Trending Games | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2 | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,905,568 Users Online:0
Games:757  Posts:6,295,357
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » F2P Model heading for disaster an "apocalypse" in 3-5 years

16 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Last Search
313 posts found
  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1804

4/12/13 5:01:23 PM#101

I have a feeling what MJ is possibly referring to is the fact that the f2p model right now is like the new west of the business world. Crazy crap is going on like real online money, flat out gambling and pretty much online businesses being made within games themselves at times. Most of this has nearly zero regulation and one huge universal truth is that when countries find out real unaccounted money is changing hands out side of their control they crack the f$ck down on it to get their piece of the pie and ensure businesses are bound to local governance.

 

If you think the USA sits by and watches companies and players throwing real money around especially money that crosses boarders without regulation and think nothing of it you are incredibly naive. The USA is the hard ass country on the planet when it comes to money crossing their boarders. The interenet is the next and current battlegound for this sort of thing. I can only see more regulation coming to balance protection of customer, business and government. Regulation = restrictions.

You stay sassy!

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/12/13 5:02:51 PM#102

There are two fundamental problems with any F2P game:

1.) The small minority pays for the vast majority

2.) The game is designed around inconveniencing you enough to pay

To the first point, it is well established that "whales," users that spend $50, $100, maybe $500+ per month bear a lot of the cost of the game. The majority of players may spend a few bucks, but many never do. They play for free, forever. The whales are willing to pay a premium for premium treatment, but it is unhealthy to rely on a few very spendy patrons to support everyone.

The second point is even more crucial. A subscription game's goal is to keep you entertained enough to keep you subscribed. They need to earn your subscription each month, and when they fail to do that, they fail to get your money.

A F2P game needs to keep you entertained, too, but almost as important, they need to keep you inconvenienced. If the game had absolutely no restrictions for playing freely, few would buy anything. So, the developers design annoyances right into the game. These range from flat-out content restrictions, to time-based restrictions, to perk restrictions. Their goal is to hook you by making the game available for free, getting you playing, but then making it so progression is either very hard or very annoying witout buying things. And once you start buying, the cost can add up to far, far more than $15 per month. It has to, since not everyone pays. If you are paying, you are paying for yourself and probably another 10 players or more.

These annoyances are things like bag space, or making some duneons or areas or classes or races unavailable, or making your rate of gold, item, or experience gain less. Or it could be that you can buy points to make time-based tasks like crafting finish instantly. There are literally hundreds of ways to monetize things, and most are not just cosmetic. If a developer relied purely on the cosmetic, not enough people would be motivated to pay.

I would rather play a game where everyone pays the VERY reasonable price of $10-15 per month to get equal, full access to everything. I do not like supporting others, I do not like gating content and such behind cash shops, and I do not like being annoyed in-game to buy things.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

4/12/13 5:06:56 PM#103
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I genuinely hope F2P goes away soon.  It's not a good fit for community driven games like MMO's.  Sure it brings a few players back to a failing game for a month or two but other than that it's not really helping to advance the genre. 

Subscription based communities are no better.

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 947

4/12/13 5:07:07 PM#104
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by Celcius

 

Just want to clear something up here...so you don't like B2P games? Did you buy Bioshock Infinite, Skyrim, or anything else along those lines? Those games are essentially B2P games with a shorter shelf life. They come out at full price. They provide content DLC for money. Hell, they give you less content then B2P MMOs do since they generally charge for additional content.

I think part of it is what I just mentioned. Games in general are starting to adopt to MMO style payment models. This is something the entire medium is facing, not just MMOs. The thing is about MMO players who are keen on paying a sub (and probably pay one already) feel like they need to defend it because they pay or have paid for it. I guess they feel they are in some sort of VIP lounge that only the cool kids who pay a sub can enter.  Alot of these guys try to convince people, themselves included, that when you pay a subscription you get a higher quality product. This is simply not true anymore. Some would argue that it has never been true.

So let's clear something up, you think Skyrim should of been F2P? How would that work my friend, I would like to hear your brilliant plans on how to carry the F2P movement over to single player games.

I didn't realise we were debating single player games here.

 

I was talking about B2P games. Which are different then F2P games. And yes, singleplayer games are adapting a model similar to that of B2P games. I was proving a point which you clearly could not comprehend.

