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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » My Neverwinter beta 4 impressions (hint: Cash Shop Ruins Everything)

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  Bigbadwlf

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/21/12
Posts: 105

 
OP  4/14/13 6:03:46 PM#1

Edit: I apologize to people that feel that I didn't go into enough detail about what I actually brought in the cash shop, my post was already running very long, and I did feel that PWE practices were public knowledge by now.  Here are some links that go into more detail about the cash shop specifically.  Also I should point out that I never accused this game of being Pay2Win, just that prices were too expensive.

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?133571-Free-to-Play-failure

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?130931-Zen-Store-Item-List-Prices

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?132931-Zen-Store-Prices-need-to-be-reduced-by-alot!

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?127821-Crafting-Feedback

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?134641-Zen-Exchange-How-much-AD-is-1zen-worth

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to try to summarize my feelings of playing Neverwinter.  I was actually a huge Champions Online fan, I thought that game's design was pure genius and innovative.  The combat was great, the open ended class system was great, the hero customization was great.  Public quests were fun, crafting wasn't that good, but it was passable.  What I was hoping Neverwinter would turn out be a fantasy MMO with CO's level of character customization, all in a nice free to play package.  I was truly excited.

What I got was basically D&D Cash Shop Online, the sequel to Star Trek Cash Shop Online.  I don't blame Cryptic, I blame Perfect World, I feel that the developer really wanted to make a great game, but were force to gate the content through the Zen store and it's absurd prices.  I'm going to rate my impressions in 5 categories compared to other games that I have played.

Graphics: 5
easily the most ugliest modern MMO I have ever played.  I want you to keep in mind that when I played Beta 3 for free I didn't mind the graphics at all, but when I had to plop down $60 to try out beta 4, I really had to take notice of what I was paying for.  And this game is really ugly compared to pretty much every MMO released in the last 5 years.

Story Presentation: 6
Voice acting is nice, I actually like the fact that the voice acting continues even when you have left the NPC.  You basically get to do the quest while given context of what you're actually doing.  Unfortunately it turns out that maybe less than half the quests I get are actually voice acted, which is disappointing.  There was one quest line that I absolutely loved where this evil Elf was turning people into demons.  But overall I really had no idea what was going on, and this game didn't see interested in spending production dollars making me care compared to other MMOs.  Even Guild Wars 2.

Progression: 5
Dungeon Finder is a joke, I got grouped with two tanks and no healer.  Luckily I had a Cleric companion so my GF didn't die.  Exp for the dungeon is a joke, I could have soloed 3 regular quests and have gotten better exp.  Also the green dungeon drops were a joke, green armor upgrades drop like rain, and you can buy blue armor from the NPCs in town.  If the dungeons are worthless that automatically makes the Foundry worthless.  Questing is alright, the exp is great, but the missions are pretty linear, no alternative leveling zones or anything to make questing interesting. Exp from crafting is worthless.  Everything from crafting is worthless.  PvP was pretty fun, but once again the exp is poor.

Combat:8
Easily the best feature in this game, combat was exciting, the classes seem pretty balance, except for the Great Weapon Fighter, but I haven't tried him.  I like the feature where you can choose which abilities you want while leveling, even though it ultimately doesn't matter much.  What hurts the combat is the severe lack of buttons.  I thought GW2 was smoking something when they restricted players to 10-15 abilities, but you only get 7 Max in Neverwinter?  I took a gamble and was hoping that the companions would make up for the lack of abilities and play a bigger role in the combat.  Especially if PW was charging $10-$30 for these creatures, but they weren't worth the price tag.


Exploration: 4
Is there anything fun to do in this game besides kill stuff? Nope.  Crafting is garbage, you can just look at any other post on the official forums to see what I mean. I guess you can work on the Foundry, but that strongly depends on if the foundry missions are actually worth doing in this game, and if it doesn't drop blue quality or higher armor, then the answer is no.

My User average: 5.6

Let's see the score after I factor in that I had already spent $80 on this game because of insane Z-Store prices.
Total score: 0

let's see the score if this game was actually a truly free to play game without the Z-Store
Total Score: 7.5

Conclusion:  If you can figure out a way to play this game without having to ever spend a single cent in the Z-Store, then this game is pretty decent.  However I was not one of those people.  I do feel that I did not get my money's worth from this game, the Z-store prices are too high.  I feel I have been robbed and I will not play this game ever again, nor will I play any other game PW / Cryptic makes.

