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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The problem with MMOs these days is developers are making games and not virtual worlds.

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329 posts found
  vulkanxx

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 15

4/20/13 12:22:00 PM#141
The "problem" is they are paying asshats 40k a year when they should be making 12k .. I say kill them all....
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/20/13 12:33:25 PM#142
Originally posted by Phelcher 

You know very little behind the working and business dealing of what makes a MMORPG run.

 BEFORE ANY MMORPG is built, the developers have to decide on what type of game it is going to be, because the servers that run their gameworld will have to house their world. That decision is not reversable and 2 year into the project, to build new net-code, server structure, etc... would just cost too much and the game would implode...

(It happened with WISH & Shadowbane^)

So, the cost and type of server structure DICTATES the type of game you have. Dictates everything about how the game will be developed and how it will unfold. 

Cheap servers.... cheap game.    Again, open world games requires server structures that can be 10x higher cost than instanced games. 

Today, I can build a cheap instanced game similiar to Allods in a few years and make a quick few million... while not caring one biit about any of my customers, because any WoW'tard will buy a few trinkets in my game. I don't even care if thew game only last 9 months... so long as I get 2~4% of the 10 million wow refugees to try it...     I AM PAID..!

So server structure determines how cheap the game will be, what features can be implamented and over-all zeal of the development krew driving the game. 

1. I've worked in the games industry 12 years.  So yeah I actually know quite a lot about what decisions go into making a game (MMORPG or otherwise).

2. Preproduction design decisions exist, yes.  They're constrained by technology, yes. But within those constraints is a massive amount of flexibility, so hopefully you're not implying early MMORPGs were dull empty worlds due to tech reasons.  They were clearly designed with intent.

3. Let me get this straight: you think developing MMORPGs is cheap, and even without caring about your customers it will be profitable?  Do you also believe all developers drive solid gold humvees and no game companies ever go out of business?  How can we have a reasonable discussion if this is the kind of stuff you're saying?  Do you actually want to be educated, or are you just venting angrily?  Normally ignorance at least carries the benefit of bliss.

  User Deleted
4/20/13 12:36:35 PM#143

Lets for arguments sake they build an MMO in which there are no post signs telling you where to go and what to do, you basically have to trial and error your way around to discover them.  Some people like the discovery process... problem is, by the time the game goes live there will be 6 wiki pages up telling them exactly when, where, and how to do everything in game.  So in essence, that sort of design doesn't exist because the beta testers blab everything about the game before it even ships.  Just do a web search on any title and tell me there isn't a playbook for every one of them by launch day.

 

Quite frankly I am surprised that they haven't just skipped the whole world part and just create instances and be done with it.  If end game is all that matters, why even bother with anything before it?  People seem perfectly happy farming the same damn instances non-stop for a year... certainly easier to keep pushing out iLvl upgrades and add more instances... just change a few things here and there and bam, you have another dungeon for them to grind.  All they want is the next level of gear, that's it... nothing else really matters as long as their character is progressing on that tread mill.

  vulkanxx

Novice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 15

4/20/13 2:05:40 PM#144
Originally posted by pmiles

Lets for arguments sake they build an MMO in which there are no post signs telling you where to go and what to do, you basically have to trial and error your way around to discover them.  Some people like the discovery process... problem is, by the time the game goes live there will be 6 wiki pages up telling them exactly when, where, and how to do everything in game.  So in essence, that sort of design doesn't exist because the beta testers blab everything about the game before it even ships.  Just do a web search on any title and tell me there isn't a playbook for every one of them by launch day.

 

Quite frankly I am surprised that they haven't just skipped the whole world part and just create instances and be done with it.  If end game is all that matters, why even bother with anything before it?  People seem perfectly happy farming the same damn instances non-stop for a year... certainly easier to keep pushing out iLvl upgrades and add more instances... just change a few things here and there and bam, you have another dungeon for them to grind.  All they want is the next level of gear, that's it... nothing else really matters as long as their character is progressing on that tread mill.

Agree.. but we have failure like wow and trion that cant even do that!

  jesteralways

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 689

4/20/13 2:42:33 PM#145
Originally posted by vulkanxx
Originally posted by pmiles

Lets for arguments sake they build an MMO in which there are no post signs telling you where to go and what to do, you basically have to trial and error your way around to discover them.  Some people like the discovery process... problem is, by the time the game goes live there will be 6 wiki pages up telling them exactly when, where, and how to do everything in game.  So in essence, that sort of design doesn't exist because the beta testers blab everything about the game before it even ships.  Just do a web search on any title and tell me there isn't a playbook for every one of them by launch day.

