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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Explain this idea of "Immersion" to me.

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209 posts found
  RandomDown

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 147

4/19/13 11:29:39 PM#121
Originally posted by Ortwig
I think one of the earlier posts on this thread hit the mark when it mentioned Frodo teleporting to Mount Doom to drop off the ring.  A big part of "immersion" is the threshold of difficulty and challenge in the world.  We've got this scale between "realism" (within the context of the world) and convenience (efficient gameplay that doesn't bog you down as a player) and finding that  "perfect" (very subjective) balance between the two. 

Well in the context of the world why didn't Gandalf just call in that favor from the Eagles sooner and have them fly Frodo to Mount Doom to drop the ring in? Not a teleporter but that is fast travel and it did exist in the universe as it is utilized in the books at one point.

 

People also keep pointing out "realism" in the most absurd sense. So 1+1 can't equal -8 in a universe where I can conjure fire and lightning and demons out of the very air? Why do they have to use the same math system? Also people talk about "physics," once again they don't have to conform to our world since it very clearly isn't meant to be our world, isn't that the whole point of immersing yourself in these other worlds you crave so badly?

  Zeref.Dyver

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/07
Posts: 281

4/19/13 11:32:33 PM#122

Originally posted by Ortwig
I think one of the earlier posts on this thread hit the mark when it mentioned Frodo teleporting to Mount Doom to drop off the ring.  A big part of "immersion" is the threshold of difficulty and challenge in the world.  We've got this scale between "realism" (within the context of the world) and convenience (efficient gameplay that doesn't bog you down as a player) and finding that  "perfect" (very subjective) balance between the two. 

 

Also this.

  Bossalinie

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 619

4/20/13 8:53:28 AM#123
Originally posted by Zeno89

Originally posted by Ortwig
I think one of the earlier posts on this thread hit the mark when it mentioned Frodo teleporting to Mount Doom to drop off the ring.  A big part of "immersion" is the threshold of difficulty and challenge in the world.  We've got this scale between "realism" (within the context of the world) and convenience (efficient gameplay that doesn't bog you down as a player) and finding that  "perfect" (very subjective) balance between the two. 

 

Also this.

Which is absolutely impossible for developers to try to achieve. 

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/20/13 8:56:15 AM#124
Originally posted by Bossalinie
Originally posted by Zeno89

Originally posted by Ortwig
I think one of the earlier posts on this thread hit the mark when it mentioned Frodo teleporting to Mount Doom to drop off the ring.  A big part of "immersion" is the threshold of difficulty and challenge in the world.  We've got this scale between "realism" (within the context of the world) and convenience (efficient gameplay that doesn't bog you down as a player) and finding that  "perfect" (very subjective) balance between the two. 

 

Also this.

Which is absolutely impossible for developers to try to achieve. 

 

 

NO, which is impossible for business men to try to achieve...

 

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1784

4/20/13 9:12:04 AM#125

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immersion

 

The french language example used is a good example. For MMO immersion, here is a brand new MMO. It has 10 classes and 2000 specials, unlimited combinations and gear to accent those combinations.

 

Three weeks later, wiki says this is the optimal fit for each class, it's all clutter. Welcome to cookie cutter online.

Nobody needs to immerse themselves, nobody needs to learn anything. Math is math, kiss it all good-bye.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

4/20/13 10:30:31 AM#126
Originally posted by RandomDown
Originally posted by Ortwig
I think one of the earlier posts on this thread hit the mark when it mentioned Frodo teleporting to Mount Doom to drop off the ring.  A big part of "immersion" is the threshold of difficulty and challenge in the world.  We've got this scale between "realism" (within the context of the world) and convenience (efficient gameplay that doesn't bog you down as a player) and finding that  "perfect" (very subjective) balance between the two. 

Well in the context of the world why didn't Gandalf just call in that favor from the Eagles sooner and have them fly Frodo to Mount Doom to drop the ring in? Not a teleporter but that is fast travel and it did exist in the universe as it is utilized in the books at one point.

