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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Will this game be as good as WoW (vanilla)? ie the game that brought the demise of DAoC

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63 posts found
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  4/08/13 9:58:00 PM#41
Originally posted by Foggye
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Xobdnas

I hate instances. I like some pve, but instances killed this genre by taking meaningful gameplay from the world, scripting it, and forcing us to repeat it like hamsters.

Indeed.  MJ poped in to say no instances, BUT .. Is no instances in the CU manifesto?  Seems like it should be..

 

I could guess that it is not mentioned so it would not be legally bindable with kickstarter.  If it were mentioned then no instances must go in ... but no mention leaves more for blog promises and afterthoughts? :P

 

From Founding Prinicple #2

 

"Okay, I lied. How about another question? What if we don’t want to RvR that day but still want to have fun in the game?” Well, that is where housing, crafting and other systems will come into play. As a RvR-focused game, players will need all sorts of items and the crafters will have to supply them. Whether it is arrows, armor, gold for the mint, etc., there’s always going to be somebody who needs something and that’s where crafting comes in. And if you don’t feel like crafting, well, the housing/buildings system are waiting for you. And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR (in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye) if you get unlucky. And if that is not enough, well, we will have some other things that you can do but we are an RvR-focused game and if you are not feeling it that night and nothing we have interests you, well, it’s time to take a break, just like any other game. I cannot promise you that CU will meet all your needs for an MMO. It cannot be all things to all people but it can be a great RvR-focused game with your help, feedback, support and involvement. If on some nights it isn’t what you are looking for, well, that’s okay, your realm’s enemies will be still waiting for you when you get back.

If you looking for a game that captures the spirit, challenge and excitement of RvR, you have come to the right place. Oh, did I forget to mention territorial control, RvR leaderboards, extremely limited “normal” instances (special events, special unlocks, etc.) and most importantly, getting to know and hate your enemies with a passion and being rewarded for doing so? And no Virginia, cross-realm characters on a server is a no-no and of course, we will have multiple servers but there is a Santa Claus N.O.ME., at least in March on Oz. :)

 

-- Day to day combat will be uninstanced.   Just left the door open for special events, or perhaps dungeons like DF.  Take it as you will.

Thats not a manifesto.

 

"And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR (in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye) if you get unlucky."

 

Actually it doesn't make much sense if you read the sentence without the ()'s ... or if you ponder the k thx bye comment.  It's nonsense.

 

Without the parenthesis it reads:

"And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR if you get unlucky."

 

The parenthesis read:

(in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye)

 

This is just some blog entry, not legally binding to kickstarter.  Blogs are not binding and can be changed.  So basically there is no mention that the game won't be instanced (tied to kickstarter promises)?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3739

RIP City of Heroes!

4/09/13 12:32:09 AM#42
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by dynamicipftw

1) WoW didn't kill DAoC. ToA and NF killed DAoC.

 

2) TM vs SS (just like GW2 WvW) was fun for about a week or two. People got bored of it though as there was no progression, just back and forth mindless zerging. WoW having good PvP is a ridiculous statement and can only be taken as trolling.

(1)  Misinformation.  Mark Jacobs even invalidates your assertion.

 

(2) You only validate claims about DAoC stinking.  Some were worse than others.  And some were a WoWification.  Get over that.

 So if Joe Blow feels that TOA ruined DOAC somehow MJ can override that?  Odd.

That was nothing which I actually said.

 I was replying to your 1.  DERP.

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

4/09/13 12:35:51 AM#43
If only current WoW could bring down Vanilla WoW lol.
  poma

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 6

4/09/13 2:48:39 AM#44

Just for the record DAOC was killed by Mythic due to TOA.

The fact that WOW came out as well just rubbed salt into the wound.

 

  Achelon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/13
Posts: 3

4/09/13 3:03:10 AM#45

I had to register to this site just to say this because comparing WoW to this... omg:

WoW had the "new" factor in it. Thats why people played it. It didnt offer anything in end-game.That plus the fact that ToA alienated the gamers was enough to make it go downhill. Really, WoW was a huge dissappointment to me. Ive played a lot of MMO games afterwards but been let down for the lack of true endgame. I play LoL now because it is endgame and its very challenging. I play skyrim for great adventures when im SOLO I dont want multiplayer games giving me storylines and then leaving me to run the same instances over and over again. WoW vanilla endgame was just really bad instances, griefing noobs etc. LoL or any other Dota-copy is way better in "instance" -type gameplay + its much much more challenging.

