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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Enjoyed this amazing game that is... until today

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351 posts found
  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/19/13 9:14:40 AM#181
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by RizelStar

I think to those who just absolutely need to be forced to do things, play those games...I mean how many MMORPGs out there are based on Holy Trinity ancd Forced Group play? I know there are plenty.

Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P? 

Well "no" you shouldn't because you would have to actually look at the actual reasons they are f2p and not make incorrect correlations just because you think they prove a point.

It's amazing how many people jumpt to that arguemtn... "X went f2p from p2p because it didn't do Y. Yup, that's why it did that... no other reason possible" "

Cause that is not the reason I said that, I'm saying that if people want to play those games but never wanted to because they were p2p, then they can play some of them now cause they are f2p.

Damn. 

 

Edited: To be fair I guess I'll elaborate more when I ask a question maybe I'll just answer  it myself. I'm not oblivious to the reasons, I thought maybe if I had said "Must I get started on how many out there are now F2P because of the Forced Mechanics?" Would mean what you are talking about so I didn't state that. However what I'm saying is that games that have what people in  this thread particular, want, are now F2P, cause I'm sure there are some out there who played GW2 because it was B2P, and maybe would play a certaint MMO with those forced mechanics if it wasn't P2P. Now that there are a lot of those F2P, I'm sure people can go play them now.

Edited Again: Trust me(If you want to lol) I never have (If I did then shame on me) stated that P2P games go F2P because of those forced mechanics. To be honest I think the payment model itself plays a part when going F2P, cause I mean MMO players might like it but umm I just don't see the point, the counter arguments would be cause it would be P2W or F2P for those kids. To me GW2 B2P and PS2 F2P with cosmectic shops are the best IMHO. In B4 gambles, if I can use in game gold to get cash shop items that's even better. I will say though it's all because of how GW2 is made, some of the things sold just wouldn't work for certain MMOs. Though to me I don't think P2P means automactic failure, hell look at WoW course overseas is helping out a lot. Maybe 5 dollars a month would be cool, but 15? No. Especialy if not only is it P2P but it has a cosmectic anti p2w cash shop like GW2, PS2, an I believe TSW. 

P.S - It isn't just I who sees it as people(some or many) do as well but just really gets a bit hard each year seeing it as somehting worth doing when MMOs each year start out P2P and end up F2P. Maybe if it was optional but not limited like SWTOR, I think that would be fine.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2603

There... are... four... lights!

4/19/13 1:07:23 PM#182
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  User Deleted
4/19/13 3:27:36 PM#183
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.

I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.

Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.

  RizelStar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/19/13 3:37:25 PM#184
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.

I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.

Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.

Thank you!!!!!

Oh and yea I agree with everything but just had to highlight this cause, if this was not true I know GW2 would not be around this long and/or it'd go down hill by now.

As a side note, I find it odd because a lot of naysayers arguments was that it's no different from WoW and etc but here in year 2013 it changed to it's not like WoW so it sucks. Really odd, it's like one month it's a same ol themepark and the next month it sucks because it's not like all the other themeparks.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4075

4/19/13 3:39:07 PM#185
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3082

I am more than some of my parts

4/19/13 4:41:19 PM#186
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them.  I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  MidBoss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/09
Posts: 91

4/19/13 4:49:04 PM#187
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them.  I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.

People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.

Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.

While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.

I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3082

I am more than some of my parts

4/19/13 5:27:25 PM#188
Originally posted by MidBoss
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them.  I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.

People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.

Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.

While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.

I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.

People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist.  It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it.   It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair.  Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant.  Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2091

4/19/13 5:34:35 PM#189

From what I understand there is a difference between there being roles and needed roles.  Everyone says it is a zerg rush.

 

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3082

I am more than some of my parts

4/19/13 6:51:04 PM#190
Originally posted by Horusra

From what I understand there is a difference between there being class defined roles and needed roles.  Everyone says it is a zerg rush.

 

adding those two words really makes that sentence proper.  Zerg rush in a dungeon in nonexistant anymore they've stopped that.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3461

4/19/13 7:50:48 PM#191

Not sure on why the 'pro-gw2' posters are so defensive in this thread and calling ANet a liar.

ANet has acknowledged that tutorials are 'something for us to vastly improve on'.

Pretty sure calling Anet a liar isn't going to work out too well when discussing something, but whatever.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  umie214

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 125

4/20/13 12:16:37 AM#192

OP, what are you crying about?

i play a dedicated healer/boonbot guardian and staff ele. i carry my 5-man group in 5v20 zerg stomps in WvW. i also carry larger groups in WvW along with other support specs. boons and burst healing make all the difference. support builds are also REQUIRED in higher lever fractals. do you need help with your build? just ask instead of rage-quitting. too bad you couldnt figure it out. 

