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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » how do people level up if population goes down some day

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61 posts found
  Grimbor

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/13
Posts: 24

4/14/13 9:25:00 PM#41
Originally posted by bugmeno

so no NPC leveling, I read that

 

what happens one day, when there are population decreases. Or when I play not in prime time.

looking desperately for a player to fight to level up

???

 

 

every recent MMO I played swtor gw2 tsw and tera you don't run into people for quite some time , this game needs 10 million subs and all of them on one server to make up for missing NPCs

 

or they make a tiny game world much smaller than in other mmos to fill it up with players

A few things, this game won't have the large empty spaces other games have for tons of PvE content.   Since this is a RvR game people won't need to just randomly run around to look for a fight, there will be points of interest that will draw people to conflict.  CSE has said that the leveling will be more horizontal than vertical meaning you should be able to contribute alot more as a new player and not get one hit by some max level character.  But basically server consolidation can fix low population problems up to a point, but if there are not enough players the game will fail.  They are doing alot of work and focusing their efforts on supporting large battles, but if they don't have enough players, well I suppose things just end.  I must be the exception to the rule because mindless PvE leveling ala SWTOR is just so boring to me.  I am hoping CU can give me my PvP fix, and keep me around with meaningful RvR fun and content.

  macellis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/13
Posts: 2

4/14/13 9:31:39 PM#42
There will be stuff to do if it is quiet on a particular night. Building, destroying or farming mats for crafting. If it is consistantly quiet maybe try the euro server. Might b closer to their peak time. I live in new zealand and played daoc for 4 years on a US server and didnt really have problems finding action at off peak hours. On the odd quiet night I worked on my house or gear. DAoC had plenty of PvE to take people away from RvR late night but I never really found it to be a problem.
  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1763

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

4/14/13 10:02:22 PM#43
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Konfess

From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
 

I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

 

Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

 

And i get frustrated having to constantly explain how modern players don't follow this script.  You're going to have dozens of super guilds coordinate where they're going to go beforehand and stack one side so heavily with 24/7 coverage, that the other 2 sides won't be able to do anything.  1 and 2 ganging up on 3 will happen far more than 2 and 3 ganging up on 1.

This is how modern players roll.  They want to win at all costs, even at the expense of the game's health.  They don't see the big picture of spreading out for better competition.

  PAL-18

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

4/14/13 10:13:52 PM#44
Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by Konfess

From what MJ has said on this site in other thread, it is clear he is not worried about game population affecting RvR.  If there is a single server, then all players will be available for RvR.  I think this is the case.  The graphics test demos they have shown are of very high player density. Much higher than what an MMO typically supports on the screen at any one time.  If a realm had a typical level distribution, then this would limit player access to the RvR.  I am again guessing that player level will not be a factor.  

But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side. Once it becomes apparent that one side is always winning, either due to player distribution, or game mechanics.  Then the losing side will suffer player exodus, either to the winning side or other games.  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.
 

I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

 

Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

 

And i get frustrated having to constantly explain how modern players don't follow this script.  You're going to have dozens of super guilds coordinate where they're going to go beforehand and stack one side so heavily with 24/7 coverage, that the other 2 sides won't be able to do anything.  1 and 2 ganging up on 3 will happen far more than 2 and 3 ganging up on 1.

This is how modern players roll.  They want to win at all costs, even at the expense of the game's health.  They don't see the big picture of spreading out for better competition.

O smack,Planetside 2 anyone ? modern players:SOE you must let us change sides and let us keep our items,we are not changing to winning side,no no,I just cant play with my old wife anymore or i am moving to another country not to winning side.

Modern players vs SOE,i think Modern players won.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  User Deleted
4/15/13 1:14:49 AM#45

Now that I think about it, this game may turn out to be great.  I never played DAOC but every friend that did, told me the pvp was superb.  Problem is that I played Warhammer and though I loved my warrior priest, the pop decreased quickly and it was harder to have fun in the open world as many were simply grinding scenarios.

Seems leveling off pvp only shouldn't be a problem if the entire game is focused on activities to support pvp in some way.  At first, having a niche population of die-hard pvpers seemed less appealing to me until I realized that every single player is here to pvp.  If they do a good job on combat mechanics and interesting classes then I'd say player retention will be better than many other mmos that start off with a huge pop only to see it drop drastically shortly after.  Every player in your guild will enter the game with the same overall goal.

Damn I think I just sold myself on this game haha. 

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 762

4/15/13 1:16:34 AM#46
Originally posted by bugmeno

so no NPC leveling, I read that

 

what happens one day, when there are population decreases. Or when I play not in prime time.

looking desperately for a player to fight to level up

???

 

 

every recent MMO I played swtor gw2 tsw and tera you don't run into people for quite some time , this game needs 10 million subs and all of them on one server to make up for missing NPCs

 

or they make a tiny game world much smaller than in other mmos to fill it up with players

Or they just get rid of instances

  taurak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/04
Posts: 174

4/15/13 1:48:55 AM#47

Yes thats certianly somethign to consider with this game too.

