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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » It's easy to see now why/how MMOs have got so bad.

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100 posts found
  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3711

RIP City of Heroes!

4/15/13 12:45:05 PM#41
Originally posted by EasymodeX

I'm not trying to offend when I say this, just being honest, but this game isn't for you.

Then it won't get funded and it will crash and burn.

 

It's not a casual friendly game. Mark Jacobs is making a game for the old school RvR crowd. Players who understand that to have an impact on RvR you need to be part of a group or guild, you have to be dedicated, you have to be unconcerned with the trappings of the modern MMO like tiered kit chasing, and PvE raids every other night.

[mod edit]  What part of player shops makes for better RvR?  What part of player shops has anything to do with a group or guild?

Using bad oldschool mechanics just be be oldschool is fucking retarded.

I don't think you quite comprehend the playerbase of an RvR game.  For RvR to be successful, you need population.  You need the emain zerg.  What kind of player makes up that zerg?  The casual pug.  Without them, the PvP drags, and dies.  If you want to be successful, you need the casual RvR player.

CU is supposed to be an RvR game, not a hardcore game for elitist 8-man no-school no-job, no-life asshats.

 

I understand perfectly what you're looking for and why, but you won't find it here. There are plenty of MMO's out there that will cater to your requirements.

[mod edit]

 

However, solo story lines?  Your story line is you playing your character and experiencing the game itself through everyday interacting.  Sadly, if player needs to have their hand held to tell a story of their own character then the character's story probably shouldn't be told in the first place.

Depends if you want anyone to play the game.  Many players may try CU to see what "oldschool RvR" is about, but if they can't even find where to start or get rolled without doing much, they're just going to leave and play GW2 or something they're already familiar with.

As I said in my post, I would envision the "solo story line" as a 2 hour pseudo-PvE RvR track where it's basically like a solo mission in an FPS game before you go play multiplayer.  You know, so the player's not a complete drag on your team.  E.g. a tutorial.

The one useful thing about PvE in games is that it does give the player some time to become slightly proficient with their class.  That doesn't mean "PvE" should be in CU, but it does mean that the player should have the option (or not?) of some solo / structured content so they don't immediately fail epicly in RvR where teammates are relying on them.

Because that's going to make players like me talk shit to them in chat and they'll be upset and leave the game.  That or I'll get a temp ban from a CSR.

 There is the bit.  AKA the excuse.  IF we say that everything MUST BE FUN, then you can use FUN as the excuse to speed everything  up.  How fun is it to work hard to get that magic item?  It's just as fun if it get in with 3 seconds work than it is if I spend 3 weeks making it.  Because the fun is in the HAVING not the getting.  This is why we can't have good games.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2224

4/15/13 1:00:07 PM#42
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

This is a niche MMO, the rules were laid out, and the vision was shared.

 

But this got really popular really fast, and just looking at this forum alone you can see the influx of post wow era mmoers, who just started playing mmos after 2010  because their Xbox was getting old...are just complaining up a storm about this and that..

I want fast travel,

I want an action house,

I want dungeon finders, loot drops,  tokens and quest, solo story lines,  pretty much everyting that the kids who play assasins creed and black ops want. Tons of shallow scripted content and anti community systems that dont belong in MMOS.

 

It is soo easy to see how the devs that just want to sell copies can get sucked into this casual player crap. Becasue it just staggers me the amount of people who want an MMO to be just a socially shallow crapshoot.

 

MJ is a G*d damn savior..  Stick to your guns sir.

  You do understand most of the thing you state you hate about modern MMO's where in DAoC and which helped make it great till MJ the "savior" killed it with his vision TOA.

  Loot drops, AH etc. DArkness falls being a major example of things you seemingly hate. So far from what the majority of you fans are saying there will be NPC's to kill but they won't drop anything. Animals won't drop hides as that would be loot, NPC guards won't drop gold as that would be loot, and player when you kill them won't drop anything. So in effect what your saying is there IS no loot in this game what so ever as noithing drops anything?