EVE Online is one of the best games ive played after DAoC, but playing it demands very very much out of you and your time for it to be rewarding (controlling market, 0.0 area controlling, guard duties .. GATE CAMPIINGGG) now what im hearing is I could get RvR like it should be, 3 realms, a great community(why? because they are not all 10-years old), market/crafting system to be a bit like EVE(ok not as complicated, but sandy? :D at least from what ive read there will be sand, meaby not in a box but somewhere?)  and it all happening in the way I like, with blood and steel ;)

All in all, I dont feel Camelot Unchained to be  "good" as WoW vanilla which I, and a lot of ex-daoc players, left after a few months. I hope its nothing like WoW at all. I hope it will be even better than what DAoC / SI was. I feel confident from reading the foundation principles that it will be the game I have been waiting for years.

I dont feel the lack of PVE being bad, there will be NPC's and from what ive read im pretty sure thats where a lot of our crafting materials are being generated. So when im gathering resources I might get attacked.. ok I can live with that, i've played EVE. If I want to hang out with friends, we can go to a keep and meaby create sieging equipment / repair or create new defences for it etc. Why was DAoC so good back then? the community was really good, people talked with each other. There was time to bond in keep defences/sieges etc. In DAoC the keeps mattered, the relic raids had been planned for weeks if not months(we were a small realm). When you lost you saw it, the way back was long and if you had been defending a keep you could see it. This sense of pride and the feeling of a true community was better than anything ive experienced after.

 

Yours,

Achelon of Furn

Enduring Effervescients / Hibernia / Prydwen / EU

  Troianman

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/13
Posts: 83

4/09/13 4:13:46 AM#46
Originally posted by Achelon

EVE Online is one of the best games ive played after DAoC, but playing it demands very very much out of you and your time for it to be rewarding (controlling market, 0.0 area controlling, guard duties .. GATE CAMPIINGGG) now what im hearing is I could get RvR like it should be, 3 realms, a great community(why? because they are not all 10-years old), market/crafting system to be a bit like EVE(ok not as complicated, but sandy? :D at least from what ive read there will be sand, meaby not in a box but somewhere?)  and it all happening in the way I like, with blood and steel ;)

EVE will always have a special place in my heart but dear god. Finding out you let your training queue empty makes you feel like the last X # of hours/days have been wasted and that you are now suddenly losing some sort of war. Almost nothing I have found in any full PvP game (Shadowbane, Darkfall and Mortal Online included) compares to the experience of 0.0 or wormhole space. But gate camping was either ridiculous fun when you did it to pick a large fight or a gut wrenching feeling when you loaded into someone's bubble piloting your favorite ship only to be podded after a prolonged negotiation that was never a negotiation at all. I doubt any economic system will be anywhere near as in depth as EVE's is for quite awhile and that includes the many types of crafting and economy based skills available.

That being said, I will still always hope for one.

  nf4mous

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/13
Posts: 55

4/09/13 5:52:56 AM#47
Originally posted by Karteli

 

When WoW came out, DAoC tanked .. because of WoW.  Thats not my words, thats from Mark Jacobs.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5659079#5659079

 

 

that's not really true, at least not the way you're presenting it.

DAOC tanked because of the introduction of forced PvE ( trials of atlantis).  WoW was merely the excuse to finally leave after the root of DAOC changed so much due to that PvE.

 

edit:  essentially, the DAOC playerbase moved away to show Mythic just how displeased they were for that forced PvE.  and no, WoW wasn't worth staying for either, as that DAOC playerbase moved on from WoW long ago.

 

Marc has acknowledged old frontiers was the best time most of us DAOCers had = large, open world where roaming, keep fighting, and 500+ player relic raids made the game.

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1919

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

4/09/13 5:59:16 AM#48

basically wow got it'S attention because "BLIZZARD" was written all over it :)

 

this time it will say "mark jacobs!", might work :)

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Sornin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/28/07
Posts: 1138

Too weird to live, and too rare to die

4/09/13 6:12:48 AM#49
Originally posted by Thane

basically wow got it'S attention because "BLIZZARD" was written all over it :)

 

this time it will say "mark jacobs!", might work :)

To be fair, I think WoW gots its attention because it was and probably still is a great MMORPG - I can admit it if others cannot. Blizzard's name may have helped, but people stayed for the game, not the company.

I have not played it in years, but I am not about to turn around a jump on the hate train, either. It had high production values and was entertaining, and I sunk a few years into it. 9M, 10M, 11M, or whatever it is players still think it is entertaining.

  Hjamnr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/29/13
Posts: 174

4/09/13 9:26:21 AM#50
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Foggye
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Xobdnas

I hate instances. I like some pve, but instances killed this genre by taking meaningful gameplay from the world, scripting it, and forcing us to repeat it like hamsters.

