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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » 'The market has spoken very loudly that [F2P] is the model they like'

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365 posts found
  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/06/13 4:27:49 PM#241
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SaltDaFries
Most of the time people will spend way more money on a F2P game over time rather than a sub game whether they are aware of it or not.

Actually the data shows that 60-90 percent of the people in the games spend nothing at all.

 

Which data? One that is supplied by by a non invested source? One that is neutral in their agenda and not here just to shill a business model that ultimately is only good for the share holder.

Links to this data please?

We've linked it for you in enough threads over the past few years that at this point you've got to be kittening. No one can participate in this many discussions about this very topic and be so unaware of the most basic and readily available information on the subject matter.

I mean, seriously, you're going on three years with this "Link please?" stuff, and we're tired of giving it to you over and over since it obviously doesn't make a difference - you're going to forget in a week anyway.

Google is your friend. Use it.

 

No, the onus is on the poster to supply the supporting links, not for me to go looking for info that supports their point.

I ask for links because I have yet to be shown any neutral non invested source that is at all convincing and, simply, most of what pro cash shop fans post is just industry shilled recieved wisdom.

How much has your opinion changed about all this after all this time though? Seeing as you have challanged me in that area... How much have you taken anything on board that's been said to you? Or do you just think it's for everyone else to adjust automatically to your way of thinking? You seem to forget whatever is said to you in far less then a week, in all honesty.

I am not gonna trawl through your post history to show how dogmatic and repetitious your posts are on this subject, because, frankly, I haven't the time to waste in that way, but I sure that anyone who has that sneaks a look would see this is a clear case of pot calling the kettle black.

Saying this though, I would prefer to not personalise this any further and just stick to the topic. I am not here to make personal criticsims of anyone or how they post, I am here to discuss games and, in this case, the revenue model situation. I suggest we draw a line under this and stick to that. If you insist on carrying on though please do it via PM? That way you can make whatever point you might want about me personally without derailing the thread any further.

It's been done dozens and dozens of times on this site.  You've been around long enough to see them.  We have provided them dozens and dozens of times.

We have done our part and more.  If by now you still don't believe them, then nothing anyone can say will change your mind.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 952

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/06/13 4:41:16 PM#242

oh goody another one of these threads.

read my sig its says what i think. this argument is getting stupid P2P is dieing, even if i dont like or agree with it.

 

 

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

 
OP  4/07/13 8:39:48 AM#243
nm - VS said it much more succinctly.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17958

4/07/13 1:07:28 PM#244
Originally posted by Squeak69

oh goody another one of these threads.

read my sig its says what i think. this argument is getting stupid P2P is dieing, even if i dont like or agree with it.

 

 

Some people are sticking their head in the sand, ignoring all evidence and data. Yeah, P2P *is* dying.

Actually it is already dead for me. I won't play a sub game anymore.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

4/09/13 5:47:44 AM#245
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by SaltDaFries
Most of the time people will spend way more money on a F2P game over time rather than a sub game whether they are aware of it or not.

Actually the data shows that 60-90 percent of the people in the games spend nothing at all.

 

Which data? One that is supplied by by a non invested source? One that is neutral in their agenda and not here just to shill a business model that ultimately is only good for the share holder.

Links to this data please?

Google is your friend. Use it.

 

No, the onus is on the poster to supply the supporting links, not for me to go looking for info that supports their point.

I ask for links because I have yet to be shown any neutral non invested source that is at all convincing and, simply, most of what pro cash shop fans post is just industry shilled recieved wisdom.

It's been done dozens and dozens of times on this site.  You've been around long enough to see them. 

 

You didn't read my reply? Because you seem to just be repeating the same thing without taking it into account.

 

Yes, I said I have seen them, and I have also said every link I have every been given has led to jaundiced, shilled, industry led garbage.

I keep asking in the hope that one day someone will come up with a credible non F2P industry led neutral source.