  Logansan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/04
Posts: 45

4/14/13 6:13:16 PM#2
Sounds like a good honest review. I didn't get into Beta so I can agree or disagree with anything, but you have (sadly) confirmed what I expected the game I would end up like. I'll likely still end up trying it as a few of my friends are looking forward to it, but it's starting to looks like it may be one of those short one month visits to a MMORPG that seems to the trend these day.
  Ryowulf

Elite Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 664

4/14/13 6:32:04 PM#3
Originally posted by Bigbadwlf
Graphics: 5
easily the most ugliest modern MMO I have ever played.  I want you to keep in mind that when I played Beta 3 for free I didn't mind the graphics at all, but when I had to plop down $60 to try out beta 4, I really had to take notice of what I was paying for.  And this game is really ugly compared to pretty much every MMO released in the last 5 years.                                                             
They are low entry graphics. They are that way to let lower end computers and laptops be able to play the game.  They aren't the best, but I can live with them.
Story Presentation: 6
Voice acting is nice, I actually like the fact that the voice acting continues even when you have left the NPC.  You basically get to do the quest while given context of what you're actually doing.  Unfortunately it turns out that maybe less than half the quests I get are actually voice acted, which is disappointing.  There was one quest line that I absolutely loved where this evil Elf was turning people into demons.  But overall I really had no idea what was going on, and this game didn't see interested in spending production dollars making me care compared to other MMOs.  Even Guild Wars 2.
VO costs money.  I like hearing npcs talk, but I often just click out of them after the first time so its fine.
Progression: 5
Dungeon Finder is a joke, I got grouped with two tanks and no healer.  Luckily I had a Cleric companion so my GF didn't die.  Exp for the dungeon is a joke, I could have soloed 3 regular quests and have gotten better exp.  Also the green dungeon drops were a joke, green armor upgrades drop like rain, and you can buy blue armor from the NPCs in town.  If the dungeons are worthless that automatically makes the Foundry worthless.  Questing is alright, the exp is great, but the missions are pretty linear, no alternative leveling zones or anything to make questing interesting. Exp from crafting is worthless.  Everything from crafting is worthless.  PvP was pretty fun, but once again the exp is poor.
It seems to me one of the points of companions is to make up for a lack of certain classes.  You know how in many games the dpsers stand around waiting while the healers and tanks fly in.  Xp comes fast enough as it is. How about just enjoying the quests for the story instead of how much loot or xp you get?  I don't get it, you didn't hit max level over the weekend so you are upset about that??
Combat:8
Easily the best feature in this game, combat was exciting, the classes seem pretty balance, except for the Great Weapon Fighter, but I haven't tried him.  I like the feature where you can choose which abilities you want while leveling, even though it ultimately doesn't matter much.  What hurts the combat is the severe lack of buttons.  I thought GW2 was smoking something when they restricted players to 10-15 abilities, but you only get 7 Max in Neverwinter?  I took a gamble and was hoping that the companions would make up for the lack of abilities and play a bigger role in the combat.  Especially if PW was charging $10-$30 for these creatures, but they weren't worth the price tag.
Different taste for different folks, but I enjoy not having a ton of buttons.  I don't know any new AAA title coming out with tons of buttons, so I don't know what to tell you.
Exploration: 4
Is there anything fun to do in this game besides kill stuff? Nope.  Crafting is garbage, you can just look at any other post on the official forums to see what I mean. I guess you can work on the Foundry, but that strongly depends on if the foundry missions are actually worth doing in this game, and if it doesn't drop blue quality or higher armor, then the answer is no.
There are lots of fun things to do in the game. It just seems like you are stuck on loot. Which is fine. Torchlight 2 and Path of Exile drop lots of loot.
I do agree store prices seem a little high, but I didn't see anything in your post that told me I had to use the store.
Lets keep in mind, that you only had to pay 60+ if you wanted the stuff,  or wanted to play this weekend or early start etc.  I've been in two betas and since the game is going open beta on the 30 there was no pressing need to get in this beta.  A person doesn't need to buy the game to play so you just saved 60+.  You get companions in game, so you don't actually need to buy any.  Not only that you can earn gems or whatever they are called in game so while it will take a while you can buy store stuff and never spend a dime.  