 

Quite frankly I am surprised that they haven't just skipped the whole world part and just create instances and be done with it.  If end game is all that matters, why even bother with anything before it?  People seem perfectly happy farming the same damn instances non-stop for a year... certainly easier to keep pushing out iLvl upgrades and add more instances... just change a few things here and there and bam, you have another dungeon for them to grind.  All they want is the next level of gear, that's it... nothing else really matters as long as their character is progressing on that tread mill.

Agree.. but we have failure like wow and trion that cant even do that!

failure? right, show us a game with at least 2 million regular paid customer and then come back to talk about failure.

i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  Vigiliance

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 209

4/20/13 2:49:44 PM#146
Originally posted by vulkanxx
Originally posted by pmiles

Lets for arguments sake they build an MMO in which there are no post signs telling you where to go and what to do, you basically have to trial and error your way around to discover them.  Some people like the discovery process... problem is, by the time the game goes live there will be 6 wiki pages up telling them exactly when, where, and how to do everything in game.  So in essence, that sort of design doesn't exist because the beta testers blab everything about the game before it even ships.  Just do a web search on any title and tell me there isn't a playbook for every one of them by launch day.

 

Quite frankly I am surprised that they haven't just skipped the whole world part and just create instances and be done with it.  If end game is all that matters, why even bother with anything before it?  People seem perfectly happy farming the same damn instances non-stop for a year... certainly easier to keep pushing out iLvl upgrades and add more instances... just change a few things here and there and bam, you have another dungeon for them to grind.  All they want is the next level of gear, that's it... nothing else really matters as long as their character is progressing on that tread mill.

Agree.. but we have failure like wow and trion that cant even do that!

Yea and I think this speaks to the players more then the design though. Even if those guides are written by a few beta testers into a wiki, or a guide posted  on some website, its the players that seek them out. That really speaks to the mentality of the players. If I enter a new MMO, and I don't immediately find the objective for a quest, my mind set isn't okay hit Alt+Tab and google this quest. I like to explore and venture into new areas, reread the quest to make sure I didn't take anything out of context etc, but I think players like my self are the minority or at least modern day players don't prefer that they find it themselves.

I do. I want to do it my self, if I find it, I accomplished something. Reading a guide to me isn't an accomplishment, even if its something really mundane and old like, go find Mankirk's wife, or find whatever X many basic things and bring them back to me, talk to so and so. However it feels like the majority of players in modern times want to have a quest helper built into the interface, they don't want to spend more time then they deem neccessary to complete said quest and if they have to spend it they'd rather "cheat" and read a guide.

 

 

  aranha

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/10/03
Posts: 171

4/20/13 3:20:16 PM#147

The WoW numbers are very missleading. Any game that is decent can keep numbers like that if they did what WoW did upon release.

The sheer fact that Blizzard spent 24 million dollars in just adds and commercials before it was released is nuts. They spent more then other companies spent for their whole production on just adds!

WoW is a good game but it wouldnt even have close to the numbers they have if it wasnt for the millions of dollars they spend on reaching out to get new customers.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/20/13 4:05:20 PM#148
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Phelcher 

You know very little behind the working and business dealing of what makes a MMORPG run.

 BEFORE ANY MMORPG is built, the developers have to decide on what type of game it is going to be, because the servers that run their gameworld will have to house their world. That decision is not reversable and 2 year into the project, to build new net-code, server structure, etc... would just cost too much and the game would implode...

(It happened with WISH & Shadowbane^)

So, the cost and type of server structure DICTATES the type of game you have. Dictates everything about how the game will be developed and how it will unfold. 

Cheap servers.... cheap game.    Again, open world games requires server structures that can be 10x higher cost than instanced games. 

Today, I can build a cheap instanced game similiar to Allods in a few years and make a quick few million... while not caring one biit about any of my customers, because any WoW'tard will buy a few trinkets in my game. I don't even care if thew game only last 9 months... so long as I get 2~4% of the 10 million wow refugees to try it...     I AM PAID..!

So server structure determines how cheap the game will be, what features can be implamented and over-all zeal of the development krew driving the game. 