  Zeppelin5083

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 413

“Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities.”

4/20/13 3:21:57 PM#193

I agree and disagree a bit. I loved GW2 when I did my first run through. I got my thief up to 80 and ran a couple dungeons. That's when the boredom and tedium hit me. I've never been one for dungeon grinding for armor just so I can get the best stats until the next expansion comes out.

So I started a new toon. However, due to the fact that I explored the world completely with my thief, I found myself doing 80% of the same dymanic events, and all the same hearts and skill points. Basically experiencing the same story as my thief. If I could suffer the grind, I would be content playing through to experience the personal story. However, just based on my hatred of grinding, I find myself unable to. So now GW2, originally the game I have looked most forward to in my life, I now play ocassionally for a change of pace from what I normally get into.

I don't find fault with the way they set the game up though. They took a big risk when they added in dynamic events and dropped the holy trinity. Hats off to them, in my opinon this genre needed something new. Guild Wars 2 fell a bit short overall, but did do a few things right.

My hope is that games in the future keep trying to innovate and bring in new ideas and continue to push the limits to the MMO. Ideally, one with little to no grind, or enough content to make you forget about the grind.

Just my 2 cents.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

4/20/13 3:47:16 PM#194
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by MidBoss
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them.  I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.

People really need to cool it with the insults in this thread, saying "you don't get it" or "you just can't grasp how complex it is" is frankly ridiculous.

Enjoying GW2s system doesn't make you some kind of enlightened MMO savant.

While not enjoying it does not make you a slave to the old ways or whatever else people are trying to claim here.

I can play my guardian just fine, I still find the fights boring and tedious.

People have proven that roles exist in GW2, yet other people say they don't exist.  It's natural for a person to say that something doesn't exist when they don't understand it.   It's not being rude, it's just being honest and fair.  Just because a person can't see outside the box that they found themselves in, doesn't mean that what is beyond the limitations of their view is nonexistant.  Do you feel it's cruel to mention it to them?

No, you don't understand that roles are all about the player's perspective and you can easily have contradicting perspectives for the same game mechanic.  Both are correct, because that's how they are percieved by the players.  It's hard to get past your insulting manner though to even argue the point.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

4/20/13 3:49:42 PM#195
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them.  I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.

No, we understand them, we just don't like them.  We prefer a more defined and group traditional role.  It doesn't make us too stupid to understand the resulting gameplay.  Knock it off with the insults, dude.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

4/20/13 3:54:04 PM#196
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.

I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.

Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.

I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails?  No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2.  I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control.  Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it.  That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone.  What is stagnate to you isn't for others.  What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others.  Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1882

4/20/13 3:57:18 PM#197
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Tinybina

I'm going to keep this short in sweet but this was the biggest reason why I never played GW2.  

 

The lack of the "Holy trinity" in a MMO is just not the type of MMO I want to play. 

 

So while I would find it a little wierd that it took you this long for it to hit you, I can complelety understand why you left.

Completely agree.  It took playing a game like GW2 to make me realize I like being important to a party for a specific role.  It also helps each class feel unique and less homogenized. 

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Nice way to ignore his context of being a class that is unique within the group, not the overall game.  Different strokes for different folks, learn it, love it, get over it.  If anyone is showing a lack of imagination, it's you and your cronies.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4575

4/20/13 4:03:57 PM#198
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
*snip**

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination?  Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

You are just having problems playing a NEW game with different dynamics. It's not that roles don't exist, you just don't understand them.  I guess it stands to reason that when something is beyond a person ability to understand, that they find it boring.

No, we understand them, we just don't like them.  We prefer a more defined and group traditional role.  It doesn't make us too stupid to understand the resulting gameplay.  Knock it off with the insults, dude.

Honestly, all insults & epeens aside, much of what you guys are complaining about is doable in GW2, you just can't think about it using the same ruleset as the traditional MMOs (EQs / WoW / Vanguard / etc.). For example, group comp in GW2 makes a huge difference. This isn't to say that they aren't all viable, but that how you structure you're group dictates how the fights will be. If you have a group that's mostly damage, heals, or straight up tanky (invulns, blocks, high toughness), you're fights are going to be super chaotic.

