop grasping at straws... I'm saying you're playing a game in a magical world, where all classes have access to magical abilities ... i'm referenced the mage comment shooting fireballs because you claim a stealther can't have magic ability, in a world where a mage shoots fireballs... whos to say that stealthers don't have an ability to disappear to their enemies ? like come on...

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/22/13 7:38:21 PM#38
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
Originally posted by Taldier
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
How is it not magical? It's a magical ability in every game I've played...
Silly comment try again...

Now thats a new argument.  Youre saying you've never played a game where there was a difference between scouts and mages?  In the vast majority of fantasy games, scouts/rogues are not magical.  That was the point I was alluding to earlier.

No i'm not, stop grasping at straws... I'm saying you're playing a game in a magical world, where all classes have access to magical abilities ... i'm referenced the mage comment shooting fireballs because you claim a stealther can't have magic ability, in a world where a mage shoots fireballs... whos to say that stealthers don't have an ability to disappear to their enemies ? like come on...

Umm... the lore of all the same fantasy games that use that simplistic stealth mechanic?

 

Looks like youre the one grasping at straws.  All the rogues in other games apparently carry around magic crystals that let them become invisible.  Thats why the skill is always called "hiding" or "stealth"...

 

Why dont the warriors just do it too if its magic that any random cutpurse can apparently learn?

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2440

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

4/22/13 7:45:43 PM#39
I think it should be a camoflage skill for all the classes. No more completely invisible, just a suit you can flip over to to blend into the terrain you're near, snow, forest, plains, etc. and if you're moving you can be seen as moving through the terrain, but if you're still you blend in and harder to detect. You'd be giving up your armor and protection to be able to blend though. Can't have it all.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

4/22/13 8:09:08 PM#40
What are you even taking about taldier??
Why can a Wizard cast different spells than a theurg?
Oh ya because its a game and that class has those abilities available to them? Good god you make no sense

Ridiculous excuses lol

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

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