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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » [POLL] If TES:O Did Not Have AvAvA, Would You Play it?

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90 posts found
  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

4/11/13 2:15:42 PM#41
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by azzamasin

No because the game would be to one-dimensional.

 

I'd still play it but I would get burnt out of doing the same stuff and would likely find myself quitting after the first month or 2.  There jsut wont be enough content to satiate the average gamer.  Hence the reason why I continue to support the AvA style conflict ontop of an amazing Elder Scrolls Experience.

 

Yup. That's how I feel too. No one has ever been able to satisfy the appetites of those who live for PvE content consumption. They always pig-out on it faster than they can serve it.

It's always much better to design a game system that has replayability than constantly adding content. Is AvA in this game going to be worth doing over and over again? Hard to tell at this point. But if it's done right, it has the potential for having much more long-lasting appeal than waiting for yet another top-gear-entry only raid content that is almost identical to the previous content except the bad guys have different names and their bad-shit-on-the-floor-that-must-be-avoided-with-just-a-jump-to-the-left-and-then-a-step-to-the-right is a different shade of puce.

I can understand that having multiple play styles catered to, adds depth to a game.  The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all.  Every single MMO I have ever followed had PvPers whining about one thing or another, if it wasn't about primary representation in the game, then it was about class balance at the expense of the PvE game or believing they deserve better loot than regular adventurers and equal to raiders.

 

Even more insidiously is their constant push to funnel PvE players into PvP areas by tying it into PvE quests and rewards.  This is something I see them push for all the time, a nice constant flow of cannon fodder and easy pickings.

 You're talking about different things than I am and both of yours can be put into the single category of bad development.

There are creative ways to balance PvP separately from PvE without need for separate gear or bogus PVP-only stats. Rift took a good crack at it with the PvP soul that each class has available...except they didn't go far enough. ESO will also have AvA-only skill progression with 3 separate branches. That has potential for PvP balancing without hurting the PvE. Also don't forget that PvE only games are also constantly being tweaked and rebalkanced based exclusively on PvE criteria. It's a cliche that those nerfed in PvE always blame PvP balancing for the change when often, it was all about PvE balancing the overpowerd heals that were trivializing the content, for example.

Aslo.. I've never heard PvPers complain about PvP just being a tacked-on ugly step-child except when it is...like in LOTRO... like in vanilla WOW. There are bad development trends, usually motivated by the bottom line, where developers try to be everything to all people. Some players are so used to having it that way, that when a developer has the vision, focus and balls to not do that, all hell breaks lose in the forums with people demanding things like raids, PvE with anyone from all factions, scenario PvP, etc.

This particular MMO is RvR--or AvA if you prefer-centric. It has been designed that way. It's a horse, not a cow. Horses are for riding and cows are for milking. You can try to do it the opposite way but the results won't be ideal.

Bad development from your perspective, not mine nor the many, many others who could give a rat's ass about PvP.

 

You are either new to the genre or new to the world of gaming sites, as the PvP fanatics have been around and complaining since the days I started playing EverQuest back in 1999.  Although I know it had been going on even before that with UO and the whole Trammel affair, but I didn't learn about that till I started lurking other boards besides those for EQ.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4125

4/11/13 2:17:57 PM#42
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by azzamasin

No because the game would be to one-dimensional.

 

I'd still play it but I would get burnt out of doing the same stuff and would likely find myself quitting after the first month or 2.  There jsut wont be enough content to satiate the average gamer.  Hence the reason why I continue to support the AvA style conflict ontop of an amazing Elder Scrolls Experience.

 

Yup. That's how I feel too. No one has ever been able to satisfy the appetites of those who live for PvE content consumption. They always pig-out on it faster than they can serve it.

