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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Why will this not be B2P like TSW/Gw2 ?? :((

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57 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17130

4/20/13 8:58:17 AM#21
Originally posted by bugmeno
 

Guess he does not know that in every MMO,  players ARE THE CONTENT and he needs A LOT OF THEM

Yeah, I know that's the new catch phrase but I agree with him.

Maybe it's a generation thing but it just grinds my gears to have people work hard on something and the only way they can get paid is uncapping the limit of what the hardcore people are willing to pay so that others can become "content".

Especially when $15 is so pathetically small to one person. And if it isn't then I would say playign multiple mmo's should not be the priority.

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

4/20/13 8:58:44 AM#22

Because even though it has failed to do so in the past, supporters of CE think that a sub fee will somehow magically make the community more tightly-knit, and 'keep the kiddies out'.

The level of condescension shown by said community to anyone who dares to question the Gospel of Jacobs shows that it's more than likely no better than WoW's, which amuses me greatly. It'll be even more amusing if the game crashes and burns horribly, causing everyone to fall off their high horses.

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/20/13 9:02:18 AM#23
Originally posted by korent1991
Originally posted by Mkilbride

Because.

 

https://camelotunchained.wikispaces.com/Subscription+Model

 

Q: Why have you chosen a subscription-model? Are you insane? Everything is FTP and should be now and forever!

a) Because I don’t want to have to support the vast majority of players who never pay for their time in FTP games; b) Maybe, but I think it is the good kind of insane; c) There’s a major shakeout coming down the road (3-5 years max) in the FTP space whether people/publishers want to hear it or not (well, it’s not of course). Besides, we will get a tighter community with fewer people who actually really want to play and stick with our game as opposed to a large number of people who are playing until they have to pay or they find a different FTP that interests them.

 

  • What I mean by Multi-tier Subs is that it is not going to be one size fits all....
  • We did the discount thing too, if you play for 3 months, 6 months, a year... .
  • I think there are better ways to set up sub plans....
  • We'd love to have a family plan.
  • Let be clear about this , we are not looking at raising the sub rates.
  • We want to be lower than the average price.
  • Since we are not going to be a PvE game, we're not going to need as many developers, so we shouldn't charge as much.
 

well, it's not a smart move... games can be made B2P with cash shop if you design it smart. But judging how this FAQ is written (like it's being talked up to me from high) I doubt they are smart enough to survive on todays mmo market. 

They said in a comment that was one of the reason they didn't go with BTP or FTP. Because you don't only need to make a good game, you also need to make a good payment system.

 

I will take a sub anytime if it allows the devs to spend more time on the actual game rather than on a cash shop.

 

Maybe it's not them that aren't smart enough.

  wowclones

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 133

4/20/13 9:03:00 AM#24
Originally posted by bugmeno

what is the reason CU is not B2P ??

Becasue Jacobs wants CU to eventually die like WAR and DAOC due to having a sub fee. WAR would still be kicking today if it went F2P as all the mmos that went F2P from that era are still very active to this day.

  Marcus-

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/28/06
Posts: 968

4/20/13 9:06:34 AM#25
Originally posted by wowclones
Originally posted by bugmeno

what is the reason CU is not B2P ??

Becasue Jacobs wants CU to eventually die like WAR and DAOC due to having a sub fee. WAR would still be kicking today if it went F2P as all the mmos that went F2P from that era are still very active to this day.

 Unfortuneltly WAR going f2p wouldn't magically make it a very good game. In my opinion, the main problem with WAR was not its subscription model.

Make a game people are willing to pay a monthly fee for, and you may be on to something.

Heres hoping

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/20/13 9:12:21 AM#26
Originally posted by Rednecksith

Because even though it has failed to do so in the past, supporters of CE think that a sub fee will somehow magically make the community more tightly-knit, and 'keep the kiddies out'.

The level of condescension shown by said community to anyone who dares to question the Gospel of Jacobs shows that it's more than likely no better than WoW's, which amuses me greatly. It'll be even more amusing if the game crashes and burns horribly, causing everyone to fall off their high horses.

Well, it's not only the sub fee, there will also be the realm, serveur and guilde pride thing. Maybe i should also remind you that there will be a reputation with so few people, if you do things you'll be known for it if it impacts a lot of people, so if you mess with every person you meet you'll quickly end up alone.

 

Also you cannot deny the fact than kids have a more difficult acces to money and are generally less mature than adults. So a monthly fee means less kids, so less immature attitude.

 

See, it's not magical.

  rastapastor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 135

4/20/13 9:13:32 AM#27

[mod edit] Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1868

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

4/20/13 9:16:57 AM#28
Originally posted by Bad.dog

Already did the WOW killer with Warhammer ....time to move on to bigger and better things

yea, and he's been castrated right before launch. that's why he is trying another approach now, kickstarter.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/20/13 9:17:03 AM#29
Originally posted by wowclones
Originally posted by bugmeno

what is the reason CU is not B2P ??