 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2650

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

4/14/13 6:36:49 PM#4

Its fine to post negatives about the game but... where exactly do you give any proof cash shop ruins everything? I'm not seeing how it negatively effects the game in a way its not playable. Just got out of it you spent a lot of stuff, which you never pointed out waht it is, you could of easily wasted money on cosmetics and all which is WHAT THEY WANT. They want people to support the game through good that don't provide advantages and as such of course they will cost money, they need to support the server, and they need to make up for people not paying a cent.  The heavy focus on the cash shop with 0 to really push at it is a MASSIVE flaw with your post and how you present it.

 

Take it away and, I'm fine with what you said. Not 100% agreeing with all your points but its not the worst review. Just that massive bias marker of cash shop with 0 proof to back it really destroys your entire review.

  Asheram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1823

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

4/14/13 6:36:51 PM#5

So you played beta 3 and said graphics were fine for free but didnt cut it for paid but went and paid for beta 4 rather than waiting for the 30th when its free again?

And as far as zen you can buy zen from other players with ingame gold(at least its that way in pwe's games, dont know if they incorporated it into the cryptic games they took over though) granted it takes alot of grinding to get said gold.

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 762

4/14/13 6:45:27 PM#6
Originally posted by Asheram

So you played beta 3 and said graphics were fine for free but didnt cut it for paid but went and paid for beta 4 rather than waiting for the 30th when its free again?

And as far as zen you can buy zen from other players with ingame gold(at least its that way in pwe's games, dont know if they incorporated it into the cryptic games they took over though) granted it takes alot of grinding to get said gold.

I thought it was AD and Zen transactions not gold and Zen.  Gold is about totally and utterly worthless it seems like, no use whatsoever practically beyond buying you start mounts (lvl 20, 40 and 60 ones) even though you have to buy training in AD, cross proffession gatering tool, and pots (even though one should never need to buy em since they drop like crazy).

I agree that the cash shop is a bit extreme.  Having to pay AD stuff left n right is not the way to do buisness.  They should have taken notes from DDO's cash shop.  Had high hopes for Neverwitner, but overall feel that it'll just be another meh typtical F2P MMO.

  vmoped

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1717

4/14/13 6:48:04 PM#7
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Asheram

So you played beta 3 and said graphics were fine for free but didnt cut it for paid but went and paid for beta 4 rather than waiting for the 30th when its free again?

And as far as zen you can buy zen from other players with ingame gold(at least its that way in pwe's games, dont know if they incorporated it into the cryptic games they took over though) granted it takes alot of grinding to get said gold.

I thought it was AD and Zen transactions not gold and Zen.  Gold is about totally and utterly worthless it seems like, no use whatsoever practically beyond buying you start mounts (lvl 20, 40 and 60 ones) even though you have to buy training in AD, cross proffession gatering tool, and pots (even though one should never need to buy em since they drop like crazy).

 You also need gold to buy injury removal kits and crafting supplies.  As you get higher up, the injury kits and crafting supplies become real drains on your gold wallet.

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  Onigod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 673

4/14/13 6:53:54 PM#8

Cash shop,  Perfect World Entertainment.

 

Enough said.. Its from PWE so you can buy power with real money that is almost impossible to get without spending anything.

  Asheram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1823

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

4/14/13 7:23:54 PM#9
Originally posted by furbans
Originally posted by Asheram

So you played beta 3 and said graphics were fine for free but didnt cut it for paid but went and paid for beta 4 rather than waiting for the 30th when its free again?

And as far as zen you can buy zen from other players with ingame gold(at least its that way in pwe's games, dont know if they incorporated it into the cryptic games they took over though) granted it takes alot of grinding to get said gold.

I thought it was AD and Zen transactions not gold and Zen.  Gold is about totally and utterly worthless it seems like, no use whatsoever practically beyond buying you start mounts (lvl 20, 40 and 60 ones) even though you have to buy training in AD, cross proffession gatering tool, and pots (even though one should never need to buy em since they drop like crazy).

I agree that the cash shop is a bit extreme.  Having to pay AD stuff left n right is not the way to do buisness.  They should have taken notes from DDO's cash shop.  Had high hopes for Neverwitner, but overall feel that it'll just be another meh typtical F2P MMO.

Ahh well,lol they must have changed it alot since I last played a pwe game as I dont even know what AD is and I am pretty sure it was gold when I last played but yea been awhile sorry.

  kjempff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 640

Make worlds not stories

4/14/13 7:49:37 PM#10

I would not rate like you did, not the numbers and not what to rate; The game was interesting in many ways when I tried beta3, atleast not as bad as alot of other mmorpgs.