It's always much better to design a game system that has replayability than constantly adding content. Is AvA in this game going to be worth doing over and over again? Hard to tell at this point. But if it's done right, it has the potential for having much more long-lasting appeal than waiting for yet another top-gear-entry only raid content that is almost identical to the previous content except the bad guys have different names and their bad-shit-on-the-floor-that-must-be-avoided-with-just-a-jump-to-the-left-and-then-a-step-to-the-right is a different shade of puce.

I can understand that having multiple play styles catered to, adds depth to a game.  The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all.  Every single MMO I have ever followed had PvPers whining about one thing or another, if it wasn't about primary representation in the game, then it was about class balance at the expense of the PvE game or believing they deserve better loot than regular adventurers and equal to raiders.

 

Even more insidiously is their constant push to funnel PvE players into PvP areas by tying it into PvE quests and rewards.  This is something I see them push for all the time, a nice constant flow of cannon fodder and easy pickings.

 You're talking about different things than I am and both of yours can be put into the single category of bad development.

There are creative ways to balance PvP separately from PvE without need for separate gear or bogus PVP-only stats. Rift took a good crack at it with the PvP soul that each class has available...except they didn't go far enough. ESO will also have AvA-only skill progression with 3 separate branches. That has potential for PvP balancing without hurting the PvE. Also don't forget that PvE only games are also constantly being tweaked and rebalkanced based exclusively on PvE criteria. It's a cliche that those nerfed in PvE always blame PvP balancing for the change when often, it was all about PvE balancing the overpowerd heals that were trivializing the content, for example.

Aslo.. I've never heard PvPers complain about PvP just being a tacked-on ugly step-child except when it is...like in LOTRO... like in vanilla WOW. There are bad development trends, usually motivated by the bottom line, where developers try to be everything to all people. Some players are so used to having it that way, that when a developer has the vision, focus and balls to not do that, all hell breaks lose in the forums with people demanding things like raids, PvE with anyone from all factions, scenario PvP, etc.

This particular MMO is RvR--or AvA if you prefer-centric. It has been designed that way. It's a horse, not a cow. Horses are for riding and cows are for milking. You can try to do it the opposite way but the results won't be ideal.

Bad development from your perspective, not mine nor the many, many others who could give a rat's ass about PvP.

 There....are....other...games.

Or put differently. I don't give a rat's ass about your rat's ass.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

4/11/13 2:19:44 PM#43
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by azzamasin

No because the game would be to one-dimensional.

 

I'd still play it but I would get burnt out of doing the same stuff and would likely find myself quitting after the first month or 2.  There jsut wont be enough content to satiate the average gamer.  Hence the reason why I continue to support the AvA style conflict ontop of an amazing Elder Scrolls Experience.

 

Yup. That's how I feel too. No one has ever been able to satisfy the appetites of those who live for PvE content consumption. They always pig-out on it faster than they can serve it.

It's always much better to design a game system that has replayability than constantly adding content. Is AvA in this game going to be worth doing over and over again? Hard to tell at this point. But if it's done right, it has the potential for having much more long-lasting appeal than waiting for yet another top-gear-entry only raid content that is almost identical to the previous content except the bad guys have different names and their bad-shit-on-the-floor-that-must-be-avoided-with-just-a-jump-to-the-left-and-then-a-step-to-the-right is a different shade of puce.

I can understand that having multiple play styles catered to, adds depth to a game.  The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all.  Every single MMO I have ever followed had PvPers whining about one thing or another, if it wasn't about primary representation in the game, then it was about class balance at the expense of the PvE game or believing they deserve better loot than regular adventurers and equal to raiders.

 

Even more insidiously is their constant push to funnel PvE players into PvP areas by tying it into PvE quests and rewards.  This is something I see them push for all the time, a nice constant flow of cannon fodder and easy pickings.

 You're talking about different things than I am and both of yours can be put into the single category of bad development.