Becasue Jacobs wants CU to eventually die like WAR and DAOC due to having a sub fee. WAR would still be kicking today if it went F2P as all the mmos that went F2P from that era are still very active to this day.

Can you tel me how many players are there on those games please?

 

Just to have an idea about the minimum number of players needed to keep running a FTP game.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17130

4/20/13 9:17:20 AM#30
Originally posted by rastapastor

[mod edit] Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

yeah yeah, you have a point. However, the idea of "buy to play" is very similiar to f2p.

They rely upon people spending money in their cash shop. The only differenceis that b2p does allow for everyone to at least pony up something but the cash shop is there to make money.

He needs the monthly revenue that a subscription brings as well as the initial payment for the game. As long as he can make the game sub "worth it" each month then the small community that will be in Camelot Unchained should have no problem supporting a game they love.

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 981

4/20/13 9:17:50 AM#31
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by korent1991
Originally posted by Mkilbride

 

They were surely smart enough to create an mmorpg (Dark Age of Camelot) that not one F2P game can even compare with in imagination, depth, options such as massive classive differentiation, the fact you get to fight someone different than you because again there's that word, smart...

 

 

Smart ...took a great RvR game and ruined it with piss poor pve (Dark Age of Camelot)...developed a WOW killer RVR game (Warhammer) and ruined it with piss poor pve and pvp . Anyone else starting to see a trend here ?.....Smart

  BlueTiger33

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 169

4/20/13 9:24:59 AM#32
Originally posted by Mkilbride

Because.

 

https://camelotunchained.wikispaces.com/Subscription+Model

 

Q: Why have you chosen a subscription-model? Are you insane? Everything is FTP and should be now and forever!

a) Because I don’t want to have to support the vast majority of players who never pay for their time in FTP games; b) Maybe, but I think it is the good kind of insane; c) There’s a major shakeout coming down the road (3-5 years max) in the FTP space whether people/publishers want to hear it or not (well, it’s not of course). Besides, we will get a tighter community with fewer people who actually really want to play and stick with our game as opposed to a large number of people who are playing until they have to pay or they find a different FTP that interests them.

 

  • What I mean by Multi-tier Subs is that it is not going to be one size fits all....
  • We did the discount thing too, if you play for 3 months, 6 months, a year... .
  • I think there are better ways to set up sub plans....
  • We'd love to have a family plan.
  • Let be clear about this , we are not looking at raising the sub rates.
  • We want to be lower than the average price.
  • Since we are not going to be a PvE game, we're not going to need as many developers, so we shouldn't charge as much.
 
I think it's fair. What other sub based game out there are you going to paly?I can't think of sone released now, or in the coming years that I would wanna sub to.
 
Previously I would have said with pride "FFXIV ARR"
 
After being in the beta...well...yeah.

One of the best pro sub pieces I've seen. Down to earth and the point.


I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog

  rastapastor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 135

4/20/13 9:26:18 AM#33
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by rastapastor

I think ppl are uneducated nowdays. Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

yeah yeah, you have a point. However, the idea of "buy to play" is very similiar to f2p.

They rely upon people spending money in their cash shop. The only differenceis that b2p does allow for everyone to at least pony up something but the cash shop is there to make money.

He needs the monthly revenue that a subscription brings as well as the initial payment for the game. As long as he can make the game sub "worth it" each month then the small community that will be in Camelot Unchained should have no problem supporting a game they love.

 

Judging on a GW1 and GW2 success and its "Gem shop", subscription is not needed to keep the development and money flow. If it was different ArenaNet wouldn't decide to assemble the same revenue model for GW2. Ofc we can argue about quality and quantity of content between b2p and p2p.

One thing i'll admit is that subscription games have better support (tickets etc) than f2p or b2p games. But content wise i think it's equal (maybe b2p is little lower :D). 

  BlueTiger33

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 169

4/20/13 9:28:48 AM#34
Originally posted by rastapastor

[mod edit] . Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

There's a reason for it. B2P/F2P still requires online acces and they still need to bring in an income to guarantee their jobs. 


I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog

  rastapastor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 135

4/20/13 9:32:32 AM#35

We are not in 2001 year. It's 2013 servers and bandwith is now very cheap (it isn't even included in the main chart of NCsoft :D).

 

For instance in 2001 for 256kbps connection my parents payed like 35 dollars. Now for 50Mbits symetric connection (50Mbit up and down) I pay less than 20 dollars every month :).

 

Most money goes for support and development, thats why P2P games have better support than F2P and B2P ;).

