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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Modders, Hackers, Scripters, and Security...

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55 posts found
  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

4/15/13 4:26:03 PM#41
i think u fanboys should be worried until clarification, instead of attacking the poster, its a valid concern and worth looking since u cant understimate hackers and damage they  can do to an PvP centric game.
  ArcherBullseye

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/13
Posts: 77

4/15/13 4:52:21 PM#42
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
~$

Yes, I think that by allowing in game chat being fully accessible outside of game and chat servers having specific public addresses it makes DDOSing said chat servers easier. 

I'm also making the asumption that if a company as large and as security minded as Sony can get DDOSed then a company like CSE with limited resources is easier to DDOS especially considering how open they have decided to make their chat systems. 

 

I appologize for these concerns but after engaging in online gaming for well over a decade I feel I have reason to be concerned about it. You know, history and all that jazz. 

 

Something as simple as "We don't actually have the chat system fully linked to the ouside chat system. It simply relays the messages between the two servers (Outside and inside) so if the out of game chat server goes down it won't effect the in game chat server" would go a long way to squashing this one issue. 

 


I feel like he has already said that they are separate.  It has been stated in this thread.

The bigger the company the harder they fall.  Sony was an easy well known target.   I am not saying that CU will not get attacked, they will..  But everyone does.  Thousands or cyber attacks happen every day, your computer could be DDOS'ed right now, or being used for one and you might not even know. (since your asking, I assume you could spot one on your computer)  What I am trying to say, is that security is in the forefront of everyone's mind these days and I ASSUME Andrew has the competence to address that.  Also it may not be a perfect system, but I think they will work out some of those bugs as it goes along.

I hope you don't feel that we are attacking you personally.   We are just trying to fill in with the information we have; and that is limited.  For all we know Andrew has not decided how they plan on securing it... since the game is 2 years+ out.  I would love the answer to what you asked, but I also understand it is not likely to be answered, and posting it here seems to be of little help since you have done your own research.

  ArcherBullseye

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/13
Posts: 77

4/15/13 4:54:16 PM#43
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
i think u fanboys should be worried until clarification, instead of attacking the poster, its a valid concern and worth looking since u cant understimate hackers and damage they  can do to an PvP centric game.

 

If you didn't know.. hackers are everywhere... scary I know.   The good ones tend to do large things.. sony, google, credit card companies, etc.. 

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

4/15/13 5:00:46 PM#44
Originally posted by ArcherBullseye
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
i think u fanboys should be worried until clarification, instead of attacking the poster, its a valid concern and worth looking since u cant understimate hackers and damage they  can do to an PvP centric game.

 

If you didn't know.. hackers are everywhere... scary I know.   The good ones tend to do large things.. sony, google, credit card companies, etc.. 

u want to keep them at minimum and dont give them any tools.

  ArcherBullseye

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/13
Posts: 77

4/15/13 5:13:41 PM#45
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by ArcherBullseye
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
i think u fanboys should be worried until clarification, instead of attacking the poster, its a valid concern and worth looking since u cant understimate hackers and damage they  can do to an PvP centric game.

 

If you didn't know.. hackers are everywhere... scary I know.   The good ones tend to do large things.. sony, google, credit card companies, etc.. 

u want to keep them at minimum and dont give them any tools.

First of all, they have all the tools they need.  Telling the world how they plan on securing the game, gives them a head start.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

4/15/13 5:38:48 PM#46

Im gonna bust out with my script and crit everybody in los for 2,000,000 damage...oh it wont work, because the server wont authorise it because that much damage at that distance is impossible for my character...well there goes that plan...

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

 
OP  4/15/13 6:20:05 PM#47
Originally posted by skyexile

Im gonna bust out with my script and crit everybody in los for 2,000,000 damage...oh it wont work, because the server wont authorise it because that much damage at that distance is impossible for my character...well there goes that plan...

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/07/reports-entire-cities-dead-on-certain-realms/

"This afternoon, Paris time, something very strange happened on various realms. Argent Dawn's forums have a long thread about it, but to cut a long story short, everyone in Stormwind and Orgrimmar was killed, NPCs included. It's also been happening on Tarren Mill, Ragnaros, Draenor, Twisting Nether, and no doubt other servers.

Of course, rumors abound as to just exactly what happened. Most people point towards it being a hack, and there's some videos out there floating around that give credence to this theory. Has it happened on your realm? What on earth is going on? And what do you think is causing it?"

 

I would think that the servers weren't supposed to allow that type of thing in WoW either, but with less interaction allowed with the servers by players and a much bigger budget for security measures and such... well it was apparently possible. 

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/15/13 6:35:13 PM#48
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by skyexile

Im gonna bust out with my script and crit everybody in los for 2,000,000 damage...oh it wont work, because the server wont authorise it because that much damage at that distance is impossible for my character...well there goes that plan...

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/07/reports-entire-cities-dead-on-certain-realms/

"This afternoon, Paris time, something very strange happened on various realms. Argent Dawn's forums have a long thread about it, but to cut a long story short, everyone in Stormwind and Orgrimmar was killed, NPCs included. It's also been happening on Tarren Mill, Ragnaros, Draenor, Twisting Nether, and no doubt other servers.

Of course, rumors abound as to just exactly what happened. Most people point towards it being a hack, and there's some videos out there floating around that give credence to this theory. Has it happened on your realm? What on earth is going on? And what do you think is causing it?"

 

I would think that the servers weren't supposed to allow that type of thing in WoW either, but with less interaction allowed with the servers by players and a much bigger budget for security measures and such... well it was apparently possible. 

I wish media outlets would stop using the word "hack" for everything involving a computer.  People just use that word for everything now because they dont know how computers work.