 

People also keep pointing out "realism" in the most absurd sense. So 1+1 can't equal -8 in a universe where I can conjure fire and lightning and demons out of the very air? Why do they have to use the same math system? Also people talk about "physics," once again they don't have to conform to our world since it very clearly isn't meant to be our world, isn't that the whole point of immersing yourself in these other worlds you crave so badly?

The eagles would have been spotted and shot out of the sky if they were to attempt it, probably by the Nazgul.  As it was, the war in Gondor distracted Sauron (and the Nazgul) enough for the hobbits to slip in undetected.  But that isn't even the point.  The point is that the story would have been 10 pages long and very uninteresting.  Easing "difficulty" is a slippery slope, and if you go too far with it, you are left with a 10 page, very uninteresting novel.  The same goes for a game; on the other end of the spectrum, I don't want to have to play out in a game every time I hit the restroom, or act out every single meal, but a game that takes the need for food into account, or the weight of my gear is more "realistic" and possibly more interesting, depending on how it is implemented.  I remember very clearly when we started questioning in our old D&D days, whether we could transport a million gold pieces out of a dungeon with 5 characters -- hence "bags of holding."

The point here is that a game can be more "interesting" or "immersive" when there are difficulties or challenges to overcome.  The other end of the spectrum is to make everything too difficult and a slog to play.

As far as the physics of the world goes, it all depends on whether it jives with the lore and the world context.  Better novels and games tend to have rules for their magic, and don't blindly allow magic to do anything and everything.  A world like that would be chaotic, and "uninteresting."  It's these rules (fictional though they are), that build in challenge and difficutly.  It's finding that combination of things that allow you to overcome the challenge that makes them "immersive."  

The more a novel or game breaks its own rules, the more uninteresting the novel or game becomes.  We can argue about whether dungeon finders are good or bad, but in the end it's an argument about whether introducing them has broken the fictional rules the game has established.

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1779

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

4/20/13 10:36:54 AM#127
A good example of "breaking immersion" for me was the Ewok festival of love in SWG.
  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

4/20/13 10:39:24 AM#128
Originally posted by Thorkune
A good example of "breaking immersion" for me was the Ewok festival of love in SWG.

LOL...yea that was pretty bad.

  Thorkune

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/28/06
Posts: 1779

Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!

4/20/13 10:44:57 AM#129
Originally posted by GreenHell
Originally posted by Thorkune
A good example of "breaking immersion" for me was the Ewok festival of love in SWG.

LOL...yea that was pretty bad.

I like your avatar pic. That will always be my all time favorite quest line.

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

4/20/13 11:25:32 AM#130
Originally posted by
Originally posted by ignore_me

To some people immersion doesn't really exist. What they have could be better described as the ability to be pleasantly temporarily distracted. Immersion is a tough benchmark to hit, and MMOs are ill-equipped to make the attempt.

 

I'm entirely happy with pleasant temporary distractions though, I don't want to pretend that the game world is real, it's just a game, it's something I do for fun in my spare time.  Games are not supposed to make you pretend you're living a secondary, separate life.  People who do that have something wrong with them.

This is just an ignorant assumption to make.

So people who like to role play or use their imagination in any way have something wrong with them? It's an escape from the drudges of everyday life for some people...for others...yes, that role play aspect they enjoy. I am not really a role player...I have participated a tiny bit in EQ at one point...but was never ever heavy into it. Was just a nice twist on things sometimes, but I don't hate those who do it a lot. They just have a different way of enjoying the game from the way I do. Is it wrong? No. Does that mean I think they have mental issues? Not by a long shot.

Could just as easily turn that around and the players that like that sort of thing could think there is something wrong with you if you (Not saying you do, but as an example) like to race through content to get all the "1sts" on the server and have leet status. Or bounce from MMORPG to MMORPG on a whim. Although some may be thinking it...I don't see them post it. Just makes you look like a twit.

 

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1044

4/20/13 11:56:56 AM#131
Originally posted by Sunshinee

Maybe this is the same old thread, just written differently but I know a lot of you old timers on here love to talk how certain features in a game "break your immersion".