 

 

  Aelious

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2258

World > Quest Progression

4/09/13 9:25:19 AM#246
There won't be one lol. Unless a game is made on the cheap it does not get held up by F2P. Is F2P a good addition to get more people in the door and more attention to the game? Yes. Does a lot of the "F2P data" get muddled by a game's sub option? Yep. Of course people are going to say F2P is the future and P2P is dying. It's wishful thinking because if it's true then they will never run out of games to play, righ? Lol, right and the quality of the current titles will continue, right.... riiiight :)
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17958

4/09/13 10:56:21 AM#247
Originally posted by Aelious
There won't be one lol. Unless a game is made on the cheap it does not get held up by F2P. Is F2P a good addition to get more people in the door and more attention to the game? Yes. Does a lot of the "F2P data" get muddled by a game's sub option? Yep. Of course people are going to say F2P is the future and P2P is dying. It's wishful thinking because if it's true then they will never run out of games to play, righ? Lol, right and the quality of the current titles will continue, right.... riiiight :)

There is no evidence to either way.

But the point is this .. today .. there are plenty of F2P fun titles. The trend is going F2P .. so i expect so next year. 5 year down the road .. who knows. Anything can change.

And there is no reason not to take advantage of the F2P boom now. If it dies in a few years, who cares? I will find somethign else to do.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

4/11/13 8:00:01 AM#248
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Adalwulff

Then your out of step with todays gamers, because most of us agree that the communities in F2P games are horrible!

Not only that, other than a couple F2P games, you spend more money on F2P than a sub. Unless you want to be sub-par for weeks or months while you catch up to the players that spent money.

All the new F2P games comming out right now are using the old graphics engines, and all the old features we have seen in games for years.

I wouldn't be so sure that it's Venge who is "out of step with todays gamers," but then again I get the feeling you're working off a different dataset than Venge and the entire gaming industry is working off of.

 

"I agree, its pretty ironic...

Then when I see people try and convince me that F2P games are just as good, or even better than sub games. Its hard to debate someone who actually believes it."

 

Speaking of irony...

 

Feelings aren't facts, I know thats a popular theme these days, but no. You are not only out of step, but your not even in the same reality.

How many titles recently started with box sells, then P2P, only to turn into F2P after they turned out to be garbage? I lost count myself. If F2P means a game is just as good as the rest, then why does it always turn out that way?

I see a lot of new games comming out that are F2P from the start, many play in your browswer, and most with cash shops of course. They are NOTHING compared to sub games, especially in content, no way no how!

But you go ahead and keep deluding yourself.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

4/11/13 8:02:52 AM#249
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

F2p has been around longer than p2p, it has shown it's longevity both in individual games and in the market.

This may be a bubble we are in right now, however f2p itself is not going anywhere.

 

This is SO not true. Your not talking about mmos or any other "real" games.

Even back in the early days of MUDS you had to pay by the hour, the only free games were arcade type games on web browsers.

MIght be more accurate to say f2p MMO's have been around longer than p2p MMORPG, as Garriot in UO coined the term MMORPG.

 

UO was not free, I wonder if you even know what your talking about.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17958

4/11/13 10:28:01 AM#250
Originally posted by Adalwulff

How many titles recently started with box sells, then P2P, only to turn into F2P after they turned out to be garbage? I lost count myself. If F2P means a game is just as good as the rest, then why does it always turn out that way?

Because fewer and fewer players are willing to pay for a sub? Because there are more competition that goes F2P? Tell me, when is the big success of a sub game?

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/11/13 11:15:35 AM#251
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

F2p has been around longer than p2p, it has shown it's longevity both in individual games and in the market.

This may be a bubble we are in right now, however f2p itself is not going anywhere.

 

This is SO not true. Your not talking about mmos or any other "real" games.

Even back in the early days of MUDS you had to pay by the hour, the only free games were arcade type games on web browsers.

MIght be more accurate to say f2p MMO's have been around longer than p2p MMORPG, as Garriot in UO coined the term MMORPG.

 

UO was not free, I wonder if you even know what your talking about.

 Good thing I never stated UO was free.  In my edit I stated f2p MMO's has been around longer than MMORPG, and just as long as MMO's have.