If you want more simplistic / organized fights, then you need to approach them as such. For example, If you wanted to go for a more trinity-minded group comp, bring a guardian or 2. If you're doing a dungeon that has a lot of ranged enemies (i.e. Caudicus' Manor) bring anti-range skills (wall of reflection, feedback, smokescreen, shield bubbles, whirlding defense, etc. etc. etc.). Bring some damage (warriors, necros, thieves), and bring some support / utility classes (elementalist, engineer, mesmer). Probably the most faceroll easy way to do most dungeons atm is guardian stacking. Put 2 guardians at the front with altruistic healing / symbols and area control abilities. Have your damage stack on the guardians for AoE heals / buffs / protection, and your backliners supporting from a safe distance. That strat works for most of the fights in this game atm.

- Also, the chaotic nature of the game's combat comes largely from the AI. However, the AI has fairly straighforward guidelines it follows. Unlike a standard, linear threat system; it's more like a pie chart. Understanding how this works allows you to manipulate fights into simpler encounters. For example, if you have anyone in your party with low HP, but super high damage, they WILL be getting hit often. Either have them prepare for that, or respec for more HP and less damage.

**I'm also not saying you guys are somehow wrong for not liking GW2's combat system. It is a matter of personal preference, and it's not for everyone. However, I am saying that a lot of people don't take the time to understand it fully before writing it off as a 'broken chaotic mess'.

  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

4/20/13 4:06:47 PM#199
Originally posted by elocke
 

Was that a veiled attempt to say I have no imagination? 

I wouldn't even call it "veiled" lol. They were quite openly insulting you (and anyone who thinks like you, apparently).

Anyway, insult aside, I disagree that I "need" the role defining to "not feel lost".  I want the role defining so that my place in the party makes sense unlike in GW2 where it's just constant chaos in dungeon runs.  I like to know as a tank who I need to pull threat from and the priority of each.  I also as a healer need to know who's going to being taking the brunt of the damage and as dps and CC I like to know when I need to slow down or speed up or control adds and such.  GW2 doesn't ever do that as I'm supposed to do all of that at once.  It's annoying, tedious and frankly bores me to tears.

I end up never feeling like part of a party or a team but more like someone who rolled up next to a bunch of other players doing the same thing I'm doing trying to get through the dungeon.  Like being pulled into a pack of running lemmings.

People, like the person you responded to, seem to confuse "liking to perform a certain role in a group" with "needing to be given rails to play on". The two, of course, are not the same.

Of course, it requires one to think critically about things, and not just jump to poorly constructed conclusions.

 

  User Deleted
4/20/13 6:10:29 PM#200
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

I guess that for those who lack the imagination to make up their own role with the tools given to them, the "on the rails" version of roles coming from WoW clones roles is a boon, and they feel lost when they don't have those rails.

And the "help each class feel unique and less homogenized" part is quite hillarious. Yeah, being exactly like every single other tank warrior, or holy priest, or whatever else out there because it's the only optimal way definitely makes on feel less homogenized... not being able to do any group content without the "tank/healer/dps" trinity makes everyone feel more unique and less homogenized... err wait... /facepalm.

Its mostly that these people want everything on rails and forced on them, from role, to grouping to quests to raiding to dailies....to enconter design. OTOH i find that approach as ultimate boredom after playing exact same games like that for years now.

I mean i understand those people to a degree, they want same ol same ol they feel comfortable with, but really do we need more EQ/WoW clones, as all of those people get bored of it as fast as anyone else.

Genre needs to evolve, it has stagnated for years now, no, more EQ/WoW clones arent doing that and GW2 is nice refreshment with some great ideas. Is it perfect? No. But it damn works, it brought lot of innovation to the table, i only wish that most new MMOs are so innovative.

I'm sorry, how does wanting a more defined class role equate to wanting things on rails?  No one is asking them to change GW2 to be more like the "other" games, they are merely pointing out their reasons for not liking GW2.  I define evolution as something that is inevitable and beyond our control.  Changing games to be more like GW2 is not evolution, it is a concious choice to do things differently, even if many don't agree with it.  That does not make GW2 the future of gaming for everyone.  What is stagnate to you isn't for others.  What is innovative to you is a movement in the wrong direction for others.  Stop acting as if you are the authority on what is and is not the correct direction to go for MMOs.

Im just sad that gamers have turned into old timers that rock in their chairs and repeat "all this new mumbos jumbos make no sense to me, in good ol' days...."

This really has become site for disgrunteled old timers that cannot make peace that things move on. Want to be old timer? Fine by me. But you sure dont get to redefine established terms like "evolution" and "stagnation".

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