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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why is 'instanced' a modern development?

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144 posts found
  Sk1ppeR

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/12
Posts: 534

4/10/13 3:37:35 AM#61

I suppose none of you played Lineage 2 before Hellbound expansion xD 

No wonder WoW was such a success

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

4/10/13 3:42:12 AM#62

I do not like instancing of any kind. I miss open worlds, open dungeons, and open PvP dungeons. MMORPGs should not have instances and are not designed for casual gamers. Never was intended to be for casuals but we got what we got today and not a game in years has actually been a MMORPG and the ones that do come out never even get listed on this site.

My question is why today I can't play the asian version of games and I am stuck playing dumbed down N/A version of games? The one game I probably won't play on N/A release is ArchAge even though it is a awesome game as it stands in Asia.

  TheKraut

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/11
Posts: 47

4/10/13 4:52:04 AM#63

Epitomy of lazy development.

Doing them as a side progession thing is fine, as EQ did with LDoN for people that didn't have time that night to raid or just wanted a quick group. It had its own rewards that could augment your regular gear, yet it didn't create a bottleneck of the same instanced dungeon 'everyone' needed for their level 20 gear/quest/whatever that games do now.

The way instancing is now caters to the lowest common denominator player that does the exact same instance over and over, to get the exact same gear as everyone else to progress in the exact same manner everyone else is, or will be doing. It's the everyone gets the same trophy mentality and its sheer laziness and a lack of insightfulness.

It's sadening that a game from 10+ years ago figured out how to stage a world for an MMO, and the way games have gone since then couldn't have strayed more off coarse if you had done it on purpose.

  bingbongbros

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 586

4/10/13 5:05:29 AM#64
Originally posted by yangdude* *snip* Does anyone out there actually like it - and if so why?  Is instancing a result of developers trying to cramb so much into each small area that it cant be done in an open world format? 

Instancing is something I can't stand, but I can see why it was developed.  The first instances I ever saw was in Everquest 1, with the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion.  And it had a pretty significant impact on the game and the world.

 

It literally made most of the zones people would hunt/camp in ghost towns because they could just take the group through these instances over and over and gain better exp and get actual gear/rewards from the adventure league guys who gave the quests.

 

I hated this invention because of that.  I liked traveling the world, going to different zones on different continents for the adventure of fighting new mobs with a group in new lands.  And these LDoN instances completely destroyed all of that.  Now we were just grinding the same instanced dungeons over and over and over till kingdom come.

 

Then WoW followed the same method EQ1 developed and it just got worse and worse with each game afterwards till we are at where we are now.  But I can see why they did it, no more camps in open dungeons with people waiting in line or aruging who got there first, or training the crap out of each other to clear the groups out. 

 

No more kill stealing, ninjaing, over crowding, etc.  All gone with nice little neat instanced copies.  Easy to manage and much easier for gamers to mindlessly grind.  But the sad side effect was the death of the actual living world and the eb and flow of community all moving and shaking through the same stomping grounds.

 

I still have hope in my jaded heart that someday mmo's will move away from instances and reembrace the original fantastic ability to hunt and play in the same open world together.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/10/13 10:32:41 AM#65
Originally posted by Ramones274

He wasn't saying instancing is new. He was saying, why does modern development seem to lean towards this ideology, which should be pretty much dated at this point. Instancing should be a thing of the past.

It's not an ideology, it's a mechanic that can serve a range of purposes from technical to narrative.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

4/10/13 10:39:22 AM#66
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Ramones274

He wasn't saying instancing is new. He was saying, why does modern development seem to lean towards this ideology, which should be pretty much dated at this point. Instancing should be a thing of the past.

It's not an ideology, it's a mechanic that can serve a range of purposes from technical to narrative.

Plus, it works.

Shooting was there as a mechanics since the dawn of video games .. you don't see it going anywhere.

Good ideas stick around.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1790

4/10/13 10:39:22 AM#67
Originally posted by Loktofeit

It's not an ideology, it's a mechanic that can serve a range of purposes from technical to narrative.

This.

Instancing allows zones to consume more resources, sometimes these resources help make the game play smoother, sometimes they are directed at better graphics or resolving more players on a screen at a given time. List goes on.

So many people in this thread act like instancing is all about taking their fun away when it's just a tool that developers use so that they can introduce other things that they might not have otherwise been able to.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1437

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/10/13 11:16:47 AM#68


Originally posted by yangdude
I've played PWI (yes that old outdated etc game) for some time now and assumed that the open world style was the norm. Then having jumped on the GW2 bandwagon I was very confused by the gameplay style.

So this is 'instanced' where you have a small area to quest in, then (at least back when it started) you wait in line to get into the next area? I must admit I was baffled. I dont have a lot of MMO experience and suddenly this super new game seems like a whole bunch of small games linked together by portals.