1. I've worked in the games industry 12 years.  So yeah I actually know quite a lot about what decisions go into making a game (MMORPG or otherwise).

2. Preproduction design decisions exist, yes.  They're constrained by technology, yes. But within those constraints is a massive amount of flexibility, so hopefully you're not implying early MMORPGs were dull empty worlds due to tech reasons.  They were clearly designed with intent.

3. Let me get this straight: you think developing MMORPGs is cheap, and even without caring about your customers it will be profitable?  Do you also believe all developers drive solid gold humvees and no game companies ever go out of business?  How can we have a reasonable discussion if this is the kind of stuff you're saying?  Do you actually want to be educated, or are you just venting angrily?  Normally ignorance at least carries the benefit of bliss.

 

Odd, now that you claim experience in the field, you've changed your idealogy..?

 

Preproduction cost millions...  if you design a game to have zones walls and zoning, you cannot later make the decision to make it Open World (& have all the benifits that go with it). You are off your rocker if you think so.

 

So when you are in PREPRODUCTION, is when you decide if your game is going to be a premium game, charging premium dollars to keep your Open World up...  or, free to play, keeping your inexpensive zones/themepark game open.

It is 100% directly related to your severs what game you intend on offering to the people. What server you design in beta, is the same server limitation that will exist 2 years later. That is the limitation of the developer, is his budget.

How can u not understand this.. u think each dev given $40 million uses it as wisely?  That they all chose open world servers, instead of cash cow instancing? That is why it is sooooo easy to make a MMO today and why there are so many... even you with 12 years claimed experience, you don't think Des take the $40million and use it cheaply for higher upfront profits, instead over the year revenues?

 

 

Lastly, Server technology/net-code has gotten so cheap, that any premium game can use Open World design, yet greedy dev's keep going the 1999 route of zones & instancing..  thus themepark...   just cash cows using instancing to make millions off arcade players.

I don't think your capable of breaking down pre-production, production and release of a MMORPG... and all that goes into it.

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4852

4/20/13 4:20:22 PM#149

There are already virtual worlds.

If you want a virtual world go play Eve, or Darkfall, or 2nd Life (assuming this is still going). While the concept of virtual worlds is very appealing, most players don't ACTUALLY want one. Look at the first 2 games for example. Now, Eve is fairly popular, but it's mostly because of the PvP. Very few people would play Eve if it wasn't for the hardcore pvp. Same deal with Darkfall. Then you look at the complaints of both games. They're very similar. People hate how much 'nothing' exists in both games. The massive time sinks, grinding for mats for an hour. Large open empty spaces.

These things are necessary if you want an open world. A lot of people here seem to want the benefits of having a virtual world but are ignoring the downsides (and yes there are downsides). For a game to go that route sacrifices do get made. Yes, you get way more freedom, but you also often get a much more empty world (at least at first). After all, for these worlds to exist there needs to be room for them to get populated. If there's PvP, there needs to be enough time sinks to make it costly and risky to get those materials you need in the world.

Most players don't have the time or patience for those kinds of games atm. They want the freedom, but don't want to sacrifice anything to get it. People are also pretty heavily game swapping and less likely to stick around to any given MMO atm.

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

4/20/13 5:22:02 PM#150
Originally posted by vulkanxx
The "problem" is they are paying asshats 40k a year when they should be making 12k .. I say kill them all....

Someone's getting entry-level for their degree. Horrors! Burn the witch!

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/20/13 7:21:43 PM#151
Originally posted by Phelcher 

Odd, now that you claim experience in the field, you've changed your idealogy..?

 Preproduction cost millions...  if you design a game to have zones walls and zoning, you cannot later make the decision to make it Open World (& have all the benifits that go with it). You are off your rocker if you think so. 

So when you are in PREPRODUCTION, is when you decide if your game is going to be a premium game, charging premium dollars to keep your Open World up...  or, free to play, keeping your inexpensive zones/themepark game open.

It is 100% directly related to your severs what game you intend on offering to the people. What server you design in beta, is the same server limitation that will exist 2 years later. That is the limitation of the developer, is his budget.

How can u not understand this.. u think each dev given $40 million uses it as wisely?  That they all chose open world servers, instead of cash cow instancing? That is why it is sooooo easy to make a MMO today and why there are so many... even you with 12 years claimed experience, you don't think Des take the $40million and use it cheaply for higher upfront profits, instead over the year revenues? 