I had hoped there was some info to back up the title of this post. Whether I would play it or rather invest any time in it, depends purely on the price of free, and the degree of pay2win.

  Tsumoro

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 240

4/14/13 7:56:17 PM#11

Sorry, but I think I am a little late to the party on this one. I had fully intended to come and enjoy Neverwinter but all this talk withing the thread about the pay2win stuff etc has made me somewhat wary. 

Would anyone who has played please give me an example of the pay2win situation going on? Like, what exactly do you 'have' to pay for in order to succeed?

 

Thank you for your time, I am a big DnD fan and this sounds potentially a deal breaker for me >.<

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/14/13 7:56:50 PM#12
i'm curious for graphics.. now I know they aren't the best but honestly look a lot better than say Swtor or Rift imho.. i'm curious if people upped the sliders all the way.. going to max on the bar doesn't actually max out the graphics.. you can move most the sliders under advanced up to 200-300%.. also if you click troubleshooting at the bottom of the graphics tab you can enable directx 11 support(although havent' noticed much difference doing that)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GenreNinja

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/07
Posts: 138

Live a Life Less Ordinary, Even if it isn''t your own! Support the RPG Community!

4/14/13 8:03:40 PM#13

If the Z-Store weighs so heavily on your score of the game. I'd like to hear What you bought, why you needed to buy it, and why it was impractical to go without buying it.

---

Live a life less ordinary.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/14/13 8:06:37 PM#14
Originally posted by GenreNinja

If the Z-Store weighs so heavily on your score of the game. I'd like to hear What you bought, why you needed to buy it, and why it was impractical to go without buying it.


Taken from official forums.. only one I see people having issues with are the life scrolls


*ITEMS*
Packs:
-Adventurer's Helper Pack z1,500
Potions:
-Greater Stone of Health z1,500
-Scroll of Mass life X5 z500
-Scroll of life X5 z300
-Stone of Health z500
Keys:
-Enchanted Key z125
-Enchanted Keys X10 z1,125
Wards:
-Coalescant Ward z1,000
-Preservation wards X10 z100

*BAGS*
-Greater bag of holding z1000
-Bag of holding z600
-Companion active slot z350
-Comapanion Idle slots X4 z100

*Fashion*
Outfits:
-Noble Finery z1,200
-Courtesan's wear z1,500
-Wedding attire z3,000
Dye Packs:
-Neverwinter Royal Dye packs X4 z350
-Dye removers X4 z300
-Ebon Darkness Dye Packs X4 z350
-Winterwolf Dye Packs X4 z600
Dye Bottles:
-Black Dye bottles X4 z500
-blue Dye bottles X4 z200
-Green Dye bottles X4 z300
-Pink Dye bottles X4 z500
-Purple Dye bottles X4 z200
-Red Dye bottles X4 z200

*Companions*
Special:
-Galeb Duhr z3,000
-Honey Badger z3,500
-Ioun Stone of Allure z2,000
Animals:
-Hawk z1,500
-Wolf z1,500
Hirelings:
-Acolyte of Kelemvor z2,000
Wards:
-Coalecent Ward z1,000
-Preservation Wards X10 z100

*Mounts*
Special:
-Heavy Worg z4,000
-Heavy Howler z4,000
-Medium Worg z3,000
Horses:
-Amnian Horse z500
-Calimshain Horse z500
-Tethyr Horse z500

*Professions*
-Professions Assest Pack z700
-Professions Booster Pack z300

*Services*
-Change Appearence Token z200
-Character Slots X2 z500
-Companion Active Slots z350
-Companion Idle Slots X4 z100
-Manycoins Bank Slots X8 z600
-Rename Token z400
-Retrain Token z500

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Tsumoro

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/30/12
Posts: 240

4/14/13 8:11:14 PM#15
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by GenreNinja

If the Z-Store weighs so heavily on your score of the game. I'd like to hear What you bought, why you needed to buy it, and why it was impractical to go without buying it.