And to your other comment at Lokto, saveral games went f2p not because they were garbage (which is completely subjective)  but because the developers believed they could make even more money with f2p than p2p.  EQ, EQ2 and LOTRO are 3.

And there are many f2p games out there with just as much content, quality, depth and cs as p2p.  And there are p2p that don't have as much content, quality, depth and cs as some f2p.  There is no difference.  You are deluding yourself.

If p2p means it's just as good as f2p, then why doesn't it always turn out that way?

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  sketocafe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 466

4/11/13 11:21:23 AM#252
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by bcbully

Sub is just fine.

 

B2P is evil. Anything with a 60$ upfront fee is evil. 

 

Free is to intrusive.

 

I agree with all this BC.

Free client, 1-2 week full access trial, then sub (with no cash shop) is my ideal.

+1

I'd prefer this as well, but I also like high production values in games, so I'm willing to pay a box fee as well for the client. 

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

4/11/13 11:27:22 AM#253
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

F2p has been around longer than p2p, it has shown it's longevity both in individual games and in the market.

This may be a bubble we are in right now, however f2p itself is not going anywhere.

 

This is SO not true. Your not talking about mmos or any other "real" games.

Even back in the early days of MUDS you had to pay by the hour, the only free games were arcade type games on web browsers.

MIght be more accurate to say f2p MMO's have been around longer than p2p MMORPG, as Garriot in UO coined the term MMORPG.

 

UO was not free, I wonder if you even know what your talking about.

 Good thing I never stated UO was free.  I stated f2p MMO's has been around longer than MMORPG, and just as long as MMO's have.

And to your other comment at Lokto, saveral games went f2p not because they were garbage (which is completely subjective)  but because the developers believed they could make even more money with f2p than p2p.  EQ, EQ2 and LOTRO are 3.

And there are many f2p games out there with just as much content, quality, depth and cs as p2p.  And there are p2p that don't have as much content, quality, depth and cs as some f2p.  There is no difference.  You are deluding yourself.

If p2p means it's just as good as f2p, then why doesn't it always turn out that way?

actually those mmos went f2p BECAUSE they were garbage and f2p was the only way the developers could continue to keep the game running because they clearly failed to make a decent enough game to warrant people spending a subscription on it.

 

they didn't go f2p simply because they thought they would make even more money with f2p, it was literally the only way to keep the game running. a p2p game going f2p is like a last resort deal. there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to this rule, but that is the norm.


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/11/13 11:34:39 AM#254
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

F2p has been around longer than p2p, it has shown it's longevity both in individual games and in the market.

This may be a bubble we are in right now, however f2p itself is not going anywhere.

 

This is SO not true. Your not talking about mmos or any other "real" games.

Even back in the early days of MUDS you had to pay by the hour, the only free games were arcade type games on web browsers.

MIght be more accurate to say f2p MMO's have been around longer than p2p MMORPG, as Garriot in UO coined the term MMORPG.

 

UO was not free, I wonder if you even know what your talking about.

 Good thing I never stated UO was free.  I stated f2p MMO's has been around longer than MMORPG, and just as long as MMO's have.

And to your other comment at Lokto, saveral games went f2p not because they were garbage (which is completely subjective)  but because the developers believed they could make even more money with f2p than p2p.  EQ, EQ2 and LOTRO are 3.

And there are many f2p games out there with just as much content, quality, depth and cs as p2p.  And there are p2p that don't have as much content, quality, depth and cs as some f2p.  There is no difference.  You are deluding yourself.

If p2p means it's just as good as f2p, then why doesn't it always turn out that way?

actually those mmos went f2p BECAUSE they were garbage and f2p was the only way the developers could continue to keep the game running because they clearly failed to make a decent enough game to warrant people spending a subscription on it.

 

they didn't go f2p simply because they thought they would make even more money with f2p, it was literally the only way to keep the game running. a p2p game going f2p is like a last resort deal. there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to this rule, but that is the norm.

 Hmm actually no.  They were quite successfull, stable population and making profit. 

Lotro went f2p because DDO did very well and they thought they could replicate this with LOTRO.

EQ2 had one free to play server as an experiment, it proved very successfull and therefore all their games went f2p. 

