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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » 750k in 13 days?

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49 posts found
  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 3868

4/19/13 2:34:49 AM#21
Originally posted by MikeJezZ
Originally posted by Caldrin

 

There's a huge different between a MMOFPS and a MMORPG.

 

Just saying.

Yeah but he did not ask for a MMORPG.. just a PVP MMO..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 3868

4/19/13 2:37:34 AM#22
Originally posted by morbuskabis

The thing is, that the EU crowd can only back when we hit the 2 million goal, because at that point PayPal will be allowed. There are a lot of ppl in EU whant to support this game but don't have credit card. Quite some ppl in my guild whant to pledge but can't for that reason.

Its sad that MJ did not give the EU ppl the chance to pledge on his official homepage with PayPal. The PvP crowd in EU is strong and is as big as the NA.

Still hope we can make it to the 2 million....

 

btw you dont need a credit card.. you just need your bank card.. and i am pretty sure everyone in the EU has a bank card capable of online payments..

 

So there is no reason for anyone not to back this.. well if they want to that is.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Ulorik

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 175

4/19/13 2:38:46 AM#23
Originally posted by morbuskabis

The thing is, that the EU crowd can only back when we hit the 2 million goal, because at that point PayPal will be allowed. There are a lot of ppl in EU whant to support this game but don't have credit card. Quite some ppl in my guild whant to pledge but can't for that reason.

Its sad that MJ did not give the EU ppl the chance to pledge on his official homepage with PayPal. The PvP crowd in EU is strong and is as big as the NA.

Still hope we can make it to the 2 million....

 

Don't know where you get this idea from.

Anyway, most RvR starved gamers who look fondly back to DaoC do have this thing called Credit Card, thats how I did my backing from the UK at least.

  PerfArt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 863

4/19/13 3:22:59 AM#24
For a "niche" game, there sure is a lot of talk about it in the mmo community. For such a "wildly daring" idea it does seem to have stirred up a lot of belief in said vision.

For a scam based on nothing but rhetoric designed to just get pledges, the main designer sure is saying a lot of preventive things to people to let them know that this game might not be for them.

All included, this KS's hype-troversy alone has pretty much assured that it will fund. It has become such an entity unto itself that it's almost like a metagame already. If I spent as much time actively attacking this game concept as many others do, I would effing back it just so i could troll the backers forums. Seems like a very popular pasttime ;)

Also: IT WILL FUND. The universe wouldn't present this concept just to take it away from me like Joss Whedon's Firefly, single-player Phantasy Star games, (and Sega as a hardware manufacturer,) and those old 16oz coke bottles that tasted better than angel tears shaken tenderly over Elysian ice.

No way. NO CHANCE.

I just hope this KS puts the "fun" in "funders" rather than the "under".

Also, and more realistically, it is on track. I just worry about stretch goals.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Sabas

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/26/05
Posts: 202

This is the sound of me

4/19/13 3:38:34 AM#25

You know I'm one of those persons who wants to back the game.

But everytime I want to this voice in my head says; Remember this is Mark Jacobs.

By that I mean, MJ has a reputation and a proven track record of having these great ideas that in the end usually end up as,

great ideas. Nothing more.

 

CU is all about RvR, great.

But instead of going into the mechanics they have planned for a succesful RvR MMO

we hear about a dungeon  and ducks.

I also do not think I am alone feeling this way. As I know he reads these threads I will repeat it once again.

 

Dear mr Jacobs,

explain to us how you are going to make CU into a succeful RvR game that avoids the pitfalls of previous attempts.

  Scalpless

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1228

4/19/13 3:55:26 AM#26
Originally posted by Fendel84M
Originally posted by Axxar
1 mil isn't enough for the game he wants to make, so that would be a bit of a problem if he only got 1 mil.

Better than zero though if he doesn't reach 2 mil.

Kickstarter doesn't work that way. If you don't reach your goal, you get nothing.

  PerfArt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 863

4/19/13 3:58:13 AM#27
Pandamin, there is such a staggering amount of content on the KS, CSE's site, and game site interviews that addresses those things, that if you are actually into the game concept yet have not read/heard the answers to that question, it is hard to know where to start without a lot of spare time.

No disprespectful tone intended, but he has addressed your question, and quite humbly. Nutshell: he knows he made mistakes. Admits said mistakes. Owns up. States that things were learned from said mistakes, and that he is dedicated to not repeating them, but that because he loves online games that he wants to try again, and BAM here is the concept.

