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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » 10 people are kicking the guy, guess I should too

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430 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/21/13 1:29:35 PM#121
Originally posted by Anakami

Personally I am waiting for any news about the game as I think we have pretty much exhausted the discussion about why we like certain aspects of the game or why we do not. Whether I will play the game or not still depends on one thing though:

They either allow for an option to play, chat and group with any race (PvE only ofc)/make it so that at least witht he people on your friends list or guild you can group up without restrictions

or they keep their -imo unnecessary- restrictions on PvE and see how many people will buy/play the game regardless

An about this constant DAoC vs ES camp argument...just the last night I was having a nice talk with my friends. We talked about our great experiences within DAoC, watched some nostalgic DAoC videos and shared a lot of fond memories. Then we talked about ESO and lamented the fact that they had to bring a DAoC style mechanic with so many restrictions placed on PvE into a game world where it -imo- does not belong.

So this is kinda ironic. I am a huge DAoC fan and really want a DAoC 2. But I am not happy with what they did to ES even though it has all the DAoC features I loved.

see i see "the restrictions on PVE"

e.g. not just being able to wander off and just find shit to do as WORLD OF WARCRAFT MECHANICS

just read the RPS and Eurogamer previews on the questing.  Thats pure WOW that is nothing like DAOC or TES.  Now if they had actually cloned DAOC as many people are complaining about, the questing would be much more TES like.

  Zeref.Dyver

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/07
Posts: 281

4/21/13 1:32:21 PM#122
People complain and flame because MMO's are currently dead. Everyone seems to have forgotten the great design choices of the past that made these games worth playing in the first place. Until the dev's can get this right and stop rehashing the same old useless, un-entertaining crap, then they are going to be bashed. All there is to it.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3774

4/21/13 1:33:42 PM#123

First a disclaimer for the sensitive: I am not writing this about you. These are just my thoughts after reading this and many other threads here over the past few months...

Some people just have to grow-up and get over themselves. There are all kinds of whiny illogical complaints in this forum that some think that because they managed to get a couple of others to support their position, that makes them true. What am I talking about?

 

1. ESO breaks the TES lore.

This can appear in a variety of ways: TES was not separated into 3 alliances, therefore doing it in ESO is not right... TES required targetting and abilities could miss, ESO has tab-targetting and you need to dodge to make abilities miss... TES had no classes and ESO does... etc.

Guess what. They own the IP. They are writing. They can change it. You are just the player. They have given it more thought than you have... get over yourself. You are not the developer. Zenimax Online is not the evil twin of Bethesda--they are both owned by Zenimax Media. Understand that this means that Zenimax Media owns it all.

Your choice is simple: consume / do not consume. Pick one. "Consume but..." and "do not consume but..." are just whiny pseudo-options.

 

2. The EVIL that is faction lock

I have always played a _____ (insert race here) and my wife always plays a ____ (insert race here) and my best friend always plays ____ (insert race here) so we can't play together if the races are separated.

Grow up. Children, specially toddlers, don't have much ability to compromise. Adults do.

Compromise is the defining characteristic of civilisation. "Rugged Individualism" is not a good thing, it's anti-social selfish behavior taken to the max. It's not admirable. It's pathological.

Is being a Khajiit, who for all practical purposes plays 100% like and Argonian so important to you that you won't play with your best friend over it? Let me say it again: grow the f--k up! Having an adult relationship with a partner, at work...anywhere requires compromise. Being a parent requires compromise.

Learn to behave and learn to play with others like a civilized, social adult.

  dancingstar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 277

4/21/13 1:35:57 PM#124
Originally posted by wowclones
Was the green letters for 420 Day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture) ?

Hmm I was thinking rather http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Green_ink

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/21/13 1:38:45 PM#125

Ironically most of the whiners over point 2 are trying to make the game into yet another bloody wow clone.  And wow has faction lock too, although it serves little purpose in that game.

What they are really after is remove all pvp.  but if they whine about "faction lock" it just sounds better, "faction lock" has such a nice negative sound to it when your trying to set an agenda.  Straight up saying "remove all PVP" makes you sound like a selfish prick, saying "remove faction lock" makes you sound like you are making a stand for "freedom".

I really hope Zenimax don't give in on the faction lock, without faction lock RVR wont work  - look at The Secret World.

Of course these faction lock people know this, its why the campaign for it.  if PVP is a pile of shite they have more chance of getting a ton of endgame tiered raiding hamsterwheel content added.