There was no danger at all of those 3 closing down. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

4/11/13 11:47:11 AM#255
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

F2p has been around longer than p2p, it has shown it's longevity both in individual games and in the market.

This may be a bubble we are in right now, however f2p itself is not going anywhere.

 

This is SO not true. Your not talking about mmos or any other "real" games.

Even back in the early days of MUDS you had to pay by the hour, the only free games were arcade type games on web browsers.

MIght be more accurate to say f2p MMO's have been around longer than p2p MMORPG, as Garriot in UO coined the term MMORPG.

 

UO was not free, I wonder if you even know what your talking about.

 Good thing I never stated UO was free.  I stated f2p MMO's has been around longer than MMORPG, and just as long as MMO's have.

And to your other comment at Lokto, saveral games went f2p not because they were garbage (which is completely subjective)  but because the developers believed they could make even more money with f2p than p2p.  EQ, EQ2 and LOTRO are 3.

And there are many f2p games out there with just as much content, quality, depth and cs as p2p.  And there are p2p that don't have as much content, quality, depth and cs as some f2p.  There is no difference.  You are deluding yourself.

If p2p means it's just as good as f2p, then why doesn't it always turn out that way?

actually those mmos went f2p BECAUSE they were garbage and f2p was the only way the developers could continue to keep the game running because they clearly failed to make a decent enough game to warrant people spending a subscription on it.

 

they didn't go f2p simply because they thought they would make even more money with f2p, it was literally the only way to keep the game running. a p2p game going f2p is like a last resort deal. there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to this rule, but that is the norm.

 Hmm actually no.  They were quite successfull, stable population and making profit. 

Lotro went f2p because DDO did very well and they thought they could replicate this with LOTRO.

EQ2 had one free to play server as an experiment, it proved very successfull and therefore all their games went f2p. 

There was no danger at all of those 3 closing down. 

Again, there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to the rule, but the norm is, failing games go f2p to stay afloat.

SWTOR shining example. GW2 WOULD have been another shining example had it been P2P and not B2P. But Arenanet know their shit and picked the right business model for their game instead of biting more than they can chew and went P2P with a shitty game which is what most recent P2P mmos do.

 

Another shining example, Tera. And if ESO is going P2P then it too will be yet another shining example. All these games are putting all their ships on 1 or 2 aspects of their game. Either the combat or the IP and expect that will "wow" people think thats all there is to it. lolnope.


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

4/11/13 11:47:39 AM#256
Originally posted by Sephiroso

actually those mmos went f2p BECAUSE they were garbage and f2p was the only way the developers could continue to keep the game running because they clearly failed to make a decent enough game to warrant people spending a subscription on it.

 they didn't go f2p simply because they thought they would make even more money with f2p, it was literally the only way to keep the game running. a p2p game going f2p is like a last resort deal. there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to this rule, but that is the norm.

It's actually more complex than you have portrayed.  MMOs have certain architecture restrictions that many normal shooters don't have, they have to be able to deal with a large number of players inhabiting the same space (some so-called MMOs try to cheat these restrictions - but just wind up NOT being MMOs).  To many people this lowers the quality of gameplay, simply due to the restrictions.

Next, we have the influence of the playerbase.  MMO playerbases have grown accustomed to demanding and directing development of their games.  Every MMO has at least a few thousand players willing to sit around and tell the developers what they are doing wrong and how to fix it.  Often, these vocal minorities are the very people that the developers should listen to the least.  The ultimate point, however, is that MMOs decline in quality due to player "blackmailing" - "if you don't change this, I'll QUIT!!!"

Lastly, we have the grinding issue.  Gold farmers, insecure addicts, griefers, you name it.  MMOs have the worst playerbases of just about any online game, at least from my perspective.  What you blame on development is actually mostly attributable to disfunctional playerbases.  Most games have people playing whose goals and gameplay preferences are at least somewhat aligned.  MMOs have people that are in complete opposition to each other in life philosophy, not just gameplay motives.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I think people may miss the point of "Free-to-Play."  F2P is not free, as even the EA exec was able to discern.  It's merely a business model in which they can extract excess money from the most insecure and non-gamer-like players.  They have taken the third-party gold farming market under their wing.  It worked in the past because the grinders didn't catch on that their games were taxing their insecurity.