There are creative ways to balance PvP separately from PvE without need for separate gear or bogus PVP-only stats. Rift took a good crack at it with the PvP soul that each class has available...except they didn't go far enough. ESO will also have AvA-only skill progression with 3 separate branches. That has potential for PvP balancing without hurting the PvE. Also don't forget that PvE only games are also constantly being tweaked and rebalkanced based exclusively on PvE criteria. It's a cliche that those nerfed in PvE always blame PvP balancing for the change when often, it was all about PvE balancing the overpowerd heals that were trivializing the content, for example.

Aslo.. I've never heard PvPers complain about PvP just being a tacked-on ugly step-child except when it is...like in LOTRO... like in vanilla WOW. There are bad development trends, usually motivated by the bottom line, where developers try to be everything to all people. Some players are so used to having it that way, that when a developer has the vision, focus and balls to not do that, all hell breaks lose in the forums with people demanding things like raids, PvE with anyone from all factions, scenario PvP, etc.

This particular MMO is RvR--or AvA if you prefer-centric. It has been designed that way. It's a horse, not a cow. Horses are for riding and cows are for milking. You can try to do it the opposite way but the results won't be ideal.

Bad development from your perspective, not mine nor the many, many others who could give a rat's ass about PvP.

 There....are....other...games.

...and this one is still in development and the developer is obviously open to criticism and feedback as is evident with the recent level 50 exploration changes.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4125

4/11/13 2:21:01 PM#44
Originally posted by Vorthanion
...and this one is still in development and the developer is obviously open to criticism and feedback as is evident with the recent level 50 exploration changes.

 Yes. Let's go over to the Archeage forum and demand a themepark.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

4/11/13 2:22:44 PM#45
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
...and this one is still in development and the developer is obviously open to criticism and feedback as is evident with the recent level 50 exploration changes.

 Yes. Let's go over to the Archeage forum and demand a themepark.

More power to you.  I'm not the one trying to suppress opinions here.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4125

4/11/13 2:23:58 PM#46
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
...and this one is still in development and the developer is obviously open to criticism and feedback as is evident with the recent level 50 exploration changes.

 Yes. Let's go over to the Archeage forum and demand a themepark.

More power to you.  I'm not the one trying to suppress opinions here.

 And I'm not the one trying to criticize other's opinions dismissively and aggresively.

I can keep this up all day if you wish.

  jmcdermottuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 918

4/11/13 2:24:33 PM#47

I agree with Spotty Geko. I'd love to play a good MMO based on TES but I just don't feel like this is it. This feels too much like DAoC wrapped in a TES box to me. I'm not gonna get drawn into that debate again though.

Suffice to say that my opinion is an unpopular one on this forum. So, really it doesn't matter what they do with the PvP in this title, I'll be giving it a miss. If another was to be developed in the future and it had the same 3 locked factions and the same RvR model, I'd pass on that one too. If it wasn't a proper sandbox then forget it.

On a side note, I see that the very vocal minority of FFA PvP Full Loot fans only managed 2.4% of the vote. If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1966

4/11/13 2:26:53 PM#48
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Vorthanion
...and this one is still in development and the developer is obviously open to criticism and feedback as is evident with the recent level 50 exploration changes.

 Yes. Let's go over to the Archeage forum and demand a themepark.

More power to you.  I'm not the one trying to suppress opinions here.

 And I'm not the one trying to criticize other's opinions dismissively and aggresively.

I can keep this up all day if you wish.

Honey, you have been aggressive and dismissive at one point or another in all of these topics about ESO.  Seriously, do you think we are blind to it?

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

4/11/13 2:38:57 PM#49
Originally posted by Iselin

I can keep this up all day if you wish.

Now don't go Iseling up the thread.  It's Bethesda's fault, they like player input - in the past they have encouraged and responded to it.  Yeah, I know Zenimax is making the game but some of us are just more traditional when it comes to the Elder Scrolls franchise.

If you want to try and change another game, that's between you and that gathering.  I am here because I am an Elder Scrolls fan and I have a concern for their upcoming product.  I appreciate your input on a lot of matters but criticizing a criticizer is mulling over null.
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4125

4/11/13 2:46:06 PM#50
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Iselin

I can keep this up all day if you wish.

