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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Suggestion: How to get from 7k to 15k backers within a few days and ensure Kickstarter success

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37 posts found
  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/13/13 11:10:08 PM#1

Fact 1: The #1 most wanted reward is alpha access. Proof: http://www.kickstat.net/kscamelot/bargraftiertotalindkomstcamelot.png

Fact 2: The average money spent per backer is $160. It is 2 and 3 times the average of other similar projects. Some say that CU backers are very generous but IMO this is only partially true. The truth is that people want to play the game as soon as possible. There is a huge difference between playing the game in 2014 and playing it in 2015. Many who can't afford the $110 simply end up not pledging at all (and less backers at cheaper tiers means higher average money spent per backer).

Fact 3: There are currently 15.850 alpha spots which means they can handle that amount of people. If the Kickstarter succeeds there will be about 6k alpha testers in the end. This means about 10k empty alpha spots which to me seems wasteful. CSE could fill up these spots and make a bunch of money in the process (and ensure that the kickstarter is successful). 

 

How?

Solution: Let the first 15k backers (everyone who gave $25 or more) into the alpha.

Result: Even if the average (calculated after the change) drops from $160 to $80 they would make $640k within a few days. At $1.75 mil and with 2 weeks to go success would be guaranteed. In the end they would end up at 16k-17k alpha testers which is barely higher than the current limit. Among these 16-17k are abour 3-4k who aren't too interested in the alpha (those who already pledged but for beta tiers) which means the alpha won't be "overpopulated" (if that's even possible). Also, more backers means more people who will upgrade/buy extra FPs in the last few days.

Another solution would be to open up new limited alpha tiers at $30 and $50.

Thoughts?

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Lysi

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/13
Posts: 10

4/13/13 11:14:38 PM#2

You really think most people want to be in Alpha? :) 

Mark Jacobs has already commented that they want to leave spots open to move people on the Backer's forums into testing.   So if someone wants to be in Alpha but commits to a tier that doesn't offer it, they should just be active in the forums and express interest in Alpha testing.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

4/13/13 11:15:22 PM#3
Only people seriously committed should be allowed into alpha, not any WoW shmoe, look what happened to everyone MMo that got overrun by people joining the beta. AoC went from an interesting game to a WoW clone.
  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

4/13/13 11:17:33 PM#4
Originally posted by boxsnd

Fact 1: The #1 most wanted reward is alpha access. Proof: http://www.kickstat.net/kscamelot/bargraftiertotalindkomstcamelot.png

Fact 2: The average money spent per backer is $160. It is 2 and 3 times the average of other similar projects. Some say that CU backers are very generous but IMO this is only partially true. The truth is that people want to play the game as soon as possible. There is a huge difference between playing the game in 2014 and playing it in 2015. Many who can't afford the $110 simply end up not pledging at all (and less backers at cheaper tiers means higher average money spent per backer).

Fact 3: There are currently 15.850 alpha spots which means they can handle that amount of people. If the Kickstarter succeeds there will be about 6k alpha testers in the end. This means about 10k empty alpha spots which to me seems wasteful. CSE could fill up these spots and make a bunch of money in the process (and ensure that the kickstarter is successful). 

 

How?

Solution: Let the first 15k backers (everyone who gave $25 or more) into the alpha.

Result: Even if the average (calculated after the change) drops from $160 to $80 they would make $640k within a few days. At $1.75 mil and with 2 weeks to go success would be guaranteed. In the end they would end up at 16k-17k alpha testers which is barely higher than the current limit. Among these 16-17k are abour 3-4k who aren't too interested in the alpha (those who already pledged but for beta tiers) which means the alpha won't be "overpopulated" (if that's even possible). Also, more backers means more people who will upgrade/buy extra FPs in the last few days.

Another solution would be to open up new limited alpha tiers at $30 and $50.

Thoughts?

...yes my thoughts are GIVE IT A BREAK!.......it will fail or make it, but im tired of seeing all these post HOW WE CAN SAVE CU.   Why cant all you see that this is failing due to poor planning and no visual demo of the gameplay or proof of concept.  People want to see something, a demo or something if they are going to shell out their money!

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/13/13 11:17:51 PM#5
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Only people seriously committed should be allowed into alpha, not any WoW shmoe, look what happened to everyone MMo that got overrun by people joining the beta. AoC went from an interesting game to a WoW clone.

Someone who gives $50 for a game that will come out 2.5 years later isn't seriously committed? 

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Lysi

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/13
Posts: 10

4/13/13 11:20:56 PM#6
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Only people seriously committed should be allowed into alpha, not any WoW shmoe, look what happened to everyone MMo that got overrun by people joining the beta. AoC went from an interesting game to a WoW clone.