That is changing, and F2P is really no more viable than other marketing strategies if you have a decent product that won't get corrupted by online evils.

 

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/11/13 11:53:07 AM#257
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Hmm actually no.  They were quite successfull, stable population and making profit. 

Lotro went f2p because DDO did very well and they thought they could replicate this with LOTRO.

EQ2 had one free to play server as an experiment, it proved very successfull and therefore all their games went f2p. 

There was no danger at all of those 3 closing down. 

Again, there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to the rule, but the norm is, failing games go f2p to stay afloat.

SWTOR shining example. GW2 WOULD have been another shining example had it been P2P and not B2P. But Arenanet know their shit and picked the right business model for their game instead of biting more than they can chew and went P2P with a shitty game which is what most recent P2P mmos do.

 

Another shining example, Tera. And if ESO is going P2P then it too will be yet another shining example. All these games are putting all their ships on 1 or 2 aspects of their game. Either the combat or the IP and expect that will "wow" people think thats all there is to it. lolnope.

 I would say it's starting to turn the other way around now.  Swtor is a shining example of what you propose.  Possibly TSW also, I don't think it was a bad game, or had very many problems, it just didn't appeal to a lot of people.

What you stated about GW2 is just supposition.

I would say there is more and more evidence of games that are stable going f2p to make more money and the days of it changing to survive is becoming less and less.

CoH is another one, stable population went f2p.  Possibly not enough money for them to want to save it, but it was stable and reportedly in the black. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

4/11/13 11:57:23 AM#258
Originally posted by Raithe-Nor
Originally posted by Sephiroso

actually those mmos went f2p BECAUSE they were garbage and f2p was the only way the developers could continue to keep the game running because they clearly failed to make a decent enough game to warrant people spending a subscription on it.

 they didn't go f2p simply because they thought they would make even more money with f2p, it was literally the only way to keep the game running. a p2p game going f2p is like a last resort deal. there may be 1 or 2 exceptions to this rule, but that is the norm.

It's actually more complex than you have portrayed.  MMOs have certain architecture restrictions that many normal shooters don't have, they have to be able to deal with a large number of players inhabiting the same space (some so-called MMOs try to cheat these restrictions - but just wind up NOT being MMOs).  To many people this lowers the quality of gameplay, simply due to the restrictions.

Next, we have the influence of the playerbase.  MMO playerbases have grown accustomed to demanding and directing development of their games.  Every MMO has at least a few thousand players willing to sit around and tell the developers what they are doing wrong and how to fix it.  Often, these vocal minorities are the very people that the developers should listen to the least.  The ultimate point, however, is that MMOs decline in quality due to player "blackmailing" - "if you don't change this, I'll QUIT!!!"

Lastly, we have the grinding issue.  Gold farmers, insecure addicts, griefers, you name it.  MMOs have the worst playerbases of just about any online game, at least from my perspective.  What you blame on development is actually mostly attributable to disfunctional playerbases.  Most games have people playing whose goals and gameplay preferences are at least somewhat aligned.  MMOs have people that are in complete opposition to each other in life philosophy, not just gameplay motives.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I think people may miss the point of "Free-to-Play."  F2P is not free, as even the EA exec was able to discern.  It's merely a business model in which they can extract excess money from the most insecure and non-gamer-like players.  They have taken the third-party gold farming market under their wing.  It worked in the past because the grinders didn't catch on that their games were taxing their insecurity.

That is changing, and F2P is really no more viable than other marketing strategies if you have a decent product that won't get corrupted by online evils.

 

I think i get the gist of what you're saying and for the most part i agree with you. Especially with the part where you say F2P is really just another business model and you're right, its not any more viable than the other models if you have a decent game, but therein lies my point.