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2441

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

4/12/13 5:08:16 PM#105
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I genuinely hope F2P goes away soon.  It's not a good fit for community driven games like MMO's.  Sure it brings a few players back to a failing game for a month or two but other than that it's not really helping to advance the genre. 

Well said.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Melloz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/13
Posts: 26

4/12/13 5:08:22 PM#106
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Zinzan
Originally posted by gylnne

This warning coming from Mark Jacobs in a recent article he did which included his opinion on the unsustainable f2p model so many games are using.

 

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned of an impending free-to-play “apocalypse” in three to five years time, thanks to a rush towards unsustainable free-to-play models. He predicted to VG247 that developers will close and publishers stand to lose a lot of money.

“The whole free-to-play thing isn’t going away tomorrow,” Jacobs stressed, “but let’s just see what happens in three to five years – and I’m betting closer to three – where free-to-play will become just another model. Right now you’ve got everybody chasing it, going ‘Isn’t this great? Free to play, we’re going to make so much money’”.

Jacobs felt that many developers and publishers are chasing the free-to-play market in the hope that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money on micro-payment items. He doesn’t see it as an economically viable strategy."

Continue reading here:  f2p heading for disaster

That's a pretty damning article, so CU can never, ever go F2P now, not unless MJ eats his words. oh and alienating most of his potential player base is a bit bold.

I wonder if he may live to regret this statement if/when CU decides to introduce micro transactions.....F2P is a bad thing maybe, but a subscription based game with a cash shop? 

LOL. I've already alienated a lot of my potential playerbase by saying:

1) No PvE leveling

2) Subscription-based only

3) It won't be a successor to Dark Age of Camelot

What I said in this article wasn't news to our backers. In terms of a cash shop, I'd rather shut the game down at that point.

I guess I find it troubling that you're willing to flush all of the money and time a community has invested in your business venture if it doesn't pan out how you want.

This is a major reason why I haven't donated to any Kickstarter yet.  There are no investor protections past funding.  If you were beholden to a publisher or publically traded company it wouldn't be as easy to throw away everything everyone else has put into the project.

It's what I, and I think many others, want as well.  If it went to a cash shop, I'm pretty sure I'd quit based on my previous experiences with that type of system.  So I have no problems with him saying that he'd rather shut down the game than compromise it that way.

Being beholden to publishers or shareholders that must make more and more money now is exactly what's broken many games in the past including DAoC and WAR.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

4/12/13 5:17:26 PM#107
Originally posted by gylnne

This warning coming from Mark Jacobs in a recent article he did which included his opinion on the unsustainable f2p model so many games are using.

 

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned of an impending free-to-play “apocalypse” in three to five years time, thanks to a rush towards unsustainable free-to-play models. He predicted to VG247 that developers will close and publishers stand to lose a lot of money.

“The whole free-to-play thing isn’t going away tomorrow,” Jacobs stressed, “but let’s just see what happens in three to five years – and I’m betting closer to three – where free-to-play will become just another model. Right now you’ve got everybody chasing it, going ‘Isn’t this great? Free to play, we’re going to make so much money’”.

Jacobs felt that many developers and publishers are chasing the free-to-play market in the hope that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money on micro-payment items. He doesn’t see it as an economically viable strategy."

Continue reading here:  f2p heading for disaster

 I don't see where he's getting at. Wtith a proper F2P model on a good game and I stress good his article has firm ground to stand on. The subscription model can be looked at the same way. Why would anyone pay 15 dollars a month for a game that's not worthy of a 15 dollar monthly charge. Only good games such as WoW, Rift, EQ, and etc can stand the test of time with these models. 

 Why do I say those games? Well because they're the only companies willing enough to actually put forth effor into pumping out content. However, I don't believe a company like TRION should be up there. They've had roughly 1 expansion since release? I think at that point they're pushing it for my 15 dollars.

 The point being and will remain; if your game isn't worth the money. Why would the customer be willing to pay for a constant monthly fee? In addition, many companies like like WoW are double dipping into the cash shop as well. So pardon my language but that's a double fuck you to their customers.

