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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Enjoyed this amazing game that is... until today

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351 posts found
  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

4/17/13 5:27:01 PM#141
I agree with you OP, that is part of the reason I no longer have any real want to play GW2. I started to feel like a carbon copy of the next class. I figured it out fairly quickly though because I like to dable in every class to see which one I belong to more. The more classes I tried, the more I got annoyed because I realized that they had no role.
  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1952

4/17/13 5:44:13 PM#142
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by GenreNinja

I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.

 **snip**

You hit the nail on the head in my book.  The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content.  There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression.  At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities.  It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line. 

I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different.  For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly.  I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists.  I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game.  I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game.  The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.

Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.

The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.

The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.

How arrogant of you to assume it's about ego.  Frankly, it's fun and interesting to be something that I am not in real life, thank you very much.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4805

4/17/13 6:00:53 PM#143
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by GenreNinja

I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.

 **snip**

You hit the nail on the head in my book.  The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content.  There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression.  At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities.  It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line. 

I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different.  For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly.  I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists.  I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game.  I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game.  The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.

Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.

The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.

The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.

How arrogant of you to assume it's about ego.  Frankly, it's fun and interesting to be something that I am not in real life, thank you very much.

Chill out w/ the insults, and look at how games have been designed over the past decade. Count how many achievements games give nowadays which are meaningless. Pay attention to how many games praise the user for every little thing.

It is about ego, and I'm hardly the first person to notice this. This isn't a new phenomina, it's just much more apparent now that it's been going on for quite a long time. Just think about it.

For example, God of War. Hugely successful game. But it rewards basic button mashing with a feeling of being a god. Nothing of the game really challenges you. It can be fun, but it rewards you for doing almost nothing. If you were to take away that feeling of badassery, and replace it with an actual challenge, how many people do you think would still enjoy it? After all people like to feel good about themselves, and that's what most of these games are designed to do.

Combine the fact that people like to feel good about themselves, with the fact that people (in general) will always lean towards the easiest solution to any given situation, and it's no wonder that games like God of War are so popular. From this you can also see the problems with trying to introduce more challenging games in such a climate.

Try to push a game that favors skilled player and challenges over a game where you can push a button and feel like a god, and you see the situation we're talking about right now. You can choose to be offended by that, but it's the reality of the gaming environment atm.

GW2 is basically the MMO version of this. I'm not saying this is a game for everyone (and never have), but it is a game that sacrifices some of that feeling of being 'powerful' in favor of a system which allows more skilled players to shine on their own merits, instead of the game's.

  gylnne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/07
Posts: 324

4/17/13 6:09:23 PM#144
Originally posted by Hokie

Cant fault his post or the reason why he quit. Although I wanted to at first. That is until I read the whole thing.

 

I feel the same way with MMO in general. The developers are taking more and more away because they think they know what I want. The want to simplify everything because tehy think their core audience are 10-13 year olds and offering to many choices makes the game confusing.

I get that feeling out of almost every MMO I play. What happened to complexity, allowing me to choose?

 

You know why there isnt a two-handed ax in GW2? Because there doesnt need to be, doesnt matter if it adds depth, doesnt even matter if it could be made to mirror a two-handed sword in abilities and actions.

And its the same reason you dont see pole arms in all their awesome variations, somewhere along the lines they decided "more choice" is bad for the game.

Because they know what you want better than you do.

Wow sometimes other people are better with words than I am, agree:)

  azurrei

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 66

4/17/13 6:16:49 PM#145
Agreed, OP.  The game overall is very good but it has too many flaws.  One of larger flaws of the game is as you and others have described - the game feels hollow.  One of the reasons it feels hollow is, without a doubt, the lack of any real class roles.  Epic boss fights are...not so epic because they have to be designed with the idea that there will be zero coordination - essentially, everything becomes a zerg fest.  I also don't care for the downed mechanic, never have and never will.  It is very much a simple game for simple minds.
  eyelolled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3097

I am more than some of my parts

4/17/13 6:47:44 PM#146
Originally posted by azurrei
Agreed, OP.  The game overall is very good but it has too many flaws.  One of larger flaws of the game is as you and others have described - the game feels hollow.  One of the reasons it feels hollow is, without a doubt, the lack of any real class roles.  Epic boss fights are...not so epic because they have to be designed with the idea that there will be zero coordination - essentially, everything becomes a zerg fest.  I also don't care for the downed mechanic, never have and never will.  It is very much a simple game for simple minds.

Interesting how all those "simple minds" manage to do dungeons and bosses without zerging, whilst you apparantly cannot.  Now I am definately not saying that you're stupid. That is not at all what I am suggesting.  I'm just saying that you seem to find it difficult doing things that other people manage to do.  