 

If we could just get a decent game, P2P is the best in terms of making the developers their money. The problem is the devs. I'm not saying its ONLY their fault cause i understand they're under pressure from investors and what not, but still, they're the ones that make the games, so they're the ones who take the brunt of the blame.

 

The problem with most modern mmos coming out is like i said. They focus on 1 or 2 aspects of their game with the brunt of their workforce, but every single other aspect of the game suffers which is what causes people to start leaving in mass and thus starts the process of shifting into f2p. The only game that i saw that did not do this is GW2. GW2 is a polished piece of art. It fell short and you see alot of people giving it alot of flack because its boring once you get to 80 as you don't have much to do that you haven't already done aside from grind, grind, or pvp.

 

But as a whole, you can tell GW2 did not leave anything lacking. The combat is good, the skill system is good(i know there's still bugs), gear design is good(could be more), the world is amazing, lots of mob diversity, the events had alot of work put into them. In Tera, only thing you can say about it is that its beautiful, and the combat is good. Thats it. I'd be surprised if Tera had more than 30 mob types in the game. Thats how much they reuse models. And the crafting is one of the most worthless crafting systems i've had the displeasure of using.


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  Xoshua

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 126

Fix.It

4/11/13 12:15:21 PM#259

The f2p model sucks.  F2p is only good for asian microtransaction games that don't give actual value to players other than the casual player.  Maybe we need to divide mmorpg's into two categories.  Microtransaction mmo wannabes and real mmos with p2p.  Don't be cheap, get a job, pay the 12-16 a month and play the game the way you want to.  I think the kids are the ones complaining about p2p because their parents won't pay it for them and they're too lazy to get a job. 

 

I'd rather play an MMO with 18+ players than kids who can't even afford the game themselves.  We need more P2p games with devs that work on new content like they use to.  DAoC, FFXI, EQ, these are perfect examples of P2P games that offered players value.  It wasn't meant for the casual players because quite frankly, MMO's aren't meant for casual players.  MMO's are meant for players wanting an experience, they can spend hours apon hours playing like gamer geeks not some douche bag who comes on for an hour to say hi and leaves.  This is what is destroying the MMO genre, it's casual players and the devs that are catouring to the casual players.  Go play LoL or some casual game, stay away from MMO's, it's for the big boys who want to game.

Time to fix this genre.

  Raithe-Nor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 322

4/11/13 1:01:24 PM#260
Originally posted by Sephiroso

The problem with most modern mmos coming out is like i said. They focus on 1 or 2 aspects of their game with the brunt of their workforce, but every single other aspect of the game suffers which is what causes people to start leaving in mass

No, that's not what causes people to leave in mass.  That was my point about disfunctional playerbases - they are the cause of mass exodii.  I am currently playing GW2, and there is VERY little difference from my GW2 experience and say... Warhammer Online.  The chief differences is that PvP is structured differently (Warhammer Online was much more free-form and depended on the imagination of the playerbase, which was its best and worst feature in one) and paying for Warhammer Online was done over an extended period of time - though I'll probably end up spending similar amounts on both.  GW2 is extremely buggy, and most of the features that I observe being touted are actually just work-arounds for having freakishly bad communities.

Don't get me wrong - I think the GW2 developers did an amazing job of packaging three entirely different games (PvP, Open World PvP (WvW), and PvE) and selling them in a single package with multiple pricing mechanisms.  I'm just afraid that their efforts were entirely in vain, because they ultimately conformed to a variety of failed MMO models.  They probably should have just stuck to the mold of their first game, I think they will find that longterm success was better focused there.

F2P market failure is a rather complex and interesting phenomenon itself.  A simplified description would go something like this:  grinders who spend way too much money on the game become disenfranchised and leave, the developers make it harder to play the game without purchasing RMT ammenities, then truly free players start to leave for better game structures.  The people left playing are mostly the worst of the worst, and fresh blood entering the game trickles to a halt.  The game dies.

Many online games are now over two decades old.  MMOs, which should have some of the BEST longevity of the entire online gaming scene actually have the worst.  F2P hasn't changed that in the least - it's mostly a non-issue that is being used as a smoke screen for keeping people like you from seeing what is actually going on.

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