 I'd also like to add that F2P games have been going on for many years. This isn't something new to the MMO genre. It's just "new" to the western audiance because eastern MMO's are making their way over to us and they're starting to become much more worth a customers dollar than these "AAA" titles have to offer.

 MJ will understand fully if his game does not meet the customers standard for a 15 dollar monthly fee. I believe he's shooting too high and as of right now only has concept art and ideas that he's throwing about for his game. While yes, he was the owner of Mythic at one time and Mythic did create DAoC. I don't believe we'll see anymore good work coming from MJ; because you're only as good as your last project (Warhammer Online).

 Kudos to him if he pulls a decent game off. However, in the MMO community catering to the new customer base who only wants a game and not a world. You will lose your hardwork to the content locust and you will eventually lean towards F2P. From what I'm reading CU can be altered in everyway to benefit from a F2P model. With them selling off plots of lands and what not I'm quite interested to see if he actually will make it properly.

 Hopefully he also knows that a PvP only game does not last too long in a gamers eyes when there's no insentive to work towards (Fury Online, GW 2 WvW). It gets boring fast.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  znaiika

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 203

4/12/13 5:25:28 PM#108

I am not a fan of F2P, but I disagree on this disaster thing, most likely it is going to mutate and actualy become better hybrid model.

If any developer want to be successfull, they need to be adoptive to all kind of play styles.

Lets be real, not everyone likes a red car, or wear same clothes, or eat same food, etc, etc, etc....

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6022

4/12/13 5:31:44 PM#109
Originally posted by Melloz
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Zinzan
Originally posted by gylnne

This warning coming from Mark Jacobs in a recent article he did which included his opinion on the unsustainable f2p model so many games are using.

 

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned of an impending free-to-play “apocalypse” in three to five years time, thanks to a rush towards unsustainable free-to-play models. He predicted to VG247 that developers will close and publishers stand to lose a lot of money.

“The whole free-to-play thing isn’t going away tomorrow,” Jacobs stressed, “but let’s just see what happens in three to five years – and I’m betting closer to three – where free-to-play will become just another model. Right now you’ve got everybody chasing it, going ‘Isn’t this great? Free to play, we’re going to make so much money’”.

Jacobs felt that many developers and publishers are chasing the free-to-play market in the hope that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money on micro-payment items. He doesn’t see it as an economically viable strategy."

Continue reading here:  f2p heading for disaster

That's a pretty damning article, so CU can never, ever go F2P now, not unless MJ eats his words. oh and alienating most of his potential player base is a bit bold.

I wonder if he may live to regret this statement if/when CU decides to introduce micro transactions.....F2P is a bad thing maybe, but a subscription based game with a cash shop? 

LOL. I've already alienated a lot of my potential playerbase by saying:

1) No PvE leveling

2) Subscription-based only

3) It won't be a successor to Dark Age of Camelot

What I said in this article wasn't news to our backers. In terms of a cash shop, I'd rather shut the game down at that point.

I guess I find it troubling that you're willing to flush all of the money and time a community has invested in your business venture if it doesn't pan out how you want.

This is a major reason why I haven't donated to any Kickstarter yet.  There are no investor protections past funding.  If you were beholden to a publisher or publically traded company it wouldn't be as easy to throw away everything everyone else has put into the project.

It's what I, and I think many others, want as well.  If it went to a cash shop, I'm pretty sure I'd quit based on my previous experiences with that type of system.  So I have no problems with him saying that he'd rather shut down the game than compromise it that way.

Being beholden to publishers or shareholders that must make more and more money now is exactly what's broken many games in the past including DAoC and WAR.

I don't think financial responsibility to a parent corporation "broke many games".  Bad development and design decisions "break" games.  That's just an excuse.

While I think keeping the integrity of his principles intact is somewhat commendable, I also think that is a major hamper to adoption and support of these sorts of projects.

It's interesting to me that on one hand he's praised for his adamant adherence to a vision, yet you don't trust him to implement a cash shop.  So far there are a little under seven thousand people willing to donate to the project (at an average of approximately $160 per pledge).  Yet they will toss it all away if they offered a cash shop?  You trust him with money, no working demo, but not with implementing an alternative business model even if it means you get to keep your game.

If the population were too small to support his expected subscription price, would you be willing to pay $30, $40, or even $50 per month in sub fees to compensate?  After all $30 is just a dollar a day.  You probably burn more gas than that just driving to lunch.