Now don't go Iseling up the thread.  It's Bethesda's fault, they like player input - in the past they have encouraged and responded to it.  Yeah, I know Zenimax is making the game but some of us are just more traditional when it comes to the Elder Scrolls franchise.

If you want to try and change another game, that's between you and that gathering.  I am here because I am an Elder Scrolls fan and I have a concern for their upcoming product.  I appreciate your input on a lot of matters but criticizing a criticizer is mulling over null.

Although I appreciate your intervention and attempt at pay-back humor (Iseling... I do believe I once referred to a thread getting sapphened) just follow the bouncing ball and notice the tone and style of the posts preceding the one you've quoted...if you can be objective that is.

Notice that he even played the "you must be new to gaming" cliched gaming credential card.

It's all there in black and white....I'll wait.

  Leiloni

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/12
Posts: 383

4/11/13 2:55:36 PM#51
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all. 

No, we shouldn't. Most MMO's are PvE centric with PvP tacked on and it does not work for players who prefer PvP. We deserve a few PvP centric games when most are PvE centric, don't we? Why shouldn't we get a game that we enjoy as well? How would you feel if the tables were turned and the majority of your gameplay from level 1 onward was PvP only with a tacked on PvE instance as a mere side game?

 

Here's my question - why are so many PvEers on this website so anti PvP? Why is there so much hatred for it? Most PVPers I know not only tolerate PvE, they enjoy it and participate in it at endgame levels in most of their MMO's. We just happen to also enjoy PvP quite a bit. Why are PvPers more tolerant than the supposedly nice and sweet and friendly PvE crowd? HMM?

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

4/11/13 3:03:17 PM#52
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all. 

No, we shouldn't. Most MMO's are PvE centric with PvP tacked on and it does not work for players who prefer PvP. We deserve a few PvP centric games when most are PvE centric, don't we? Why shouldn't we get a game that we enjoy as well? How would you feel if the tables were turned and the majority of your gameplay from level 1 onward was PvP only with a tacked on PvE instance as a mere side game?

This, and herro Leiloni didnt expect to see you here. 

I voted for full loot PvP. I'm still waiting for a decent development studio to do it right again. But right now PvE is the main focus of every game that has been released except a select few in the past decade or so. Shadowbane, DAoC, MO and DF come to mind. The only decent one out of those was DAoC. Shadowbane had potential but it just didn't pick up for obvious reasons. MO and DF are just broken games that should never of been attempted by such terrible studios. 

PvPers deserve a decent PvP game and if ESO is that game then so be it. Tired of going on forums and watching all the PvEers complain because everything under the sun isn't catered to their spoiled little asses (this isn't directed at anyone in particular obviously). 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4125

4/11/13 3:04:01 PM#53
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all. 

No, we shouldn't. Most MMO's are PvE centric with PvP tacked on and it does not work for players who prefer PvP. We deserve a few PvP centric games when most are PvE centric, don't we? Why shouldn't we get a game that we enjoy as well? How would you feel if the tables were turned and the majority of your gameplay from level 1 onward was PvP only with a tacked on PvE instance as a mere side game?

 

Here's my question - why are so many PvEers on this website so anti PvP? Why is there so much hatred for it? Most PVPers I know not only tolerate PvE, they enjoy it and participate in it at endgame levels in most of their MMO's. We just happen to also enjoy PvP quite a bit. Why are PvPers more tolerant than the supposedly nice and sweet and friendly PvE crowd? HMM?

Exactly. You've also hit on one of the key underlying themes in this forum that is liberally sprinkled throughout most of the complaints. The difference is only in how willing they are to admit to their pvp intolerance.