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 658

4/21/13 1:41:18 PM#126
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

QFT - IMO. But Tabula Rasa fans might be tickled since it seems that a lot of those devs are now fronting what's going into TESO. All 8 Tabula Rasa fans, that is.

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  Lawlmonster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/09
Posts: 944

Take my advice, I'm not using it anyway.

4/21/13 1:44:51 PM#127
Originally posted by Iselin

First a disclaimer for the sensitive: I am not writing this about you.

Is being a Khajiit, who for all practical purposes plays 100% like and Argonian so important to you that you won't play with your best friend over it? Learn to behave and learn to play with others like a civilized, social adult.

I can't be certain, but it sure seems to me like this post was directed at someone.

"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3774

4/21/13 1:58:09 PM#128
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

QFT - IMO. But Tabula Rasa fans might be tickled since it seems that a lot of those devs are now fronting what's going into TESO. All 8 Tabula Rasa fans, that is.

 Whose fault is it for not paying attention and thinking they said black when in fact they said white?

Here's a link to the original Game Informer reveal of the MMO on May 3, 2012: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

Notice the "... player-driven PvP conflict that pits the three player factions against each other in open-world warfare over the province of Cyrodiil and the Emperor's throne itself." part?

Then there were more details right here a few days after that: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6384/ThreeFaction-PVP-a-la-DAOC.html

I guess people who speculated, assumed or fantasized about what TES online would be like may be dissapointed. Those of us who just read and listened to what they were saying have known for almost a year what was coming.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17111

4/21/13 3:27:24 PM#129
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Originally posted by baphamet

people mention they cant go everywhere and do everything but eventually they will be able to go anywhere with the same character, which is a decent compromise.

i honestly only think it becomes an issue if the world is small.

if there areas are huge enough i don't see this as much of an issue for most.

yeah but thats not their agenda.

The agenda is remove all pvp or ghetto it off into crappy little minigames, so they can have a vanilla wow experience

read between the lines.

No the agenda, if one put any thought into it (and if there is even an "agenda") is the desire for the game to be more like the elder scrolls games.

No one ver said anything about wow. Well, except you.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17111

4/21/13 3:31:21 PM#130
Originally posted by Iselin

 


Compromise is the defining characteristic of civilisation. "Rugged Individualism" is not a good thing, it's anti-social selfish behavior taken to the max. It's not admirable. It's pathological.

er, doesn't that knife cut both ways?

What I see here (aside from the compromise that the developers made) are suggestions by some that would allow people their 3 faction war and then allow everyone else to explore the world as a TES game. Except some players are so desirous of a RvRvR game that this compromise is not acceptable to them. They insist it will hurt faction pride when some don't care about faction pride. They just want to play in the Elder Srcolls world.

Especially to those who don't even care about pvp.

Just a thought.

 

  donjuanagain

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 136

4/21/13 3:33:45 PM#131
Maybe its just me but I dont pop off at the mouth about a game I have never played. Reading some articles and seeing some crappy game play footage from someone else just doesnt make my mind up for me to start spouting off how good or how bad the game is going to be. I usually reserve that judgement until after I have had some significant time in the game. 
  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4098

4/21/13 4:22:42 PM#132
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by stragen001

The biggest problem is tab targetting. TESO games have always been first/third person action combat style (cant think of the right word here) and thats what everyone was excited to see in an MMO. Then they said "yeah, we're not doing that"

imho combat was always the weakest part of any TES game... hyrbid gw2 style I think would work well for a game like this but ill save judgement till i get to play it..

Its not so weak once you have the one-handed crossbow mod and sword on other hand playing like van helsing or something lol

  Pyuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 658

4/21/13 4:36:30 PM#133
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

QFT - IMO. But Tabula Rasa fans might be tickled since it seems that a lot of those devs are now fronting what's going into TESO. All 8 Tabula Rasa fans, that is.

 Whose fault is it for not paying attention and thinking they said black when in fact they said white?

Here's a link to the original Game Informer reveal of the MMO on May 3, 2012: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

Notice the "... player-driven PvP conflict that pits the three player factions against each other in open-world warfare over the province of Cyrodiil and the Emperor's throne itself." part?

Then there were more details right here a few days after that: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6384/ThreeFaction-PVP-a-la-DAOC.html

I guess people who speculated, assumed or fantasized about what TES online would be like may be dissapointed. Those of us who just read and listened to what they were saying have known for almost a year what was coming.