Lastly, Server technology/net-code has gotten so cheap, that any premium game can use Open World design, yet greedy dev's keep going the 1999 route of zones & instancing..  thus themepark...   just cash cows using instancing to make millions off arcade players.

I don't think your capable of breaking down pre-production, production and release of a MMORPG... and all that goes into it.

1. Maybe you'll clarify how I "changed my ideology" later.

2. A zoned themepark is still an open world game.  It's a more popular, thus more profitable, type of open world game than a virtual world (which is light on the gameplay, and thus light on players.)

3. Instances are used for a similar reason: instanced gameplay is more fun, and since these devs earn money based on whether they're providing a fun experience to players they're interested in providing that type of gameplay in addition to the open world gameplay.  Some instance-only games exist (and are profitable for the same reasons,) but we're not talking about those because we're talking about MMORPGs (which implies players in a large shared space.)

4. Devs are "greedy" insofar as they see like 10 major game companies going out of business these last 12 months and are interested in continuing to eat.  Thus, they try to make busines decisions which make them money.  One such decision is that when you're in the game business you sell fun games.  Without fun, your product has nothing and you starve.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/20/13 7:33:35 PM#152


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by koboldfodder When SWG tanked and WOW was massive, any sane executive would not spend a single dime on a sandbox type game.   
The funny thing, SWG tanked only after becoming a WoW clone. Any sane executive would have dug deep into how the market works instead of just shitting out WoW clones. Sadly, no AAA MMOs have been run by sane executives.
 Others say SWG was tanking and bleeding badly before it switched and was the reason for the switch.  I couldn't say, I only lasted a few months in it and found it really quite dull.



It just never lived up to the expectations of Sony executives and it was also outperformed by other games that released during its lifetime. The other games were more theme park games so it certainly looks like developers have taken the idea to heart that sandbox games are not as successful commercial as their theme park counterparts.

I don't think it's true that sandbox = world and game = theme park though. Skyrim is very much an open world theme park. It's very successful and the open world development is a big part of why it's successful. WoW is very successful too, and while it doesn't have an open world that the player can impact, it does have a very detailed virtual world for the player to run around in. It just so happens that both of those games also have well developed game play. WoW may or may not fall into that category any longer, I haven't played in a very long time, but when I played, the game play was top notch.

I think while it's true that you can have a project focused on the 'game', with a minimal 'world' and still be successful, I think games that manage to do both, whether they are sandbox or not are the games that reach a much broader audience and have much more appeal to many players. Limiting a game to just a very well developed world will limit the audience and the success of the game.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/21/13 3:24:56 PM#153
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Phelcher 

Odd, now that you claim experience in the field, you've changed your idealogy..?

 Preproduction cost millions...  if you design a game to have zones walls and zoning, you cannot later make the decision to make it Open World (& have all the benifits that go with it). You are off your rocker if you think so. 

So when you are in PREPRODUCTION, is when you decide if your game is going to be a premium game, charging premium dollars to keep your Open World up...  or, free to play, keeping your inexpensive zones/themepark game open.

It is 100% directly related to your severs what game you intend on offering to the people. What server you design in beta, is the same server limitation that will exist 2 years later. That is the limitation of the developer, is his budget.

How can u not understand this.. u think each dev given $40 million uses it as wisely?  That they all chose open world servers, instead of cash cow instancing? That is why it is sooooo easy to make a MMO today and why there are so many... even you with 12 years claimed experience, you don't think Des take the $40million and use it cheaply for higher upfront profits, instead over the year revenues? 

Lastly, Server technology/net-code has gotten so cheap, that any premium game can use Open World design, yet greedy dev's keep going the 1999 route of zones & instancing..  thus themepark...   just cash cows using instancing to make millions off arcade players.

I don't think your capable of breaking down pre-production, production and release of a MMORPG... and all that goes into it.

1. Maybe you'll clarify how I "changed my ideology" later.

2. A zoned themepark is still an open world game.  It's a more popular, thus more profitable, type of open world game than a virtual world (which is light on the gameplay, and thus light on players.)

3. Instances are used for a similar reason: instanced gameplay is more fun, and since these devs earn money based on whether they're providing a fun experience to players they're interested in providing that type of gameplay in addition to the open world gameplay.  Some instance-only games exist (and are profitable for the same reasons,) but we're not talking about those because we're talking about MMORPGs (which implies players in a large shared space.)

