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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Dispelling the 'easy' myth

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362 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20166

 
OP  4/10/13 2:48:38 PM#321
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by deniter

So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

 

What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

 

I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

Yup. Exactly :)

They should. Or have a few difficulty levels in LFR. It is quite obvious that different groups can handle (and like) different difficulties.

They probably should also extend LFR to 10 man .. so you have greater controll .. like 7 guidies can plug with 3 others to beat say normal mode.

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

4/10/13 2:49:35 PM#322

My guilds motto is:

If its too easy pull more

We do it all the time. I haven't played a game on easy since choosing your game mode became a thing. I always start a game on the hardest difficulty possible. In MMO's my guild and myself are always pushing to complete things as chaotic and difficult as possible. If something is in theory able to be completed under certain restrictions we will do it. If it can be completed solo in theory, we will do it. 

That all said. MMO's are to easy now. Way to easy. Is it a bad thing? Depends on the game and the target audience. Should WoW be this uber hardcore difficult game? No, it was meant to be easy. Should EVE dumb down its game so anyone can pick it up and do miraculous things? No. The game was meant to be difficult and time consuming. It met that demand well and has a stable player base that enjoys that style of game. 

The problem is so many games are going the easy accessible way, that there just isn't anything there for the more difficult seeking players. AI has hardly progressed at all and fight mechanics are all pretty much filtered and seen over and over again. Dont stand in the fire has been done to death. Its so hardcoded into our minds that it really isn't even a surprise when we see it. There is no "Oh Shit" moments when it comes to that mechanic unless your just a blatant moron. 

Fresh fight mechanics and systems that demand at least a small amount of critical thinking would do this genre wonders. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 663

4/10/13 2:52:24 PM#323
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by deniter

So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

 

What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

 

I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

Yup. Exactly :)

There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1625

4/10/13 3:07:19 PM#324
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by deniter

So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

 

What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

 

I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

Yup. Exactly :)

There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

Refer to one of my previous posts:

Thats impossible to do when you are grouping with 25 random players without voice communication. The only way to tackle normal modes is if everyone is on the same page, which is not the case with random queueing. We have all been going on about Heoric mode raids, but make no mistake, normal modes are still challenging as well.

Case in point? The latest LFR wing of t15 had to be nerfed 3 times already (and has only been relased for a week) because the majority of LFR goups couldnt beat it. They even had to change the graphics to make it easier.

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 663

4/10/13 4:32:14 PM#325
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by deniter

So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

 

What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

 

I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

Yup. Exactly :)

There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

Refer to one of my previous posts:

Thats impossible to do when you are grouping with 25 random players without voice communication. The only way to tackle normal modes is if everyone is on the same page, which is not the case with random queueing. We have all been going on about Heoric mode raids, but make no mistake, normal modes are still challenging as well.

Case in point? The latest LFR wing of t15 had to be nerfed 3 times already (and has only been relased for a week) because the majority of LFR goups couldnt beat it. They even had to change the graphics to make it easier.

You're right, and you're wrong.

Back in vanilla people pugged (or semi-pugged, the core raid was probably a small guild or group of friends) MC and ZG succesfully, so i'd say it's definitely doable to pug normal modes, but the reason it can't be done in MoP is that current playerbase has no experience on doing normal raid level content in terms of difficulty. In vanilla everyone who had run dungeons and geared up to participate raids was able to work in raidgroup. You really can't say the same for MoP. For those who have done dungeons from 1 to 90, the natural level of difficulty for raiding is LFR.

Another reason could be itemization. I'm not sure how it works now, but back then you could start raiding even if you didn't have full BiS gear, so you could improve your gear by running 5 mans and grinding repu to make the raid easier next time. So there should be some means to farm better gear instead of nerfing content, but i believe Blizzards new philosophy is "don't let your players fail", so wiping constantly in LFR is out of question.

So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.

  waffleyone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 29

4/10/13 5:18:57 PM#326
Originally posted by Vunak23

-snip-

Fresh fight mechanics and systems that demand at least a small amount of critical thinking would do this genre wonders. 

This guy absolutely understands.

 

Originally posted by deniter

If you're refering to challenge mode dungeons, then yes, i think i could live with linear and challengeless questing if there was challenge mode dungeons without the gear normalization all the way from lvl 15 to lvl 90, AND they gave me gear upgrades to overcome the challenges in next challenge mode dungeon.

Easier way to do this, however, would be just make a dedicated server where everything was tuned up a bit.

I would love a game to death that had challenge dungeons the whole way through. Giving players the option of challenging content from early on is exactly the kind of thing that would give the genre a shot in the arm.

Making a server where everything was tuned up a bit (I assume 'all the everything has more hp/does more damage) wouldn't accomplish this at all.