How is it that this is even accepted by the gaming community. Like seriously, am I the only one that thinks the 'instanced' style of GW2 really sucks - I mean REALLY. I was extremely disappointed to say the least and it actually made me feel claustrophobic playing GW2.

(as a sideline I didnt play GW2 for long because my computer wont play it for pvp but thats my problem)

I guess I'm interested to hear others opinions on 'instancing'. Does anyone out there actually like it - and if so why? Is instancing a result of developers trying to cramb so much into each small area that it cant be done in an open world format?


Instanced games are much much cheaper to create. Millions of players have accepted it, and millions have not. Add my name to the latter.


That said, I enjoyed LDON quite a bit. But that was some instanced content in a massive, non-instanced world. Nowadays everything is instanced. NO longer do you open a door and go into a building; you, instead click on a door and teleport into an instance of the building. Cheaper development.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

4/10/13 11:31:58 AM#69
Originally posted by Arclan


 

 

Instanced games are much much cheaper to create. Millions of players have accepted it, and millions have not. Add my name to the latter.


That said, I enjoyed LDON quite a bit. But that was some instanced content in a massive, non-instanced world. Nowadays everything is instanced. NO longer do you open a door and go into a building; you, instead click on a door and teleport into an instance of the building. Cheaper development.

Cheaper development.

Easier to control the experience .. for example, add a difficulty option.

Can script events to change the "world" within the instances ... good for story telling, and multi-stage quests.

Lots of advantages. no wonder it is so popular.

  User Deleted
4/10/13 11:36:13 AM#70

next gen instancing.

public world area  : Forest of the green Acid Blob

channel 1 for players item lvl 10-20

channel 2 for players iLevel 21-30

etc..

it wont be only matchmaking at PvP anymore,it will be matchmaking everywhere.

no more "there was that XXxsuperkillerxXX camping my mobs or gathering my resources faster than light etc.

no no no,nice plastic world lies ahead.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

4/10/13 11:40:44 AM#71
Originally posted by ForumPvP

next gen instancing.

public world area  : Forest of the green Acid Blob

channel 1 for players item lvl 10-20

channel 2 for players iLevel 21-30

etc..

it wont be only matchmaking at PvP anymore,it will be matchmaking everywhere.

no more "there was that XXxsuperkillerxXX camping my mobs or gathering my resources faster than light etc.

no no no,nice plastic world lies ahead.

 

Yeah the use of channel for seamless matching will be great.

I think Destiny (they call it share world shooter) will be using something like that.

  User Deleted
4/10/13 11:45:28 AM#72
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ForumPvP

next gen instancing.

public world area  : Forest of the green Acid Blob

channel 1 for players item lvl 10-20

channel 2 for players iLevel 21-30

etc..

it wont be only matchmaking at PvP anymore,it will be matchmaking everywhere.

no more "there was that XXxsuperkillerxXX camping my mobs or gathering my resources faster than light etc.

no no no,nice plastic world lies ahead.

 

Yeah the use of channel for seamless matching will be great.

I think Destiny (they call it share world shooter) will be using something like that.

Yes there is obviously a huge market for that kind of ideas,no doubt about that.

 

 

  Dahkoht

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 289

4/10/13 11:51:29 AM#73
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Arclan


 

 

Instanced games are much much cheaper to create. Millions of players have accepted it, and millions have not. Add my name to the latter.


That said, I enjoyed LDON quite a bit. But that was some instanced content in a massive, non-instanced world. Nowadays everything is instanced. NO longer do you open a door and go into a building; you, instead click on a door and teleport into an instance of the building. Cheaper development.

Cheaper development.

Easier to control the experience .. for example, add a difficulty option.

Can script events to change the "world" within the instances ... good for story telling, and multi-stage quests.

Lots of advantages. no wonder it is so popular.

I have not problem with some games going this route.

But there's obviously a population of folks like myself , who don't care a white about "story" , or private instances , and would very much like an open world , non instanced anything setting.

Whether we will get it or not , I'm at least glad to see some developers seeing that "story" and voice acting , isnt everything its cracked up to be in a mmorpg.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

4/10/13 12:00:34 PM#74

For all the good instancing can do, it has done one thing to my MMO experience which I find unforgivable: breaking immersion. As soon as I'm in a copy of a world/dungeon, the experience deteriorates because of the lack of a persistant, singular world.

I would have to guess this doesn't bother other people as much as it bothers me because I find it very disruptive to gameplay.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20173

4/10/13 12:11:00 PM#75
Originally posted by NaughtyP

For all the good instancing can do, it has done one thing to my MMO experience which I find unforgivable: breaking immersion. As soon as I'm in a copy of a world/dungeon, the experience deteriorates because of the lack of a persistant, singular world.