Now, that might not be enough for some. And that is, of course, perfectly fine. However, he has addressed the issue you are referring to.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4508

4/19/13 4:02:39 AM#28

Dunno if it'll happen or not.

However, what tends to happen w/ Kickstarters is a fairly massive funding push at the last minute. Most kickstarters don't make the majority of their goal mid-way through the pledge. Most of the funds come at the beginning & end of the kickstarter. I'd expect to see another big push ~a week from now.

That said, whether or not that last minute push will be enough, remains to be seen.

  Sabas

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/26/05
Posts: 202

This is the sound of me

4/19/13 5:19:32 AM#29
Originally posted by PerfArt
Pandamin, there is such a staggering amount of content on the KS, CSE's site, and game site interviews that addresses those things, that if you are actually into the game concept yet have not read/heard the answers to that question, it is hard to know where to start without a lot of spare time.
 

Honestly,

 

I have read and seen everything there is.

On the website and on the KS page.

 

Nowhere is it explained how they are planning to avoid past mistakes.

 

edit: to clarify, yes we know what whent wrong before, everybody knows. But not once is he specific in HOW to do it differently.

 

  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/19/13 6:54:50 AM#30

Originally posted by andre369
Ugh, I have my doubts... What happens if it doesn't reach 2 million? I would love to play a PvP MMO but right now it doesnt seem like it will happen...

MJ said in his last video in the KS updates to not panic. He has major updates incoming, at the scale of The Depth.

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by Maric
Did you see how much Garriot's Shroud of the Avatar gained in it's last 5 days?  Star Citizen?  Pathfinder Online?  It's easily doable.

Shroud of the Avatar reached to a larger audience though. For one, non MMO Ultima fans and classic Single Player RPGers. Garriot is a bigger name in the gaming industry. And the game will contain a lot of features that appeal to a very broad range of playstyles.

CU is really targetting a niche audience, which is fine. But can a niche target bring 2mil? Garriot's game only barely reached 2 million on the last day. I know myself I have fond memories of DAOC but the lack of any PvE turned me off. I'm not saying he should cater to me or anyone else, just stating my opinion and i'm sure the opinion of at least a few others.

It's sad because he should have just set a 1million goal and hoped for 2. I'm willing to bet Kickstarter gets a bigger cut of the surplus pledges. Otherwise why would anyone set their goal higher than like $1 knowing that they could potentially not get anything.

There will be PvE, did you see the video about The Depth? I think you may really like it :)

  meddyck

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1108

4/19/13 7:16:46 AM#31
Originally posted by Pandamin

Nowhere is it explained how they are planning to avoid past mistakes.

Here's a few past mistakes and how they will be avoided:

  1. WAR had 2 factions. CU will have 3 factions.
  2. TOA. CU has no PvE or loot drops.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  BowbowDAoC

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 482

4/19/13 7:39:17 AM#32

Torment raised nearly a million in last 4 days. 

Edit : Sorry, closer to 800,000 not amillion.

Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2423

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

4/19/13 7:45:43 AM#33
Originally posted by morbuskabis

The thing is, that the EU crowd can only back when we hit the 2 million goal, because at that point PayPal will be allowed. There are a lot of ppl in EU whant to support this game but don't have credit card. Quite some ppl in my guild whant to pledge but can't for that reason.

Its sad that MJ did not give the EU ppl the chance to pledge on his official homepage with PayPal. The PvP crowd in EU is strong and is as big as the NA.

Still hope we can make it to the 2 million....

 

MJ has already said why he hasn't done that. People would be charged immediately from paypal, whereas from kickstarter you only get charged if it funds. When it funds though, those that wan to pledge can with paypal.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  morbuskabis

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/05
Posts: 298

4/19/13 7:48:00 AM#34


Originally posted by Ulorik

Originally posted by morbuskabis The thing is, that the EU crowd can only back when we hit the 2 million goal, because at that point PayPal will be allowed. There are a lot of ppl in EU whant to support this game but don't have credit card. Quite some ppl in my guild whant to pledge but can't for that reason. Its sad that MJ did not give the EU ppl the chance to pledge on his official homepage with PayPal. The PvP crowd in EU is strong and is as big as the NA. Still hope we can make it to the 2 million....  
Don't know where you get this idea from.