 

Originally posted by deniter

So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.

Looks to me like a substantial chunk of the playerbase has never been challenged, and when presented with a challenge don't even know how to deal with it, and wipe till it gets nerfed. Awesome.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1625

4/10/13 7:27:36 PM#327
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by deniter

So few people did see Sunwell and other high end raids in vanilla / TBC because most players didn't care for raiding, at all. That's why i find it funny that now the only challenging content in WoW is raids; the type of content most people didn't care in the first place.

What kept me playing and entertained was 5-man dungeons, reputation grinds and some BGs every now and then.

If that is the case, why would most people do LFR?

 

What else would they do at max level? Why not ask 'why aren't they doing normal modes?'

Back in 2006 i talked with my friend who was in hc raiding guild and said how cool it would be if we could queue for raids in same way we do for battlegrounds. So i'm not really against the idea of LFR; i just wish it would be just like normal mode raiding, only queueable version of it.

 

I would like that as well. Just like LFD allows you to Q for regular or heroic dungeons, it'd be nice if LFR allowed you to Q for LFR or Normal raids. It'd be especially usefull for players in small/ friends-only type guilds who want a better challenge.

Yup. Exactly :)

There are already enough complaints about WoW being a "lobby" game. I would rather not see the majority of raid options go that route.

I agree. But we had 40 man raids back then. I wouldn't want to apply finder tools to 5 or 10 mans. I just see it a good way to pug 40 man raids. HC raiding guilds would do only guild runs anyway.

Refer to one of my previous posts:

Thats impossible to do when you are grouping with 25 random players without voice communication. The only way to tackle normal modes is if everyone is on the same page, which is not the case with random queueing. We have all been going on about Heoric mode raids, but make no mistake, normal modes are still challenging as well.

Case in point? The latest LFR wing of t15 had to be nerfed 3 times already (and has only been relased for a week) because the majority of LFR goups couldnt beat it. They even had to change the graphics to make it easier.

You're right, and you're wrong.

Back in vanilla people pugged (or semi-pugged, the core raid was probably a small guild or group of friends) MC and ZG succesfully, so i'd say it's definitely doable to pug normal modes, but the reason it can't be done in MoP is that current playerbase has no experience on doing normal raid level content in terms of difficulty. In vanilla everyone who had run dungeons and geared up to participate raids was able to work in raidgroup. You really can't say the same for MoP. For those who have done dungeons from 1 to 90, the natural level of difficulty for raiding is LFR.

Another reason could be itemization. I'm not sure how it works now, but back then you could start raiding even if you didn't have full BiS gear, so you could improve your gear by running 5 mans and grinding repu to make the raid easier next time. So there should be some means to farm better gear instead of nerfing content, but i believe Blizzards new philosophy is "don't let your players fail", so wiping constantly in LFR is out of question.

So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.

People pug MoP normals all the time. In a pug, a group leader picks and chooses who comes,  and sets rules and stipulations such as each person requiring teamspeak or vent, knowledge of the fights, the right gear, etc..

Your comment literally implies that you have no idea how LFR works, or how they are different than pugs for that matter. LFR literally groups 25 random players from accross multiple servers together, regardless of skill, gear (as long as they glitch out the min ilvl with PVP gear in their bags), experiance, knowledge of fights etc etc..

I did not say normals couldnt be pugged...I said normals cant be "LFR'd"

  deniter

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/08
Posts: 663

4/11/13 3:18:31 AM#328
I did not say normals couldnt be pugged...I said normals cant be "LFR'd"

I do know how LFR works and i agree. You can't form a random raidgroup for normals, partly for the reasons i said above.

What you could do is to design LFR for normals a bit differently, like give a raid leader a list of queued players and let him pick the fill ups manually, or something like that.

Most people who didn't raid were not willing to do a long term commitment to show up every saturday and sunday at 7 o'clock sharp, but i'm sure there was enough geared up players at any given time on every server who could have filled up the missing spots, or even start a new raidgroup from scratch. I can't see how this was different in MoP. You just can't tell if a player is good enough for normals or not, since everyone is entitled to the best gear available, so item level can't be used to measure a player's skill in group content.

It's funny that the only type of content that would have needed a tool to help form groups was never implemented. LFG tool for 5 mans was nice, i admit, but it was never really necessary. They wouldn't have needed to completely redesign the whole game in order to get casual players, like me, to do raids.

  acidblood

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 245

4/11/13 3:34:32 AM#329

I did play KoA on hard, it was the only difficulty mode I did play on, and it was still way too easy. I don't mind that games have an easy mode, or that most people play on that mode, but when you include a hard mode, make it hard! Oh, and unless hard mode is a new game+, don't lock it behind behind normal mode. I do not want to have to drudge through your game (in some cases multiple times) before it becomes worth playing.

