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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Poll - would you prefer ESO to be more like the series and a PvE sandbox only?

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168 posts found
  Trudge34

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 389

4/16/13 10:14:15 PM#61
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by Xepo   If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
If PvP is so important to MMO's why are PvP servers the smallest populations?  Seems PvP'ers are the minority.

 

how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp?

pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore.


there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart.

why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later?

i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.

 

 

Yes, people are mad about the "optional pvp" in the game. Not that the game is centered around this optional pvp.

Just like people weren't mad about the "optional auction house" in D3. Not like it had any effect on the rest of the game.

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  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2543

4/16/13 10:18:04 PM#62


Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by DeaconX
Are there sandbox elements to the game at all?

I often wonder about this, too. I have never really thought of TES games as "sandboxes."


Not realy a sandbox but it have elements that are also implemented in most sandbox total freedom open world no guidance no typical quest hubs.

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  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2646

110100100

4/16/13 11:09:33 PM#63


Originally posted by Trudge34

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by Xepo   If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
If PvP is so important to MMO's why are PvP servers the smallest populations?  Seems PvP'ers are the minority.
  how many of those pve servers offer optional pvp? pvpers might be the minority but they are still a huge chunk of the mmo fan base, far too large to ignore. there are a lot of pvpers out there and to not offer it in a game like this would not be smart. why do you think all these other games that didn't offer pvp at launch tried to patch it in later? i honestly don't see why people are complaining because there will be optional pvp in this game.    
Yes, people are mad about the "optional pvp" in the game. Not that the game is centered around this optional pvp.

Just like people weren't mad about the "optional auction house" in D3. Not like it had any effect on the rest of the game.


apples and oranges.

D3's RMAH absolutely has a huge impact on the entire game and made it pay 2 win.

TESO pvp is completely optional and has no effect on the rest of the game other than the faction lock.

  shalissar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/10
Posts: 173

4/17/13 2:21:29 AM#64
Yeah pve/pvp sandbox would be great but given today's current technological constraints, I ain't looking for a minecraft/skyrim hybrid. Realistic expectations and all. And I can't see it being really Elder Scrolls if it were pve only. Most of the ES games let me kill whomever, whenever and for whatever reason I wanted. The only thing I'm picky about is the social fluff, I need to be able to immerse myself in the game with other players for roleplay, on top of some great pvp. Hopefully they have that covered.
  Neherun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/06/07
Posts: 209

4/17/13 6:24:42 AM#65

To set some things straight:

 

The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.

 

The game is focused around the PvP endgame.

 

You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.

 

With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.

 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/17/13 6:59:37 AM#66
That's not true.

They've already stated that pve / pvp and crafting progression is EQUAL.

You are no more "forced" to pvp in TESO than you are say gw2.

Compare and contrast with the multitude of wow clones that really do force you to raid if you want to progress.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  4/17/13 9:05:14 AM#67
Originally posted by Xepo
  If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.

This seems to be the prevelant argument for pvp.  So flawed and arrogant.  So an mmo should have a huge pvp focus, or there is no point to the mmo at all.  Sure.  Because people wouldn't want to group up with friends to tackle some tough PvE content in and Elder Scrolls universe right?  They only would want to kill each other.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/17/13 9:13:58 AM#68
It doesn't have "a huge pvp focus"

They've probably spent MORE time on pve than pvp.

Daoc was a 50/50 pve/pvp game.

You guys are making out like this game us darkfall or planetside it something.

[mod edit]
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3880

4/17/13 9:59:25 AM#69
Originally posted by ShakyMo
It doesn't have "a huge pvp focus"

They've probably spent MORE time on pve than pvp.

Daoc was a 50/50 pve/pvp game.

You guys are making out like this game us darkfall or planetside it something.
[mod edit]

Or put another way, whether they know they're doing it or not, they want it to be yet another cookie cutter MMO with heavy WOW influences.

Zmax is attempting to do an MMO that is a bit different from all the others and the same people who always knock MMOs for being the same old shit are now whining because this one isn't the same old shit.

 

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2646

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

4/17/13 10:05:26 AM#70
It's fine the way it is, thats my vote

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17375

4/17/13 10:26:48 AM#71
Originally posted by Neherun

To set some things straight:

 

The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.