I've in the past have been in beta's and lobbied for group finder tools if they weren't present, flying mounts, instant teleports to dungeons etc etc the tools that make the game possibly more accessible, and weren't wasting your time in general.

Now I've been playing MMO's since pre cu swg. I played WoW before all the tools were available, and I embraced all the tools I've mentioned plus alot more that had come into existence in WoW and other mmo's.

I guess where I question people is at the point where I hear the argument that these break "immersion". I get how these things can be Anti social, but let's be serious with every supposed anti social tool you guys think exist, in any real triple AAA mmo that falls on each individual itself as to whether they want to be social or not. People have a wide variety of experiences with those tools like LFG tools and found plenty of people to be social using them, and vice versa.

So when I hear Immersion breaking as an argument I'm left confused. Are these individuals pretending that they are their own actual characters they see on screen and want to be "immersed" in this feeling of being in this great giant world fighting these evil beast as this mighty conquering hero?

This is a serious question I've wondered, when I've gamed I don't do any of this imagining. Granted this whole thing might just be predicated on each indivuals playstyle.I'm mostly competitive and the type of person who likes to be on the top so I play a game to play a game. Not to feel like I myself am in this pretend virtual world. On top of that in a mmo, there is thousands of other supposed "heroes" running around killing the same mobs as you are. I just have a very hard time seeing it.

Either way I'm curious to understand this side of the argument and or if I am possibly way off base and nobody does this? Either way, thoughts?

 

It's like this: you view MMORPGs the same way you view Super Mario Bros -- just a a bunch of points and achievements without any continuity necessary -- the goal is to "win."  Going to a random dungeon on the other side of the planet makes perfect sense to you, and no explanation is necessary, as long as the leaderboard marker moves up the scale.  

Others view MMORPGs more like group storytelling or novels where continuity is key, and context matters.  They are not playing to "win" but to experience a story, much like a novel, but with the added bonus of doing group story with other players.

The people who REALLY don't understand this are the ones who say, "well, why not just go read a novel and forget about games?"  These are the players who have never tried a tabletop roleplaying game, and cannot understand why anyone would.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

4/20/13 12:51:28 PM#132
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ignore_me

To some people immersion doesn't really exist. What they have could be better described as the ability to be pleasantly temporarily distracted. Immersion is a tough benchmark to hit, and MMOs are ill-equipped to make the attempt.

 

I'm entirely happy with pleasant temporary distractions though, I don't want to pretend that the game world is real, it's just a game, it's something I do for fun in my spare time.  Games are not supposed to make you pretend you're living a secondary, separate life.  People who do that have something wrong with them.

You are completely missing the point on immersion. Immersion isn't meant to replace real life activities or experiences, it's meant to make the game more enjoyable by not breaking certain "personal rules".

For example, if your character had the ability to do the worm dance animation while floating above ground and fighting all at the same time, you might think "Well, that's stupid. Why would I want to play a game that doesn't make sense to me?".

All of us have a point where a broken "personal rule" will ruin a game for us. Some are more forgiving. Others are more strict. But it has absolutely nothing to do with replacing real life.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  angus858

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/04
Posts: 354

4/20/13 1:02:00 PM#133
Originally posted by Sunshinee

 

So when I hear Immersion breaking as an argument I'm left confused. Are these individuals pretending that they are their own actual characters they see on screen and want to be "immersed" in this feeling of being in this great giant world fighting these evil beast as this mighty conquering hero?

 

 

Yes.  It's a playstyle just like being competitive is a play style.   When I read a fantasy or sci-fi novel I don't count the number of letters in each word or how many words I read per minute to score my reading.   That would defeate the purpose: immersion.  When I watch a fantasy or sci-fi movie I don't simultaneously discuss the cinematography or the political views of the director or the real lives of the actors.  Some people do and that's cool but I have no interest in that while I'm actually watching the movie.  I want to be immersed in the story.  MMORPG's are the same for me.

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

4/20/13 1:48:45 PM#134
Immersion is one of those things that people will never agree upon.