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  MidBoss

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/03/09
Posts: 95

4/17/13 7:09:56 PM#147

There's a lot of posts in this thread saying the lack of a trinity and defined roles means you need to have a strategy and play better at a result.

While yes, this would be true, There are almost zero fights that actually require you to.  THAT is *my* problem with the game.

Everything short of high level fractals you can simply throw yourself at until it falls, while the person the boss/mobs targets runs around.

The game really needs to add fights and encounters that require something from the team, but they can't because they've backed themselves into a corner with their "everyone can play however they want" philosophy.

Basically every instance and every encounter needs to be built so any group make up and build combination can finish it, this leads to very stale, generic encounters that are just plain uninteresting.

I'm sure many of you may disagree, but as somone that plays MMOs for group instances and challenging encounters, that's what I feel.

 

  KaiserPhoenix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 66

4/17/13 7:35:09 PM#148
Originally posted by MidBoss

There's a lot of posts in this thread saying the lack of a trinity and defined roles means you need to have a strategy and play better at a result.

While yes, this would be true, There are almost zero fights that actually require you to.  THAT is *my* problem with the game.

Everything short of high level fractals you can simply throw yourself at until it falls, while the person the boss/mobs targets runs around.

The game really needs to add fights and encounters that require something from the team, but they can't because they've backed themselves into a corner with their "everyone can play however they want" philosophy.

Basically every instance and every encounter needs to be built so any group make up and build combination can finish it, this leads to very stale, generic encounters that are just plain uninteresting.

I'm sure many of you may disagree, but as somone that plays MMOs for group instances and challenging encounters, that's what I feel.

 

 

exactly. Classic rifts soul system ( not so much storm legion) gave you tons of utility by allowing you to change into many roles. Healer needs help with healing? Rogue changes to bard and supports with heals and buffs. Want a ranger with stealth? here you go. Want a cleric who can dps decently and heal the group when burst heals are required? There you go.

tsw had a great role system aswell and nightmare dungeons are tons of fun and challenging without being zergy or mindless.

 

gw2 on the other hand, everyone is a jack of all trades, no1 is special

  Destac

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/12
Posts: 33

4/17/13 7:42:17 PM#149

The biggest issue with Guild Wars 2 like most mmo's there is no end game content nothing to strive for. I got 1 level 80 and said i don't want to make another class and play the same game again. So I got my guardian level 80. At the moment I hit 80 i had a full set of gear from AC with weapons and they had all the runes and sigils in. 

 

After that I was like what now? I do not see the point of the game, WvW and get what? Legendary weapon? Is the time worth is to me no. Every theme park MMORPG fails, and no developer has figured this out. Why spend 5+ years making a game to were I can blow through it all in a month. It does not make sense. Then they give the players tools to make content but that fails BECAUSE those tools are very limited and not rewarding. 

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 640

4/17/13 7:57:31 PM#150
Originally posted by Deivos
Originally posted by aesperus

You're mostly right, but it wasn't because of symbolism / chivalry, though I can see where one might draw that conclusion.

Swords are just a much more well balanced weapon. There's a reason the sword + shield combo was so common for so long, and it had nothing to do w/ symbolism. It's a VERY tough combo to beat in a melee fight 1 on 1. Heck, even the greatsword (claymore) was more balanced than bringing around a battle axe. Axes in general are very offensive weapons, with little-no defensive capabilities. They're main strength came from penetrating armor / shields, except they also had the annoying habit of getting wedged into both, in addition to being extremely heavy.

In short axes are one of the slowest and most 1 dimensional weapons a fighter could use. It's main strength (armor / shield penetration) was often outshined by blunt weapons, which were not only easier to wield, but also recovered from strikes much faster. That's the reason why you don't see many true warriors running around with an axe. They almost always run with at least some type of sword, because of the versatility.

Methinks you skipped the part where I mentioned that. :p

 

"This is also a mindset that's coupled with the way in which a weapon would get used. The greatsword was again a common warrior weapon as it was dual purpose sword and pike. Likewise the longsword and bastard sword were common because they were 'hand and a half' blades, something a fighter could situationally alternate the way they weild the weapon."

 

Symbolism wasn't the only aspect I mentioned, it was meerely the first.

 

Also stevebombsquad, please don't make inane remarks.

Please refrain from posting your unqualified "expert" opinion so that you disagree with someone. To him it is iconic.... did you really need to post your diatribe with the "let me educate you" tone...??? 

 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  kjempff

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 754

Make worlds not stories

4/17/13 8:02:16 PM#151

Sound like good ole burnout. You went all in and it was fun, you invested your time and energy. Unconciously you started looking for the flaws, and eventually it was too much. That burnout you describe reminds me on my last WoW burnout when cataclysm landed.