Taken from official forums.. only one I see people having issues with are the life scrolls


*ITEMS*
Packs:
-Adventurer's Helper Pack z1,500
Potions:
-Greater Stone of Health z1,500
-Scroll of Mass life X5 z500
-Scroll of life X5 z300
-Stone of Health z500
Keys:
-Enchanted Key z125
-Enchanted Keys X10 z1,125
Wards:
-Coalescant Ward z1,000
-Preservation wards X10 z100

*BAGS*
-Greater bag of holding z1000
-Bag of holding z600
-Companion active slot z350
-Comapanion Idle slots X4 z100

*Fashion*
Outfits:
-Noble Finery z1,200
-Courtesan's wear z1,500
-Wedding attire z3,000
Dye Packs:
-Neverwinter Royal Dye packs X4 z350
-Dye removers X4 z300
-Ebon Darkness Dye Packs X4 z350
-Winterwolf Dye Packs X4 z600
Dye Bottles:
-Black Dye bottles X4 z500
-blue Dye bottles X4 z200
-Green Dye bottles X4 z300
-Pink Dye bottles X4 z500
-Purple Dye bottles X4 z200
-Red Dye bottles X4 z200

*Companions*
Special:
-Galeb Duhr z3,000
-Honey Badger z3,500
-Ioun Stone of Allure z2,000
Animals:
-Hawk z1,500
-Wolf z1,500
Hirelings:
-Acolyte of Kelemvor z2,000
Wards:
-Coalecent Ward z1,000
-Preservation Wards X10 z100

*Mounts*
Special:
-Heavy Worg z4,000
-Heavy Howler z4,000
-Medium Worg z3,000
Horses:
-Amnian Horse z500
-Calimshain Horse z500
-Tethyr Horse z500

*Professions*
-Professions Assest Pack z700
-Professions Booster Pack z300

*Services*
-Change Appearence Token z200
-Character Slots X2 z500
-Companion Active Slots z350
-Companion Idle Slots X4 z100
-Manycoins Bank Slots X8 z600
-Rename Token z400
-Retrain Token z500

Well that answers my question then as well hehe. 

 

I consider those 'quality of life' services. Things not needed, but a nice little cosmetic / time saving plus. I was getting concerned by the way people are speaking about the store that it was gutting the game of content which you had to buy to proceed. Like being able to run, or ride or limiting your abilities etc. 

So essentially you could play this game and not purchase a thing. I am keen really on the foundry aspect to this game more than anything, but I would still like to be able to play without being road blocked or forced into purchases. I am more than happy on cosmetic stuff, I do tend to buy those as long as they are good. 

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1147

4/14/13 8:13:56 PM#16
Originally posted by Asheram

So you played beta 3 and said graphics were fine for free but didnt cut it for paid but went and paid for beta 4 rather than waiting for the 30th when its free again?

And as far as zen you can buy zen from other players with ingame gold(at least its that way in pwe's games, dont know if they incorporated it into the cryptic games they took over though) granted it takes alot of grinding to get said gold.

Just this point right here makes me really wonder about the logic applied to everything.

I like the graphical style.  It really captures the WotC Forgotten Realms artwork well.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

4/14/13 8:19:28 PM#17
Originally posted by Tsumoro
 

Well that answers my question then as well hehe. 

 

I consider those 'quality of life' services. Things not needed, but a nice little cosmetic / time saving plus. I was getting concerned by the way people are speaking about the store that it was gutting the game of content which you had to buy to proceed. Like being able to run, or ride or limiting your abilities etc. 

So essentially you could play this game and not purchase a thing. I am keen really on the foundry aspect to this game more than anything, but I would still like to be able to play without being road blocked or forced into purchases. I am more than happy on cosmetic stuff, I do tend to buy those as long as they are good. 

yes there is nothing in this game you "need" to pay out money for to enjoy the game as of right now.... we will see if it remains that way

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  GenreNinja

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/07
Posts: 138

Live a Life Less Ordinary, Even if it isn''t your own! Support the RPG Community!

4/14/13 8:23:25 PM#18
they brought up just want I was starting to get at. The shop is mostly Quality of Life, nothing very inpactful. As long as it remains that way, I think we'll be ok.

---

Live a life less ordinary.

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

4/14/13 8:28:26 PM#19
Originally posted by Purutzil

Its fine to post negatives about the game but... where exactly do you give any proof cash shop ruins everything?

 It is basically an misguided title from the OP.

His review actually seems to have very little mention of cash shop at all, let alone evidence.

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 986

4/14/13 8:44:56 PM#20

I expected the prices to be in line with STO... Which absolutely means they are batcrap high and they need to be ignored (and will be) by the bulk of players. PW just doesn't have the sense to lower this stuff... Would you rather sell 1000 fluff item at 20 dollars each or 10000 fluff items at 5 dollars a pop? 

The rest of the game I can deal with so far. It isn't "10" material, but it is fun enough.

Still haven't got to play with the foundry (aka make or break). See how that is in two weeks. 

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