To me, there are two sides to the immersion coin. On the one side, there's moment-to-moment immersion. This is the illusion that the things you're doing have immediate and real consequences. For example, it's important that I don't aggro this ogre. It's important that I don't fall off this ledge. It's important that I interrupt this mage's spell. It's important that I keep this ranger healed. None of these things are actually important. It's a game. There's no real life consequence to failing to do any of these things. It's not unlike watching an action movie. You can feel thrilled that the hero character on the screen is in mortal danger and just barely managing to dodge bullets and stay alive, but there's no actual consequence to what's happening because it's a made-up story. Immediate immersion is dependent upon clear visual and audio feedback and responsive controls, and can be reinforced (or broken) by the game's mechanics. The game need not be difficult but must draw a clear line between your actions and the outcome. Unresponsive controls, lag, lagged sound, or inconsistent AI can ruin this.

The other side of the coin is lasting immersion. This is the illusion that the things you're doing have lasting real consequences, that your avatar and his or her universe matters. For example, it's important to get the last piece of this armor set, to get some furniture for my house, to finish this quest line. It's important to sell this rare drop for a good price and make a lot of money. As above, none of these things are actually important and have no real life consequence. I don't have a strong idea of what features of a game improve its lasting immersion. I can point to some games I've played and say "I don't care what happens in this world. It's obviously a game and there is no consequence." I can uninstall a game like that without caring. There are others that I feel bad about leaving, even if I no longer enjoy playing the game, because the idea's been implanted that it's important to keep doing things in that game. This second form of immersion is a little more important to me than the first kind, but there's also no perfect formula for pulling it off.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

4/20/13 2:26:02 PM#135
Originally posted by NaughtyP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ignore_me

To some people immersion doesn't really exist. What they have could be better described as the ability to be pleasantly temporarily distracted. Immersion is a tough benchmark to hit, and MMOs are ill-equipped to make the attempt.

 

I'm entirely happy with pleasant temporary distractions though, I don't want to pretend that the game world is real, it's just a game, it's something I do for fun in my spare time.  Games are not supposed to make you pretend you're living a secondary, separate life.  People who do that have something wrong with them.

You are completely missing the point on immersion. Immersion isn't meant to replace real life activities or experiences, it's meant to make the game more enjoyable by not breaking certain "personal rules".

For example, if your character had the ability to do the worm dance animation while floating above ground and fighting all at the same time, you might think "Well, that's stupid. Why would I want to play a game that doesn't make sense to me?".

All of us have a point where a broken "personal rule" will ruin a game for us. Some are more forgiving. Others are more strict. But it has absolutely nothing to do with replacing real life.

For some people, it *IS* the point of immersion, they want to escape from reality and live in a virtual world.  Those people are pathetic losers.

Games, like any other entertainment product, have their own rules.  The designers decide what rules apply to their game and so long as they are consistent, I'd argue that the game is fundamentally sound.  You might not like the rules they come up with, and of course, you're welcome not to play the game, that's what personal preference is for.

Personally, I hate all of those stupid animations, it makes no sense whatsoever for a medieval character to be disco dancing.  I make it easy and just never use any of them.  It has nothing to do with immersion, it has to do with the fact that it's stupid.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/20/13 2:39:39 PM#136
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by NaughtyP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ignore_me

To some people immersion doesn't really exist. What they have could be better described as the ability to be pleasantly temporarily distracted. Immersion is a tough benchmark to hit, and MMOs are ill-equipped to make the attempt.

 

I'm entirely happy with pleasant temporary distractions though, I don't want to pretend that the game world is real, it's just a game, it's something I do for fun in my spare time.  Games are not supposed to make you pretend you're living a secondary, separate life.  People who do that have something wrong with them.

You are completely missing the point on immersion. Immersion isn't meant to replace real life activities or experiences, it's meant to make the game more enjoyable by not breaking certain "personal rules".

For example, if your character had the ability to do the worm dance animation while floating above ground and fighting all at the same time, you might think "Well, that's stupid. Why would I want to play a game that doesn't make sense to me?".

All of us have a point where a broken "personal rule" will ruin a game for us. Some are more forgiving. Others are more strict. But it has absolutely nothing to do with replacing real life.