When a player logs in, they're going to be headed straight for some PvP. Unless maybe they're a crafter, but even then they will be involved in PvP, whether they like it or not.

You might be safe for a little while, but sooner or later an enemy realm is going to come knocking on your little crafter shop door, and I don't think they will be there to buy your wares :)

I wish we could fast forward to the time this game releases lol. I really wish I could play it right now today.

  evil13

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 359

4/15/13 2:41:27 AM#48

In daoc you can still find rvr action even with less than 1k players online (split between 3 realms) and daoc has pve. With rvr being the only gameplay (crafting aside) there should be even more action than in daoc. It's not like a server will drop down to less than a 100 people in off time.

 

This might be more of a concern down the raod, when people leave the game, but even then, you just merge servers 9whcih is what they did in daoc) So this really isn't a concern.

  bugmeno

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 87

 
OP  4/15/13 4:42:31 AM#49
Originally posted by waynejr2

 

 did you know that they are aiming this to be a smaller population game by design?  So if it seems to be a smaller game it's because that's what they are going for...............

 can someone point me to info about world size / map size?

you know the bigger the places to go the more spread out population gets, I just can not imagine yet where you will be running around doing stuff

So you have your friendly realm where you are building / Crafting ...? and then there are contested areas? or is the whole world contested and no safe places anywhere?

 I have no clue how the world architecture of UC is

Do you "queue up" for a battle or do you just walk there/ travel there

 

(if possible please don´t bash me anymore for questions, thanks)

  Daizedd

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 143

4/15/13 4:59:57 AM#50

- No one knows anything about world size yet.

-the only safe areas will be starting cities

-the is no instancing, no queues, no battlegrounds

-you will often (most often probably) be building/crafting in contested non-safe zones

  Jalanteriel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/19/04
Posts: 4

4/15/13 5:58:05 AM#51

I not too worried about the population issue, though it is a very valid point, especially with no PvE. What are you going to do when there no other players about/to level off?

As we don't know what will the system be like/leveliing style/method. Here's what I can guess/speculate based on playing DaoC and other MMOs over the past 15-18years.

I used to work odd hours so woud usually be playing DaoC at 3-5am. Not many people online then, but if you are looking for trouble, knock on a few doors at towers or keeps. It will light up. If theres anyone about, they wil go and investigate and youll have the odd scuffle. If not, you can most likely take down the door of the keep/tower over time. Perfect setup for the morning crew to raid later. I'm guessing you'll most likely get some XP/Skills doing that since you are contributing to RvR.

Craft - Gather resources, build up your home, set up your shop/market. If you aren't into crafting, why not help any felow crafter/guildie that's online? Or try to help open up TD for your realm? Or as a crafter, set up traps in TD :)

A few people mentioned changing sides, if MJ pulls the game off, I doubt anyone would want to do so, as realm pride would be a huge factor. I played on the EU servers, Prydwen, for a good 5-6 years as a Hib. I choose the realm mostly because the Ranger class appealed to me and I like supporting the underdog. We were almost always outnumbered, but that's the beauty of a 3vs3 system. The bigger realm is almost always countered by the other 2 realms. Then there's the community. We had a great community of player on Hib/Pry and I wouldn't have traded that to switch to any of the other realms.

  morfidon

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 245

4/15/13 6:15:17 AM#52
Don't worry about population issue. If this game will have even 1000 people online there will be action like there would be 4000 online with the game with PvE. Why? Because it's only PvP game so population won't split into hundreds of PvE zones.
  Ziftylrhavic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 223

4/15/13 8:01:29 AM#53

"Okay, so what does this mean to you? First, it means that every time you do something to help your realm it the game will note it. If you are fighting other players, crafting items, building structures in the frontiers, etc., your ruler will note the actions that you are taking to help your realm. Secondly, some of these actions may have an affect on your physical body and your stats. You may grow stronger, gain more attunement with certain magical forces, and become more proficient in one of your skills/abilities/runes/etc. or actually, the opposite at times. Thirdly, while there is not going to be a traditional leveling curve (Ding Gratz! Level 8 calling; Please deposit coins to add more health, more strength and new abilities!) but rather there will be a system that rewards you based on the combination of the actions you participated in (and more that we will talk about later) that we will substitute for the traditional system."

http://camelotunchained.com/en/top-ten-questions-no-realm-ranks-abilities-what/

 

If you can't find anybody, just attack an enemy structure. Either somebody comes to defend and you found your fight, either you capture it and you get xp.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3887

RIP City of Heroes!

4/15/13 1:28:48 PM#54
Originally posted by bugmeno
Originally posted by waynejr2

 

 did you know that they are aiming this to be a smaller population game by design?  So if it seems to be a smaller game it's because that's what they are going for...............

 can someone point me to info about world size / map size?

you know the bigger the places to go the more spread out population gets, I just can not imagine yet where you will be running around doing stuff

So you have your friendly realm where you are building / Crafting ...? and then there are contested areas? or is the whole world contested and no safe places anywhere?