4. Devs are "greedy" insofar as they see like 10 major game companies going out of business these last 12 months and are interested in continuing to eat.  Thus, they try to make busines decisions which make them money.  One such decision is that when you're in the game business you sell fun games.  Without fun, your product has nothing and you starve.

 

Lulz..^  u playing games?

 

Open World means: zoneless...      without zones walls, a developer cannat make 2 cities right next to each other, then make a zone wall+ forest, so it takes 20 minutes to walk around..

 

You are mistaken seamless, to mean zoneless.. (?) they is different alltogether. You claim to be part of the industry, yet you (again) illustrate you know very little of the basic types of games and their outlaying technology.

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20703

4/21/13 8:27:40 PM#154
Originally posted by WW4BW
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by WW4BW

But you have no basis for saying that.

 

If we don't have basis for stating something excessively obvious like, "People don't want to buy a game and then be forced to stare at a spellbook for 10 minutes of non-gameplay," what the hell can we say?

 

Of ocuse there is a basis of saying that. EQ got rid of the "staring at spell book for 10 min" .. didn't it? You think they did that randomly? You don't think people complained? I complained.

And if you believe there is a market for players to "stare at spell book for 10 min" as gameplay, feel free to invest your money and/or your career into it. I highly doubt even you (WW4BW) would do that.

What I was getting at was that I certainly never had to stare at my spell book for 10 minutes.

And that I never had more than 2 groups ahead of mine for anything and that was rare.

I could be wrong about the 10 minutes. It was a long time ago and I was probably too busy chatting  to notice it if it was 10 minutes. I've tried looking it up, but I couldnt find any info on it other than "a while".

I far more vividly remember how long it took me to figure out the layout of Kelethin Or how happy I was when I got some "magic" boots so I could atleast kick a will'o'wisp.

Anyways, I like it when thing arent just handed to me. 

You are wrong about the 10 min. I was there. The wait was horrible. I remembered. Horrible game design and if you also remember, they took it AWAY. If they change it, you know why ... and certainly NOT because it is popular.

Other horrible stuff ... long boring boat rides (from the Erudite island to Qeynos .. anyone remembers). How about camping for 6 hours when you get to kill the boss 3 times?

Figuring things out? You don't know about those EQ map & strategy sites? They are as prevalent in EQ time as today.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/21/13 8:55:16 PM#155

[mod edit]

He doesn't understand how wrong he is...   bcuz of choice... he had to stair at a spell book for 10m. It was by his OWN choice.  Then, he complains about the path he took.. 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

4/21/13 10:59:52 PM#156

 


Originally posted by Phelcher
[mod edit]

 

He doesn't understand how wrong he is...   bcuz of choice... he had to stair at a spell book for 10m. It was by his OWN choice.  Then, he complains about the path he took.. 




He's making note of developers noticing that players don't want to hurry up and wait. He wasn't the only player, otherwise it never would have changed. The players knew that what they were doing was stretching out the time it took to get things done, and therefore stretch out the amount of time players would pay for the game.

In comparison, Skyrim has a very open and dynamic world. How much time was spent staring at the screen waiting for something to complete, where there was nothing else happening? I would be willing to bet there was little or no equivalent to staring at a progress meter, yet Skyrim seems to have a well developed virtual world. Most waiting in MMOs is just that, waiting for the clock to tick by so developers can charge a little more money. It isn't necessary for the virtual world to be well done.

 

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7039

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

4/21/13 11:28:10 PM#157

Did you know that a game has no predictable outcome?These pieces of software code do,they are very predictable,the only thing that is unpredicatable is you the gamer.

They setup a roller coaster ride with very few twists and curves,mostly straight ahead with a definite predictable ending.

Then they expand that ride,call it expansions,the cost is just slightly less than the full ride but takes 1/10th the effort to add those few extra rails.

The hook is not fun,the hook is that it is very easy to get on that ride,but once you have invested a lot of time,you feel compelled to continue that ride.You soon ask yourself why,why am i still coming to  this same ride with a few extra rails.I think for most of us ,we really don't know,it becomes habit,perhaps boredom,anything is better than nothing right?

Then we become defensive,protecting the idiocy .We understand the flaws of our passion for these games,yet we ridicule others for pointing them out to us.