Curse you AquaScum!

  supergfunk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 92

4/12/13 5:32:30 PM#110

Bottom line is, any game company has to make money....nothing is ever gonna be "free" so the business model is not really the concern, what really matters is the quality of the game and whether or not it's fun to play...

 

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

4/12/13 5:36:31 PM#111
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Melloz
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Zinzan
Originally posted by gylnne

This warning coming from Mark Jacobs in a recent article he did which included his opinion on the unsustainable f2p model so many games are using.

 

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned of an impending free-to-play “apocalypse” in three to five years time, thanks to a rush towards unsustainable free-to-play models. He predicted to VG247 that developers will close and publishers stand to lose a lot of money.

“The whole free-to-play thing isn’t going away tomorrow,” Jacobs stressed, “but let’s just see what happens in three to five years – and I’m betting closer to three – where free-to-play will become just another model. Right now you’ve got everybody chasing it, going ‘Isn’t this great? Free to play, we’re going to make so much money’”.

Jacobs felt that many developers and publishers are chasing the free-to-play market in the hope that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money on micro-payment items. He doesn’t see it as an economically viable strategy."

Continue reading here:  f2p heading for disaster

That's a pretty damning article, so CU can never, ever go F2P now, not unless MJ eats his words. oh and alienating most of his potential player base is a bit bold.

I wonder if he may live to regret this statement if/when CU decides to introduce micro transactions.....F2P is a bad thing maybe, but a subscription based game with a cash shop? 

LOL. I've already alienated a lot of my potential playerbase by saying:

1) No PvE leveling

2) Subscription-based only

3) It won't be a successor to Dark Age of Camelot

What I said in this article wasn't news to our backers. In terms of a cash shop, I'd rather shut the game down at that point.

I guess I find it troubling that you're willing to flush all of the money and time a community has invested in your business venture if it doesn't pan out how you want.

This is a major reason why I haven't donated to any Kickstarter yet.  There are no investor protections past funding.  If you were beholden to a publisher or publically traded company it wouldn't be as easy to throw away everything everyone else has put into the project.

It's what I, and I think many others, want as well.  If it went to a cash shop, I'm pretty sure I'd quit based on my previous experiences with that type of system.  So I have no problems with him saying that he'd rather shut down the game than compromise it that way.

Being beholden to publishers or shareholders that must make more and more money now is exactly what's broken many games in the past including DAoC and WAR.

I don't think financial responsibility to a parent corporation "broke many games".  Bad development and design decisions "break" games.  That's just an excuse.

While I think keeping the integrity of his principles intact is somewhat commendable, I also think that is a major hamper to adoption and support of these sorts of projects.

It's interesting to me that on one hand he's praised for his adamant adherence to a vision, yet you don't trust him to implement a cash shop.  So far there are a little under seven thousand people willing to donate to the project (at an average of approximately $160 per pledge).  Yet they will toss it all away if they offered a cash shop?  You trust him with money, no working demo, but not with implementing an alternative business model even if it means you get to keep your game.

If the population were too small to support his expected subscription price, would you be willing to pay $30, $40, or even $50 per month in sub fees to compensate?  After all $30 is just a dollar a day.  You probably burn more gas than that just driving to lunch.

 I spit at the $15.00 monthly fee model as it is. Don't give a half-twit like MJ an idea to increase a subscription model to more than double. He's already asking for free handouts as it is.

 However, do remember that a person/company is only as good as their last work (Warhammer Online).  Just because MJ left his last company in the hands of EA doesn't mean he's no longer responsible for the utter shit game they recently released.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  bingbongbros

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 592

4/12/13 5:42:27 PM#112

I've always always hated f2p.  It is great to try a game out first but overall if you choose to play the game you are going to end up spending a crap load more on the whole package.  Subscription based games never bothered me because of the sub, they bothered me because they were rushed and a buggy mess.

 

I really hope Mark is correct and 3-5 years later they all emplode and go away.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

4/12/13 5:47:33 PM#113

Jacobs proved in yet another way he is clueless.

F2P has been around since 1996, it created Nexon Inc, a juggernaut and companies are making more money with F2P than without it.