Yeah great. Pointless endgame back-and-forth PvP. Sounds like fail, to me. See you on these forums complaining about TESO three months after launch, 'kay buddy? And you will probably be the one rejoicing about the inevitable layoffs that will hit the TESO team once Zeni realizes they've got a SWTOR/Tabula Rasa on their hands. *thumbs-up!*

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1068

4/21/13 5:10:24 PM#134

The OP sorta proposes there's a small cabal here that wants to pervert the glorious design of the game.  I personally think he's got it totally backward.   That there's a small group who likes the very traditional aspect of the mechanical design, and a very large group that is uninterested or unhappy with it.  And I think Zenimax is getting that message in feedback from their various avenues of information, across the broad spectrum of game players.

 

I don't know a soul who's looking forward to this game based on its RvRvR set up.  Every...single....one  is going 'Oooh, Elder Scrolls game!'.   A design based on a pat formula of end game RvR play isn't going to get them to buy this game.  So every developer decision based on that is, generally, of neutral value, and at worst, is a negative.

 

And the 'Game designers know best.....Grow up' argument is kinda ludacrous.   Many, many examples of just the opposite.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1304

4/21/13 5:28:57 PM#135
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
 

 

its not infinitely more, it is 20 minutes more than zero.  

We don't usually calculate "greater" or "less than" using probability and statistics as you did.  The fault being it can have absurd consequences.  If you do it that way bad things like P(x) > P(y) therefore x > y  ->  so P(x) = P(y) therefore x = y -> P(7) = P(8) therefore 7 = 8.

In conclusion, Vorthanion may be correct that 20 is a hell of a lot more, if and only if 20 minutes is a hell of a lot.

imo it is not.  it is just 20 minutes more.  i don't put much faith in either person's opinion of the game based on 0 minutes or 20 minutes.

 

Foolish me for not knowing that someone would pick up on the maths and go on about it for no particular reason relevant to the thread.

Anyway!

My point was, because Nan likes to deal in absolute statements without any real knowledge, I'd take an absolute statement from someone with 20 miniutes experience over his zero every... single... time...

...ad infinitum you might say...

Furthermore, without so much as 5 seconds of in-game experience to back up a thing he ever states, he then turns that on its head and decries 20 minutes of experience as irrelevant. Entirely missing the ultimate irony of the relative validity his own position being based on as much less than 20 minutes as can possibly be.

 

You misinterpreted my post -- likely my fault for not being clear.  My point was 20 minutes is just 20 minutes and I don't value either posters opinion greatly based on zero or 20 minutes of gameplay.  I understand you value the 20 minute guy's statements more, I just don't.  We have different opinions there on these fellows and that's fine.

Still, I do wish you had kept the original, longer post. 

I learned long ago that how much I enjoy a game has no relation whatsoever to the things people say on this site.  I do like the information I get here but the sum of opinions from the staff and other posters here never really correlate well with how much I enjoy any game.

These problems and issues many are having in this thread, they aren't the same problems and issues that will actually cause those of us who actually buy and play it to not like the game.  They aren't the things that will make many people stop playing the game in frustration.  That will be a different set of problems we will see a month or two after release when we are all familiar with the game on a much more fundamental level.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3774

4/21/13 6:02:38 PM#136
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

QFT - IMO. But Tabula Rasa fans might be tickled since it seems that a lot of those devs are now fronting what's going into TESO. All 8 Tabula Rasa fans, that is.

 Whose fault is it for not paying attention and thinking they said black when in fact they said white?

Here's a link to the original Game Informer reveal of the MMO on May 3, 2012: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

Notice the "... player-driven PvP conflict that pits the three player factions against each other in open-world warfare over the province of Cyrodiil and the Emperor's throne itself." part?

Then there were more details right here a few days after that: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6384/ThreeFaction-PVP-a-la-DAOC.html

I guess people who speculated, assumed or fantasized about what TES online would be like may be dissapointed. Those of us who just read and listened to what they were saying have known for almost a year what was coming.

Yeah great. Pointless endgame back-and-forth PvP. Sounds like fail, to me. See you on these forums complaining about TESO three months after launch, 'kay buddy? And you will probably be the one rejoicing about the inevitable layoffs that will hit the TESO team once Zeni realizes they've got a SWTOR/Tabula Rasa on their hands. *thumbs-up!*

 You forgot "...and then a giant meteor will wipe out all life on earth"

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3774

4/21/13 6:03:51 PM#137
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

 


Compromise is the defining characteristic of civilisation. "Rugged Individualism" is not a good thing, it's anti-social selfish behavior taken to the max. It's not admirable. It's pathological.

er, doesn't that knife cut both ways?