Step back,remind yourself that the real world can never be replaced by a virtual world,nothing inside of games is important.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20703

4/22/13 10:03:54 PM#158
Originally posted by lizardbones


In comparison, Skyrim has a very open and dynamic world. How much time was spent staring at the screen waiting for something to complete, where there was nothing else happening? I would be willing to bet there was little or no equivalent to staring at a progress meter, yet Skyrim seems to have a well developed virtual world. Most waiting in MMOs is just that, waiting for the clock to tick by so developers can charge a little more money. It isn't necessary for the virtual world to be well done.

 

Zero. If you visit a place before, click on a button and you telepor there. If there is a shop closed, click a button and time advances.

Waiting and nothing happens is bad game design, and not entertaining. Back in EQ days, that is what you have to endure if you want to play an online RPG with your friend (unless you want to play UO, which is worse).

It is great that no devs will go that path again. And if some niche devs happen to try again, i am glad there are plenty of alternatives and i can just ignore them.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/23/13 2:03:28 AM#159
Originally posted by Morcotulcon

I agree with the OP, but also with some of the things other people say in this thread.

I'm not very active in this site as I used to, but reading this post I felt the need to give my opinion.

 

Although I totally agree with the problem of giving too many rewards to players, and although I also agree that MMOs today are more of a Game and less then a Virtual World, I think MMORPGs were stale for so long that all the changes right now are the main reasons why players feel so "lost" in the genre. They don't know what MMORPG's stand for anymore, at least in terms of what to expect in their gameplay experience.

The genre is growing steadily with much more players than it had before, in many more games than before, but along with this there are more and more games looking to give motivational and rewarding experiences, because those are the ones that attract the new players each day - yes, I said "day", because games are now on a competitive level where each day might represent the gain and loss of players to the direct competition, and if only 1 day can be a problem to the game itself with a downtime service, a week or a month might be the end of the success of many goals they devs had in mind by giving the wrong updates.

The problem with this is, with so many motivational experiences and rewards, people start getting tired of them and don't know what to do with them all. Many of those rewards become things with no value and the real valuable ones are only possible if you are "a true hardcore" (aka have no life or spend real money) or if you have A LOT OF LUCK.

They also try to give many experiences in terms of different gameplay, but then they create even more rewards and motivational experiences that in less then a month will become "meh" in the middle of so many things to do and get.

In the end, there are so many MMOs creating so many features while looking for the "special one" that motivates all their player base, that all of them end up having the same things over and over again with different skins and with an excessive amount of rewards with no value at all.

 

The Virtual Worlds the OP talked about is something many MMORPGs are trying to do right now, but it just gets past players when they see the giant list of things to do and get. With so many features, missions, rewards, etc., the players forget all about the Virtual World and start thinking about the Game - to have fun and become good player - and after a while they forget about the Game and start to become focused in best rewards and in beeing the best. When that happens, the MMO is not fun anymore, it's just a "job" (or a filler) untill the next MMO comes again.

And then, the cycle repeats itself.

 

But It seems we are getting somewhere. To me, it seems each new game is trying to get both of those concepts, a Virtual World and a Game, and with this we might see a final change in the genre in terms of definition.

I don't know if the gerne should be separated in 2 or 3 genres, but to me it seems games will get to a place where the games are finally labelled in the correct genre again, like they were before as MMORPGs.

 

Thank you for taking your time to write that..    (Kinder words than mine.)

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5736

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

4/23/13 2:49:42 AM#160
Originally posted by Phelcher
Originally posted by Axehilt
 

Open World means: zoneless...      without zones walls, a developer cannat make 2 cities right next to each other, then make a zone wall+ forest, so it takes 20 minutes to walk around..

 

You are mistaken seamless, to mean zoneless.. (?) they is different alltogether. You claim to be part of the industry, yet you (again) illustrate you know very little of the basic types of games and their outlaying technology.

Ok, lets get one thing straight: Zoning is the industry standard technique to handle players and loading assets. Pretty much all MMOs use them regardless of being entirely open world or not. World of Warcraft is zoned. Vanguard is zoned. Eve Online is zoned.

People use the term "seamless" when they refer to the fact that you can move through these zones "seamlessly" i.e. without a loading screen.

I think Quizzical would be happy to explain the technology further, or maybe you should look up some of the threads where he has explained how and why the stuff works the way it works.

Point is, you're wrong or you're intentionally disruptive.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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