Two of the largest gaming companies were built on it. Turbine is making far more now than when they did at the peak of LotRo/DDO, It kept Funcom from closing its doors when AoC lost a large portion of its playerbase. NCSoft is still one of the largest MMO makers on the planet without subscriptions...Jacobs is looking a fool to everyone but former hardcore DaoC players, even the non-harcore DaoC players dont like him which is why they are over in the TESO forums instead of here.

But, this is coming from a man knowing he is targetting a portion of a small portion of gamers, some of the few that think DaoC was the best game. So, when you are targetting 50-75k people, its easy to hit your mark...a F2P game can cough and get 10x that many people and far more money.

Jacobs needs to wake up to reality.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

4/12/13 5:49:04 PM#114
Originally posted by bingbongbros

I've always always hated f2p.  It is great to try a game out first but overall if you choose to play the game you are going to end up spending a crap load more on the whole package.  Subscription based games never bothered me because of the sub, they bothered me because they were rushed and a buggy mess.

 

I really hope Mark is correct and 3-5 years later they all emplode and go away.

 F2P is here to stay and the jibberish spewing out of MJ's mouth is utter garbage. F2P models aren't a new thing and won't be going anywhere. They bring in much more money for a company which is always going to kill off an old dinosaur model like subscriptions. When you have "AAA" F2P MMO's being released that are on par / better than the "AAA" subscription models. Guess who is going to play what? People are going to play the F2P model in a heartbeat. Of course, if a company wants to compete against the F2P model. Lowering the cost woud easily be one way to counteract against the F2P market. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

4/12/13 5:51:20 PM#115
Originally posted by JasonJ

Jacobs proved in yet another way he is clueless.

F2P has been around since 1996, it created Nexon Inc, a juggernaut and companies are making more money with F2P than without it.

Two of the largest gaming companies were built on it. Turbine is making far more now than when they did at the peak of LotRo/DDO, It kept Funcom from closing its doors when AoC lost a large portion of its playerbase. NCSoft is still one of the largest MMO makers on the planet without subscriptions...Jacobs is looking a fool to everyone but former hardcore DaoC players, even the non-harcore DaoC players dont like him which is why they are over in the TESO forums instead of here.

But, this is coming from a man knowing he is targetting a portion of a small portion of gamers, some of the few that think DaoC was the best game. So, when you are targetting 50-75k people, its easy to hit your mark...a F2P game can cough and get 10x that many people and far more money.

Jacobs needs to wake up to reality.

 100% agree to this. F2P isn't new and could probably date back even before Nexon. 


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/12/13 5:53:12 PM#116
Originally posted by gylnne

This warning coming from Mark Jacobs in a recent article he did which included his opinion on the unsustainable f2p model so many games are using.

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned of an impending free-to-play “apocalypse” in three to five years time, thanks to a rush towards unsustainable free-to-play models. He predicted to VG247 that developers will close and publishers stand to lose a lot of money.

“The whole free-to-play thing isn’t going away tomorrow,” Jacobs stressed, “but let’s just see what happens in three to five years – and I’m betting closer to three – where free-to-play will become just another model. Right now you’ve got everybody chasing it, going ‘Isn’t this great? Free to play, we’re going to make so much money’”.

Jacobs felt that many developers and publishers are chasing the free-to-play market in the hope that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money on micro-payment items. He doesn’t see it as an economically viable strategy."

Continue reading here:  f2p heading for disaster

If you don't realize this as setting the ground work for charging a box fee and per expansion prices, you're kidding yourself. The anti-F2P clowns handed devs the golden key to their wallets when they gave the devs "B2P", and you're going to see more and more devs simply running with that.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  MondoA2J

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/13
Posts: 259

"You are mine, I'm yours, and if we die, we die. But first we'll live." Ygritte

4/12/13 5:57:26 PM#117

No idea where this subject went and I am not going to go through all that eye poking and name calling.

So I will just refer to the OP.

I doubt it.

These companies with F2P models have spent MILLIONS of dollars into research on the subject and if it would be a viable method of making money. They don't give a rats ass about the game. They care about their money....period.

Not only for today or the next year but for the next DECADE!

Any business is focused on making money for a long time not a short while. Seeing how much it costs to produce MMOs.