 

The game is focused around the PvP endgame.

 

You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.

 

With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.

 

I don't think you have set anything straight

The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".

Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.

Quite frankly I hope  you haven't  spread disinformation.

Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!

So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3880

4/17/13 2:18:06 PM#72
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Neherun

To set some things straight:

 

The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.

 

The game is focused around the PvP endgame.

 

You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.

 

With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.

 

I don't think you have set anything straight

The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".

Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.

Quite frankly I hope  you haven't  spread disinformation.

Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!

So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.

Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.

We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.

However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.

In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.

But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17375

4/17/13 3:15:10 PM#73
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Neherun

To set some things straight:

 

The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.

 

The game is focused around the PvP endgame.

 

You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.

 

With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.

 

I don't think you have set anything straight

The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".

Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.

Quite frankly I hope  you haven't  spread disinformation.

Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!

So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.

Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.

We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.

However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.

In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.

But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.

Hey it's their words...

there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.

Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3880

4/17/13 4:02:20 PM#74
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Neherun

To set some things straight:

 

The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.

 

The game is focused around the PvP endgame.

 

You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.

 

With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.

 

I don't think you have set anything straight

The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".

Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.

Quite frankly I hope  you haven't  spread disinformation.

Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!

So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.

Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.

We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.

However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.

In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.

But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.

Hey it's their words...

there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.

Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.

I don't doubt that the video exists and it was probably Sage who said it and I'm sure he wants to promise goodness at level 50 for all--except instance raiders that is...but that's another thread.

However I don't believe for a minute that what they're really focusing on as the primary level 50 activity (10-50 can participate but 10s will quickly realize they're missing too many abilities to be competitive -- even after having their stats bolstered -- and will go back to leveling after peeking in) is equal measures of AvA, exploring the other 2 zones, heroic dungeons and adventure zones.

Adventure zones are targetted for after release. Exploring the other 2 areas will consist of doing the same quests people who leveled there did except with bolstered level 50 mobs--not a lot of effort required.

Only the Heroic instances and Cyrodiil actually require intensive and extensive design work.

And if you listen carefully to any Matt Firor interview, it's hard not to hear that the 2 things he always mentions as being most unique about this MMO compared to others is the nearly-classless TES-like character progression and the war in Cyrodiil.

People can believe whatever they want to believe but this MMO walks and talks like an RvR duck. Hence my take on what it's really all about.

However, that is totally different from Camelot Unchained. PvE will definitely be supported here. It isn't only PvP like CU. Still...it's a duck

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4281

4/17/13 7:31:19 PM#75
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Kinchyle
Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.

 

Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world.

As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D

Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.


 

TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game.

in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players.

that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox.

could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike).

does that answer your first question?

as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO.

if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me.

i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character.

that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more.

i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well.

that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world.

the area will be huge as well.

 

Theres a lot of content in Skyrim thats created by the players and you can build houses...In morrowind someone made a Cyrodil mod too.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/9782 One of the best player made quest i have seen fully voiced by actors and different land with new monsters.

Hell there are modders who are working on making it a mmorpg, they even made a whole new city for the online version...

http://forums.skyrim-online.com/portal.php

  Zanthorn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/08
Posts: 92

The problem with games is the "gamers" that play them.

4/17/13 8:12:31 PM#76

Yeap, Here is a video of the Skyrim Online mod in use.

http://youtu.be/8-8FBZHyV0A , give it a look, and see if they could use some help to profect it.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  4/18/13 11:22:03 AM#77
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Neherun

To set some things straight:

 

The game's PvP is not optional; Its a necessity. A lot of crafting materials, possibly even some dungeons reside in Cyrodil, the PvP zone.

 

The game is focused around the PvP endgame.

 

You may stick to non-PvP zones only, but you will lose a large chunk of the game.

 

With these, those who absolutely demand not participating in PvP in their MMO ever. Remove TESO from your waiting list already, this game will not be catered around PvE, its a RvR (*cough* AvA) game.

 

I don't think you have set anything straight

The pvp is optional. You say a lot of crafting materials are located in the pvp zone, which is true but why did you neglect to mention that makine your way through all the pve areas not only gives players more crafting materials and better gear but it also allows skills to become stronger? I do believe they said that there are multiple ways one can improve your character and that a player can either spend their time in the pvp zone or spend it in the pve zone and "not be gimped".