 I have no clue how the world architecture of UC is

Do you "queue up" for a battle or do you just walk there/ travel there

 

(if possible please don´t bash me anymore for questions, thanks)

 Who mentioned world size?  Niche game.  Read the MJ posts.  If you don't do that, well, I guess you don't want to be informed.

HERE:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/04/08/mark-jacobs-talks-camelot-unchained-kickstarter/

Why a MMORPG?  There’s a lot of competition. The market is saturated.

I agree, this is possibly the most difficult time to develop a MMORPG.  It’s a challenge but I love MMOs.  I’ve been making online games for my entire career and I see a real opportunity here for a niche game.  And that’s what Camelot Unchained is.

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/15/13 7:28:01 PM#55

I think several people are extending the "no PvE leveling" to mean "you must fight other players to level." While I am sure that composes a large part of it, engaging in RvR does not always mean directly fighting others. You may be able to advance by doing things to help the war effort besides open combat.

We already know crafters will advance by, well, crafting, so that is one thing you can do in the absence of others. As for non-crafters, I would not be surprised if doing things like gathering supplies for the war, garrisoning forts, etc., helped level you.

Of course, like others have astutely pointed out, if the numbers were to drop so low that even merging the whole population on to one server did not allow for sufficient battles, the game would need to close and die, anyway. In short, population is not much more of a problem in Camelot Unchained compared to any other MMORPG.

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 796

4/16/13 1:29:36 PM#56

Originally posted by Taldier


Originally posted by Konfess

...But here is the thing I don’t think they have considered.  Players flee the losing side.  

I'm pretty sure they've considered it.  You arent exactly coming up with some genius new concept here.

In fact its one of many bonuses for a tri-realm system.  It takes a lot of imbalance for a single realm to just dominate the combined forces of the other two.  And if it ever actually does come to that I have no doubt they have plans in mind.

I feel like MJ has already hinted at things regarding the Depths, making sure to always describe them as "alive".  I see that as a potential balancing function if you can make the world itself fight back harder against a certain realm with traps and whatnot if that realm starts just completely overwhelming the other two.

Originally posted by Mkilbride


Originally posted by Konfess
Players flee the losing side. ...  Mark my words, the time will come when the community starts to ask for character transfer to the winning realm.  When they don’t get it, well we shall just have to wait and see.

They absolutely considered it. It's three-realms. With that, there is no one side always dominating.

 

Also, once you create a character on a realm, for that server, you are LOCKED TO THAT REALM.

 

Originally posted by Comaf


Originally posted by Konfess
Players flee the losing side.  

I get frustrated at times by how many players have not played Dark Age of Camelot.  But let's use that model and welcome new players to three realm RvR:

...Where one side tends to be very well led (raid leaders), one side tends to be small and cliquish, and there's an "average" population side.  In three realm you'll quickly learn that even with one overpowered  realm (even a smaller realm can have 1 good prime time raid leader and make your realm cry rivers)....you still have to look over your shoulder.

 

Getting sandwiched between two realms is an every day occurance in live Dark Age of Camelot.

I did play DAoC, but not long, I think it was three or four months.  At the time one side dominated.  The people I was playing with switched sides, because they had talk to others doing the same.  I stayed because I don't care about winning, and it is a family trait to root for the underdog.  But I soon realized that losing isn't fun at all, or playing with a bunch of whining losers.

My second and longest experience with a three realm system was the original PlanetSide.  Realize that PS was one of my all time favorite games.  But I layer TR, the balanced realm and least favorite amongst winning players.

Let me assure you that in a 3 realm system that the weak do not turn against the strong.  Like in nature the strong turn against the weak.  

In 2001, if your account was locked to a realm, you just bought the game again made a new account for the new realm and cancelled the old one.  In todays economy I suppose you just call up the customer service and demand a realm change or else you cancel your account.

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

4/16/13 1:33:09 PM#57
Originally posted by bugmeno

so no NPC leveling, I read that

 

what happens one day, when there are population decreases. Or when I play not in prime time.

looking desperately for a player to fight to level up

???

 

 

every recent MMO I played swtor gw2 tsw and tera you don't run into people for quite some time , this game needs 10 million subs and all of them on one server to make up for missing NPCs

 

or they make a tiny game world much smaller than in other mmos to fill it up with players

That's because in those games, the world is heavily instanced and focused on soloing. In this game people will seek eachother out, because its a real MMO.

  Delavega86

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 114

4/26/13 10:24:13 PM#58

without people... theres no reason to play anyway :P

 

for non-peak hours... i dunno.... roll a crafter alt to play during these hours :P

  grogstorm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 288

If it ain't broke, dont fix it!

4/26/13 11:22:22 PM#59
Easy solution, let in the gold farmers.  They will be in the RvR area mining and we kill em all.

Grog

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

4/26/13 11:57:58 PM#60

MMOs change over time my hobre. They can patch in a fix.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

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