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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » BSC Stealth Speculation

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65 posts found
  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/20/13 11:53:08 PM#1

It's been a while since I got one of these going. So, what does everyone think the BSC stealth idea might be?

I was thinking that "stealth" might actually not be class based, but rather a skill every class has that can be used every so often but with major consequences.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

4/21/13 12:01:27 AM#2

I doubt it will be available to everyone, althought I suppose that is a possibility. 

My thought was that it would be 100% terrain based... not really "invisibility" but more like a "mimic" ability.  MJ had mentioned the terrain being dynamic and changing over time.  This would lend itself well to a skill which allowed "stealthers" to "mimic" terrain items (trees, bushes, rocks, etc) rather than going invisible.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  grogstorm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 287

If it ain't broke, dont fix it!

4/21/13 1:32:51 AM#3

I love the idea where every class has the skill.  If so, I would like to see the armor someone is wearing affect the quality / duration of the stealth.  Awesome thought.

Grog

  Mortify

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 96

4/21/13 4:06:12 AM#4
what does BSC mean?

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  BeggarKing

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 18

4/21/13 4:19:49 AM#5
Originally posted by Mortify
what does BSC mean?

Bat Sh** Crazy... And I doubt very much all classes get a stealth ability as MJ has shown his preference to pure classes rather than mixing abilities of one into the other. If he makes a stealther then I'm sure it will be pure stealth but we just don't know what his vision of stealth is yet as he clearly wants to change it up from the classic way of doing it. Archers will be different as well  from as best we can deduce from hints here and there making mention of "camouflage " and that camouflage and stealth are different things.

  User Deleted
4/21/13 4:22:46 AM#6
-raises hand- uhhmm... isn't speculating about what stealth system a game might use in 2-3 maybe 4 year's time a bit pointless? I mean unless the team says something definitive wouldn't debate be better withheld for topics which have details released on them? (details which are not tangential btw).
  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1132

4/21/13 5:23:05 AM#7
We know Mark passionately hates stealthers, so I'm guessing the BSC idea is that when you go into stealth your health goes to 1% and when you come out of stealth you get a 1 minute debuff that prevents you from using combat abilities.

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  UOlover

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 331

4/21/13 6:43:04 AM#8
Stealth never killed anyone. It's the other stuff that they add to it that's OP. 
  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2000

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/21/13 7:08:07 AM#9
Ugh, I can just imagine the pain of everyone being a stealther. As if just a few stealthers weren't bad enough :)

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  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

4/21/13 11:34:22 AM#10
Originally posted by meddyck
We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

4/21/13 1:37:37 PM#11

Originally posted by meddyck
We know Mark passionately hates stealthers, so I'm guessing the BSC idea is that when you go into stealth your health goes to 1% and when you come out of stealth you get a 1 minute debuff that prevents you from using combat abilities.

Not hardly. I've just said that I have a love/hate relationship with them and they have, at times, been the bane of my existence. :) I've even played stealthers but not in PvP games and frankly, if I passionately hated stealthing I wouldn't bother putting this much time in thinking about them to try to fit them into CU.

Originally posted by Tumblebutz

Originally posted by meddyck
We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

Stealth for everyone is another BSC idea but it really won't happen in CU. As far as my idea being a departure from stealth in all MMORPGs that I am aware of, yes, it is.

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

4/21/13 1:46:03 PM#12
Mark, I double-dig-dog DARE you to just tell us what it is! GO! ;)

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/21/13 4:05:58 PM#13


Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by meddyck We know Mark passionately hates stealthers, so I'm guessing the BSC idea is that when you go into stealth your health goes to 1% and when you come out of stealth you get a 1 minute debuff that prevents you from using combat abilities.Not hardly. I've just said that I have a love/hate relationship with them and they have, at times, been the bane of my existence. :) I've even played stealthers but not in PvP games and frankly, if I passionately hated stealthing I wouldn't bother putting this much time in thinking about them to try to fit them into CU.

Originally posted by Tumblebutz Originally posted by meddyck We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...
Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread. Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.
Stealth for everyone is another BSC idea but it really won't happen in CU. As far as my idea being a departure from stealth in all MMORPGs that I am aware of, yes, it is.

Perhaps stealth is a suicide mission? You see, a spell as powerful as stealth must be very draining. It probably gives you a short term boost, and a long term drain. Once you hit the stealth timer you are invis (predator style) and your stats jack up but you have X amount of time to kill your opponent before the spell takes it's toll and you run out of steam leaving you briefly weakened?

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4755

4/21/13 4:13:07 PM#14
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Tumblebutz

Originally posted by meddyck
We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

Stealth for everyone is another BSC idea but it really won't happen in CU. As far as my idea being a departure from stealth in all MMORPGs that I am aware of, yes, it is.

Glad to see this MJ.

Imho stealth has always been a crutch in MMO combat, or at best poorly designed. I'd rather either see maps with pleanty of areas you can hide behind / inside, or terrain-specific stealth mechanics.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4755

4/21/13 4:17:42 PM#15
Originally posted by Tierless

Perhaps stealth is a suicide mission? You see, a spell as powerful as stealth must be very draining. It probably gives you a short term boost, and a long term drain. Once you hit the stealth timer you are invis (predator style) and your stats jack up but you have X amount of time to kill your opponent before the spell takes it's toll and you run out of steam leaving you briefly weakened?