Indeed.  MJ poped in to say no instances, BUT .. Is no instances in the CU manifesto?  Seems like it should be..

 

I could guess that it is not mentioned so it would not be legally bindable with kickstarter.  If it were mentioned then no instances must go in ... but no mention leaves more for blog promises and afterthoughts? :P

 

From Founding Prinicple #2

 

"Okay, I lied. How about another question? What if we don’t want to RvR that day but still want to have fun in the game?” Well, that is where housing, crafting and other systems will come into play. As a RvR-focused game, players will need all sorts of items and the crafters will have to supply them. Whether it is arrows, armor, gold for the mint, etc., there’s always going to be somebody who needs something and that’s where crafting comes in. And if you don’t feel like crafting, well, the housing/buildings system are waiting for you. And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR (in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye) if you get unlucky. And if that is not enough, well, we will have some other things that you can do but we are an RvR-focused game and if you are not feeling it that night and nothing we have interests you, well, it’s time to take a break, just like any other game. I cannot promise you that CU will meet all your needs for an MMO. It cannot be all things to all people but it can be a great RvR-focused game with your help, feedback, support and involvement. If on some nights it isn’t what you are looking for, well, that’s okay, your realm’s enemies will be still waiting for you when you get back.

If you looking for a game that captures the spirit, challenge and excitement of RvR, you have come to the right place. Oh, did I forget to mention territorial control, RvR leaderboards, extremely limited “normal” instances (special events, special unlocks, etc.) and most importantly, getting to know and hate your enemies with a passion and being rewarded for doing so? And no Virginia, cross-realm characters on a server is a no-no and of course, we will have multiple servers but there is a Santa Claus N.O.ME., at least in March on Oz. :)

 

-- Day to day combat will be uninstanced.   Just left the door open for special events, or perhaps dungeons like DF.  Take it as you will.

Thats not a manifesto.

 

"And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR (in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye) if you get unlucky."

 

Actually it doesn't make much sense if you read the sentence without the ()'s ... or if you ponder the k thx bye comment.  It's nonsense.

 

Without the parenthesis it reads:

"And if that isn’t enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won’t involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR if you get unlucky."

 

The parenthesis read:

(in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye)

 

This is just some blog entry, not legally binding to kickstarter.  Blogs are not binding and can be changed.  So basically there is no mention that the game won't be instanced (tied to kickstarter promises)?

<div asset"="" data-edit_url="/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/assets/475390/edit" data-id="475390" contenteditable="false">

Mark believes that every great game starts with a great foundation. The Foundational Principles he and Andrew have been laying out are more than simple ideas; they are the bedrock for Camelot Unchained. Over the next 30 days, we will tell you even more through updates and additional Foundational Principles. We think it's important that you understand fully what kind of game we want to create before you decide to back it.

The current list of principles can be found on our website (www.camelotunchained.com)

 

That's from the kickstarter page:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained 

It's linked off of it as a reference, thus is part of the KS proposal.

 

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  4/10/13 12:18:21 AM#51
Originally posted by Thane

basically wow got it'S attention because "BLIZZARD" was written all over it :)

 

this time it will say "mark jacobs!", might work :)

Too soon to tell, but maybe =D

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  User Deleted
4/10/13 12:23:20 AM#52
DAoC killed DAoC, nothing else.
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  4/10/13 1:13:31 AM#53
Originally posted by topographic
DAoC killed DAoC, nothing else.

MJ even says WoW killed* DAoC.

 

It's more likely that DAoC experienced a wowification that players didn't like?  like with stealthies and stuff?

 

*killed meaning ending upward trends

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  nf4mous

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/13
Posts: 55

4/10/13 1:20:05 AM#54
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by topographic
DAoC killed DAoC, nothing else.

MJ even says WoW killed* DAoC.

 

It's more likely that DAoC experienced a wowification that players didn't like?  like with stealthies and stuff?

 

*killed meaning ending upward trends

MJ also said that ToA pissed off his entire DAOC population.

 

many people here have already clarified for you that the ToA expansion was the last straw that broke the camel's back.  WoW was merely the new ride.

 

edit: and most would agree the core population of DAOC would've remained if they weren't so angry at that forced PvE expansion.   so, based on this common knowledge/logic, WoW itself didn't kill DAOC.

 

also, i don't know a single person in 4+ years of enjoying RvR combat who would've prefered PvE to RvR.   once you made it to 50, you hardly stepped foot into the PvE zones unless you wanted to farm during downtime or acquire aesthetic drops.  RvR only in CU isn't an issue at all.  Don't see a problem, or why you're trying to make one.