Ahem.... 2 million for this games KS as example....No one goes into this hoping not to make money.

Which business model is superior?

Thats for a market analyst to decide.

Which method is better for the player?

Thats YOUR decision.

If you wanna play F2P games...thats fine.

If you wanna play SUB games...thats fine.

If you wanna play B2P games....thats fine!!!

Whatever the heck floats your boat and have fun!

MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  Mtibbs1989

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2852

4/12/13 6:03:29 PM#118
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by gylnne

This warning coming from Mark Jacobs in a recent article he did which included his opinion on the unsustainable f2p model so many games are using.

"Camelot Unchained creator and long-time MMO veteran Mark Jacobs has warned of an impending free-to-play “apocalypse” in three to five years time, thanks to a rush towards unsustainable free-to-play models. He predicted to VG247 that developers will close and publishers stand to lose a lot of money.

“The whole free-to-play thing isn’t going away tomorrow,” Jacobs stressed, “but let’s just see what happens in three to five years – and I’m betting closer to three – where free-to-play will become just another model. Right now you’ve got everybody chasing it, going ‘Isn’t this great? Free to play, we’re going to make so much money’”.

Jacobs felt that many developers and publishers are chasing the free-to-play market in the hope that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money on micro-payment items. He doesn’t see it as an economically viable strategy."

Continue reading here:  f2p heading for disaster

If you don't realize this as setting the ground work for charging a box fee and per expansion prices, you're kdding yourself. The anti-F2P clowns handed devs the golden key to their wallets when they gave the devs "B2P", and you're going to see more and more devs simply running with that.

 

 You know what's quite funny?

I could say the same thing about Jacobs chasing the dream of the subscription model, "Jacobs feels that he can chase the subscription model in the hopes that a small percentage of players will actually lay down money. He sees it as an economically viable strategy."

Do you see what I did there? It made me laugh a bit ^.^

 MJ If you read this, you're chasing the great white whale. The only companies who've managed to catch it are few and far in between. Your chance is long gone buddy. Especially after the release of Warhammer Online. I can't believe how many people actually blindly follow you into the depths. So far you have 7,000 willing people who were dumb enough to had you free money. Good luck chasing a dream.

 I love how a person is willing enough to blantantly state the quality of the game lies within the payment model. It's actually quite funny to listen to this guy talk in the interview. The only thing apocalyptic that's going to happen is the after math when people find out CU will end up failing and then turns F2P. Because then we can all laugh at MJ and his incompetence as a businessman and a game designer.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Stizzled

Tipster

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1073

Kill Your Heroes

4/12/13 6:18:08 PM#119
Originally posted by bingbongbros

I've always always hated f2p.  It is great to try a game out first but overall if you choose to play the game you are going to end up spending a crap load more on the whole package.  Subscription based games never bothered me because of the sub, they bothered me because they were rushed and a buggy mess.

 

I really hope Mark is correct and 3-5 years later they all emplode and go away.

People always say this, but is it really true? Of all the F2P games I've played, I couldn't imagine spending $240 on the game in it's first year, and then $180 - $220 (sub + $20 - $40 expac) every year after.

 

Are there people who spend more than that in F2P games? Well sure, there are people who spend that much in a month. But, my question is, do they really need to? I'm betting that most of the time the answer is no.

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

4/12/13 6:21:53 PM#120
Originally posted by Mkilbride

 

He also said that, if the game is in a state where it has to go F2P...he's shutting it down.

THis really the wrong attiude and something that kills games when a developer speaks.

LotrO had been running all server , without merging , with healthy populations for years. Then they did DDo which also had an impressive following before free to play mmove, after free to play they added servers.

 What people like Mark Jacobs is missing is the fact the free to play opens up a game world to a bigger market share, and it is not about making 10 dollars a month, but 1 dollar a minute.

Turbine is doing extremely well in that regard, SOE as well.

SO what Mark Jacobs is telling his fans of CU, I would rather have a limited number of players, make them spend 9.99 for what could be a medicre game, rather then having a larger player base who will spend 1 dollar  minute and give the subscription players , actual players to play with.

 

CU is a nich game, and to think little under 9k people can keep a server alive... is laughable and it is also a waste of resources.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

16 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Last Search