Problem with that, as with most stealth mechanics, is you still run into this situation where one class is always either way too strong, or way too weak. Even if they kill themselves with stealth in the way you're describing, from every other player's perspective they're still getting killed before they can really do anything about it. That's just not very fun.

Games have to be pretty careful about stealth mechanics in multiplayer. If you're going to have stealth, it needs a counter, and you need to make stealth classes non-reliant on stealth (so it's a choice, not a crutch). This way stealth doesn't become an automatic 'Iwin button', but rather a tactic you can use against unprepared players.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/21/13 4:30:20 PM#16


Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Tierless Perhaps stealth is a suicide mission? You see, a spell as powerful as stealth must be very draining. It probably gives you a short term boost, and a long term drain. Once you hit the stealth timer you are invis (predator style) and your stats jack up but you have X amount of time to kill your opponent before the spell takes it's toll and you run out of steam leaving you briefly weakened?
Problem with that, as with most stealth mechanics, is you still run into this situation where one class is always either way too strong, or way too weak. Even if they kill themselves with stealth in the way you're describing, from every other player's perspective they're still getting killed before they can really do anything about it. That's just not very fun.

Games have to be pretty careful about stealth mechanics in multiplayer. If you're going to have stealth, it needs a counter, and you need to make stealth classes non-reliant on stealth (so it's a choice, not a crutch). This way stealth doesn't become an automatic 'Iwin button', but rather a tactic you can use against unprepared players.


Good point. I agree. I like battles that have some back and forth, I hate the DPS nuke over stuff.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Wolvan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/04
Posts: 50

4/21/13 8:51:14 PM#17
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
Originally posted by meddyck
We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...

Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread.

Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.

 

 

Emercy,

 

Their was some supposed well known "quotes" back in the day of DAOC that was supposedly MJ ranting about how he hated stealthers (and shadowblades in particular since he played Albion mostly...again supposedly) and was going to nerf them into the ground.  (which he did somewhat heh).

And when I asked about shadowblades at a Percival Player meet at the Mythic HQ's...he ducked and covered and passed it off to Macky.  Who loved Midgard SO much.

Alot of the original quotes was hearsay...people took it as gospel but I don't remember seeing actual proof.  Might have been out their, but its been to long for me to remember.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

 
OP  4/22/13 12:06:35 AM#18


Originally posted by Wolvan

Originally posted by Tumblebutz

Originally posted by meddyck We know Mark passionately hates stealthers...
Really?  How do we know that, again?  Nevermind, don't answer that.  I don't want to derail the thread. Back on topic: I can't possibly imagine everyone will have access to "stealth," even in a watered down form.  I really think the "BSC" part will be in a complete departure from the traditional idea of stealth.
 

 

Emercy,

 

Their was some supposed well known "quotes" back in the day of DAOC that was supposedly MJ ranting about how he hated stealthers (and shadowblades in particular since he played Albion mostly...again supposedly) and was going to nerf them into the ground.  (which he did somewhat heh).

And when I asked about shadowblades at a Percival Player meet at the Mythic HQ's...he ducked and covered and passed it off to Macky.  Who loved Midgard SO much.

Alot of the original quotes was hearsay...people took it as gospel but I don't remember seeing actual proof.  Might have been out their, but its been to long for me to remember.


This is the only stealther quote I found.

"What is a stealther? Are they supposed to be ghosts? Some say they should just be transparent. Nobody ever believed they were BSC. Nobody ever knew them or saw anybody that ever played directly with them, but to hear Jacobs tell it, anybody could have been a stealther. You never knew. That was their power. The greatest trick the stealthers ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist."

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

4/22/13 2:28:00 AM#19

I really don't see why any should have the stealth ability. I mean why roll a rogue then?

 

Aw crap, I just got attacked by a plate guy hiding in the shadows.

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  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/22/13 3:14:53 AM#20

In my opinion, the only stealth worth doing would be to make it in the vein of a MOBA, like League of Legends, where you are concealed under certain circumstances. I do not mean lift it directly from LoL, but the spirit of that system actually makes sense.

I have always had a large problem with classes able to walk across an empty field in broad daylight while fully stealthed. To me, that is not stealth, but invisibility, which are two different things. Stealth is being sneaky, using cover and line of sight to stay hidden, whereas invisibility is actually making your body vanish to the naked eye.

If classes with stealth, or perhaps everyone, could stealth while in shadows, or thick brush, or perhaps under water, I would love to see stealth. If someone is able to use real mechanics to conceal themselves and then waylay me and kill me, great. What I hate is being in a spot where it would make no sense to be ambushed and then get ganked. Or to know some rogue is around me, wait to launch an alpha strike, but being unable to see him because he is not stealthed, but rather invisible.

It goes without saying that the worst type of stealth is the kind that can be popped while the enemy can see you, or, even a bit worse, while in combat with you. These "vanish in a puff of smoke" type of stealths are complete junk.

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