  User Deleted
4/10/13 3:47:34 PM#55
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by topographic
DAoC killed DAoC, nothing else.

MJ even says WoW killed* DAoC.

 

It's more likely that DAoC experienced a wowification that players didn't like?  like with stealthies and stuff?

 

*killed meaning ending upward trends

Oh, MJ said it so it must be true. 

I think Mr Jacobs is more a purveyor of spin than fact.

  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

4/10/13 3:52:17 PM#56

Most of the people I played WoW with had never played an MMO before and everyone was loving the shit out of Tarren Mill while I personally felt like I was participating in some form of paralympic hand-ball match at which point I asked my self wheter my friends were retarded or something. No incentive what-so-ever, just back and forth zerging.

DAoC remains the king of PvP, if Camelot Unchained can live up to that then I'm all for it. Camelot Unchained will be PvP and crafting only for the record.

  will75

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/06
Posts: 275

4/10/13 3:54:40 PM#57
This should be locked, i mean mark already said no instances...even in this thread lol
  Tasaroca

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 16

4/10/13 5:24:53 PM#58
Originally posted by Achelon

. Why was DAoC so good back then? the community was really good, people talked with each other. There was time to bond in keep defences/sieges etc. In DAoC the keeps mattered, the relic raids had been planned for weeks if not months(we were a small realm). When you lost you saw it, the way back was long and if you had been defending a keep you could see it. This sense of pride and the feeling of a true community was better than anything ive experienced after.

 

Yours,

Achelon of Furn

Enduring Effervescients / Hibernia / Prydwen / EU

yes you where small but damit you where still annoying as hell :-D

always poping up disturbing us when all we where doing is trying to open this walking tin can

how the hell do i hit  a dam luri thats smaller than the head of my hammer  odin dam you

tee hee :-p

 

oh guys sorry for disturbing te trolly ranting about wow but i dont see many peeps from my old surver  so i had to say hi even if it is a bleedin hibby :-p

Tasaroca Troll ( I am not a buff bot damit) Shamy

Midgaurd /Prydwen / EU

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2041

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/11/13 11:26:27 AM#59
At least on my server Soutshore vs Tarren Mill was the worst PvP I've seen in an MMO. Despite there not really being that many players, the server just had no chance of handling it and the delay on activating abilities was so long the game was unplayable. Not just for the PvPers, mind, but for everyone in the area. There only way out really was the instanced PvP.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  Styles755

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/12
Posts: 14

4/11/13 11:32:44 AM#60
Originally posted by Karteli

Sure, PVP in EQ and DAoC was fun, often times aggrevating, but my best experience ever for PVP was WoW Vanilla.

 

The setting just captured the moment, with Taren Mill vs. Southshore.  Nothing was instanced with PVP and the reward was defending a town, making friends, and having a blast in the process.

 

CU will be different in that it is going back to DAoC mentality with RvR, which was interesting, but not all that great in my mind.  GW2 was a mess with RvR .. ESO isn't looking much better.  I guess CU is going to be instanced with its fights?  Without PVE (as described) the world will be small for each realm?  Without PVE, CU sounds more like a MOBA.

 

When WoW came out, DAoC tanked .. because of WoW.  Thats not my words, thats from Mark Jacobs.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5659079#5659079

 

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

You give me too much credit. I listened to the guy who told me "Mark, I promise you ToA will not affect RvR, you have my word on that." and I've been paying for that ever since. :(

OTOH, you are right about the lack of advertisement but really, what killed it was WoW. SI sent our numbers up and it held, ToA sent our numbers up (less than SI and the bump didn't last as long) but it was a slow decline until WoW and then we lost 30% of our subs 3 months post WoW-launch. That was one of the main reasons we went with NF. We knew what was coming and we tried to come up with something different to excite the player base.

 

So, can Camelot Unchained actually out-do the game that killed it's predecessor, DAoC?

 

DAoC subscriber cap was 250k in 2004, before it fell.  WoW released in 2004, not to beat a dead horse.

Hey listen just to let you know, Wow didn't kill off DOAC....all the insane unbalanced expansion packs did. Also I thought it was a mistake for Mythic to not work on a game like CU instead of  developing Warhammer (Horrible). They should of been working on CU back then. I played DAOC from 2000-2005, after the expansions were out for awhile the population slowly decreased because of unbalance issues and just well bad changes really, people including myself wanted the old frontiers back. Mythic merged servers over and over again to compsensate. We knew it was slowly dying off, less and less players over time. I don't remember anyone mentioning Wow in game or the forums.

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