For some people, it *IS* the point of immersion, they want to escape from reality and live in a virtual world.  Those people are pathetic losers.

Games, like any other entertainment product, have their own rules.  The designers decide what rules apply to their game and so long as they are consistent, I'd argue that the game is fundamentally sound.  You might not like the rules they come up with, and of course, you're welcome not to play the game, that's what personal preference is for.

Personally, I hate all of those stupid animations, it makes no sense whatsoever for a medieval character to be disco dancing.  I make it easy and just never use any of them.  It has nothing to do with immersion, it has to do with the fact that it's stupid.

 

 

It great to have such young minds around...

 

A community of players is what roleplaying is. If there is no community, then there is no point in playing within those games. Oddly, people who play MMORPG's games for entertainment are funny...   they could be jogging, or watching TV...

Why play a video game, unless You are going to chellenge yourself... (IE like a puzzle..?)  Or, if you are 100% into entertainment, then why play a MMORPG, and just not an arcade game..? People whom play roleplaying games all day long, like an arcade game are odd.

 

 

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1896

4/20/13 2:52:34 PM#137

First person view is one of the game mechanics that adds a tremendous amount of immersion for me.  As does any mechanic or content that is consistent with its own theme and plays more like a simulation and less like an arcade game.  A friendly community also factors into the overall picture.  I call it world immersion as it is a distinct feeling from say game immersion where if the premise of the game is fun, then I enjoy it and stick around.  World immersion is what I seek in an MMORPG.  World immersion is not something I have yet to find in a MMOFPS or MMOARPG or MMORTS, mainly because too much focus is on the combat or the arcade effect as it were.

 

I'm not sure what happened, but somehow casual game play became equated to arcade style game play.  Everquest was too hardcore for my tastes, but all they needed to do was make a game similar to it that was less time consuming and job-like and I would have been happy.  Instead everything has become about action this and action that, with very little focus on world building or adding quests that are actually the definition of the word or allowing multiple paths of progression so you can level the way you want.  Themeparks didn't start off on rails, yet that is what they have evolved into and I find it sad and disappointing.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

4/20/13 4:38:28 PM#138
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by NaughtyP
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ignore_me

To some people immersion doesn't really exist. What they have could be better described as the ability to be pleasantly temporarily distracted. Immersion is a tough benchmark to hit, and MMOs are ill-equipped to make the attempt.

 

I'm entirely happy with pleasant temporary distractions though, I don't want to pretend that the game world is real, it's just a game, it's something I do for fun in my spare time.  Games are not supposed to make you pretend you're living a secondary, separate life.  People who do that have something wrong with them.

You are completely missing the point on immersion. Immersion isn't meant to replace real life activities or experiences, it's meant to make the game more enjoyable by not breaking certain "personal rules".

For example, if your character had the ability to do the worm dance animation while floating above ground and fighting all at the same time, you might think "Well, that's stupid. Why would I want to play a game that doesn't make sense to me?".

All of us have a point where a broken "personal rule" will ruin a game for us. Some are more forgiving. Others are more strict. But it has absolutely nothing to do with replacing real life.

For some people, it *IS* the point of immersion, they want to escape from reality and live in a virtual world.  Those people are pathetic losers.

Games, like any other entertainment product, have their own rules.  The designers decide what rules apply to their game and so long as they are consistent, I'd argue that the game is fundamentally sound.  You might not like the rules they come up with, and of course, you're welcome not to play the game, that's what personal preference is for.

Personally, I hate all of those stupid animations, it makes no sense whatsoever for a medieval character to be disco dancing.  I make it easy and just never use any of them.  It has nothing to do with immersion, it has to do with the fact that it's stupid.

Every piece of any game has to do with immersion. Gameplay mechanics, physics, art, sound... everything is part of immersion. Even sports games like Madden or FPS games like Counterstrike. People arguing that immersion is unimportant really gives me a good laugh. When immersion is good, you shouldn't even notice it!