Those "hackers" (lol) used an exploit in the game to kill everyone.  They werent hacking into the server.

None of that has anything to do with what type of UI your client has.

  GrayGhost79

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4888

 
OP  4/15/13 6:49:17 PM#49
Originally posted by Taldier
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by skyexile

Im gonna bust out with my script and crit everybody in los for 2,000,000 damage...oh it wont work, because the server wont authorise it because that much damage at that distance is impossible for my character...well there goes that plan...

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/10/07/reports-entire-cities-dead-on-certain-realms/

"This afternoon, Paris time, something very strange happened on various realms. Argent Dawn's forums have a long thread about it, but to cut a long story short, everyone in Stormwind and Orgrimmar was killed, NPCs included. It's also been happening on Tarren Mill, Ragnaros, Draenor, Twisting Nether, and no doubt other servers.

Of course, rumors abound as to just exactly what happened. Most people point towards it being a hack, and there's some videos out there floating around that give credence to this theory. Has it happened on your realm? What on earth is going on? And what do you think is causing it?"

 

I would think that the servers weren't supposed to allow that type of thing in WoW either, but with less interaction allowed with the servers by players and a much bigger budget for security measures and such... well it was apparently possible. 

I wish media outlets would stop using the word "hack" for everything involving a computer.  People just use that word for everything now because they dont know how computers work.

Those "hackers" (lol) used an exploit in the game to kill everyone.  They werent hacking into the server.

None of that has anything to do with what type of UI your client has.

Okay lol, I don't know why you are bringing up the UI when discussing this. Why would you even think that the UI modding would have anything to do with this? 

 

In any case, with this particular concern I am referring to things like the below statements... 

"Access to characters? Statistics for your realm? The state of the war and frontiers? All there."

 

"But as a general rule, your entire in-game social life and much of your economic life will be accessible from anywhere, in any modern web browser, without plugins, in exactly the same form as when you’re running our big shiny standalone 3D desktop client."

"Our web API is our first and foremost API. That means that anything you can access in-game, you can access and display on your own website, running your own code."

 

The UI issues I was referring to are a seperate issue. The UI customizations allow for scripts that are frowned upon at the very least in a PvP game. Zymurgeist covered these pretty nicely in post #25. 

 

The DDOS concern was about the ability to access the full chat system outside of the game. 

 

I don't know if you are intentionally trying to "confuse" things or if you are honestly having trouble understanding my concerns. In either case I hope this cleared things up. 

 

In any case, the "Hack" in WoW was done with a script and distributed. The poster I was replying to tried to be funny and say he was going to use a script to get massive crits on people and then said he wouldn't be able to due to the server not allowing it. I showed him an example of a script used in WoW to kill entire zones instantly. Of course the whole article for CU was discussing modding and scripting opportunities in CU lol. I'm sure you can see the relevance now... 

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/15/13 6:56:43 PM#50
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Okay lol, I don't know why you are bringing up the UI when discussing this. Why would you even think that the UI modding would have anything to do with this? 

 In any case, with this particular concern I am referring to things like the below statements... 

"Access to characters? Statistics for your realm? The state of the war and frontiers? All there."

 

"But as a general rule, your entire in-game social life and much of your economic life will be accessible from anywhere, in any modern web browser, without plugins, in exactly the same form as when you’re running our big shiny standalone 3D desktop client."

"Our web API is our first and foremost API. That means that anything you can access in-game, you can access and display on your own website, running your own code."

 

What about this concerns you?  You have real time statistics about whats going on.  Its like having inquiry access, but not update.  You actually cant change any of those statistics.

You have access to everything you have while inside the game.  Not more than you do inside the game.  If you cant do something within the game, you cant do it through the web API.

The quotes that you are picking out as scary and dangerous are really inocuous basic stuff.

  gigat

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/24/10
Posts: 606

4/15/13 6:56:49 PM#51

I like the idea, but there's definitely some concerns.  One of the most important rules of programming and designing software systems is "Never trust the user."

CSE would need to make damn sure that they have locked down every possible security vulnerability, otherwise they'll have a mess on their hands.

 

I can see allowing us to access an API via HTML and CSS.  But allowing anything beyond that could get ugly

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/15/13 7:35:16 PM#52

I believe you will need o be signing into your account when using handhelds, and using a browser...

so it's not like you can hop on a browser and stream any guild chat channel there is.....only the ones you have permission for

  Medwynd

Novice Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 25

4/15/13 10:53:16 PM#53

Maybe I'm dense but what is tieing your DDOS argument to the chat server portion?  Why DDOS just the chat server and not the whole game?  How does any game prevent DDOS attacks?

In EVE, iirc, you could use chat realtime via eve voice through eve gate.  You could also send messages via the site, although not real time messages, they were more like posts to something akin to twitter or FB.

Also EVE exposes an ungodly amount of information to the player through their web api, realm status, character information, corp wallets, personal wallets, skill you are training and the ones you have already trained, stats, implants, pretty much anything you would want to know.

  belatucadros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 272

4/16/13 7:09:20 AM#54

Yeah OP is just spewing nonsense.

 

OP - if you are legitimately worried, don't. No more than you would if it was LUA/XML or PERL/XML, whatever.

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  Docmandu

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 59

4/16/13 10:35:54 AM#55

I don't see an issue with using an HTML based UI. It's also not the first game to do this (google: awesomium/berkelium). And really, it's not all that different from games using ScaleForm (Adobe Flash) for their UI. It all depends on what you make accessible from within.

As for hacks & cheats... nothing will prevent cheats and hacking being created. Not having an HTML UI won't reduce the number of hacks being made. With internal testing, alpha and beta available to a large amount of people, you can be damn sure hacks will be available on day 1 of release. It's how CSE will deal with it, which is what is important.

 

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