  Seems CU will have a clumsy bartering system where players have to sit or stand around possibly for hours bored to tears trying to trade their mined resources for a player crafted item. That in itself will be a pita. (Remember theres no merchants in the game and no loot drops thus no gold to use to buy from players either) While CU is shaping up to be a shell of a game with almost nothing but PVP and House Building (which can and will be attacked and destroyed when you log out) It will rely on players to do some rather cumbersome and time consuming barter/trade of raw materials which can only be gained by mining resourses for finished products ie. Player A: How much for that sword? Player B: I want 10 ore 2 leather and a rare elm wood.  Player A humm I don't have any rare elm wood how about 10 ores, 2 leather and a silver ore? Player B: no sorry i got tons of silver ore: etc etc etc. 

  I imagine CU will go through alot of changes before its released and that alot of the things the fans are currently saying now will change. If not i see it being perhaps even more niche then DArkfall

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

4/15/13 1:03:13 PM#43

RvR games are mostly fueled by War.

Oh who am i kidding. They run on tears, complains and misery, everyone knows that. Controversial design choices are necessary, even if it necessitates some(alot)  of inconviniences.

The game needs travel to be harsh and long, painful and risky . At the same time boring as it is exhilerating(because you have to fear having to do it all over again).

The game needs wares to be hard to come by, by close trades. So that we can punish and exclude the nonsocial solo players, all the while encouraging a smaller and tighter community.

The game needs handholding to be minimal. While a personal handholding story that helps you develope your character and find the way to grinder would surely lead to delicious tears as it cuts of just at the point where you need guidiance the most(pvp). It would still be a waste of resources given the titles budget.

 

And yes, i perfectly know that a game without handholding, f2p, auction houses and whatever other crap i just forgot surely can never succeed. Unless that game gets run like EvE that is. Actually EvE is a bigger success than most PvE themepark games imho, sure many eclipse(or have eclipsed in the past) its playercount, but for how long before they vanish into the unimportance of what is maintenance mode? And how many do so without a publisher behind them who is buying them reviews at game mags etc?

Realistically, as a really small studio, you would be stupid to copy ANY or the recent big MMOs or their revenue models. There is no indication at all that its even possible to produce a AAA themepark mmo without a big publisher spending billions just on advertisements, shelf placements and yes reviews(80-90% reviews at launchday my ass).

The only rolemodel you can have, the one company that was in your exact situation. The one glimmer of hope you can look up too is CCPs EvE. If THEY could do it, it stands to reason YOU can do it. Start niche, start small. And then grow. Grow for 10 years, grow your game, grow your company. Don't charge for patches, don't charge for ingame items, clothes or colors. Not for expansions and not for new classes. Just the Sub.

 

Will it work? Hell yeah. Yeah. Well ... unless you mess up that is. The thing is your players may think your stupid, not getting this or that at times or go some wrong way. But they never will feel ripped off, they will always see you try to make right.

I rather keep following a honest fool doing what he believes in forever, than being one single day in the presence of someone brilliant that only applies his intellect at getting at my wallet. Some of the ... psychological tricks ... that get employed by some F2P games are downright sick, especially in the context that they are used to get at children. Why does the state try and protect children from gambling irl, but doesn't care as soon as its in a game? The effect on the brain are the same, addiction and loss of rationality(if i bet one more time i can win it all back, 10 times bad luck in a row, 11 time MUST be a win).

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

4/15/13 1:03:33 PM#44

I was just thinking the same thing OP. I've seen much much more crazy requests and game "should haves"  than your examples even. The fact that people can demand so much from such a small project is mind boggling. People have gotten so out of touch. It's funny, because you'd almost think they think everyone else is unrealistic at the same time. Hard to not be disheartened.

I was just on a poll/post on ESO where 40% of the people that voted on the poll want ESO to be a SINGLE player game. People wonder why a decent game doesn't get made. As if most of these people would even know what to do with a good game.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 1:05:06 PM#45
Originally posted by waynejr2
 There is the bit.  AKA the excuse.  IF we say that everything MUST BE FUN, then you can use FUN as the excuse to speed everything  up.  How fun is it to work hard to get that magic item?  It's just as fun if it get in with 3 seconds work than it is if I spend 3 weeks making it.  Because the fun is in the HAVING not the getting.  This is why we can't have good games.