On the subject of MMOs being too easy; when you can do content faster solo than you can in a group it's too easy. That's not to say that there should be no solo content, but it should be challenging enough that if I see someone else doing that same content I should want to group up with them... in most MMOs recently grouping is basically a burden.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20166

 
OP  4/11/13 10:31:21 AM#330
Originally posted by deniter

So, i think the game isn't that easy for the current playerbase afterall, even if it is for us who used to play in vanilla and TBC.

Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder. Otherwise, MP levels won't be so popular in D3. You can't assume all other players want (or enjoy) the same level of challenge as you do. And i am also quite sure you are no where close to the skill of the Paragon guys.

Hence .. multiple levels of difficulty is going to be an important design factor.

 

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/12/13 1:01:20 AM#331
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon
...Yes. Many MMOs are more like lobby games than virtual world...

 


There is absolutely nothing massive about a lobby game. No wonder the industry is tanking; trying to push non massive content into a genre which describes itself first and foremost as massive.

hmm ..  you don't need "massive" to be successful. Look at all the non-MMO online games.

The most successful is LoL. Is it massive?

D3 sold 12M. Is it massive?

WoT is highly successful. Is it massive?

Even WOW is still going strong. How much of it is massive?

 

 

 

You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense..     & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.

Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.

 

 

Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^..  for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!

 

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1625

4/12/13 9:12:24 AM#332
Originally posted by deniter
I did not say normals couldnt be pugged...I said normals cant be "LFR'd"

I do know how LFR works and i agree. You can't form a random raidgroup for normals, partly for the reasons i said above.

What you could do is to design LFR for normals a bit differently, like give a raid leader a list of queued players and let him pick the fill ups manually, or something like that.

Most people who didn't raid were not willing to do a long term commitment to show up every saturday and sunday at 7 o'clock sharp, but i'm sure there was enough geared up players at any given time on every server who could have filled up the missing spots, or even start a new raidgroup from scratch. I can't see how this was different in MoP. You just can't tell if a player is good enough for normals or not, since everyone is entitled to the best gear available, so item level can't be used to measure a player's skill in group content.

It's funny that the only type of content that would have needed a tool to help form groups was never implemented. LFG tool for 5 mans was nice, i admit, but it was never really necessary. They wouldn't have needed to completely redesign the whole game in order to get casual players, like me, to do raids.

Not sure where you heard that, but thats completely false.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5620

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

4/12/13 9:34:59 AM#333
Originally posted by Phelcher
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense..     & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.

Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.

Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^..  for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!

Not sure if this post should be reported.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5281

4/13/13 3:30:00 AM#334
It is hardly that bad a post, but I do think posters need to Keep Calm and remember it is only a game. That said I have been known to put my rant hat on, once in a while. :)
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20166

 
OP  4/14/13 12:23:22 AM#335
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Phelcher
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense..     & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic.

Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts.

Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^..  for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!

Not sure if this post should be reported.

I put him on "ignore". Do report him. I clearly would not mind. But i found that it is a free world .. and the ignore button works very well.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1437

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/15/13 3:23:46 PM#336


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Phelcher

Originally posted by nariusseldon  
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense..     & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic. Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts. Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^..  for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.


Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3286

Poacher killer.

4/15/13 3:33:13 PM#337
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Phelcher

Originally posted by nariusseldon  
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense..     & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic. Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts. Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^..  for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.

 


Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.

Indeed that seems to be the way a lot of folks like to behave around here. But, I'm not sure how some of the more obvious ones seem to float under the mod radar and for such a long time. Some of the users here are as transparent as a freshly cleaned window.

"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

4/19/13 12:17:13 AM#338
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Phelcher

Originally posted by nariusseldon  
You just skip over posts, that directly rebuttal all your nonsense..     & Narius you continue on, like we aren't waiting for you to try and redeem your honor. People are starting to laugh @ you on other websites dude... ur troll is getting ruined by logic and you can't rebuttal, so you skip... run from post that completely thwart your pseudo logic. Nothing you claim is true, we can read all your post history dude & how you squirm out of posts. Secondly.. & once again... ur asking us to "look away from non-mmo games".^..  for you to try and make a distant point, that has zero relevence here within this thread. PLEASE STOP TROLLING!
Not sure if this post should be reported.

 


Ya he's just stating what everyone who visits here already knows. Antagonists love to bait others in hopes they can get the victim a temporary ban. Happens all the time at MMORPG. Some people live to grief others.

Indeed that seems to be the way a lot of folks like to behave around here. But, I'm not sure how some of the more obvious ones seem to float under the mod radar and for such a long time. Some of the users here are as transparent as a freshly cleaned window.