Some even claim to like PvP but everything they say is about how PvE is "suffering" at the hands of the PvP crowd...all this before they've played one minute of this game's PvE.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

4/11/13 3:09:07 PM#54
Originally posted by Iselin

Although I appreciate your intervention and attempt at pay-back humor (Iseling... I do believe I once referred to a thread getting sapphened) just follow the bouncing ball and notice the tone and style of the posts preceding the one you've quoted...if you can be objective that is.

Notice that he even played the "you must be new to gaming" cliched gaming credential card.

It's all there in black and white....I'll wait.

We all have our moments of card dealing, I can't judge either of you.  Just a friendly reminder that it's okay to have different ideas.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4125

4/11/13 3:15:05 PM#55
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Iselin

Although I appreciate your intervention and attempt at pay-back humor (Iseling... I do believe I once referred to a thread getting sapphened) just follow the bouncing ball and notice the tone and style of the posts preceding the one you've quoted...if you can be objective that is.

Notice that he even played the "you must be new to gaming" cliched gaming credential card.

It's all there in black and white....I'll wait.

We all have our moments of card dealing, I can't judge either of you.  Just a friendly reminder that it's okay to have different ideas.

 That we can agree on.

  eldaris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 340

4/11/13 4:00:19 PM#56

No,I don't like any type of pvp beside rvr/faction vs faction etc and I find a pve only game boring(in LOTRO I spent a lot of time in monster area because it was the only pvp available,so much that I lost interest in leveling my free people character)

  Miblet

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 334

4/11/13 4:34:51 PM#57
Originally posted by Leiloni
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The problem is that PvPers are never happy unless PvP is central to the game.  Otherwise, they whine about PvP being tacked on as an afterthought, when they should be happy to get any at all. 

No, we shouldn't. Most MMO's are PvE centric with PvP tacked on and it does not work for players who prefer PvP. We deserve a few PvP centric games when most are PvE centric, don't we? Why shouldn't we get a game that we enjoy as well? How would you feel if the tables were turned and the majority of your gameplay from level 1 onward was PvP only with a tacked on PvE instance as a mere side game?

 

Here's my question - why are so many PvEers on this website so anti PvP? Why is there so much hatred for it? Most PVPers I know not only tolerate PvE, they enjoy it and participate in it at endgame levels in most of their MMO's. We just happen to also enjoy PvP quite a bit. Why are PvPers more tolerant than the supposedly nice and sweet and friendly PvE crowd? HMM?

It's my experience that both extreme PvE players and extreme PvP players are no different in how they argue their points.   Most people want a game tailored to their tastes.  To say PvPers or PvEers are more or less tolerant is biased  I could for example pull out countless threads about how games should be purely PvP as PvE is stale and boring and no fun and PvE players ruin PvP.  The reality is most people couldn't care less as long as the game is fun and has choice.  Besides I thought this forum in general was one of the most vocal sandbox PvP community I have seen in a while.

There are also a few PvP games, though they don't generally do as well in the market as PvE centric games and as such tend to have content added to attract the PvE playerbase.  Maybe this will change in the future, who knows.  However for more PvP focused games to get funding it needs to be shown that the model has an attractive userbase and support given, something that has only happened in limited numbers in general (for various reasons).

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19496

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/11/13 4:41:04 PM#58
If it had an open world PVP server I'd be more inclined to play it, right now I'm still on the fence on this title.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Draxonfly

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/04
Posts: 126

Head or Gut?

4/11/13 4:46:08 PM#59
yes, Id be happy if there was no PvP at all.. .
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5565

4/11/13 4:54:42 PM#60

Yeah, I'd like the idea of the game more if it focused on a million different things before 3 faction large scale PvP. Zergy PvP, even when there are secondary objectives to complete with smaller groups, is my least favorite form of PvP. To me, Zenimax is taking my favorite IP and focusing the game around my least favorite form of PvP.

 

I think I've finally decided to just take a pass on this one until perhaps a month or two after release when I can see the community's reaction to it.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

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