I would have to guess this doesn't bother other people as much as it bothers me because I find it very disruptive to gameplay.

Obvious it does not bother people. In fact, this "immerision" is not important to me at all. It is not like i don't know i am playing a game. When i play other games (like SP or even online games), it is not like i don't know there are millions others doing the same.

Fun is much more important. Given the popularity of LoL, WoT, D3 (all instanced) ... i bet it is not a huge issues for most gamers.

BTW, i think it is the opoosite. Instanced is much LESS disruptive to gameplay. You go in there, and you are not disrupted by the need to travel, or talk to people .. and you can focus on adventure and combat.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6122

4/10/13 12:34:09 PM#76
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Benedikt
actually no - gw2 (and aoc) "instancing" is a protection against "empty zones" which do happen a lot in most of other mmorpgs when most of the players are already max level - have to say i was not bothered by it in gw2 at all (well mostly at all, i could have live w/o a time it took to transit from overflow to normal zone)

 

Also, instancing has been around for over a decade now. 

I wonder what your opinion on Instancing is Loktofeit....

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/10/13 12:36:46 PM#77
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Benedikt
actually no - gw2 (and aoc) "instancing" is a protection against "empty zones" which do happen a lot in most of other mmorpgs when most of the players are already max level - have to say i was not bothered by it in gw2 at all (well mostly at all, i could have live w/o a time it took to transit from overflow to normal zone)

 

Also, instancing has been around for over a decade now. 

I wonder what your opinion on Instancing is Loktofeit....

IMO, it's a tool like any other. Can be used poorly and can be used to really enhance game features or gameplay experience.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Dahkoht

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/13
Posts: 289

4/10/13 12:41:31 PM#78
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NaughtyP

For all the good instancing can do, it has done one thing to my MMO experience which I find unforgivable: breaking immersion. As soon as I'm in a copy of a world/dungeon, the experience deteriorates because of the lack of a persistant, singular world.

I would have to guess this doesn't bother other people as much as it bothers me because I find it very disruptive to gameplay.

Obvious it does not bother people. In fact, this "immerision" is not important to me at all. It is not like i don't know i am playing a game. When i play other games (like SP or even online games), it is not like i don't know there are millions others doing the same.

Fun is much more important. Given the popularity of LoL, WoT, D3 (all instanced) ... i bet it is not a huge issues for most gamers.

BTW, i think it is the opoosite. Instanced is much LESS disruptive to gameplay. You go in there, and you are not disrupted by the need to travel, or talk to people .. and you can focus on adventure and combat.

For some of us it DOES bother. Immersion IS important to more than you believe.

 

And that god awful "talking to people" , well some of us actually like to socialize in a mmorpg.

Shocking isnt it ?

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1437

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/10/13 12:49:03 PM#79


Originally posted by NaughtyP
For all the good instancing can do, it has done one thing to my MMO experience which I find unforgivable: breaking immersion. As soon as I'm in a copy of a world/dungeon, the experience deteriorates because of the lack of a persistant, singular world.

I would have to guess this doesn't bother other people as much as it bothers me because I find it very disruptive to gameplay.



Yes, undoubtedly, instancing breaks immersion.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/10/13 12:51:35 PM#80
Originally posted by Dahkoht
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by NaughtyP

For all the good instancing can do, it has done one thing to my MMO experience which I find unforgivable: breaking immersion. As soon as I'm in a copy of a world/dungeon, the experience deteriorates because of the lack of a persistant, singular world.

I would have to guess this doesn't bother other people as much as it bothers me because I find it very disruptive to gameplay.

Obvious it does not bother people. In fact, this "immerision" is not important to me at all. It is not like i don't know i am playing a game. When i play other games (like SP or even online games), it is not like i don't know there are millions others doing the same.

Fun is much more important. Given the popularity of LoL, WoT, D3 (all instanced) ... i bet it is not a huge issues for most gamers.

BTW, i think it is the opoosite. Instanced is much LESS disruptive to gameplay. You go in there, and you are not disrupted by the need to travel, or talk to people .. and you can focus on adventure and combat.

For some of us it DOES bother. Immersion IS important to more than you believe.

 

And that god awful "talking to people" , well some of us actually like to socialize in a mmorpg.

Shocking isnt it ?

Immersion is different depending on who you talk to, though. For you, it seems immersion is greatly affected by the loading screens and the separation from others. There seems to be a lot of people that feel that way. For others, immersion is greatly affected by having to compete with 20 other newbs for the same 5 rats, or by reaching the evil villain's lair at the end of a dungeon to find stalwart adventurers standing in line for their turn to kill him.

In most cases, there are pros and cons to immersion on both sides of the instancing fence.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

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