Secondly you don't know if the game is centered around the pvp endgame since there are larger pve things to do in the pve world. If anyting it's more like GW2 in that a player can go to Cyrodill at level 10 (and be boosted to top level) but a player doesn't ever have to rely upon pvp.

Quite frankly I hope  you haven't  spread disinformation.

Specifically, I asked Sage to describe ZeniMax's strategy for keeping players occupied once they hit the level cap at 50. His reply included four main activities: questing in enemy alliance zones, four-player dungeons, adventure zones, and the PvP alliance war in Cyrodiil. Read on for all of the details I gleaned from the interview!

So it sounds like there are "4 main" activities". No "one" is set above another.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

reading over the article it seems that pvp is "one pillar" in the ESO endgame.

Actually I tend to agree with him more than you.

We don't know what resources are found only in Cyrodiil (if any) and I assume they will all be tradable. I think you're right in that it could be played and enjoyed by some without ever setting foot in Cyrodiil.

However, it's pretty clear to me that their showcase is Cyrodiil and the story line points to the 3-sided alliance war there.

In DaoC it was also possible to just PvE and later on, after they strapped-on their water skis and took a flying leap over the shark, they even created co-op PvE servers once Blizzard and WOW had showed them the way to the promised land full of money for nothing and chicks for free.

But it would be hard to argue that DAoC was not about the RvR and it wil be hard to argue against that here as well--level 50 PvE activities notwithstanding.

Hey it's their words...

there are 4 end game activities.. not one activity where all roads lead to.

Additionally, I do believe there is a video itnerview where they indicate that players don't have to pvp. I just didn't "say that" because I can't link to it yet as I need to go through the available videos.

I don't think it's just about their words in that one article personally, I think it's how they are presenting the game to the public and how it's designed at the core.  The main hype has been about the RVR.  The game is DESIGNED for that goal, with the 3 faction setup and faction locked races, plus the landlock early.  It's all tailored around the biggest deal - RvR.  Sure there will be other things but tha't the main deal, at least in my opinion.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2646

110100100

4/18/13 2:15:18 PM#78


Originally posted by Margulis

Originally posted by Xepo   If you want PVE only content then wait for the next Skyrim expansion of a new installment of ES. This is an MMO and most MMOs have PVP in them. I look to play a MMO that has good PVP in it and I am hoping this game will have a nice balance for PVP, which means controlled faction choices. Not really as big a deal as many are trying to make it out to be. Most MMOs with PVP have those types of choices. WoW has faction controlled races yet people still play that game for PVP and PVE. If done well the cry babies will leave to bash a different game after a while and the true players will stick around and make the game great.
This seems to be the prevelant argument for pvp.  So flawed and arrogant.  So an mmo should have a huge pvp focus, or there is no point to the mmo at all.  Sure.  Because people wouldn't want to group up with friends to tackle some tough PvE content in and Elder Scrolls universe right?  They only would want to kill each other.

its only flawed and arrogant because you don't agree. for me personally, i totally see where he is coming because when i play mmo's, i want to see how good my character actually is and pvp is the truest test IMO.

when i upgrade my characters, its much more fun for me knowing i am upgrading them to be better in pvp rather than upgrading so i can run the next tier of raids.

i don't know why some gamers just cant understand that some people play games for different reasons than their own.

that goes for pvp'ers, pve'ers, themepark's, sandbox's. or whatever kind of games you like.

complaining because this game should only have pve or only have open pvp is pretty selfish to be perfectly blunt.

also, i see people saying that games that try to do everything fail and that's also been proven false many times over.

so there really is no excuse not to have a game feature optional pvp if it is indeed truly optional.