  • If they took the stadium noises out of Madden, you would notice.
  • If a headshot in Counterstrike didn't kill someone, you would notice.
  • If a baskets in NBA2K13 counted for 7 points each, you would notice.
Every single scenario above could break immersion from a game. The simple fact that you think "this is stupid" is breaking your immersion from the game because you are no longer thinking about the game, but of the rules (or lack therof) governing the game.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

4/21/13 2:36:16 AM#139
Originally posted by Phelcher

It great to have such young minds around...

I'm far older than you, I'm sure.

 

A community of players is what roleplaying is. If there is no community, then there is no point in playing within those games. Oddly, people who play MMORPG's games for entertainment are funny...   they could be jogging, or watching TV...

As someone who started playing roleplaying games in 1974 with Chainmail, the predecessor to original D&D, I'd say you're wrong.  Compare what goes on in a good PnP RPG around a table and compare it to what happens in an MMO.  There simply is no comparison.

And  yes, those people could be doing just about anything, it's a good thing that they picked playing MMOs because they represent the majority of the MMO market.  If they all decided to go do something else, the entire MMO marketplace would implode and you'd be left with nothing to play.

Why play a video game, unless You are going to chellenge yourself... (IE like a puzzle..?)  Or, if you are 100% into entertainment, then why play a MMORPG, and just not an arcade game..? People whom play roleplaying games all day long, like an arcade game are odd.

 

Because they choose to play an MMO?  What business is it of yours how people choose to spend their time and money?  In case you haven't noticed, there are tons of games out there that are totally non-competitive that attract millions of players.  These are ENTERTAINMENT products!  They are not places to wave your e-peen around.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Shamorau

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/09
Posts: 165

4/21/13 2:45:45 AM#140
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Sunshinee

Maybe this is the same old thread, just written differently but I know a lot of you old timers on here love to talk how certain features in a game "break your immersion".

I've in the past have been in beta's and lobbied for group finder tools if they weren't present, flying mounts, instant teleports to dungeons etc etc the tools that make the game possibly more accessible, and weren't wasting your time in general.

Now I've been playing MMO's since pre cu swg. I played WoW before all the tools were available, and I embraced all the tools I've mentioned plus alot more that had come into existence in WoW and other mmo's.

I guess where I question people is at the point where I hear the argument that these break "immersion". I get how these things can be Anti social, but let's be serious with every supposed anti social tool you guys think exist, in any real triple AAA mmo that falls on each individual itself as to whether they want to be social or not. People have a wide variety of experiences with those tools like LFG tools and found plenty of people to be social using them, and vice versa.

So when I hear Immersion breaking as an argument I'm left confused. Are these individuals pretending that they are their own actual characters they see on screen and want to be "immersed" in this feeling of being in this great giant world fighting these evil beast as this mighty conquering hero?

This is a serious question I've wondered, when I've gamed I don't do any of this imagining. Granted this whole thing might just be predicated on each indivuals playstyle.I'm mostly competitive and the type of person who likes to be on the top so I play a game to play a game. Not to feel like I myself am in this pretend virtual world. On top of that in a mmo, there is thousands of other supposed "heroes" running around killing the same mobs as you are. I just have a very hard time seeing it.

Either way I'm curious to understand this side of the argument and or if I am possibly way off base and nobody does this? Either way, thoughts?

 

It's like this: you view MMORPGs the same way you view Super Mario Bros -- just a a bunch of points and achievements without any continuity necessary -- the goal is to "win."  Going to a random dungeon on the other side of the planet makes perfect sense to you, and no explanation is necessary, as long as the leaderboard marker moves up the scale.  

Others view MMORPGs more like group storytelling or novels where continuity is key, and context matters.  They are not playing to "win" but to experience a story, much like a novel, but with the added bonus of doing group story with other players.

The people who REALLY don't understand this are the ones who say, "well, why not just go read a novel and forget about games?"  These are the players who have never tried a tabletop roleplaying game, and cannot understand why anyone would.

this is probably the best explaination to date of imersion. i like imersive games where u lose track of time because you are that into the game either via the story/crafting or basically whatever rocks your boat. 

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