What the hell are you even talking about?  I just did a search and didn't even find the word "fun" in my post.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11296

4/15/13 1:06:53 PM#46
Originally posted by winter

  You do understand most of the thing you state you hate about modern MMO's where in DAoC and which helped make it great till MJ the "savior" killed it with his vision TOA.

Mark took the fall for TOA but I personally believe Matt Firor (TESO guy) was equally responsible

 

Trials of Atlantis interview with Matt Firor

http://forums.bbbguild.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2289

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3048

4/15/13 1:10:06 PM#47
I've always said real MMO players are sorta masochistic.  We want things to be hard and take (compared to today) ungodly amounts of time to do anything.  We want to be severely punished when we make mistakes and/or die.  We don't want to equip a piece of armor and it lasts forever.  We want more than running the same thing over and over again once you reach the final level.  We want complicated, time-consuming, and "only the most hardcoriest (if that's a word) will do it" crafting.  Imho, that's what a real mmo should be.  None of this logging in for 30 minutes and actually get something done.  If I log in for 30 minutes, I should barely be able to run from one town to the next :)
  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 1:21:11 PM#48

Ok first off it isn't 1 miscellaneous subsystem you disagreed with. You talked about an AH, a dungeon finder, and solo content or storyline. That's 3 areas of disagreement.

1.  The AH is the only significant topic of discussion.

2.  The dungeon finder is pretty extremely obvious that it will end up in the game, although you probably have a different set of mental assumptions going into the words "dungeon finder" than I use.  I am looking more at the group finding system in Warhammer.  And if you're against that, you're an idiot.

3.  Tutorial WILL be in CU, if CU is released.  I'm merely suggesting that a few voiceovers are added with some structured direction.  This seems extremely obvious to me, unless you really want CU to fail 2 months after release.  PvP in MMOs decays due to mechanics or end-game, or whatever.  But it DIES from lack of population, and making the game hard to pick up for a casual player that likes PvP is shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Nobody has told you to fuck off.

Telling me that an RvR game is not for me is that, in as many words.

 

You've stated your disagreements with the game, and Sovrath and I have suggested that perhaps, given your attitude towards the lack of certain features that you consider important being missing, that you would not like the game.

You make a lot of assumptions.

 

You do know that myopic and blind are practically the same, right?

I was going to add a sidenote "(although these are semi-redundant)", but myopia only covers side-vision, so I figured they were different enough that I'd let it go without adding the parenthetical and disrupting the flow of adjectives.  It had a nice cadence.

 

At the risk of further invoking your ire I suggest you take a chill pill and calm down.

I'm pretty chill.  You'll know when I'm actually angry when I make more than 1 spelling/grammar mistake in a post, along with some all caps.

I'm just being honest with my reaction, instead of filtering it.  This tends to get more honest responses.

You see, I feel pretty insulted that a random poster on the internets would tell me that CU is "not for me" because of a disagreement on what is essentially a miscellaneous subsytem.

Because that is what the AH is.  That message to me basically says that the other party is a complete fanboy when they can't coherently discuss the merits / problems with one subsystem of the game.  This is exacerbated by the fact that the only tangential justification behind the "no-AH" is a poorly thought-out statement by MJ, and the delusion that "oldschool is good because oldschool" circular reasoning spouted on this forum.

Under that logic, we should go with max range 9s AOE no-cooldown stun too, because that's so oldschool it gives me a throbbing hard-on.  Oh, and de-leveling.  That's fun guys because oldschool.  Corpse looting too.  And 2D sprites!