  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2646

110100100

4/18/13 2:22:26 PM#79


Originally posted by tkreep

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by Kinchyle Honeslty asking....what MMO has ever been a widely played and popular "real" sandbox? I can't remember one that hasn't been a disappointment.   Also, what about the ESO single player series falls out of the sandbox category? Isn't a sandbox where you can go anywhere at any time? Skyrim very much allowed this. Sure it had a storyline to follow, but you didn't have to follow it to explore the world. As far as the PvP goes...there again. What game has ever done it so the majority loved it (DAoC maybe)? All I ever see is whining about how a certain game or another failed at it. If DAoC did it right, is ESO going along the same lines with RvR? I actually only ever did PvP in DAoC a lot, so I kinda would like to know. Loved DAoC!  :D Just questions...cause I guess I don't get everyone elses opnion of "sandbox" really.
  TES games are quest driven. you can choose not to do them but you would be missing out on a huge portion of the game. in a sandbox game, there isn't quests like that, almost all the content is created by the players. that is why its been coined "sandbox" because you create the content, much like a sand castle in a sandbox. could you do that in TES games? other than crafting gear and potions no you could not (standard in any sandbox and themepark alike). does that answer your first question? as far as pvp goes, i am in the same boat. i loved Daoc pvp but its hard to say how long the pvp will keep me interested in TESO. if there is no way to advance your character like you could in Daoc (realm points) then i would assume it wont last long for me. i know there will be alliance points similar to realm points but i am concerned that it will just be cosmetic upgrades or other things that don't actually advance your character. that was my main issue with GW2...well that and the fact that it was just a huge zerg fest and nothing more. i like the fact that in cyrodiil, it acts as a full fledged pve zone as well. that way people can hopefully still get the open world pvp feeling, even though it is still segregated from the rest of the world. the area will be huge as well.  
Theres a lot of content in Skyrim thats created by the players and you can build houses...In morrowind someone made a Cyrodil mod too.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/9782 One of the best player made quest i have seen fully voiced by actors and different land with new monsters.

Hell there are modders who are working on making it a mmorpg, they even made a whole new city for the online version...

http://forums.skyrim-online.com/portal.php


you are talking about modding, which is also only possible on the PC version of he game.

sure you can make a mod that makes it more of a sandbox, that's great!

but being able to create a mod for a game is not what makes it a sandbox heh


  Deivos

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

4/18/13 2:31:26 PM#80

I do wish TESO was more like the single player game, but I don't think the game could stand functionally without PvP elements.

 

Point to make here being, the TES series has generally maintained either via the main questline or through sidequests the sense of conflict taking place across the territory of the game. The simplest two examples to pull up would be from the last two games.

 

In Skyrim it was relatively cut and dry on the conflict. There were the Imperials and the Stormcloaks. (stormcloaks suck!)

You were given free choice to side with either end of this conflict and push it towards resolution. The conflict itself was a matter representing the fate of Skyrim in the long run. Depending on which side on it has plenty of long term meaning that exists past the actual game.

 

In Oblivion it was the main questline and the direct conflict with the daedric faction of Mehrunes Dagon. This was a fight over the fate of the mundus (mortal realm).

 

Both of these situations were concepts of direct conflict between two factions. It just happens that they took place in a single player game. When translating TES into a multiplayer game it does make sense for these things to become PvP events.

Notably because of the freedom of choice provided in TES.

 

Like in Skyrim, players will have varying opinions of which people they would agree with and fight for, and consequently we can't expect all players to be on the same factions. So either the conflict has to become phased and personal as well, or it can play into a greater community aspect and be a shared PvP experience.

 

I don't see this aspect conesquently as a concept that is opposed to TES, but instead rather can compliment the way the narrative and series tends to work.

 

Mostly my complaints sits more with the way in which things get implemented, and that's a separate complaint for a separate thread. :p

 

EDIT: Will comment on modding.

 

Theres a strong case for it here notably because Bethesda supports it. It's been a longstanding part of the TES series and relation the players have with Bethesda that they have first party and additional tools to tweak the game to their desire.

Sure, modding isn't something particularly inherent to games. In this case though it's been a part of what makes TES so popular for a long time. It's why players on the PC have over a thousand hours in Skyrim and a now almost countless amount of time invested in Morrowind and Oblivion.

To take that aspect away from the series would take away much of the reason Bethesda has such a psychotically loyal fanbase.

I generally consider it a part of TES series sandbox element as a result simply because it's something that's explicitly an attractor to gamers on the PC. An element of the series they expect to be present and utilize.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

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