Someone who gives $50 for a game that will come out 2.5 years later isn't seriously committed? 

It depends, there are many people who are giving money just to see if it'll succeed, there are others who have stated they won't have time for testing and then there are people who want to test as early as possible.  I think the approach they are taking is fine.

  Raagnarz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 261

4/13/13 11:21:10 PM#7

Honestly while it might increase the number of backers by a small margin, I doubt it would make a lot of difference. Mark specifically said and rightfully so he wanted alpha to be limited. Now they have a lot more alpha spots than I expected honestly and it would be a shame to waste them. But I would never want to see them lower the alpha tiers to $30 and $50 pledges.

 

The problem with lowering them is then higher tiers pledges already might just go ahead and cancel their higher pledges and go with something lower. Now you can say a lot of people have already gone with beta tiers so they aren't interested in alpha, but I think it would be too alluring for most to get alpha access at $30. I understand some people are on a budget, but I've hardly seen a KS with such a low tier giving beta access let alone alpha. Not to mention you need people seriously interested and vested in IT/alpha testing. If they lowered it to $30 or $50 anyone who effectively buys the game would get access. Thats not a good thing. If toward the end the alpha tiers haven't filled I would suggest maybe adding it to the store for foundation points. That way maybe a 30-50 could add just a little extra and use their FP's on the leftover alpha access if available.

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/13/13 11:25:22 PM#8
Originally posted by Raagnarz

Honestly while it might increase the number of backers by a small margin, I doubt it would make a lot of difference. Mark specifically said and rightfully so he wanted alpha to be limited. Now they have a lot more alpha spots than I expected honestly and it would be a shame to waste them. But I would never want to see them lower the alpha tiers to $30 and $50 pledges.

 

The problem with lowering them is then higher tiers pledges already might just go ahead and cancel their higher pledges and go with something lower. Now you can say a lot of people have already gone with beta tiers so they aren't interested in alpha, but I think it would be too alluring for most to get alpha access at $30. I understand some people are on a budget, but I've hardly seen a KS with such a low tier giving beta access let alone alpha. If toward the end the alpha tiers haven't filled I would suggest maybe adding it to the store for foundation points. That way maybe a 30-50 could add just a little extra and use their FP's on the leftover alpha access if available.

First off tiers higher than $110 won't downgrade because they could already downgrade to $110 if it was about money. 

IMO extremely few from the $110 tier will downgrade if the game is in danger of not reaching $2mil.

Why don't you want $30-50 alpha testers btw? 

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5566

4/13/13 11:30:10 PM#9
I think the #1 most wanted thing is a lifetime subscription based on those stats.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/13/13 11:34:34 PM#10
Originally posted by colddog04
I think the #1 most wanted thing is a lifetime subscription based on those stats.

Of course but you can't lower the price on lifetime sub. Lowering the price on alpha access has many positive and very little to no negative effects.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Raagnarz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 261

4/13/13 11:34:44 PM#11
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Raagnarz

Honestly while it might increase the number of backers by a small margin, I doubt it would make a lot of difference. Mark specifically said and rightfully so he wanted alpha to be limited. Now they have a lot more alpha spots than I expected honestly and it would be a shame to waste them. But I would never want to see them lower the alpha tiers to $30 and $50 pledges.

 

The problem with lowering them is then higher tiers pledges already might just go ahead and cancel their higher pledges and go with something lower. Now you can say a lot of people have already gone with beta tiers so they aren't interested in alpha, but I think it would be too alluring for most to get alpha access at $30. I understand some people are on a budget, but I've hardly seen a KS with such a low tier giving beta access let alone alpha. If toward the end the alpha tiers haven't filled I would suggest maybe adding it to the store for foundation points. That way maybe a 30-50 could add just a little extra and use their FP's on the leftover alpha access if available.

First off tiers higher than $110 won't downgrade because they could already downgrade to $110 if it was about money. 

IMO extremely few from the $110 tier will downgrade if the game is in danger of not reaching $2mil.

Why don't you want $30-50 alpha testers btw? 

Because as I edited in my post above before you quoted lol, I think you need serious people alpha testing or IT testing. You can't just throw alpha testing at any shlub tossing down less than a box cost for a game just because they might want to play it early.