CU is about RvR.  The AH is not RvR, and it is not PvP.  It's a tool to make trading more efficient.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

4/15/13 1:26:29 PM#49
Originally posted by Gravarg
I've always said real MMO players are sorta masochistic.  We want things to be hard and take (compared to today) ungodly amounts of time to do anything.  We want to be severely punished when we make mistakes and/or die.  We don't want to equip a piece of armor and it lasts forever.  We want more than running the same thing over and over again once you reach the final level.  We want complicated, time-consuming, and "only the most hardcoriest (if that's a word) will do it" crafting.  Imho, that's what a real mmo should be.  None of this logging in for 30 minutes and actually get something done.  If I log in for 30 minutes, I should barely be able to run from one town to the next :)

Hmm not quite. I have a nice example that explains it i think. Its a RL example of when i was in my countries army:

We where in our 4th week of basic training and it was in the middle of winter(cold but not subzero), had just completed a forced march and now had to cross a pool of something that probably wasn't shit, but certainly did a good job imitating it(im pretty sure things had crawled into it to die). So while i was standing in this liquid hell of gross, down to my chin in the crap and thinking about how miserable i was(you know, weak, cold, broken blisters on my foot and standing in liquid crap) i turned my head to the guy behind me to see how he was doing.

I instantly felt my mood brighten and a big smile forming on my face, i felt great. Why? Because while i was miserable and to my chin in the crapper, so was the guy behind me, and he was half a head shorter, obviously hopping up and down to keep his noseholes out of the crap atleast parttime and spitting out the disgusting crap now and then.

Thats a true story. The lesson pretty much is that its not about having it good, its about having it better. Misery has to be in copious supply, to ensure its there for you to enjoy when it falls on your enemies. The job of the devs is it to make sure it gets spread around more or less fairly.

  evil13

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 359

4/15/13 1:35:28 PM#50

"Progressively more difficult content - harder, more rewarding content is needed, players need challenges and also something to aspire towards. If everyone is special, nobody really is. Raiding in classic WoW is a good example of a working design. This does not only have to mean PvE content, but all content should be progressively more difficult and require increasing amount of cooperation to complete - whether it is about building a city or conquering a difficult raid instance. The hardest content should so so difficult that only few dedicated guilds will be able to take up the challenge"

 

Your "Harder" content is players. The beauty of a pvp based game is that all the content and all the difficulties are provided by the players themeslves with no need for developer's time at all (other than balancing)

Want to be special? Kill a zerg with your full group every day, and you'll be "special"

WoW is a pve game, pve is boring, no one would ever raid anyinstance in wow more than half a dozen time if there wasn't a shiny carrot, and so you get a gear progression.

CU is a rvr game, the content is fun, so you don't really need a shiny carrot (though an impossible to complete progression like daoc's rps is great) PvP provides all the challenges you'll ever need. And it scales too, you can join a zerg and have fun there, or you can try to run a small group/full group, which is much more challenging. Yet it is a natural progression, instead of a forced one like in wow.

  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

4/15/13 1:36:00 PM#51

I have to agree with EasymodeX. His points are well made. It's a sad reflection on the CU community when the responses he gets are "this game isn't for you."

 

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

4/15/13 1:39:06 PM#52
Originally posted by Gravarg
I've always said real MMO players are sorta masochistic.  We want things to be hard and take (compared to today) ungodly amounts of time to do anything.  We want to be severely punished when we make mistakes and/or die.  We don't want to equip a piece of armor and it lasts forever.  We want more than running the same thing over and over again once you reach the final level.  We want complicated, time-consuming, and "only the most hardcoriest (if that's a word) will do it" crafting.  Imho, that's what a real mmo should be.  None of this logging in for 30 minutes and actually get something done.  If I log in for 30 minutes, I should barely be able to run from one town to the next :)

 

Haha, I couldn't tell if that was sarcasm or not, but I actually do have fond memories of runnig from one town to another, getting lost ,and having a great adventure. =)

 

I don't know if it's so much that we WANT things that take a long time, as we miss the ones that actually encourage you to socialize with your fellow gamers.

Those early mmo's, while true had a lot of uneccessarily time consuming activities, also had a lot of components to them that encouraged, or required socialization in the game.

 

I think over the past 5-7 years, mmo's have tried to eliminate/reduce a lot of the things a big majority of players considered time consuming and just a nuisance. However I think when they did this, they also got rid of the ones that encouraged/required socializing.