What I see here (aside from the compromise that the developers made) are suggestions by some that would allow people their 3 faction war and then allow everyone else to explore the world as a TES game. Except some players are so desirous of a RvRvR game that this compromise is not acceptable to them. They insist it will hurt faction pride when some don't care about faction pride. They just want to play in the Elder Srcolls world.

Especially to those who don't even care about pvp.

Just a thought.

 

They designed a game a certain way... I like it. No compromise required. We're not co-designing and trying to reach consensus. Their game ... their way. Just wtf is wrong with that?

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3774

4/21/13 6:09:00 PM#138
Originally posted by Arglebargle

The OP sorta proposes there's a small cabal here that wants to pervert the glorious design of the game.  I personally think he's got it totally backward.   That there's a small group who likes the very traditional aspect of the mechanical design, and a very large group that is uninterested or unhappy with it.  And I think Zenimax is getting that message in feedback from their various avenues of information, across the broad spectrum of game players.

 

I don't know a soul who's looking forward to this game based on its RvRvR set up.  Every...single....one  is going 'Oooh, Elder Scrolls game!'.   A design based on a pat formula of end game RvR play isn't going to get them to buy this game.  So every developer decision based on that is, generally, of neutral value, and at worst, is a negative.

 

And the 'Game designers know best.....Grow up' argument is kinda ludacrous.   Many, many examples of just the opposite.

Game designers don't have to know best. For 90% of MMOs today, I pass. No one is taking away your right to decide what you spend your money on. You can hate it.

Trying to change it to suit your personal taste? Making feeble arguments about why your way is better than theirs? Invoking "lore" to try to make your opinion seem righteous? That's a different story.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/21/13 6:09:53 PM#139
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by steuss

People are rightly pissed because the TESO devs basically said, we're gonna make TES a MMO, and everyone was happy, but then people see the actual gameplay and think, "Wtf? this is tab, target, WoW clone bullshit, again. This is NOTHING like TES.

 

I'm pissed. Why aren't you? Are you happy with mediocrity and green text?

QFT - IMO. But Tabula Rasa fans might be tickled since it seems that a lot of those devs are now fronting what's going into TESO. All 8 Tabula Rasa fans, that is.

 Whose fault is it for not paying attention and thinking they said black when in fact they said white?

Here's a link to the original Game Informer reveal of the MMO on May 3, 2012: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/03/june-cover-revealed-the-elder-scrolls-online.aspx

Notice the "... player-driven PvP conflict that pits the three player factions against each other in open-world warfare over the province of Cyrodiil and the Emperor's throne itself." part?

Then there were more details right here a few days after that: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6384/ThreeFaction-PVP-a-la-DAOC.html

I guess people who speculated, assumed or fantasized about what TES online would be like may be dissapointed. Those of us who just read and listened to what they were saying have known for almost a year what was coming.

Yeah great. Pointless endgame back-and-forth PvP. Sounds like fail, to me. See you on these forums complaining about TESO three months after launch, 'kay buddy? And you will probably be the one rejoicing about the inevitable layoffs that will hit the TESO team once Zeni realizes they've got a SWTOR/Tabula Rasa on their hands. *thumbs-up!*

hmmm because the first thing that springs to mind when you think SWTOR is "continuos back and forth PVP"  ?!?!?!?!?!

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/21/13 6:16:45 PM#140
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin

Compromise is the defining characteristic of civilisation. "Rugged Individualism" is not a good thing, it's anti-social selfish behavior taken to the max. It's not admirable. It's pathological.

er, doesn't that knife cut both ways?

What I see here (aside from the compromise that the developers made) are suggestions by some that would allow people their 3 faction war and then allow everyone else to explore the world as a TES game. Except some players are so desirous of a RvRvR game that this compromise is not acceptable to them. They insist it will hurt faction pride when some don't care about faction pride. They just want to play in the Elder Srcolls world.

Especially to those who don't even care about pvp.

Just a thought.

 

 They designed a game a certain way... I like it. No compromise required.

 

Having done this, I have zero expectation of it sinking in and perhaps even seeing this post reported as trolling like all non-troll posts do while the actual trolls remain.

Nothing posted here in defense of DaoC gameplay is going to change the massive amounts of outrage going on across TES related websites nor remove the corporate level worry going on about it. Either the game is changed or heads roll afterwards from the developers right on up to the CEO that has a lot riding on this game and he was lied to that the TES name alone would get the millions of fans to play the game.

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