 

I've seen you post a ton here prior to KS launch supporting the game and frothing at the mouth for it. Yet recently I saw you post that you wouldn't be giving them money until they added alpha acces to $30 and $50 tiers. Did you honestly expect them to throw alpha access to such a low tier anyone could get into it? I think this suggestion is more about what it will take to get you to pledge than the overall impact. Having it at that low a tier would be detrimental to their testing procedures no doubt. You need a group of people who are determined and understand what state the game is in. By adding a $30 or $50 tier alpha access anyone who pays less than a box price for the game would be in alpha. By having it such a small amount there is a greater than average chance they are just someone preordering cheaper and not so vested in the game's well being. More than like they would not be willing to put up with what an alpha is really like. I could see a lot of passer by's picking it up and being bad for the overall testing of the game.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5566

4/13/13 11:36:23 PM#12
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by colddog04
I think the #1 most wanted thing is a lifetime subscription based on those stats.

Of course but you can't lower the price on lifetime sub. Lowering the price on alpha access has many positive and very little to no negative effects.

I just don't think alpha is as attractive to people as you make it sound. But I do agree that they should do something to make their lower tiers more enticing. They should have done that after they saw the results of day 1.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

4/13/13 11:37:10 PM#13
Originally posted by boxsnd

Fact 1: The #1 most wanted reward is alpha access. Proof: http://www.kickstat.net/kscamelot/bargraftiertotalindkomstcamelot.png

Fact 2: The average money spent per backer is $160. It is 2 and 3 times the average of other similar projects. Some say that CU backers are very generous but IMO this is only partially true. The truth is that people want to play the game as soon as possible. There is a huge difference between playing the game in 2014 and playing it in 2015. Many who can't afford the $110 simply end up not pledging at all (and less backers at cheaper tiers means higher average money spent per backer).

Fact 3: There are currently 15.850 alpha spots which means they can handle that amount of people. If the Kickstarter succeeds there will be about 6k alpha testers in the end. This means about 10k empty alpha spots which to me seems wasteful. CSE could fill up these spots and make a bunch of money in the process (and ensure that the kickstarter is successful). 

 

How?

Solution: Let the first 15k backers (everyone who gave $25 or more) into the alpha.

Result: Even if the average (calculated after the change) drops from $160 to $80 they would make $640k within a few days. At $1.75 mil and with 2 weeks to go success would be guaranteed. In the end they would end up at 16k-17k alpha testers which is barely higher than the current limit. Among these 16-17k are abour 3-4k who aren't too interested in the alpha (those who already pledged but for beta tiers) which means the alpha won't be "overpopulated" (if that's even possible). Also, more backers means more people who will upgrade/buy extra FPs in the last few days.

Another solution would be to open up new limited alpha tiers at $30 and $50.

Thoughts?

Funny how two people can see the same situation and take different understandings away.

#1. I could agree with this though I haven't done the numbers.

#2. The average pledge is so high because of the level of hysteria instilled in a very small number of people.

#3. The audience that would fall over themselves for an alpha spot are already pledged for the most part.

This KS already has far too many tiers, adding more will not help.

The thing that would save them is if they could somehow present the game in a light where it appeals to people that never played DAoC/WAR, cos those DAOC/WAR players have already decided if they're going to pledge. Right now the game is effectively ignoring anyone that wasn't a dedicated DAOC/WAR player. That whole update on The Depths meant exactly zero to me, because I didn't play DAoC after the frist two months, so never saw the dungeon he made constant references to. He preaches to the converted, not a good strategy for a Missionary.

This game has a miniscule number of backers, but they are pretty much all hysterical for the game to get made. The only realistic hope is for the backers that already pledged in days 1-3 to double down. When you take the hardcore pledger from days 1 and 2 out of the picture you see that this KS was never really viable without them. Approximately $640K in two days has skewed the metrics very badly. If they want this to fund they're going to have to replicate the ~$600K again during the tail of this KS. In effect about $1.5M of this KS is going to have to come from the 3-4k dedicated believers.

You can forget stretch goals, that's talking about putting in a pool and granny flat when you may not even get to build the house.

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

4/13/13 11:38:03 PM#14

I disagree with OP ...... It was only a couple hours ago that the last spots for the $180/$1000 tiers were sold out,

if you are implying double the amount of donors would be had with greater numbers of the access tiers they would have been sold out long ago......

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

4/13/13 11:44:15 PM#15
Originally posted by boxsnd

Fact 1: The #1 most wanted reward is alpha access. Proof: http://www.kickstat.net/kscamelot/bargraftiertotalindkomstcamelot.png

$110 is the Digital Collectors Edition.  Its the first tier that really gives you a bunch of extra stuff on top of the game.  Its not much more than the tier right before it but has quite a bit more stuff.

$250 is the first tier with a lifetime subscription.

 

I think your evaluation and "proof" are pretty simplistic when you intentionally avoid pointing out those factors.