 

I think there's some middle ground in there, which I hope CU find a good niche in. Don't make activites take retarded amounts of time to do, but also don't make them so easy you never have to talk to another play for anything.


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6093

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

4/15/13 1:44:50 PM#53
Originally posted by WellzyC

 

This is a niche MMO, the rules were laid out, and the vision was shared.

 

But this got really popular really fast, and just looking at this forum alone you can see the influx of post wow era mmoers, who just started playing mmos after 2010  because their Xbox was getting old...are just complaining up a storm about this and that..

I want fast travel,

I want an action house,

I want dungeon finders, loot drops,  tokens and quest, solo story lines,  pretty much everyting that the kids who play assasins creed and black ops want. Tons of shallow scripted content and anti community systems that dont belong in MMOS.

 

It is soo easy to see how the devs that just want to sell copies can get sucked into this casual player crap. Becasue it just staggers me the amount of people who want an MMO to be just a socially shallow crapshoot.

 

MJ is a G*d damn savior..  Stick to your guns sir.

Hmm I play Assasins Creed and Black OPS, but I play them for completely different reasons then why I play MMORPG's. So not really sure why you placed these game in your OP. OR even a reference to kids.

One has to understand that this is the way it is with games these day's. This genre has grown so much bigger then what it was in the old. Sure mainstream internet made it allot bigger. But we can't blame those who are new to this genre of post wow'rs to have expectation of what they know.

Don't forget most of us old school'rs act the same as we hold on to what we knew and what made us fall in "gamers" love with this genre.

You see this genre as being bad. I have 2 nephews age 14 and 19 (brothers) they came to me telling  they started Star Was The old Replublic together, they never set foot into a MMO before, they mostly play single/multiplayer FPS games and as far I know The Witcher 1 is the only action RPG they played and they didn't really enjoyed the game. Yet they were amazed with SWtOR. They talked about forming groups, doing heroics, just exploring the planets, overall all the things they could do in the game. Even though I did enjoy SWtOR for several months it just fell short to me expectations of my needs for a Star Wars MMORPG.

However I do hope MJ makes your wishes come true. Me....too long of a gamer and Camelot Unchained has shown to little to even begin getting somewhat excited. Don't get me wrong I do believe MJ's vision of what he "wants" to. But it's a completely different story what he's able to actually deliver. If he's able to deliver 51% of what he wants the game might become a big "niche" succes.

I have no idea about it's release date, figuring between 4 and 6 years?. Sure I want the depth we had from the old games but I sure as hell want today's or even over 4 to 6 years visuals that amaze me. Sure I am a spoiled gamer aka graphics whore, shouldn't I? I mean gaming since Pong all stages of consoles till ps2 and every personal and homecomputer I can think of till this stage where I have my gaming rig and my work system.

Technoly wise I believe MJ could achieve both depth and a visual pleasing game, but at this point as said he hasn't shown enough to become excited or even consider him a savior.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

4/15/13 1:47:25 PM#54
Originally posted by GreenHell

I have to agree with EasymodeX. His points are well made. It's a sad reflection on the CU community when the responses he gets are "this game isn't for you."

 

Well, but maybe it really isn't? I mean seriously and not in a "go away" kind of way.

Not because he makes bad points, but reasonable ones. Those things ain't the kind of stuff you happen to forget adding to your game and going OOPS after launch, these things are intentionally left out of the design for the game. For bad or good, if you don't agree with design descisions maybe your not the target for the design.

Doesn't even say anything about wether its a good or bad design, just that its not meeting your tastes.

Originally posted by Reklaw

I have no idea about it's release date, figuring between 4 and 6 years?. Sure I want the depth we had from the old games but I sure as hell want today's or even over 4 to 6 years visuals that amaze me. Sure I am a spoiled gamer aka graphics whore, shouldn't I? I mean gaming since Pong all stages of consoles till ps2 and every personal and homecomputer I can think of till this stage where I have my gaming rig and my work system.