Anyway, most RvR starved gamers who look fondly back to DaoC do have this thing called Credit Card, thats how I did my backing from the UK at least.


There is a country that is called Germany. It happens, that quite some folks there don't have Credit Cards. Just because you not aware of that, dosn't mean its not true...

I'm not from there, but my guild is mostly german and they don't own a CC.

-Massive-Industries- Heavy Duty

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2232

4/19/13 7:49:26 AM#35
Originally posted by meddyck
Originally posted by Pandamin

Nowhere is it explained how they are planning to avoid past mistakes.

Here's a few past mistakes and how they will be avoided:

  1. WAR had 2 factions. CU will have 3 factions.
  2. ...

Of all the things... this is the 'lamest'.

What follows is IMHO (so if you can give me info showing me the error of my ways please do)

RvR in WAR didn't fail because it only had 2 factions.

It failed because of population imbalance.  Population imbalance isn't fixed by having 3 factions, or 4 factions, or three factions and a 4th 'faction' that just acts as a 'spoiler'... or eleventy billion factions.

Population imbalance is something that will always happen (not quite true - I have a solution - but it cannot work in this case) so what RvR game designers need to do is;

accept that it will happen

accept that gamers are arseholes and like to win (particularly the PvP crowd)

think about what game mechanics they can use to 'balance' out games when this happens.

 

They also need to think about how far they want to take this 'balancing'.  It can be taken too far.  When players organise an attack... plan for days or weeks... spend weeks building up resources... think about tactics and objectives... all that shouldn't be taken away from them in the name of 'balance'.

OTOH - when a side is beaten to a pulp - they need some kind of respite to get back on their feet - paying players don't pay to be targets 100% of the time.

And that's the challenge for RvR game designers.  But if your one and only answer is "We will have THREE realms!  THAT will fix it!"  Then no... sorry.

 

And some game settings would be easier than others too:

WH40K for example would be dead easy to 'balance'.  But not the way Vigil was going with it. 

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  Rhazmuz

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/12
Posts: 192

They say you are what you eat.. But I dont remember eating a fu**ing legend!

4/19/13 8:02:15 AM#36

Im quite interested in this more or less de facto fact which alot bring up, which is that "all other KS projects had a huge influx in the last days, so you dont need to worry, we will fund. Just look at xx xx xx", with xx being references to other projects. 

Now Im interested in how valid this proposition really is. I mean do we have enough empirical evidence to say this is a life cycle that all KS projects go through, or are people only reliening on some part of the KS history in order to bring about this idea that all KS projects get a huge influx in the last days, when in reality maybe only 50% does?

And more importantly, does it even make sense to infer anythign from prvious KS projects, which all whwre unique and thus might draw in a completely seperate crowd.

im not saying CU wont fund, even tho pledging has stalle dquite abit since day 5 or something, Im just questioning how much you can rely on previous KS projects to assure yourself that CU is in no danger of not funding, whne in fact it might easily be.

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/19/13 8:08:34 AM#37
Originally posted by Gyrus
Originally posted by meddyck
Originally posted by Pandamin

Nowhere is it explained how they are planning to avoid past mistakes.

Here's a few past mistakes and how they will be avoided:

  1. WAR had 2 factions. CU will have 3 factions.
  2. ...

Of all the things... this is the 'lamest'.

What follows is IMHO (so if you can give me info showing me the error of my ways please do)

RvR in WAR didn't fail because it only had 2 factions.

It failed because of population imbalance.  Population imbalance isn't fixed by having 3 factions, or 4 factions, or three factions and a 4th 'faction' that just acts as a 'spoiler'... or eleventy billion factions.

Population imbalance is something that will always happen (not quite true - I have a solution - but it cannot work in this case) so what RvR game designers need to do is;

accept that it will happen

accept that gamers are arseholes and like to win (particularly the PvP crowd)

think about what game mechanics they can use to 'balance' out games when this happens.

 

They also need to think about how far they want to take this 'balancing'.  It can be taken too far.  When players organise an attack... plan for days or weeks... spend weeks building up resources... think about tactics and objectives... all that shouldn't be taken away from them in the name of 'balance'.

OTOH - when a side is beaten to a pulp - they need some kind of respite to get back on their feet - paying players don't pay to be targets 100% of the time.