Happened to me in many games and even several times in some games, returning, going nuts, burning out.. Tried it with Diablo2, Everquest, WoW, Vanguard, PoE and numerous older games from the 90ies. All games has its problems, and you seek them when you are burning out to have an excuse to quit.

So you found GW2's problems. Maybe you will return some day and see what it does well. I dont play gw2 so I dont know the specifics, just that burning out happens but it is not always permanent.

  eyelolled

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3097

I am more than some of my parts

4/17/13 8:15:48 PM#152
Originally posted by KaiserPhoenix

 

gw2 on the other hand, everyone is a jack of all trades, no1 is special

That statement is completely wrong.  Sure you can make a rounded character, but you can also make a very specific character. 

My necro is using a wells build - condition management, dps and heals.  This is an unconventional build that is not effective for solo play but makes a huge difference in group play.  This build makes melee tanks work as it is designed completely for utility.

 

My warrior is running my own version of a dw tank build, focusing on stuns and kd. It's a low dps build but can handle alot of abuse. Can't heal hardly at all.

 

My ranger runs sword and torch and is specifically a trap build. Simply fun to play dps with lots of condition damage.

 

My ele is a support dps with a healing boosted up high instead of dps and cond damage.

 

My thief is usually full out dps, but in some dungeons I've ended up having to run for cc instead.  Take for example the AC dungeon. When you come across the skelk groups the breeders can produce alot of extra mobs, but they themselves do little damage. As a thief, I interrupt the spawn skill and solo them down while the rest of the party works on the mobs that do substantially more damage.  In that fight, that is my role.  In other fights, my role will change. 

There is distinct roles that can be played, and when you are working with a group, those roles need to be filled and be filled well or you end up wiping a lot.  Some people have problems understanding what they need to do, but that doesn't mean there isn't specific things they SHOULD be doing, and specific roles they should be fulfilling.

 

GW2 works with the philosophy that there are many ways to approach a problem, but to do it well each player really should know his class, and know the fight and know what role they need to fulfill.

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

4/17/13 8:47:10 PM#153
Biggest issue with the game is the lack of tutorials / information as shown in this thread. Players not knowing about how the game works because the game never tells you. Its all buried in fan sites. To Anet's credit they acknowledge the issue.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3677

4/17/13 8:50:13 PM#154
Lol the game takes you by the hand , what else do you need, breadcrumbs?

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1952

4/18/13 1:24:13 AM#155
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by GenreNinja

I think the best way I've heard it expressed is, although GW2 is a wonderful game, it lacks power. For me too, it has comprised a big part of my gaming life over the last several months... Once my Warrior hit 80... I was in the mid 40s of my elementalist when i began to feel the same disconnect. i logged off my elementalist to log into my warrorior to help some guild mates when I realized... i don't feel very strong. i don't feel powerful at all.

 **snip**

You hit the nail on the head in my book.  The game has pointless progression as you are always at the same power level with current and past content.  There is no feeling of empowerment that is so critical to character progression.  At level 80, you can go back to earlier areas and still get your ass handed to you and there really is nothing epic or even special about having invested all that time into reaching the pinnacle of your character's abilities.  It's one thing for a game to offer challenge, it's another when everything is challenging and there is nothing there to give you at least the sense of being a powerful hero or even as an exceptional character within the story line. 

I like versatility within a defined role, but I am not a fan of homogenized classes so while they may appear different, they don't really feel different.  For example, I'm a plate wearing, shield toting Guardian, but I still have to face combat as if I were a cloth wearing Elementalist, having to avoid physical attacks and using hit and run tactics or die horribly.  I'm sorry, but why have plate mail in the game at all if you can't stand toe to toe with your adversary any more than the ranged specialists.  I also can't stand the healing mechanic in this game.  I love to play healing classes, because they can really turn the tide of battle, but I never got that feeling with even the most healing friendly classes in this game.  The game play seemed to be centered more on timely rezzes and I just don't find that fun.

Honestly, this is a problem of perspective.

The reason why you don't feel powerful, is because relatively speaking most other games go out of their way to tell you 'you're powerful' without you actually doing anything.

The sad thing is, as long as gamers need this imagined ego-injection to enjoy games, it'll be impossible for really deep games to pick up popularity. They'll remain a niche as long as players need games to make them feel competent. If you look at some of the better games that have come out recently, some of them (like dark souls) actually go out of their way to make you feel weak. It's the challenge of overcoming that which makes those games good.

How arrogant of you to assume it's about ego.  Frankly, it's fun and interesting to be something that I am not in real life, thank you very much.