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/20/13 9:35:39 AM#36
Originally posted by rastapastor
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by rastapastor

[mod edit] Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

yeah yeah, you have a point. However, the idea of "buy to play" is very similiar to f2p.

They rely upon people spending money in their cash shop. The only differenceis that b2p does allow for everyone to at least pony up something but the cash shop is there to make money.

He needs the monthly revenue that a subscription brings as well as the initial payment for the game. As long as he can make the game sub "worth it" each month then the small community that will be in Camelot Unchained should have no problem supporting a game they love.

 

Judging on a GW1 and GW2 success and its "Gem shop", subscription is not needed to keep the development and money flow. If it was different ArenaNet wouldn't decide to assemble the same revenue model for GW2. Ofc we can argue about quality and quantity of content between b2p and p2p.

One thing i'll admit is that subscription games have better support (tickets etc) than f2p or b2p games. But content wise i think it's equal (maybe b2p is little lower :D). 

Not only that but they even made it to where you can get cash shop items with in game Gold.

 

Though I'll start being a bit more fair to P2P, maybe the game type can't support it, cause I stated earlier due to GW2 being the way it is, it's cash shop is anti P2W, but maybe if it was a clone possibly or just had certain mechanics like other MMOS it might be P2W.

Like if the skins in the boxes gave better stats than just looks then that would be an issue. Though it's just cosmectic skins.

Or if you never down leveled in PVE or upscale in WvW then the XP bonuses and etc would be terrible IMO. Just depends on how the game is made that makes it not rely on cash shop. They do understand many people don't have patience or time but have money so they will give up cash, and still won't have an advantage over someone playing.

GW2 has an optional cash shop. I want to say PS2 cash shop is anti P2W as well. So yea, B2P atleast since year 2012 for MMORPGs really is making the P2W arguments seem silly but then again it depends on MMORPG mechanics and etc.

Maybe Wildstar will be B2P and it's cash shop could function like GW2 but I don't know. Guess we have to wait for a few more MMORPG's to be B2P and have opional cash shop like GW2 before people cease pretending that it's impossible to be anti p2w or pay to have the upper hand while not having a sub(that in itself isn't needed).

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/20/13 9:37:56 AM#37
Originally posted by rastapastor
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by rastapastor

I think ppl are uneducated nowdays. Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

yeah yeah, you have a point. However, the idea of "buy to play" is very similiar to f2p.

They rely upon people spending money in their cash shop. The only differenceis that b2p does allow for everyone to at least pony up something but the cash shop is there to make money.

He needs the monthly revenue that a subscription brings as well as the initial payment for the game. As long as he can make the game sub "worth it" each month then the small community that will be in Camelot Unchained should have no problem supporting a game they love.

 

Judging on a GW1 and GW2 success and its "Gem shop", subscription is not needed to keep the development and money flow. If it was different ArenaNet wouldn't decide to assemble the same revenue model for GW2. Ofc we can argue about quality and quantity of content between b2p and p2p.

One thing i'll admit is that subscription games have better support (tickets etc) than f2p or b2p games. But content wise i think it's equal (maybe b2p is little lower :D). 

Another difference is than a PTP doesn't need as many players to keep running, whereas FTP/BTP need to attract a lot more as only a small part is paying.

  rastapastor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 135

4/20/13 9:39:10 AM#38

Heh ofc i don't want to discredit P2P model, if the game is worth i will pay with pleasure. The thing is developers should keep an eye on other revenue models.

 

GW2 prooves that B2P can have it success in the industry but AS YOU SAID it depends  on how the game is built. 

 

Maybe some of those "big" releases of last years wouldn't fail so miserably if they took the B2P model from the start instead of P2P? 

  bugmeno

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 87

 
OP  4/20/13 9:44:38 AM#39
Originally posted by BlueTiger33
Originally posted by rastapastor

I think ppl are uneducated nowdays. Guy is asking why this game is not B2P, and ppl talk shit about F2P :)

 

B2P != F2P ;)

There's a reason for it. B2P/F2P still requires online acces and they still need to bring in an income to guarantee their jobs. 

can't be much.

No voiceovers, no cutscenes, no story, no PvE. They could easily live off the money they get with B2P. Maybe they just want people to pay every month on top of the box price so they can buy Ferraris for the dev team...

 

is it guaranteed that this game will have no cash shop whatsoever?

  Ryowulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 669

4/20/13 9:51:15 AM#40

The reason is they don't want a large causal playbase that comes and goes like the tide.  By subbing they will get a small, but loyal group of fans.  Which hopefully will be enough to pay for the cost of running it.

AAA titles aren't going sub anymore because they spend sooo much money that need to make it back as fast as possible.

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