 

And your numbers make a lot of assumptions.  Just because the slots are there doesnt mean they can automatically handle that many people.  They can handle that many people if they actually have the money from those pledges.

The difference between 15000 players at $110, $250 and higher versus 15000 players at $25 is enough money to hire a lot of support staff for those players.

 

As for alpha, I think most people who want it dont even know what it is.  This is actually going to be an alpha.  Not what companies call alpha now just to hype you up.  Stuff is going to break.  Its not just going to be running around playing the game to figure out what character you want to play at launch.  There is over a year between alpha and launch.  A lot of changes can and probably will happen in that time.

 

Honestly if people cant pledge $110 they probably dont have the time to really commit to the testing process.

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/13/13 11:44:36 PM#16
Originally posted by Raagnarz
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Raagnarz

Honestly while it might increase the number of backers by a small margin, I doubt it would make a lot of difference. Mark specifically said and rightfully so he wanted alpha to be limited. Now they have a lot more alpha spots than I expected honestly and it would be a shame to waste them. But I would never want to see them lower the alpha tiers to $30 and $50 pledges.

 

The problem with lowering them is then higher tiers pledges already might just go ahead and cancel their higher pledges and go with something lower. Now you can say a lot of people have already gone with beta tiers so they aren't interested in alpha, but I think it would be too alluring for most to get alpha access at $30. I understand some people are on a budget, but I've hardly seen a KS with such a low tier giving beta access let alone alpha. If toward the end the alpha tiers haven't filled I would suggest maybe adding it to the store for foundation points. That way maybe a 30-50 could add just a little extra and use their FP's on the leftover alpha access if available.

First off tiers higher than $110 won't downgrade because they could already downgrade to $110 if it was about money. 

IMO extremely few from the $110 tier will downgrade if the game is in danger of not reaching $2mil.

Why don't you want $30-50 alpha testers btw? 

Because as I edited in my post above before you quoted lol, I think you need serious people alpha testing or IT testing. You can't just throw alpha testing at any shlub tossing down less than a box cost for a game just because they might want to play it early.

 

I've seen you post a ton here prior to KS launch supporting the game and frothing at the mouth for it. Yet recently I saw you post that you wouldn't be giving them money until they added alhpa acces to $30 and $50 tiers. Did you honestly expect them to throw alpha access to such a low tier anyone could get into it? I think this suggestion is more about what it will take to get you to pledge than the overall impact. Having it at that low a tier would be detrimental to their testing procedures no doubt. You need a group of people who are determined and understand what state the game is in. By adding a $30 or $50 tier alpha access anyone who pays less than a box price for the game would be in alpha. By having it such a small amount there is a greater than average chance they are just someone preordering cheaper and not so vested in the game's well being. More than like they would not be willing to put up with what an alpha is really like. I could see a lot of passer by's picking it up and being bad for the overall testing of the game.

Wait a second. The guy who gives $30-50 to game that is pretty much still in concept stage and 2.5 years away from release is a passer-by and a shlob? I think that guy deserves a little more respect.

 

And it's not about me. Look at the statistics. There are many like me who can afford $30-50 and choose not to give anything.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  tenfoldedmight

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 55

4/13/13 11:55:17 PM#17

I'll quote myself:

"I think the prices/tiers/alpha access are very fair, better then most(if not all) games i've been interested in. And i'm sure he will add people who are active/helpfull and want to TEST, not play, on the forums to alpha. As he said about the IT tier aswell.

So pledge whatever you can now and get a good deal on the game with bonuses, and then be on their forums and be active/constructive/willing to test the game and i'm sure you will get a chance to come in to alpha testing.

If that fails atleast you got a good deal on the game and are not far away from beta at that stage anyway."

  Raagnarz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 261

4/14/13 12:01:34 AM#18
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Raagnarz
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by Raagnarz

Honestly while it might increase the number of backers by a small margin, I doubt it would make a lot of difference. Mark specifically said and rightfully so he wanted alpha to be limited. Now they have a lot more alpha spots than I expected honestly and it would be a shame to waste them. But I would never want to see them lower the alpha tiers to $30 and $50 pledges.

 

The problem with lowering them is then higher tiers pledges already might just go ahead and cancel their higher pledges and go with something lower. Now you can say a lot of people have already gone with beta tiers so they aren't interested in alpha, but I think it would be too alluring for most to get alpha access at $30. I understand some people are on a budget, but I've hardly seen a KS with such a low tier giving beta access let alone alpha. If toward the end the alpha tiers haven't filled I would suggest maybe adding it to the store for foundation points. That way maybe a 30-50 could add just a little extra and use their FP's on the leftover alpha access if available.