Chill out w/ the insults, and look at how games have been designed over the past decade. Count how many achievements games give nowadays which are meaningless. Pay attention to how many games praise the user for every little thing.

It is about ego, and I'm hardly the first person to notice this. This isn't a new phenomina, it's just much more apparent now that it's been going on for quite a long time. Just think about it.

For example, God of War. Hugely successful game. But it rewards basic button mashing with a feeling of being a god. Nothing of the game really challenges you. It can be fun, but it rewards you for doing almost nothing. If you were to take away that feeling of badassery, and replace it with an actual challenge, how many people do you think would still enjoy it? After all people like to feel good about themselves, and that's what most of these games are designed to do.

Combine the fact that people like to feel good about themselves, with the fact that people (in general) will always lean towards the easiest solution to any given situation, and it's no wonder that games like God of War are so popular. From this you can also see the problems with trying to introduce more challenging games in such a climate.

Try to push a game that favors skilled player and challenges over a game where you can push a button and feel like a god, and you see the situation we're talking about right now. You can choose to be offended by that, but it's the reality of the gaming environment atm.

GW2 is basically the MMO version of this. I'm not saying this is a game for everyone (and never have), but it is a game that sacrifices some of that feeling of being 'powerful' in favor of a system which allows more skilled players to shine on their own merits, instead of the game's.

Your assumption was insulting dude, learn to make a point without belitting someone else's motives for playing a game.  By your analysis, all games are about ego, after all, they are about winning above anything else.  Whether they be board games like checkers and chess or single player games or MMOs.  Who are you to say games should only be about challenge and hard work?  If people like easier games, then so be it.  I don't judge you as egotisitical for being hardcore, at least not until you start flaunting your playstyle as the one and only.

  Shadanwolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1895

4/18/13 1:47:40 AM#156

OP

I left the game  around August/September.For me..it was because of how shallow WvW was. How it lacked any meaning since anything you accomplished could and usually was undone by another guild in moments. My refuge...crafting ....became  simply work...as key items needed were random drops forcing you to grind for hours to continue crafting. I  always lagged way behind my characters needs/level.

I think the lack of the two handed axe was a trigger for other feelings that had been accumulaing and then found a way to be expressed.

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 881

4/18/13 4:24:01 AM#157
GW2 is not a game for everyone, which was it was hyped up to be. especially for people who grew up with hardcore nature of older mmorpgs. i loved it for a couple of months, even bought a new computer to play it, but in the end it helped me to realize all the things i truly love about mmorpgs, which gw2 did not have.  Buts its fine. GW2 was definitely a new, worthwhile experience that was worth the money. 

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  Snigerknud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 60

4/18/13 4:40:11 AM#158

I realy like GW2 alot but yes I understand what you are saying..

Th trinity gives not only a good way of doing dungeons it all so give us a char progression...Tanks wanna get better gear so they dont take to much damage..Healers want better healing gear etc....

Thats the one thing I miss in GW2 everything else is so polish..no other game can even compare with the polish of gw2 everything is so well made...

 

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

4/18/13 8:12:08 AM#159

The nice thing about the system GW2 is using is that you never obsolete content so you wind up with far more end-game than a treadmill based system like WoW for example, which has very little end-game at all. (Seriously, the latest raid, some PvP and that's it.) With GW2 all dungeons, Fractals, Guild challenges and missions, WvW, sPvP, world bosses, exploration, legendary objectives... all these remain viable content at end-game which is far more than most MMOs offer once you max out. 

 

Another benefit is the lack of a trinity which allows for more diversified and chaotic fights than the trinity system ever could. Again, let's look at WoW as an example of how the trinity is failing. All boss fights in WoW are scripted. They design the fight, design the script on how to win the fight, invite top guilds into beta test the fights giving them the script, then when the guilds learn the script they create YouTuve videos on how to win the fight and as a result you can watch the fight and know how to win long before you ever set foot in the raid. When you do, you have tons of add ons warning you of this or that happening in n seconds, some going so far as to tell you when and where to move to. It's embarassing and an insult on the intelligence of gamers and their abilities to figure out something for themselves and to adapt and react to changing situations. In GW2 every fight will play out a bit differently since you don't have a hard aggro mechanic or dedicated this or that. You can take any five and go and have a completely different experience as a result. Doing dungeons on my mesmer feels completely different than on my elementalist or necro even though all three are cloth wearers. You're required to be sitationally reactive instead of simply follow a script as a plug and play generic <insert role here>.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

4/18/13 8:18:37 AM#160
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Lol the game takes you by the hand , what else do you need, breadcrumbs?

Can you point to me where the game explains how a 'combo field' works?

How about 'this char has an AOE Heal'?

Also, I'm not sure if saying 'ANet are lying' is going to work out for you though.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

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