Under the radar..?  I think the word you are looking for is collusion...  lol

 

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  socalsk8tr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 65

4/21/13 3:54:44 AM#339

Kinda have to dissagree with it being a myth or whatever because when I don't have to step back and think at all anymore or even attempt to strategize during some encounter its become to easy. Lets face theres alot of hand holding in MMO now aday's and tons of tools that help to do just that. Take a DPS meter addon for instance lets just say this thing was never ever invented ever and never will be for gaming. How well do you think alot of people would do without these that used them so furvently to find out the best way to play any one specific character. Which were the best skills to have/use what was the best rotation of those skills and so on and so fourth. Its things like this for me that have ruined most MMO's for me because all the guess work of actual trial and error is taken out of the equation. You could say well thats just something thats time consuming and you could still end up with the same build without it which is true but it takes all the experience you gain out of learning that on a personal level. 

 

Its just some what gotten to a point in every MMO i play I can pretty much guess what to expect I never really have to put any thought into it its all already done. Hell even in firefall the game I've currently been taking for a test drive they tell you right on the gun what its dps is. In all honesty I just want to be challenged I want the chance of their being a failure (no not due to some enrage timer that means the boss will AoE one shot everyone within 2 minutes if you don't kill it) I mean make players actually have to think about the fight. Make the bosses have a weak point that does extra damage or is the only place the boss takes damage. 

 

They need to stop rehashing out all these same stagnant types of encounters and invent something new. Its gotten old and maybe my perspective on gaming has as well but I had a lot more fun playing old games I died in constantly cause I couldn't figure out something or would get stuck in because I couldn't find the right path or figure out some sort of puzzle to progress further. It just seems like the more mmos I try and the newer they are I keep finding myself just going through the cycles of rinse repeat to every encounter any more with minor differences. One boss goes immune spawns adds at 80% hp one boss throws up a reflective buff at 75% hp one boss spawns adds that cast physical and magical defensive debuffs so on and so fourth and the list goes on and on. Most people that have played a good amount of Content in Numerous MMOs will know what I mean its gotten predictable very predictable and its been a good long while since someone has been brave enough to actually try something fairly innovative from what I've seen.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20166

 
OP  4/21/13 7:30:45 PM#340
Originally posted by socalsk8tr

Kinda have to dissagree with it being a myth or whatever because when I don't have to step back and think at all anymore or even attempt to strategize during some encounter its become to easy. Lets face theres alot of hand holding in MMO now aday's and tons of tools that help to do just that. Take a DPS meter addon for instance lets just say this thing was never ever invented ever and never will be for gaming. How well do you think alot of people would do without these that used them so furvently to find out the best way to play any one specific character. Which were the best skills to have/use what was the best rotation of those skills and so on and so fourth. Its things like this for me that have ruined most MMO's for me because all the guess work of actual trial and error is taken out of the equation. You could say well thats just something thats time consuming and you could still end up with the same build without it which is true but it takes all the experience you gain out of learning that on a personal level. 

 

Its just some what gotten to a point in every MMO i play I can pretty much guess what to expect I never really have to put any thought into it its all already done. Hell even in firefall the game I've currently been taking for a test drive they tell you right on the gun what its dps is. In all honesty I just want to be challenged I want the chance of their being a failure (no not due to some enrage timer that means the boss will AoE one shot everyone within 2 minutes if you don't kill it) I mean make players actually have to think about the fight. Make the bosses have a weak point that does extra damage or is the only place the boss takes damage. 

 

They need to stop rehashing out all these same stagnant types of encounters and invent something new. Its gotten old and maybe my perspective on gaming has as well but I had a lot more fun playing old games I died in constantly cause I couldn't figure out something or would get stuck in because I couldn't find the right path or figure out some sort of puzzle to progress further. It just seems like the more mmos I try and the newer they are I keep finding myself just going through the cycles of rinse repeat to every encounter any more with minor differences. One boss goes immune spawns adds at 80% hp one boss throws up a reflective buff at 75% hp one boss spawns adds that cast physical and magical defensive debuffs so on and so fourth and the list goes on and on. Most people that have played a good amount of Content in Numerous MMOs will know what I mean its gotten predictable very predictable and its been a good long while since someone has been brave enough to actually try something fairly innovative from what I've seen.

Long rant ...

Show us your hard mode raids achievement. I doubt you have it. Better yet, you are so l33t, where is your world first raid kill?

This topic is not about "stagnant types" of encounters. If you don't like them, or find them boring .. fine. Don't complain they are easy unless you can do them all, which i doubt. In fact, i doubt you can do them all even if you watch all the youtube strategy video.

 

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