First off tiers higher than $110 won't downgrade because they could already downgrade to $110 if it was about money. 

IMO extremely few from the $110 tier will downgrade if the game is in danger of not reaching $2mil.

Why don't you want $30-50 alpha testers btw? 

Because as I edited in my post above before you quoted lol, I think you need serious people alpha testing or IT testing. You can't just throw alpha testing at any shlub tossing down less than a box cost for a game just because they might want to play it early.

 

I've seen you post a ton here prior to KS launch supporting the game and frothing at the mouth for it. Yet recently I saw you post that you wouldn't be giving them money until they added alhpa acces to $30 and $50 tiers. Did you honestly expect them to throw alpha access to such a low tier anyone could get into it? I think this suggestion is more about what it will take to get you to pledge than the overall impact. Having it at that low a tier would be detrimental to their testing procedures no doubt. You need a group of people who are determined and understand what state the game is in. By adding a $30 or $50 tier alpha access anyone who pays less than a box price for the game would be in alpha. By having it such a small amount there is a greater than average chance they are just someone preordering cheaper and not so vested in the game's well being. More than like they would not be willing to put up with what an alpha is really like. I could see a lot of passer by's picking it up and being bad for the overall testing of the game.

Wait a second. The guy who gives $30-50 to game that is pretty much still in concept stage and 2.5 years away from release is a passer-by and a shlob? I think that guy deserves a little more respect.

 

And it's not about me. Look at the statistics. There are many like me who can afford $30-50 and choose not to give anything.

There is a greater likelyhood that the $30-$50 backer is a passer by  preordering the game for less than the box cost in most cases yes. I don't think you can argue that really. Now its not all of them by any means. The shlub comment might have been a bit off I agree, but its not offbase that the average backer of the current alpha tiers knows what they are getting into where as if you make it available to effectively everyone who wants the get the game, the vast majority wouldn't know what hit them when they logged into alpha. That could cause a lot to leave either testing or even future launch of the game because people are so used to alpha's being at a more complete state than this will be. I'd rather have the dedicated few in IT/alpha where the "game" is going to be a mess, than the masses. Let the masses come into later beta phases where its actually a game and they won't be so put off.

 

Like i said in an earlier post, if the alpha tiers do not sell out offer up an add on in the FP store to add alpha status to an account/backer at lower tiers. That way anyone that drops a lower tier of backing can add a little more to get in, but know what they are getting into.

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/14/13 12:10:57 AM#19
Originally posted by Taldier
Originally posted by boxsnd

Fact 1: The #1 most wanted reward is alpha access. Proof: http://www.kickstat.net/kscamelot/bargraftiertotalindkomstcamelot.png

$110 is the Digital Collectors Edition.  Its the first tier that really gives you a bunch of extra stuff on top of the game.  Its not much more than the tier right before it but has quite a bit more stuff.

$250 is the first tier with a lifetime subscription.

And both of them have Alpha. If they didn't they would be a lot less popular. 

As I said it's about playing earlier.

Compare the $175 with the $180. They are almost the same the only difference is alpha vs internal so the $180 has x5 more sales than tha $175.

Also, there are 4 tiers above $100 wich give beta. They have 127 total sales (32 sales per tier). If that's not proof enough I don't know what is :)

 

I think your evaluation and "proof" are pretty simplistic when you intentionally avoid pointing out those factors.

 

And your numbers make a lot of assumptions.  Just because the slots are there doesnt mean they can automatically handle that many people.  They can handle that many people if they actually have the money from those pledges.

The difference between 15000 players at $110, $250 and higher versus 15000 players at $25 is enough money to hire a lot of support staff for those players.

 What support staff? It's an alpha. You don't need support for an alpha. Is there a problem? Report it. The end. Your problem will be solved in the next few patches.

Plus servers are dirt-cheap.

As for alpha, I think most people who want it dont even know what it is.  This is actually going to be an alpha.  Not what companies call alpha now just to hype you up.  Stuff is going to break.  Its not just going to be running around playing the game to figure out what character you want to play at launch.  There is over a year between alpha and launch.  A lot of changes can and probably will happen in that time.

 WRONG: This was the case in the old alpha(which is now called internal testing). 

Honestly if people cant pledge $110 they probably dont have the time to really commit to the testing process.

More money doesn't make you a better tester.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 449

 
OP  4/14/13 12:13:11 AM#20
Originally posted by Raagnarz

Like i said in an earlier post, if the alpha tiers do not sell out offer up an add on in the FP store to add alpha status to an account/backer at lower tiers. That way anyone that drops a lower tier of backing can add a little more to get in, but know what they are getting into.

That would be a good solution as well. 

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

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