Alot closer. Alpha 2014, betas 2015, launch 2015-2016 i believe.

  mistmaker

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/12
Posts: 217

4/15/13 1:56:16 PM#55

diablo 2 and every other old internet game were much more mmorpg than nowadays mmorpg, and the sadest part, those games werent even mmorpgs. mechcommander, age of empires and some co-op rpgs ... the purpose was always playing with other humans.

 

guess, the fascinating is gone, its nothing special anymore. for us c64 gamers it was something special to play with others online. now all people want to play online alone. thats kinda strange. my first mmorpg was AO and i miss the community. never was a night i did not group with random people doing missions and you know what? people communicated in the chat, with strangers!!! there was joking. people stayed hours together. 

 

those days are gone and those mass mmo'ers will never know the good old days. its always bad when companys find out how to make big money with a mass....

 

 

  Tokenaru

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/13
Posts: 61

4/15/13 1:57:34 PM#56
I would like to apologize if I came off as trolling I recieved a warning today.  What I merely meant was I hope all games make it in this genre but with so much competition in the mmo market I would need to see some sort of visual evidence that this game is being developed before pledging anything, Once again if I came off as a troll I apologize to this community.
  EasymodeX

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 152

4/15/13 1:57:57 PM#57

A reasonable person doesn't end up enjoying or disliking a game because of one or two fringe design decisions.

I'm a reasonable person.

Someone telling me to not play the game because of one or two fringe design decisions is not a reasonable person.

That's my perspective*.

* I may be wrong though and some people around here may actually believe that an AH will make or break the game (ROFLMFAO).  Or that a tool to search for groups beyond 10 pages of  "LFG LFG LFG LFG LFG LFG LFG LFG" spam will ruin the game (LOL).

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3127

4/15/13 2:02:23 PM#58
Yep I'm sure everyone agrees. The arguements in this forum are often made for arguements sake.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist)

Now playing Wildstar, AOW 3

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

4/15/13 2:02:26 PM#59

I'd be happy with consignment merchants, even if it makes you run to the stall. It's a better solution than going around right clicking every stall. I also have to agree with the point made about NPCs behind the stalls.... that does seem counter productive. You're not fostering a community by forcing them to run around to what equates to a merchant in any other game except a player gets the money.  

Spellcrafting and alchemy fostered more community than anything, if something similar to those systems into the game it'll meet the goal of community to an extent. 

I do think there's something nice in the idea of hunting a crafter to make awesome gear. At the same time, I know that that's just a nice spin and there's a very slim chance it'll turn out that way, and if it does i'll be stuck chatting up some rping pedo on the top of a mountain. Ok the last part wasn't really serious, just wow/gw2 flashbacks of the region chats.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

4/15/13 2:30:51 PM#60
Originally posted by Odaman

I'd be happy with consignment merchants, even if it makes you run to the stall. It's a better solution than going around right clicking every stall. I also have to agree with the point made about NPCs behind the stalls.... that does seem counter productive. You're not fostering a community by forcing them to run around to what equates to a merchant in any other game except a player gets the money.  

Spellcrafting and alchemy fostered more community than anything, if something similar to those systems into the game it'll meet the goal of community to an extent. 

I do think there's something nice in the idea of hunting a crafter to make awesome gear. At the same time, I know that that's just a nice spin and there's a very slim chance it'll turn out that way, and if it does i'll be stuck chatting up some rping pedo on the top of a mountain. Ok the last part wasn't really serious, just wow/gw2 flashbacks of the region chats.

I think the idea behind the "front-poach-npc-vendors" in your house is to encourage being able to sell items you have in stock without being present(i.e. imagine a mixed timezone server, you might never meet certain crafters because they are in a different timezone).

How well that works out would be dependent on options you can set these NPCs too. For example if they employ your friendlist to apply discounts, ignore list to block sales(or surcharge :D) and maybe a request mailbox where you could order things build, ideally where you have to pay part of it in advance.

If you then connect these NPCs via a global search thingy ... well thats pretty close to how EvE does it(you have to fly to a station to collect your purchases there aswell). If it works for EvE ... especially considering both a "crafting centric" economies.

But it certainly has to do more than "just" be a bunch of npc selling crap in an inconvinient way.

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