And that's the challenge for RvR game designers.  But if your one and only answer is "We will have THREE realms!  THAT will fix it!"  Then no... sorry.

 

And some game settings would be easier than others too:

WH40K for example would be dead easy to 'balance'.  But not the way Vigil was going with it. 

You obviously do not comprehend the way 3-faction dynamics work, in RvR.   From your post, you clearly did not play DAoC, so you don't have a clear frame of reference to understand this.

2 is stupid, and where you really get population imbalances.  3?  3 you do actually have spoilers.  While the system isn't perfect, it works 95% better than a 2-faction system.

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

4/19/13 8:13:06 AM#38

SO far the CU kickstarter has followed the trend of past games that funded through kickstarter. Big surge at beginning, lull in middle, and big surge at end (from people on the fence not wanting to miss their chance, diehard fans upping their pledge, etc...).

 

The question is, will the final few days bump be enough to push it over 2 million, and if so will it hit stretch goals.

 

I sincerely hope it does, because at this point this game is the only option left for me out there in the mmo space.

 

All the others have gone themepark / super casual friendly, and nothing is interesting anymore. There's some pretty graphics, some pretty explosions and scenery, but after the ooo and aahs of that wears off, you realize that fundamental enjoyable gameplay, that even games as far back as 2000 are missing big time from modern mmos.

 

I just wonder, do all these bashers of CU understand that many of us that want this, NOBODY is offering this out there in the market. You want to deny us the ONE person trying to offer what we want?

You have dozens of themepark mmos. Let us at least have ONE of the type we want haha.

 

At this point anything can happen though. It's entirely possible it hits stretch goals, its entirely possible it barely hits the goal, and its entirely possible it hits like 1.6 or 1.7.

 

Only time will tell.


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

4/19/13 8:18:38 AM#39


Originally posted by Rhazmuz
Im quite interested in this more or less de facto fact which alot bring up, which is that "all other KS projects had a huge influx in the last days, so you dont need to worry, we will fund. Just look at xx xx xx", with xx being references to other projects. 

Now Im interested in how valid this proposition really is. I mean do we have enough empirical evidence to say this is a life cycle that all KS projects go through, or are people only reliening on some part of the KS history in order to bring about this idea that all KS projects get a huge influx in the last days, when in reality maybe only 50% does?

And more importantly, does it even make sense to infer anythign from prvious KS projects, which all whwre unique and thus might draw in a completely seperate crowd.

im not saying CU wont fund, even tho pledging has stalle dquite abit since day 5 or something, Im just questioning how much you can rely on previous KS projects to assure yourself that CU is in no danger of not funding, whne in fact it might easily be.




Just browsing through KickTraq and there is a tendency for funded games to get a boost near the end. That's the thing though, prior to that last boost, unfunded and funded games look the same. We won't know if it's going to happen until it actually happens.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Rhazmuz

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/12
Posts: 192

They say you are what you eat.. But I dont remember eating a fu**ing legend!

4/19/13 8:25:22 AM#40
Originally posted by Tuktz

SO far the CU kickstarter has followed the trend of past games that funded through kickstarter. Big surge at beginning, lull in middle, and big surge at end (from people on the fence not wanting to miss their chance, diehard fans upping their pledge, etc...).

 

The question is, will the final few days bump be enough to push it over 2 million, and if so will it hit stretch goals.

 

I sincerely hope it does, because at this point this game is the only option left for me out there in the mmo space.

 

All the others have gone themepark / super casual friendly, and nothing is interesting anymore. There's some pretty graphics, some pretty explosions and scenery, but after the ooo and aahs of that wears off, you realize that fundamental enjoyable gameplay, that even games as far back as 2000 are missing big time from modern mmos.

 

I just wonder, do all these bashers of CU understand that many of us that want this, NOBODY is offering this out there in the market. You want to deny us the ONE person trying to offer what we want?

You have dozens of themepark mmos. Let us at least have ONE of the type we want haha.

 

At this point anything can happen though. It's entirely possible it hits stretch goals, its entirely possible it barely hits the goal, and its entirely possible it hits like 1.6 or 1.7.

 

Only time will tell.

I dont think anyone has anything against you, or want to deny you pleasure from this kind of game.

However there simply might not be a big enough crowd to make it feasible, which is tough one to swallow. When you find hostility against the game on forums etc, I think it has more to do with people being generally fed up with all the threads etc about getting more people to pledge to the game.

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